Report - Rainman's 3rd Annual Non-immigrant Marriage Visa Renewal

[rainman]

As you may have seen from my information-gathering posts in the last few weeks on this forum, it was once again time for my annual marriage visa renewal. It's my 3rd one now, so I hope my report here will help others.

Background:

On my 3rd renewal, and with the 400k in the bank option back, I thought I would go well prepared and bring enough documentation of both the 400k in the bank and the 40k+ monthly income.

The 400k have been in the bank exactly 2 months on my application date. I brought the bank book to document this in addition to the bank letter. I also brought, for the 40k+ per month income, the income letter from a company in the US where I'm employed for years and also a 50% shareholder (through which I get my monthly income). I also brought an affidavit of income with the signature witnessed by the Swiss Embassy along with all the usual documents like passport, wife's passport and ID card, Tabien Baan, bank book copies of every page, etc.

My 3rd Renewal

In my past 2 extensions, I would go around 10am and usually not get out of Immigration in Suan Phlu until around 3pm. So I thought I'll give it a try and go very early instead this time. I was there at 8:10am, got my number and waited until around 9:05am until my number was called my a friendly looking female officer.

My wife and I went over to her desk and explained to her that I am here for my 3rd marriage visa extension. She asked me how I would like to apply and I responded with the 400k in the bank option. I then presented her with the original bank book as well as all the copies. The officer then responded with "sorry, but the money is not in the bank long enough". I asked her if she meant that it is supposed to be 60 days or 2 months and she responded that it would need to be in the bank for at least 3 months.

Waaaaaait a moment. Red lights going up everywhere here. I thought the new Immigration order stated that it would need to be in the bank for 2 months? I pointed this out to her and she still claimed that it was 3 months. In addition, she also said that last year it was 2 months and this year it was 3 months. I then asked her to show me the document where it stated that and she said that she didn't have it. But I did. Since I printed a copy, to be safe, the evening before. I showed it to her, the latest police order, stating clearly that it needed to be in the bank for 2 months. She said that she had never seen this document before and that it was not issued by Immigration (even though it is).

I was almost ready to have her ask her boss and see what he had to say, but I decided to leave it at that and told her that I'll just apply with the 40k+ monthly income option. So she asked me to present her the documents for that. To my surprise, she did not want to see the affidavit of income with the signature witnessed by the Swiss Embassy, saying she didn't need it. She only wanted to see the income letter issued by my company and the Thai translation. Immediately she handed it back to me and said that it wasn't possible for me to apply for the extension with this letter. No further information. Again I asked her why and she said that it was because the company was in the United States and I was a Swiss citizen. The company would need to be in Switzerland for me to apply for the extension based on the income.

That was news to me. Why would it matter from what country the income is coming from, as long as you're receiving the income? I know of at least one of my neighbours, who is from the UK, who has a marriage visa based on the income he gets from working in Dubai every few months. How did he get the extension then? And ...how did I get my extension last year then based on the same letter from the same US company?

I pointed out to her that I had my last extension last year done with the same income from the same US company. She said that it was impossible and went into the documents room to get my file (she didn't even get my file before that). It took her 20 minutes to come back. I don't know if my file was the last one buried under everyone else's or what, but whatever. She looked at the file for a few seconds and then said she needed to check with her boss and left again. We waited for another 15 minutes (no joking), so in total 35 minutes sitting at the desk with no officer. The desk in front and behind us processed the applications of 2 and 3 couples each before the officer came back. I actually wished I would have gotten the ticket number before or after, but it was too late.

She came back and said that they must have made a mistake last year and allowed my application, so they will make an exception this year ....but next year I would need to show an income letter from a Swiss company in order to receive my extension next year as she would only make an exception this year. That seems absolutely ridiculous to me as I applied last year with the income letter from the US company without any problems or questions asked. I have no idea what I'm supposed to do next year, but my guess is that only this officer has this rule that you need the income from your own country. I never heard it in the last 2 years of my extensions.

Anyways, she took all the documents and again note ...left out the letter from the Embassy confirming my signature on the income statement (which is what it says in the police order is needed) and gave it back to me. She then asked if I brought the marriage photos. I said yes and handed 3 photos to her. I was surprised she asked about them, because I had already provided them 2 years ago on my first extension and again last year, when they were handed back to me.

She opened the file and said that they were unacceptable, because they were the same photos I provided on my 1st extension. Well yes, of course, it's the same wedding. I then told her what photos she needed then and she said different photos from the same wedding ...and that I needed to bring at least 3 new marriage photos AND 3 new photos of us together at home every year for the application to be accepted.

So what happens when I used up all the photos that were taken at the wedding? No more extension? I said alright, I'll bring her the photos sometime next week, which she agreed to. But she said again that if I didn't bring the new photos before the 1 month when I need to pick up the 11 month (which totals to 12 months) stamp, my application would be denied.

To sum it up, I got my 1 month extension stamp and will need to return next month to get my other 11 months.

In the end, I don't know if the rules completely changed on the day I went for my extension or if the officer just had a really bad day ..or just really had no idea of the actual extension rules of this year.

Why is it that my visa extensions always seem like hel_l? I don't know. I wish I could write a good report for one year but it seems impossible. On a good note, at least I'm always able to report that I in the end did get the extension and will get a chance to battle for another extension next year.

[rixalex]

It's sad that we have to place ourselves into the hands of people like this, who on a whim could completely turn our lives upside down.

[satiariyan]

Shame on Thailand's totally unreliable immigration authorities!

[Maestro]

...She came back and said that they must have made a mistake last year and allowed my application, so they will make an exception this year ....but next year I would need to show an income letter from a Swiss company in order to receive my extension next year as she would only make an exception this year...

She opened the file and said that they were unacceptable, because they were the same photos I provided on my 1st extension. Well yes, of course, it's the same wedding. I then told her what photos she needed then and she said different photos from the same wedding ...and that I needed to bring at least 3 new marriage photos AND 3 new photos of us together at home every year for the application to be accepted...

These two statements were the officer’s attempts at saving face after she found out that she was wrong.

You could have made her lose even more face if you had asked for a superior officer when she insisted that the money for the marriage extension had to be seasoned for three months.

Tough luck that you happened to get assigned to this incompetent officer.

--

Maestro

[rainman]

Shame on Thailand's totally unreliable immigration authorities!

You have no idea how much I want to come here one year and write "I went in, presented my documents, they were accepted and I got my annual visa stamp". I'm thinking that the main problem is that the Immigration officers are never actually updated on the new rules, they just "find out" from other officers. Like last year, when the officer I had then claimed that the 40k+ monthly income rule didn't actually exist. Only then too when she asked another officer she actually found out about it.

What I forgot to mention in my above report is that during the entire process, in every free moment, the officer tried to get my wife to visit her new shop that she just opened last week. Even to the couple that was sitting on the desk besides us, she reached over and gave her the business card with the map on the back to her new shop. I wish she would have known the actual Immigration rules as she preached about her shop.

But really, I really want to come back one year and say it all went fast and smooth. Not this year, but there's always next year. For now at least, I survived for another year, I hope.

[GuyDow]

I was almost ready to have her ask her boss and see what he had to say, but I decided to leave it at that and told her that I'll just apply with the 40k+ monthly income option.

Did it occur to you to say "whoops, sorry!" and leave at that point. Then come back in the afternoon or next day and try another desk?

Not sure if this would work, maybe she'd spot you and rat you out. Just interested to hear other opinions on this one since there are usually 3 or 4 desks working at Suan Phlu and you'd be unlucky to draw the same officer twice.

Apart from that, the entire episode is a disgrace to the Immigration Department. Suan Phlu is the one place they should be able to get it right.

[NanLaew]

Right now, I am benefiting from a Thai company writing a cover letter to support my 1-year Business visa applications as I do several days work each month for their Thai operations as a consultant. I am married with a son and living here and I am dreading the day I have to apply for the visa-by-marriage immigration incompetence lottery and have to jump through these hoops.

They actually need to see wedding pictures? We registered our marriage at the local Amphur but haven't bothered with any additional ceremony and have no plans to either. I didn't take any pictures at the Amphur office either but isn't sighting the original wedding certificate and getting a scanned & signed copy of same enough? But photographs? Really?

I can also see a problem with any income letter as the bulk of my work is outside Thailand through an non-UK agency and I am a Brit.

I have residences in Pattaya and Udon Thani so I would hope that the Jomtien and Nong Khai immigration people would be less ignorant but having lived here a fair bit, I know that will be a stretch.

Edited March 22, 2009 by NanLaew

[Neeranam]

Learn to smile when you walk in. I was there the other day and how depressing it must be working there with all the sad, worried faces.

I usually bring my kids, always cheers them up.

[rainman]

Learn to smile when you walk in. I was there the other day and how depressing it must be working there with all the sad, worried faces.

I usually bring my kids, always cheers them up.

I'm a quite friendly person and I did walk in with a smile and both my wife and I greeted her nicely believe me. Unfortunately my visa expired on the 23rd so the 20th was the last possible date without leaving it to the 23rd. From my last 3 years of experience, I have to say that the officers simply never get updated on the rules. And I was surprised that she didn't only want marriage photos again but actually NEW ones.

[BangnaBound]

I was almost ready to have her ask her boss and see what he had to say, but I decided to leave it at that and told her that I'll just apply with the 40k+ monthly income option.

Did it occur to you to say "whoops, sorry!" and leave at that point. Then come back in the afternoon or next day and try another desk?

Not sure if this would work, maybe she'd spot you and rat you out. Just interested to hear other opinions on this one since there are usually 3 or 4 desks working at Suan Phlu and you'd be unlucky to draw the same officer twice.

Apart from that, the entire episode is a disgrace to the Immigration Department. Suan Phlu is the one place they should be able to get it right.

I agree with this as it has actually happened to me. Every year is a different problem, and generally takes at least two attempts with the wife plus another follow up with some extra documents. Every officer has there own interpretation of the rules with they are “positive” are the one and only way. I have had my documents rejected one week, and then accepted the next, without making one change to my documentation. Just make sure that you don’t get the same officer. In fact, you could probably go back the next week. The picture thing is a perfect example, out of 4 extensions I’ve only been asked twice. And I’ve never shown wedding photos, I’ve only been asked for current ones. The times they didn’t ask, I offered them but they said that they didn’t need them, and they didn’t even look.

[Time Traveller]

Hi Rainman,

I experienced a similiar situation for family extension also. In my case they didn't want to accept the income option (even with Thai tax receipts) because I did not have a work permit. The crazy thing is that they accepted them every year before this year!

I tried to explain to 2 different officers on seperate days that my income does not come from working, but it comes from investments and rental. To no avail, they informed me the only option was 400k bank deposit, not even letter from embassy would be accepted because that is only for retired people with overseas pension. I couldn't bother asking to speak with their commander or explain further so just gave into the bank deposit.

But this frustrates many people because the officers can not be trusted to interpret the regulations in a consistent way. They also presented a document to me that was different from the police regulations on this site. Basically saying for the income option work permit is required. This had no date on it so I can't be sure if it's new or old rule

[stevehaigh]

She opened the file and said that they were unacceptable, because they were the same photos I provided on my 1st extension. Well yes, of course, it's the same wedding. I then told her what photos she needed then and she said different photos from the same wedding ...and that I needed to bring at least 3 new marriage photos AND 3 new photos of us together at home every year for the application to be accepted.

that's just outrageous, even for Thai immigration. i don't even have pics of my wedding, went to the amphur, 10 baht and we were done!

by the way, nice looking wife in the avatar.

Edited March 22, 2009 by stevehaigh

[abdulrahman]

Learn to smile when you walk in. I was there the other day and how depressing it must be working there with all the sad, worried faces.

I usually bring my kids, always cheers them up.

I'm a quite friendly person and I did walk in with a smile and both my wife and I greeted her nicely believe me. Unfortunately my visa expired on the 23rd so the 20th was the last possible date without leaving it to the 23rd. From my last 3 years of experience, I have to say that the officers simply never get updated on the rules. And I was surprised that she didn't only want marriage photos again but actually NEW ones.

Well,if they were not incompetent,they would see a lot less sad,worry faces.For many the annual trip to Immigration is a bloody nightmare!

Although I must be lucky,the only thing they never requested were photos!Not that we have any!

[Moonrakers]

I got an extension based on marriage just a couple of weeks ago. The only photo's that we gave are recent one's taken of my wife, daughter and I. I passed without any problems.

[JimmyTheMook]

I have done the extension based on marriage for the 4th time this year and deal with the same incompetent stupid idiots as noted in the OP, unfortunately this is an open window for us farangs to see the heart of Thailands incompetence.

[SoiGirlHunter]

I think i will stay on multi-entry visas after reading that

[Tod Daniels]

It is sad the individual officers at Immigrations have SO much latitude to interpret the rules as they comprehend or understand them, instead of actually reading what is written.

I am sorry for your problems, but concur with other posters, perhaps another trip to Immigrations may give you another officer who is more "flexible" in their interpretation and/or understanding of the actual Police Orders.

The demands she made upon you for 'new' pictures of your wedding as well as negating your wage affidavit is just too mind wobbling to even comment on.

I will immediately go out and kiss the ground in thanx because my very first yearly extension of stay based on retirement was approved in 40 minutes..

Good luck; let everyone know how this plays out. ...

[samran]

Had a similar problems with our house photos.

She had a go at us for saying that my wife and I we weren't in the photo's of our bedroom, and front of the house.

I told her, last year, we didn't have to be in all of the photo's. She replied, that can't be right, but she 'let us off' for this year.

Lo and behold, guess what, she opened up the file and last year, we weren't in most of the photo's.

Re: going back to get your visa stamped in for 11 months. Go EARLY. I went back to pick up my wifes visa extension thinking it was a formality. Boy was I wrong. Three hour wait, after which they picked up the file from the stack they placed it exactly one month before, and then began processing it there. From one desk to the next it went before I was finally called.

You'd think they'd use the one month to catch up on paperwork and authorise the exentsion before you return, but it doesn't happen.

[rainman]

My problem this year was that I had planned on doing the extension with the 400k in the bank. I always have my 40k+ monthly income as a backup, so I got the documentation for that together as well, just in case, which turned out to be a good thing this year.

The problem with the 400k was that, as some of you may have read in my earlier post, I did put it in the bank 3 months before, but my credit card company withdrew around 180,000 from the wrong account (I used that account for my credit card before). They returned it 2 days later, but the 3 months ended up being 'interrupted' for those 2 days. It was still on the bank for 2 months as required by Immigration rules, so that shouldn't have even been an issue.

With the photos, I brought an album of about 100 photos to Immigration on my 1st extension 2 years ago, of which they selected I think 3 or 5. They also chose 4 photos of my wife and me in and around the house the same year. Last year, for my 2nd extension, I again brought all the photos, including new ones in and around the house and they were returned to me saying they wouldn't need any more photos, that they had enough on file. Now suddenly this year, they want new photos again. Not just new photos, but only marriage photos. It seems a little silly since they already have photos of my wife and me in wedding clothes, photos of the actual ceremony, family photos of me and her family and of my family, etc.

Now they want new/previously unseen photos. I have no idea why. If they need new wedding photos every year, one day I will run out of new wedding photos and then what? Get married again? I know that won't happen as they will likely come up with new rules before I run out of wedding photos, but still.

I don't like to leave money in the bank here. I have most of my money in overseas bank accounts and safe deposit boxes. Most of the money I have in Thailand is in a safe deposit box, too, but I'm thinking of leaving the 400k in there until next year. I wonder if by then they will reject my 4th application because the 400k have been in the bank for too long.

[JimGant]

If they need new wedding photos every year, one day I will run out of new wedding photos and then what?

Adobe Photoshop

[huski]

If they need new wedding photos every year, one day I will run out of new wedding photos and then what?

Adobe Photoshop

[fred2007]

I think i will stay on multi-entry visas after reading that

And how many can you get? Just a straight forward question to all who are in the know.

How many timy times can I go outsite the country apply for a multiple non O? 2 times 3 times

or is there a limit to it ? Because I am getting p off with that system.

[sbk]

Wow. Thank god for my guy at Samui Immigration is all I can say. I know there have been complaints about this office, but I have been doing my extensions there for years and he just whips out my (second) file, whips through the stuff, all in all, takes about half an hour. Come back in a month, stamp in passport, see you next year! No photos, no hassles.

[Maestro]

I remember the post where a member said the immigration officer wanted newer wedding photos, not those taken over ten years ago, and suggested he should have another wedding party to take new pictures.

--

Maestro

[GarryP]

They have wanted photos of all the main rooms in my house and one of the front for the past 5 years. They refuse to accept previously submitted photos, despite the fact that I have been living in the same house for the past 8 years. They always say they want up to date photos. Last year was the kicker when they demanded that my wife and son be included in all pictures. Apart from that, though, I have had no problems and it is usually a breeze through immigration. Been extending my visa based on marriage for the past twenty years or so, so maybe that has something to do with it.

[ignis]

I think i will stay on multi-entry visas after reading that

And how many can you get? Just a straight forward question to all who are in the know.

How many timy times can I go outsite the country apply for a multiple non O? 2 times 3 times

or is there a limit to it ? Because I am getting p off with that system.

Think there is NO limit, friend has been here 11 years, and always goes out to get a new multiple non O every 15 months.

[David H]

I think i will stay on multi-entry visas after reading that

And how many can you get? Just a straight forward question to all who are in the know.

How many timy times can I go outsite the country apply for a multiple non O? 2 times 3 times

or is there a limit to it ? Because I am getting p off with that system.

Think there is NO limit, friend has been here 11 years, and always goes out to get a new multiple non O every 15 months.

Where does he go to do this? Cambodia or back to his home country?

[David H]

I think i will stay on multi-entry visas after reading that

And how many can you get? Just a straight forward question to all who are in the know.

How many timy times can I go outsite the country apply for a multiple non O? 2 times 3 times

or is there a limit to it ? Because I am getting p off with that system.

Think there is NO limit, friend has been here 11 years, and always goes out to get a new multiple non O every 15 months.

Where does he go to do this? Cambodia or back to his home country?

Rainman , care to comment on this?

[Lite Beer]

Where does he go to do this? Cambodia or back to his home country?

Rainman , care to comment on this?

Providing you find a Consulate that will issue one. There is no limit as to how many.

KL seems to be the best bet locally. After that Australia , then your own country.

[ignis]

Where does he go to do this? Cambodia or back to his home country?

Mostly goes to Croatia on holiday but has been to KL