One-two-go Blacklisted By The Ec

[LostBro]

EU Bans Thai, Ukraine, Kazakhstan, Benin Airlines From EU

BRUSSELS (Dow Jones)--The European Commission banned airlines from Thailand, Ukraine, Kazakhstan and Benin from flying to the European Union because of safety concerns, it said Wednesday.

The commission, the E.U.'s executive body, has added Thailand's One Two Go Airlines, all airlines from Benin, six carriers from Kazakhstan and Ukraine's Motor Sich Airlines to its blacklist of airlines not allowed to fly to the bloc, it said in a statement.

The commission regularly publishes a list of passenger and cargo airlines which are banned from flying to its 27 member countries because they aren't considered safe enough.

Air Company Kokshetau, ATMA Airlines, Berkut Air, East Wing, Sayat Air and Starline KZ are the Kazakhstan carriers banned Wednesday.

---

The only other countries with airlines on the EC list are: Kazakhstan, Korea, Sudan, Afghanistan, Cambodia, Ukraine, Angola, Benin, Congo, Equatorial Guinea, Indonesia, Kyrgyz, Liberia, Gabon, Sierra Leone, and Swaziland.

Recent_EC_Blacklist.pdf

[think_too_mut]

The commission, the E.U.'s executive body, has added Thailand's One Two Go Airlines

When did 1-2 -Go reach Europe?

It mainly caters for poverty packers in Thailand.

[Rinrada]

Got them back from the Mai the other day and apart from the plane looking a bit like an old Russian bomber and the pilot the spitting image of Biggles ...it was fine.

Hot cup of coffee plus a norri rice cake with a pleasant smile .....no complaints

[Electra]

Reading their web site blurb wankspeak, safety is " their core business and personal value ". So, they're alright then and the EU are wrong.

[BigSnake]

Hmmmmm!! Safety Issues could and should be a major concern to all Countries :

[andy1308]

I guess this also has insurance implications too for anyone from the EU who opts to fly on One-Two-Go ?

[briley]

Interesting that Garuda are on the list of banned airlines.

[GungaDin]

A justifiable black eye for the Thai & Indonesian CAA or whatever it's called.

ALL Indon airlines are banned if I read that list correctly.

1-2-Go...... fly at your peril! Nothing has changed.

[MJo]

Interesting that Garuda are on the list of banned airlines.

Their safety record is extremely bad although bit better than other Indonesian carriers. One of the main problems in Indonesia is that government regulation etc is lacking on the safety side. That i believe is the main reason for EU to ban all Indonesian carriers. Even if they comply on safety standards set by the government it not considered to be enough by EU.

[CFIT]

Orient- Thai is also owned by 1-2 Go Udom Tantiprasongchai (the CEO) and was also grounded for safety issues. forged pilot log books , lack of emergency training, lack of manuals, etc ... Let's see that airline blacklisted too..

http://www.investigateudom.com/

and www.DontFlyThai.Com has a lot of info on how Thai DCA is culpable for the Phuket crash, too.

No one has been held accountable even though One-Two Go was grounded for safety issues directly pertaining to the Phuket crash.

90 people died .

[Jimjim]

No complaints? Yes, when you're one of those who isn't in a plane crash you'll have no complaints. Odds are even if you fly an airline with the worst safety record you're more likely to reach your destination with "no complaints" than crash and burn.

[CFIT]

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2009/...ose-banned.html

".... it has also added to the list Thai operator One-Two-Go - subjected to a grounding order and close scrutiny following a fatal Boeing MD-82 crash in 2007.."

Both One-Two Go and Orient Thai were grounded for falsified pilot logs, falsified pilot check rides, failure to train for emergencies, failure to provide proper manuals, etc., etc.. All of this pertains to the September 2007 crash in Phuket

WHY HAS NO ONE BEEN HELD ACCOUNTABLE?

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/11/13...ss_30088326.phpAll eight MD-80 Series aircraft were grounded for defects when seven pilots of One-Two-Go were suspended.

Orient Thai's training did not follow the manual, and the airline submitted false documentation for the pilots' efficiency tests, the regulator said.

One-Two-Go's safety standards first came into focus when its plane crashed in Phuket last year. Lawyers for the British and US families of the 90 victims are seeking Bt8.32 billion in compensation in US courts in a case that may shed a harsh light on the cost-cutting and safety standards of some low-cost airlines.

Maybe that explains why no one was flying the plane for 15 seconds according to this US NTSB leaked report ( Thailand has delayed the report repeatedly ..)

The Black Box data tells us Arief was not a factor in the landing. In fact, he is not heard from at all once the decision is made to land. Montri didn't have the skills to manage the landing and plane was buffeted by the winds. Montri announced his intention to abort the landing but then failed to properly configure the aircraft for a go-around. Suddenly, the aircraft had no thrust. Montri panicked and tried to relinquish control of the aircraft to Arief ("You have control"), who did not respond. For 15 of the final 19 seconds of flight — an eternity in aviation — no one was flying the aircraft. 4 seconds before impact with an embankment, someone, we don't know who, applied the throttle. It was too late. Throttles require 7-9 seconds to spool up. The aircraft slammed into the embankment.

http://investigateudom.com/files/blackbox.pdf

One small step toward safer skies. Now... on to Orient-Thai, sister company..

Indict, prosecute, convict and punish to the fullest extent of the law, Udom Tantiprasongchai, CEO of 1-2 Go and Orient-Thai-for the deaths of 90 people on Flight 269 at Phuket Airport on September 16 2007

Indict, prosecute, convict and punish to the fullest extent of the law , officials of Thai DCA that allowed, through failure to properly regulate the airline- the crash to happen.

See www.InvestigateUdom.com http://www.investigateudom.com/

for evidence and information .

See http://www.dontflythai.com./ for more info on other Thai airlines and Thai DCA failure to regulate.

Full text of article ;

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2009/...ose-banned.html

...Six Kazakh operators along with Thailand's One-Two-Go and Ukrainian carrier Motor-Sich Airlines are among those being formally banned from European Union operations, following an update to the EU's 'blacklist'.

The update also extends a blanket ban to another African country, Benin, bringing the number of totally-excluded states to nine.

In a statement the European Commission identifies the six prohibited Kazakh operators as Berkut Air, Starline KZ, Sayat Air, Air Company Kokshetau, East Wing and ATMA.

These carriers primarily operate a range of Soviet-era aircraft including Ilyushin Il-62s, Il-76s and Tupolev Tu-154s.

But it has also added to the list Thai operator One-Two-Go - subjected to a grounding order and close scrutiny following a fatal Boeing MD-82 crash in 2007 - and Ukraine's Motor-Sich Airlines, the carrier affiliated with the engine manufacturer of the same name.

Motor-Sich Airlines' fleet has several Soviet-built types but also includes the Antonov An-140, making it one of the few carriers to operate the relatively modern turboprop.

Several other Ukrainian airlines already appear on the blacklist, which was last updated in November 2008.

"We will continue to actively pursue a dialogue with everyone involved in aviation to ensure that all aircraft and air carriers conform to internationally required levels of air safety," says European transport commissioner Antonio Tajani.

Benin is the latest state to receive a blanket ban on all airlines. The Commission says this follows the "negative results" of an ICAO audit.

While Angola and Indonesia have made good progress to improve safety, the states are yet to be dropped from the blacklist. The other six countries with a blanket ban comprise Kyrgyzstan, Liberia, Equatorial Guinea, Sierra Leone, Swaziland and the Democratic Republic of Congo.

Gabon is also virtually excluded by the blacklist because only a small number of aircraft belonging to two carriers meet European approval.

Edited April 9, 2009 by CFIT

[Boater]

same fate as phuket air then .....

so does this mean they will also ban Thai Air????

[Jimjim]

Think this is the same as in the travel forum, already.

Where does it say they'd ban Thai Air? Orient Thai is the owner of one-two go but that's not the same as Thai Airways.

[samui04]

Orient- Thai is also owned by 1-2 Go Udom Tantiprasongchai (the CEO) and was also grounded for safety issues. forged pilot log books , lack of emergency training, lack of manuals, etc ... Let's see that airline blacklisted too..

http://www.investigateudom.com/

and www.DontFlyThai.Com has a lot of info on how Thai DCA is culpable for the Phuket crash, too.

No one has been held accountable even though One-Two Go was grounded for safety issues directly pertaining to the Phuket crash.

90 people died .

MD 80/81 are very difficult to fly with bad wheather, last week another one from FedEx crashed in japan, pilots dead.

With any Airbus the pilots in Phuket would have landed ok.

Md 80/81 should be demolished...and i just remember that BKK Airways, the boutique airline, is flying some of them with Siam Rep logo.....Hope no wind when i live Samui....

[CFIT]

Where does it say they'd ban Thai Air? Orient Thai is the owner of one-two go but that's not the same as Thai Airways.

Thai Airways International is not the only Thai airline, you're drawing the inference-

"..Bans Thai airline 1-2 Go.." as the same as; Bans Thai Airways airline.

1- 2 Go is a Thai airline and Orient Thai owns it and they were grounded too for same reasons as 1-2 Go, so OT should also be banned . Orient- Thai HAD a UN Charter contract ... no more though .

Incidentally Thai Airways, Intrnl. was trawling for a president in the Bangkok Post for a couple of months. Not very comforting to know no one wanted the job. I can understand as a public Co they may have had to advertise but in an English language paper AND they extended the deadline to apply.

I wouldn't fly on ANY Thai regulated airline, the DCA just doesn't do its job

Edited April 9, 2009 by CFIT

[Prajak]

Seam R is also blacklisted, the Cambodian company...

[CFIT]

Seam R is also blacklisted, the Cambodian company...

and owned by Bangkok Air .....

I was boarding a flight in Pattaya and they actually allowed passengers to smoke on the tarmac right next to the pane with a fuel truck present . My letter to the Airline was never ackowledged

And MD 80 s are fine... Flight 269 crashed in Phuket ' cause no one was flying the plane and the engines were left in idle on a go around for 15 seconds . Remember the airline was later grounded for violating safety rules

according to this US NTSB leaked report ( Thailand has delayed the report repeatedly ..)

The Black Box data tells us Arief was not a factor in the landing. In fact, he is not heard from at all once the decision is made to land. Montri didn't have the skills to manage the landing and plane was buffeted by the winds. Montri announced his intention to abort the landing but then failed to properly configure the aircraft for a go-around. Suddenly, the aircraft had no thrust. Montri panicked and tried to relinquish control of the aircraft to Arief ("You have control"), who did not respond. For 15 of the final 19 seconds of flight — an eternity in aviation — no one was flying the aircraft. 4 seconds before impact with an embankment, someone, we don't know who, applied the throttle. It was too late. Throttles require 7-9 seconds to spool up. The aircraft slammed into the embankment.

http://investigateudom.com/files/blackbox.pdf

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/11/13...ss_30088326.php "All eight MD-80 Series aircraft were grounded for defects when seven pilots of One-Two-Go were suspended.

Orient Thai's training did not follow the manual, and the airline submitted false documentation for the pilots' efficiency tests, the regulator said.

One-Two-Go's safety standards first came into focus when its plane crashed in Phuket last year. Lawyers for the British and US families of the 90 victims are seeking Bt8.32 billion in compensation in US courts in a case that may shed a harsh light on the cost-cutting and safety standards of some low-cost airlines."

[ozfarang81]

Orient- Thai is also owned by 1-2 Go Udom Tantiprasongchai (the CEO) and was also grounded for safety issues. forged pilot log books , lack of emergency training, lack of manuals, etc ... Let's see that airline blacklisted too..

http://www.investigateudom.com/

and www.DontFlyThai.Com has a lot of info on how Thai DCA is culpable for the Phuket crash, too.

No one has been held accountable even though One-Two Go was grounded for safety issues directly pertaining to the Phuket crash.

90 people died .

MD 80/81 are very difficult to fly with bad wheather, last week another one from FedEx crashed in japan, pilots dead.

With any Airbus the pilots in Phuket would have landed ok.

Md 80/81 should be demolished...and i just remember that BKK Airways, the boutique airline, is flying some of them with Siam Rep logo.....Hope no wind when i live Samui....

another aviation related post with incorrect and utterly rubbish information.

The FedEx aircraft that crashed recently in Japan was a MD-11. Not a MD80.

There is nothing wrong with the MD80 series aircraft, it flies by the thousand around the world. How can you say 'any airbus the pilots would have landed ok'. Your a fool mate, Thai Airways themselves crashed an airbus in Surat Thani in bad weather!

As for Bangkok Airways, they fly the Boeing 717 which is a relative of the MD80, and has a great safety record.

[GungaDin]

This problem of a poor safety record with 12go etc., could be solved overnight if the combined insurers did what they did to KAL a few years ago.

Refuse insurance cover until the airline/s got their maintenance and training up to acceptable standards.

KAL got rid of all their ex-military pilots and sent the rest back to flight school in the US.

It didn't take long to sort KAL out.

[Lite Beer]

2 Topics Merged and moved to News.

[neverdie]

Got them back from the Mai the other day and apart from the plane looking a bit like an old Russian bomber and the pilot the spitting image of Biggles ...it was fine.

Hot cup of coffee plus a norri rice cake with a pleasant smile .....no complaints

Its all fun and games until one of them lands with an approach angle of 90 degrees!

It amazes me the number of poor fools that risk this sort of thing, just to save a few satang.

[Mosha]

Orient- Thai is also owned by 1-2 Go Udom Tantiprasongchai (the CEO) and was also grounded for safety issues. forged pilot log books , lack of emergency training, lack of manuals, etc ... Let's see that airline blacklisted too..

http://www.investigateudom.com/

and www.DontFlyThai.Com has a lot of info on how Thai DCA is culpable for the Phuket crash, too.

No one has been held accountable even though One-Two Go was grounded for safety issues directly pertaining to the Phuket crash.

90 people died .

MD 80/81 are very difficult to fly with bad wheather, last week another one from FedEx crashed in japan, pilots dead.

With any Airbus the pilots in Phuket would have landed ok.

Md 80/81 should be demolished...and i just remember that BKK Airways, the boutique airline, is flying some of them with Siam Rep logo.....Hope no wind when i live Samui....

Since when has a DC10 looked like a MD81/82? Bangkok Air fly 717-200s, a more modern version of the MD9 and MD8s., but carrying less passengers than the MD8s

Also by blacklisting an airline not flying to the EU, it prevents EU travel companies selling tickets on those airlines.

Edited April 9, 2009 by Mosha

[on-on]

WHY HAS NO ONE BEEN HELD ACCOUNTABLE?

I hate to be flip, but the answer is BECAUSE THIS IS THE DEVELOPING WORLD LACKING STRONG LAWS AND INSTITUTIONS AND SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE THIS IS THAILAND. I'm hoping your question was rhetorical, because you should know the answer.

[JetsetBkk]

Got them back from the Mai the other day and apart from the plane looking a bit like an old Russian bomber and the pilot the spitting image of Biggles ...it was fine.

Hot cup of coffee plus a norri rice cake with a pleasant smile .....no complaints

They don't all fall from the skies, mate.

I hate to be flip, but the answer is BECAUSE THIS IS THE DEVELOPING WORLD LACKING STRONG LAWS AND INSTITUTIONS AND SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE THIS IS THAILAND...

^ Sums it up.

[khundon]

They don't mind them flying over EU it's when they crash they don't like it.

We all know that the safety proceedures of many of these airlines is crap, if you fly with them you are supporting poor safety for profits.

I would NEVER fly with any of these cheap airlines, they will lie and cheat their way out of any accident investigation.

The only way to punish them, is not to fly with them, full stop.

So you save a few quid, no good to you when you are falling to Earth at 32ft per second per second.

[LostBro]

They don't mind them flying over EU it's when they crash they don't like it.

We all know that the safety proceedures of many of these airlines is crap, if you fly with them you are supporting poor safety for profits.

I would NEVER fly with any of these cheap airlines, they will lie and cheat their way out of any accident investigation.

The only way to punish them, is not to fly with them, full stop.

So you save a few quid, no good to you when you are falling to Earth at 32ft per second per second.

Being burned alive probably sucks too.

Someone wrote about getting the airlines insurance pulled. Great idea. Apparently impossible. We have provided the lead insurance company Global Aviation Underwriting, in London, chief legal officer Steven Walsh, and Lloyds brokers the proof of past and present grave dangers and illegalities by Orient Thai and One-Two-Go Airlines. They continue to insure the carrier. Why? 2 Reasons:

1) Because Thailand has a legal system that protects the wealthy and powerful, payouts are small. After collecting $5M-$10M/year from Orient Thai since its inception in 1992, Global Aero will likely pay out approximately $5M-10M for killing 90 people in OG269 and destroying an aircraft (insured for $1M to Udom, which is 20x the amount offered to the families of the dead.) So it's a highly profitable business as long as Thailand's legal system does not improve.

2) Orient Thai and One-Two-Go are fully certified airlines. That is, the government of Thailand gives them all the stamps and approvals for airline. Global Aero and any other insurance company has no responsibility to the passengers. If Thailand says these are legal airlines (which they do), then Global Aero is free to insure them, even though they know of the gross safety violations. In other words, Global Aero is living up to its responsibilies. Zero moral responsibilites and $50k to your family if you are killed in a crash, no matter the reason for the crash.

[spongeman]

Very interesting post that.

I think that when you factor in comfort safety etc paying a bit more is no bad thing. I for one would NEVER fly on a budget asian airline,even an internal flight.

[CFIT]

http://www.phuketgazette.com/news/

EU blacklisting irrelevant: One-Two-Go chairman

PHUKET: The chairman of One-Two-Go says the recent addition of the carrier to a European Union blacklist will have no effect on the company, which has never flown to Europe.

One-Two-Go's addition to the updated blacklist was announced in a press release yesterday.

To view the release, click here.

One-Two-Go chairman Udom Tantiprasongchai told the Gazette this afternoon that the listing was irrelevant because, as a domestic Thai carrier, One-Two-Go has never flown to Europe.

Furthermore, One-Two-Go's parent company, Orient Thai, had already discontinued all passenger and cargo flights to the continent, he added.

Orient Thai is not included on the updated blacklist.

Speaking by phone from a train platform in Tokyo, Mr Udom said he didn't think the listing was related to safety issues, [ what a bald faced lie..] but rather to the fact that the EU commonly blacklists carriers who don't own their own aircraft, even though operating leased aircraft is common in Asia.

As for One-Two-Go's regular service to Phuket from Bangkok's Don Mueang Airport, Mr Udom said load factors on the 14 flights weekly have been strong at 80% to 90%.

The Bangkok to Phuket route was resumed in December last year after the Department of Civil Aviation (DCA) finally lifted a series of three suspension orders on the carrier following the crash of One-Two-Go flight OG269 at Phuket Airport in September 2007.

The suspension followed a pubic outcry after the crash that claimed the lives of 90 of the 123 passengers aboard. The cause of the crash was later determined to be flight crew error caused by systemic failures, both at the airline and within the DCA.

One-Two-Go's resumption of service came just at the start of the high season for tourism, which this year was marred by the takeover of both civilian airports in Bangkok by People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) protesters.

One-Two-Go is also adding new flights to the northern province of Phitsanuloke, Mr Udom said.

We'll just see about that .....

Next, Orient-Thai

Edited April 10, 2009 by CFIT

[CFIT]

They don't mind them flying over EU it's when they crash they don't like it.

We all know that the safety proceedures of many of these airlines is crap, if you fly with them you are supporting poor safety for profits.

I would NEVER fly with any of these cheap airlines, they will lie and cheat their way out of any accident investigation.

The only way to punish them, is not to fly with them, full stop.

So you save a few quid, no good to you when you are falling to Earth at 32ft per second per second.

Being burned alive probably sucks too.

Someone wrote about getting the airlines insurance pulled. Great idea. Apparently impossible. We have provided the lead insurance company Global Aviation Underwriting, in London, chief legal officer Steven Walsh, and Lloyds brokers the proof of past and present grave dangers and illegalities by Orient Thai and One-Two-Go Airlines. They continue to insure the carrier. Why? 2 Reasons:

1) Because Thailand has a legal system that protects the wealthy and powerful, payouts are small. After collecting $5M-$10M/year from Orient Thai since its inception in 1992, Global Aero will likely pay out approximately $5M-10M for killing 90 people in OG269 and destroying an aircraft (insured for $1M to Udom, which is 20x the amount offered to the families of the dead.) So it's a highly profitable business as long as Thailand's legal system does not improve.

2) Orient Thai and One-Two-Go are fully certified airlines. That is, the government of Thailand gives them all the stamps and approvals for airline. Global Aero and any other insurance company has no responsibility to the passengers. If Thailand says these are legal airlines (which they do), then Global Aero is free to insure them, even though they know of the gross safety violations. In other words, Global Aero is living up to its responsibilies. Zero moral responsibilites and $50k to your family if you are killed in a crash, no matter the reason for the crash.

So will the EU ban stop this sweetheart insurance deal?