2009 Formula One Season

[Mosha]

Hand and knees? Never, it was just knees, my hand were in prayer mode.

[TBWG]

Hand and knees? Never, it was just knees, my hand were in prayer mode.

Tea money huh!

TBWG

[TBWG]

Well I'll stick my neck out and predict Hamilton win plus Rosberg and Alonso doing well I also expect Button to feature well towards the end with that heavy fuel load, however everything could go 'tits up' in the event of safety car and or Rain...not sure of weather but at the moment F1 site says it is dry.

TBWG

[wackysleet]

Well I'll stick my neck out and predict Hamilton win plus Rosberg and Alonso doing well I also expect Button to feature well towards the end with that heavy fuel load, however everything could go 'tits up' in the event of safety car and or Rain...not sure of weather but at the moment F1 site says it is dry.

TBWG

I think Jenson could do well but as you say the weather could change everything, if it rains and certain drivers are stopping more because of a light load then they may change tyres as well if needed so could save an extra pitstop. .

[soihok]

Well done Lewis and Jenson.

[TBWG]

Well I'll stick my neck out and predict Hamilton win plus Rosberg and Alonso doing well I also expect Button to feature well towards the end with that heavy fuel load, however everything could go 'tits up' in the event of safety car and or Rain...not sure of weather but at the moment F1 site says it is dry.

TBWG

Well not a bad prediction ... but where did Glock come from

However I feel for Nico.

Realistically Red Bull out of picture now and Jenson needs serious bad luck to throw the championship away... so it's on to Suzuka, does it rain a lot there?

TBWG

[TBWG]

2010 Seems to be falling into place!

Ferrari Massa & Alonso (a marriage made in hel_l) Mega Fernando strops when he isn't loved above all others by the Ferrari camp!

McLaren Hamilton & Kimi (the prodigal returns) Kimi should thrive in the clinical less emotional atmosphere and just get on with it with minimum fuss.

Brawn Jenson & Nico (marriage made in heaven) Both fairly straight forward guys who should gel well.

Red Bull, Lollo Rosso & Force India .......more of the same!

Williams Nico Hulkenberg & Rubens? A good mix of youth & experience

So that leaves BMW, Toyota & Renault No idea

Plus all the new teams ... if they appear!

TBWG

PS Who was the black <deleted> in the Jumbo white sun glasses in the pits at Singapore? What a pillock! Someone should tell him it is a night race!

[richard_smith237]

PS Who was the black <deleted> in the Jumbo white sun glasses in the pits at Singapore? What a pillock! Someone should tell him it is a night race!

'Black Eyed Peas' front man.... rumored to have musical links with the 'Pussy Cat Dolls', Lewis Hamilton's girlfriend.

[b19bry]

2010 Seems to be falling into place!

Ferrari Massa & Alonso (a marriage made in hel_l) Mega Fernando strops when he isn't loved above all others by the Ferrari camp!

Massa may have looked good against a lacklustre Kimi, I can't see him outscoring the class act that Alonso is over a season

McLaren Hamilton & Kimi (the prodigal returns) Kimi should thrive in the clinical less emotional atmosphere and just get on with it with minimum fuss.

The master politician that Lewis already is will wipe the floor over a Kimi who's only in it for the money by now.

Brawn Jenson & Nico (marriage made in heaven) Both fairly straight forward guys who should gel well.

Under Brawn Nico may finally find the consistency that has so far eluded him to show him as the great driver he has promised since arriving in F1

[Mosha]

Well I'll stick my neck out and predict Hamilton win plus Rosberg and Alonso doing well I also expect Button to feature well towards the end with that heavy fuel load, however everything could go 'tits up' in the event of safety car and or Rain...not sure of weather but at the moment F1 site says it is dry.

TBWG

Well not a bad prediction ... but where did Glock come from

However I feel for Nico.

Realistically Red Bull out of picture now and Jenson needs serious bad luck to throw the championship away... so it's on to Suzuka, does it rain a lot there?

TBWG

IIRC Suzaka is nowhere as bad as Fuji for the weather. I like a wet race as long as the safety car doesn't win.

[Mosha]

On the BBC Martin Brundle called Alonso "Teflonso"

[TBWG]

Hi

Well Button did not pull ahead of Rubens by 1 additional point at Singapore but 2!

For Rubens to beat Jenson he has to score 16 points because 15 would only bring him equal and Jenson would then win by way of more wins!

With only 3 races left in theory Rubens can only achieve 5 wins maximum.

What is it about Singapore that makes drivers want to trail 4 metres of fuel hose around the track? Ferrari last year, Lollo Rosso this year!

TBWG

[wackysleet]

On the BBC Martin Brundle called Alonso "Teflonso"

Mosha. I think it's fairly obvious what Brundle is implying but it's a pity he did'nt have the balls to come out and openly say it but then of course he would leave himself open to a possible lawsuit, but you remember the old saying, people in glasshouses should not throw stones, cast your mind back to 1984 when he drove for Tyrell who for a TECHNICAL INFRINGEMENT ie; not having sufficient weight to meet scrutineers at the end of the race filled up some tanks within the car to the tune of apprx 140 odd pounds of water and lead shot just before the end of the race, they were subsequently disqualified for the whole season and Brundles points taken away. Now I know what the rules stated and I'm also aware that all of the other teams were in fact running turbos and for there to be a rule change it needed a unamimous decision from all of the teams but for reasons best known to Tyrell {probably financial} they were not going with the flow hence the disqualification which then allowed the FIA to put the new regs in place. The infringement and subsequent punishment was very harsh and several of the so called infringements were later dismissed but never the less they were breaking the rules and Brundle must have known.

One other point about Brundle, his knowledge and expertise along with the interesting format he adopts is without doubt the best on tv but he should stick to that and not cast aspersions, as a driver he hardly covered himself in glory holding the dubious record of having started 158 GPs and never having won any, along with no pole positions or even fastest lap. .

[rixalex]

The infringement and subsequent punishment was very harsh and several of the so called infringements were later dismissed but never the less they were breaking the rules and Brundle must have known.

As always, enjoyed reading your above post Wacky. You have an impressive memory!

With regards to your comment - Brundle must have known - do you state that as a matter of high suspicion on your part, or a matter of fact? I guess it must be the former otherwise you would have stated - Brundle knew. Aren't you doing yourself exactly what you claim to be so against - making accusations based on assumptions and suspicions rather than hard evidence?

as a driver he hardly covered himself in glory holding the dubious record of having started 158 GPs and never having won any, along with no pole positions or even fastest lap. .

What Brundle did as a driver and what he is doing now i think are two separate things. I think Brundle himself would be the first to accept the limited success he enjoyed.

I don't think though that wheeling out his unimpressive racing stats when he happens to say something you don't like about one of your favourite drivers is a very clever riposte, with all due respect.

[wackysleet]

The infringement and subsequent punishment was very harsh and several of the so called infringements were later dismissed but never the less they were breaking the rules and Brundle must have known.

As always, enjoyed reading your above post Wacky. You have an impressive memory!

With regards to your comment - Brundle must have known - do you state that as a matter of high suspicion on your part, or a matter of fact? I guess it must be the former otherwise you would have stated - Brundle knew. Aren't you doing yourself exactly what you claim to be so against - making accusations based on assumptions and suspicions rather than hard evidence?

as a driver he hardly covered himself in glory holding the dubious record of having started 158 GPs and never having won any, along with no pole positions or even fastest lap. .

What Brundle did as a driver and what he is doing now i think are two separate things. I think Brundle himself would be the first to accept the limited success he enjoyed.

I don't think though that wheeling out his unimpressive racing stats when he happens to say something you don't like about one of your favourite drivers is a very clever riposte, with all due respect.

I think the bones of my statement concerning Brundle have got lost for you rixalex, the part of my post that you did'nt include in your quotes I believe make it quite clear that ANY driver sitting in his car whilst the pit crew are pumping in 10 stone plus of water and lead shot, which by the way other teams in the pit lane frequently had to sweep up would have known and of course the difference between Alonso's possible involvement and Brundles is that the Tyrell team were at it for the whole of the season, correction, best part of the season.

The reason I have had a pop at Brundle has absolutely nothing to do with my support of Alonso but more to do with people in a position that they believe gives them the right to make snide comments and of course you will be aware I'm sure of his derogatory remarks concerning "Pikey's" and his subsequent apology, he must be the only person in England who doesn't know what he meant. Just for the record I really do not like anyone in any position trying to get a cheap laugh at another persons expense, it just smacks of the old bully boy treatment. .

As I'm sure your aware I think cheating by anyone should be punished, and yes that includes Alonso.

[rixalex]

ANY driver sitting in his car whilst the pit crew are pumping in 10 stone plus of water and lead shot, <snipped> would have known

So what you are saying then is that Brundle knew? I was misled by your original wording "Brundle must have known", which is precisely the way people have been talking about Alonso and the incident in Singapore.

I don't know enough about the incident you describe with Brundle as it is a bit before my time so i bow to your better historical knowledge. If you are telling me that Brundle knew and that is a proven fact with evidence to back that up then fair enough, i believe you and accept that you are within your rights to accuse him of double standards.

The reason I have had a pop at Brundle has absolutely nothing to do with my support of Alonso but more to do with people in a position that they believe gives them the right to make snide comments

That bothers me more when the person for whom the snideness is directed has no right of reply. In the case of him calling people pikey's, the people were construction workers with no voice. That's not fair, although my own opinion is that it wasn't meant to be a personal attack on indivduals, more a comment on the state of the track repairs - anyway, i digress.

In the case of Alonso, he has a media platform from which he can make any announcement at a moment's notice and be guaranteed pretty much world-wide coverage. If someone has a pop at him he can either use that platform to defend himself, or he has all the lawyers and money in the world to take legal action against that person. So it's not something i lose sleep over myself.

I dare say even Alonso has made a few snide comments about certain teams and certain drivers to the media in the past.

Edited September 30, 2009 by rixalex

[wackysleet]

ANY driver sitting in his car whilst the pit crew are pumping in 10 stone plus of water and lead shot, <snipped> would have known

So what you are saying then is that Brundle knew? I was misled by your original wording "Brundle must have known", which is precisely the way people have been talking about Alonso and the incident in Singapore.

I don't know enough about the incident you describe with Brundle as it is a bit before my time so i bow to your better historical knowledge. If you are telling me that Brundle knew and that is a proven fact with evidence to back that up then fair enough, i believe you and accept that you are within your rights to accuse him of double standards.

The reason I have had a pop at Brundle has absolutely nothing to do with my support of Alonso but more to do with people in a position that they believe gives them the right to make snide comments

That bothers me more when the person for whom the snideness is directed has no right of reply. In the case of him calling people pikey's, the people were construction workers with no voice. That's not fair, although my own opinion is that it wasn't meant to be a personal attack on indivduals, more a comment on the state of the track repairs - anyway, i digress.

In the case of Alonso, he has a media platform from which he can make any announcement at a moment's notice and be guaranteed pretty much world-wide coverage. If someone has a pop at him he can either use that platform to defend himself, or he has all the lawyers and money in the world to take legal action against that person. So it's not something i lose sleep over myself.

I dare say even Alonso has made a few snide comments about certain teams and certain drivers to the media in the past.

rixalex, I actually stand by my original comment that he must have known, if in fact he was innocent then he unfairly had the seasons points disallowed.

my reluctance to openly accuse him of cheating is because of the ambiguity of the rules and different interpretations of them, similar to this years rules with Brawn etc;.

Except in this particular instance the rule in question was quite clear and he was party to it, if he did'nt understand the rules he should have questioned them at least the part that led to the seasons disqualification for the team and the points deducted, to which he did not appeal.

I would be very surprised if Alonso has never made a snide remark in fact I think it would be a very definite yes.

my opinion on whether Alonso should or should not answer the questions that some people have about his participation or not in the race fixing scam is that no one other than Piquet senior who made references to Alonso having known has accused him of anything, and no evidence has come to light, even the secret witness made no reference to him, likewise Briatorre and Symonds never indicated he was involved so really what can he say other than whats already be said, that he knew nothing, but perhaps the media frenzy would like to make more out of this than actually exists, but if there are skeletons in Alonso's cupboard then for sure they will come out.

[rixalex]

rixalex, I actually stand by my original comment that he must have known, if in fact he was innocent then he unfairly had the seasons points disallowed.

OK. So Brundle was punished. I thought what you were saying is that Brundle was previously involved in cheating (do we need to add allegedly?), but wasn't punished - and therefore for him to level a similar accusation at Alonso as he did by using the term Teflonso, was hypocritical.

even the secret witness made no reference to him,

Maybe because, as you yourself have previously speculated, he himself was the secret witness.

if there are skeletons in Alonso's cupboard then for sure they will come out.

Unless the skeletons (should they exist), come out fairly soon, it'll probably means he gets away with anything he might have done wrong.

If for example, in six or seven years time when Alonso's career is winding down / over, new evidence comes to light that shows his involvement, it'll be too late to give any sort of meaningful punishment. Punishment has to come whilst a driver still has a career in the sport for it to hurt them.

Like when Schumacher robbed Hill of the title (sorry for returning to my hobby-horse!), the time to punish him was right then. Doing anything about it now might give Hill, myself and a few others some satisfaction, but he probably wouldn't be too bothered.

At the time it happened, Schumacher was too big and powerful to be acted against. Nobody could stand up to him. He was protected. Maybe now Alonso also enjoys a degree of protection - not to the extent of Schumacher i would say, but there could be an element of that going on.

[wackysleet]

rixalex, I actually stand by my original comment that he must have known, if in fact he was innocent then he unfairly had the seasons points disallowed.

OK. So Brundle was punished. I thought what you were saying is that Brundle was previously involved in cheating (do we need to add allegedly?), but wasn't punished - and therefore for him to level a similar accusation at Alonso as he did by using the term Teflonso, was hypocritical.

even the secret witness made no reference to him,

Maybe because, as you yourself have previously speculated, he himself was the secret witness.

if there are skeletons in Alonso's cupboard then for sure they will come out.

Unless the skeletons (should they exist), come out fairly soon, it'll probably means he gets away with anything he might have done wrong.

If for example, in six or seven years time when Alonso's career is winding down / over, new evidence comes to light that shows his involvement, it'll be too late to give any sort of meaningful punishment. Punishment has to come whilst a driver still has a career in the sport for it to hurt them.

Like when Schumacher robbed Hill of the title (sorry for returning to my hobby-horse!), the time to punish him was right then. Doing anything about it now might give Hill, myself and a few others some satisfaction, but he probably wouldn't be too bothered.

At the time it happened, Schumacher was too big and powerful to be acted against. Nobody could stand up to him. He was protected. Maybe now Alonso also enjoys a degree of protection - not to the extent of Schumacher i would say, but there could be an element of that going on.

Believe me no one could have been so angry by that cheating Shumacher against Damian as me and I still hate him.

Yes, I did say the witness may have been Alonso but I'm pretty sure that I have read somewhere since that it was a backroom boy, but could be mistaken. Your right, there may or may not be skeletons in the cupboard and if there is the slightest bit of evidence it should be investigated but I don't think if any came to light now that the FIA would want to persue it as it's probably a case of "let sleeping dogs lie" and least said soonest mended, your right again in as much as probably all the top drivers/crowd pullers have a favourable position within FIA.

[TBWG]

Yes, I did say the witness may have been Alonso but I'm pretty sure that I have read somewhere since that it was a backroom boy, but could be mistaken. Your right, there may or may not be skeletons in the cupboard and if there is the slightest bit of evidence it should be investigated but I don't think if any came to light now that the FIA would want to persue it as it's probably a case of "let sleeping dogs lie" and least said soonest mended, your right again in as much as probably all the top drivers/crowd pullers have a favourable position within FIA.

Hey guys

Cor ~~~ you two really like to get into the nitty gritty of these things, myself my memory is shot and I'm much to lazy to research it !

I read somewhere that witness X is in fact Alan Permane.

Looking forward to Suzuka but currently being in UK means i have to get up at 2.00am to watch practice

TBWG

[rixalex]

myself my memory is shot and I'm much to lazy to research it !

How terribly lackadaisical of you!

[wackysleet]

Hey guys

Cor ~~~ you two really like to get into the nitty gritty of these things, myself my memory is shot and I'm much to lazy to research it !

I read somewhere that witness X is in fact Alan Permane.

Looking forward to Suzuka but currently being in UK means i have to get up at 2.00am to watch practice

TBWG

Of course we do, have you tried watching thai tv, in my house someone is always watching it, it's bloody rubbish, fifty years out of date and always about a little fat bald homosexual and not in the least funny. .

[rixalex]

Of course we do, have you tried watching thai tv, in my house someone is always watching it, it's bloody rubbish, fifty years out of date and always about a little fat bald homosexual and not in the least funny.

Know what you mean mate, but in fairness i would imagine that your fellow house dwellers probably have an equally dim view of the two hours they see you "wasting" every fortnight, watching a handful of cars whizz around a track 50 or 60 times!

[TBWG]

Hey guys

Cor ~~~ you two really like to get into the nitty gritty of these things, myself my memory is shot and I'm much to lazy to research it !

I read somewhere that witness X is in fact Alan Permane.

Looking forward to Suzuka but currently being in UK means i have to get up at 2.00am to watch practice

TBWG

Of course we do, have you tried watching thai tv, in my house someone is always watching it, it's bloody rubbish, fifty years out of date and always about a little fat bald homosexual and not in the least funny. .

You mean you don't like all those boinnng!! and kazoo type noises that punctuate the sitcom every 15 seconds! you also forgot to mention that there is always someone carrying a gun!

Yes, the boss lady can't stand those noisy cars! But nobody's perfect!

TBWG

[MJo]

Now it's official. Ferrari has announced that Alonso will drive for them next season with Massa.

Strange ways, did not know Ferrari was that sort of money and pay millions to one if not fastest drivers for driving against them and same time pay Alonso 25M per year.

Edit: I mean just to get the money from Santander...

Edited September 30, 2009 by MJo

[TBWG]

Now it's official. Ferrari has announced that Alonso will drive for them next season with Massa.

Strange ways, did not know Ferrari was that sort of money and pay millions to one if not fastest drivers for driving against them and same time pay Alonso 25M per year.

Edit: I mean just to get the money from Santander...

So much for trying to reduce F1 cost's

TBWG

[MJo]

Wonder how long it takes until Kimi's move to McLaren is announced.

And what Hamilton has to say after that. Kimi for sure will demand and get the same service than Lewis. Will be totally different ball game than with Kovi who is not in the position to demand the same.

If this happens i can hardly wait next season. To see two world champions in same team with same equipment and same service from the team. Will be interesting to see who will be faster.

[MJo]

Nico Rosberg is also rumored to be in McLarens list. He is fast as well, one of the best but yet to prove himself in fast car. But latest reports suggest that Nico will go to Brawn and Rubens will swap with him to Williams. Providing Brawn can get an agreement with Button who is reportedly asking too much money from Brawn...

In any case interesting moves for first time in few years. I would expect all pcs to fall in their places in next month or so...

[MJo]

Now it's official. Ferrari has announced that Alonso will drive for them next season with Massa.

Strange ways, did not know Ferrari was that sort of money and pay millions to one if not fastest drivers for driving against them and same time pay Alonso 25M per year.

Edit: I mean just to get the money from Santander...

So much for trying to reduce F1 cost's

TBWG

Someone might ask some questions if Kimi is driving loops around them next season. Especially those 7000+ tifosi's who signed online petition against the move

However i would expect them to be back up front next year as they stopped present car development to Hungary and have been busy with next years car few months already. Trying to do "Brawn" and get head start with next year's car...

[rixalex]

Kimi for sure will demand and get the same service than Lewis.

There are some who might contest that. There are some who would say if Alonso couldn't demand it, how will Kimi?

I'm not one of those. I believe that initially Alonso was given completely equal treatment. It was only after it became obvious that Alonso would be changing teams that the team swung behind Lewis.

So i agree with you that Kimi will be treated equally if he does go to McClaren.

Will he be fast? Well Kimi has shown that he is doing a great job in qualifying by completely outpacing both Badoer and Fisi. Badoer not such a surprise but i think more was expected of Fisi.

In the race though, as we saw in Singapore, Kimi remains an inconsistent driver. When the chips are down and when he's not running up front he just lacks motivation to push.

He's also a driver in the twilight of his career.

For these reasons, it's not a great signing for McClaren in my opinion. They should be going for up and coming talent. Why not make a swoop for Vettel? He's surely proven himself as the thing of the future. People talk about him being a future Ferrari driver, but why not McClaren? He might actually be someone who can give Lewis a run for his money.