Adding A Second Level To A Single Storey House.........

[thailoht]

Has anyone had any experience with adding a second level to a simple (2 yr. old, 2 bdrm -1 bath) single storey cement house?

[apetley]

No direct experience but if you go ahead make sure you have a very good architect and builder.

Hopefully they will be able to tell you if the existing walls and columns are up to the task of supporting a new upper floor, walls and roof.

[Ahnsahn]

Has anyone had any experience with adding a second level to a simple (2 yr. old, 2 bdrm -1 bath) single storey cement house?

......or maybe having a two-story addition built onto the back or side of your existing single story house would be more doable? This new addition could have the coveted (wrap around?) porch on its upper level!

[Svenn]

i have the same question/problem. the two options obviously are taking off the roof and adding the second storey, then putting the roof back on (require a crane?)... and digging under the existing storey and somehow jack it up and put columns underneath it (simultaneously rising jacks?)... either way seems like it'd cost at least 100k i'd assume.

[Ahnsahn]

I have the same question/problem. The two options obviously are taking off the roof and adding the second storey, then putting the roof back on (require a crane?)... and digging under the existing storey and somehow jack it up and put columns underneath it (simultaneously rising jacks?)... either way seems like it'd cost at least 100k I'd assume.

.....Instead of going through all of that, and if your property allows it, my second suggestion was to build a two story structure (that is attached/connected) onto a side of the existing single story dwelling, hopefully with minor roof disruption(?) This would really work in rural areas. Now the cost factor of such a project comes into play.

[Rimmer]

i have the same question/problem. the two options obviously are taking off the roof and adding the second storey, then putting the roof back on (require a crane?)... and digging under the existing storey and somehow jack it up and put columns underneath it (simultaneously rising jacks?)... either way seems like it'd cost at least 100k i'd assume.

The mind boggles

[tjo o tjim]

i have the same question/problem. the two options obviously are taking off the roof and adding the second storey, then putting the roof back on (require a crane?)... and digging under the existing storey and somehow jack it up and put columns underneath it (simultaneously rising jacks?)... either way seems like it'd cost at least 100k i'd assume.

I have actually seen this done for historic buildings where the foundation needs to be replaced and they want to get it above the flood plane. It isn't cost-effective to say the least.

All told, unless you have some great finishes inside, you are going to be better off tearing down and rebuilding. (So much for my LEED AP...) If the building is wood, there are a few more options than concrete-- disassembly and reassembly being the most obvious.

Aside from the 2-story addition idea, the other option is to have an overhanging second floor with an independent structure-- second floor columns outboard of your existing perimeter wall. You'll have to disrupt part of the interior to add a column in there if your spans are long.

Maybe an appropriate question is why the OP wants to do this in the first place. If you just want a loft to add a bedroom upstairs and you are willing for the floors to be a bit wobbly then it might not be a huge issue.

As for trusting the architect or contractor, I still have an image in my mind of Blue Wind in Koh Tao where they added a second floor. One of the columns was bending from the first day, but it has held up for at least five years.

[PhilHarries]

i have the same question/problem. the two options obviously are taking off the roof and adding the second storey, then putting the roof back on (require a crane?)... and digging under the existing storey and somehow jack it up and put columns underneath it (simultaneously rising jacks?)... either way seems like it'd cost at least 100k i'd assume.

The mind boggles

C'mon Rimmer we've done things like that for years in the petrochem/offshore construction industry but as for his cost estimate I assume he means 100k million Baht.

Although even that cost estimate must be based on all local Issan labour.

[Svenn]

i have the same question/problem. the two options obviously are taking off the roof and adding the second storey, then putting the roof back on (require a crane?)... and digging under the existing storey and somehow jack it up and put columns underneath it (simultaneously rising jacks?)... either way seems like it'd cost at least 100k i'd assume.

The mind boggles

C'mon Rimmer we've done things like that for years in the petrochem/offshore construction industry but as for his cost estimate I assume he means 100k million Baht.

Although even that cost estimate must be based on all local Issan labour.

Have some imagination guys:

Edited April 24, 2009 by Svenn

[thailoht]

Maybe an appropriate question is why the OP wants to do this in the first place. If you just want a loft to add a bedroom upstairs and you are willing for the floors to be a bit wobbly then it might not be a huge issue.

As for trusting the architect or contractor, I still have an image in my mind of Blue Wind in Koh Tao where they added a second floor. One of the columns was bending from the first day, but it has held up for at least five years.

I'm looking at a piece of property that has a single storey cement 2bdrm/1 bath house but I need another bedroom and more storage/rec room.

From the postings, I think building a small two-storey addition and incorporating (attaching/connecting) it into one side of the house - the back end in my case - looks to be the less intrusive and less expensive(?) of the alternatives. Now to find some examples.

In light of the above horror stories, I think I'd do a complete tear down and rebuild if the 'attaching' idea couldn't be realized.

Now to look for some layouts and cost estimates (before consulting an architect): 2 bdrooms and bath on the upper level w/ porch(es). The layout of the lower level addition may have to be incorporated into the layout of the existing house. A plan is forming.......

Edited April 24, 2009 by thailoht

[Crossy]

Now to look for some layouts and cost estimates (before consulting an architect): 2 bdrooms and bath on the upper level w/ porch(es). The layout of the lower level addition may have to be incorporated into the layout of the existing house. A plan is forming.......

Have a lookie here for some ideas http://crossy.co.uk/Thai_House_Plans/ I do have (in Thai) cost estimates for these homes, but they are about 6 years old. let me know if you need them

[Asianrider]

Svenn i loved your pics

[InSiSongkram]

One of my neighbours has recently rotated his house that was on stilts and is now building a lower level to replace the stilts quite amazing really what the Thais can do when they put there mind to it.

[john b good]

i have the same question/problem. the two options obviously are taking off the roof and adding the second storey, then putting the roof back on (require a crane?)... and digging under the existing storey and somehow jack it up and put columns underneath it (simultaneously rising jacks?)... either way seems like it'd cost at least 100k i'd assume.

Spent all my life in construction and consider that this scenario would be doomed to failure. You would likely end up with a big pile of concrete and brick rubble. A Thai house is not designed to be moved.

Jack up houses are generally designed and constructed for the purpose.

If they could just jack up a house (here in the realm) why don't you see them on trucks being transported to new locations (as you do in 90 % of developed countries>

In Parnell, Auckland they moved a large church 'hollis bollis' across a road and on the Wellington harbourside they moved the Michael Fowler Hotel (4 - 5 floors and hundreds of tonne) But NZ is not Thailand.

I'd even question the wisdom of adding another floor. Have you seen the reinforcing in the columns of a Thai house. Some of it is not much more than 6mm dia. Add to this the fact that concrete is usually so boney you can almost see thru it.

And if that is not sufficient evidence think back just a few years to the hotel in Korat that collapsed after they added an extra three floors. No big deal, just 137 killed and hundreds maimed for life

Edited April 27, 2009 by john b good

[thailoht]

Spent all my life in construction and consider that this scenario would be doomed to failure. You would likely end up with a big pile of concrete and brick rubble. A Thai house is not designed to be moved.........

I'd even question the wisdom of adding another floor. Have you seen the reinforcing in the columns of a Thai house. Some of it is not much more than 6mm dia. Add to this the fact that concrete is usually so bony you can almost see thru it.

And if that is not sufficient evidence think back just a few years to the hotel in Korat that collapsed after they added an extra three floors. No big deal, just 137 killed and hundreds maimed for life....

....good point! We use to 'reconnoiter' in that hotel 'back-in-the-day' After reading all the postings, I think it would be wiser for me to look into doing a two storey attached - onto one of the sides of the house - addition.

[Naam]

i have the same question/problem. the two options obviously are taking off the roof and adding the second storey, then putting the roof back on (require a crane?)... and digging under the existing storey and somehow jack it up and put columns underneath it (simultaneously rising jacks?)... either way seems like it'd cost at least 100k i'd assume.

The mind boggles

i nearly peed in my pants!

[Beardog]

I think realistically this is going to be cost prohibited. Unless the houses bearing load was overbuilt to the hilt knowing you were going to add on a second story you are doomed right from the start. Can probably be done- but the safety & cost will be very disappointing. The loser that built our staff house(bungalo) told me he built it setup for an extra story for later. I have built houses on & off since I was 18.

A couple of friends & I had a great laugh when I opened the access to the attic & saw the weak sauce construction. I would be afraid a rat could fall from the second floor if installed.

Money will be better spent building another house along with keeping the old one- or 10,000 baht tear the old one down & build a proper new house with what you want to have. I would side with Naam & drop a load in my drawers at the idea of building on top of sub par building! Not to mention all the "mai pen rai's" (really meaning behind your back you're a quai & believe me the crews love to say that behind your back) Instant pink slips for the offending crews. My Thai girl does not care about the Thai face thing

& I don't take no shit from offenders. If you love your old house keep it up. Sometimes it's not cheaper to keep her!

Beardog

Edited April 29, 2009 by Beardog

[thailoht]

I think realistically this is going to be cost prohibited. Unless the houses bearing load was overbuilt to the hilt knowing you were going to add on a second story you are doomed right from the start. Can probably be done- but the safety & cost will be very disappointing. The loser that built our staff house(bungalow) told me he built it setup for an extra story for later. I have built houses on & off since I was 18........ If you love your old house keep it up. Sometimes it's not cheaper to keep her!

Beardog

........I see the light, now.......definitely no 2nd storey addition!

The 10k tear down - rebuild option is looking to be the logical alternative but, and I'm asking, how will its cost compare to the (feasibility and cost) of building a small two storey structure that is attached onto the back of the existing 2(?) - 3 yr old (rectangled shaped) 2 bedroom / 1 bath house?

Is this a practical option?

Edited April 30, 2009 by thailoht

[Beardog]

Regardless how you "attach" your second house structure you will have an enormous amount of settling in the new structure. anyone who has ever had the pleasure of Thai building will attest to this. You most likely will have to build the new structures soil up if it is low & should wait for at least several good rains to let the soil tamp down as soil compaction (as in the west) is almost unheard of. We put a small tool shed in as an afterthought for more room & both ends settled & has cracks all the way down both sides -not terminal but hardly a professional looking job. You would most likely be better off not attaching the existing structure as the first ones have already settled in. I think I would rather lose a slight bit of twah & build seperately to avoid settling issues- as you will have them with the new structure along with countless other mortar mix issues & a myriad of other various variables in cement buiding. I am mainly a wood builder from the U.S. & the variables are way easier to control. Here it is a pot luck of disasters ranging from poorly mixed cement - the wrong mix of products- the wrong way to do it - no buddah blessing- built on a bad day- born under a bad sign & whatever else you can think of. I think you can however limit the amount of problems by building it totally separate as a new build. Just my opinion but I am sure Johnny B Good & other people in the trade would agree on this point & it would actually be cheaper to build seperate as the builders will gouge you for afterthoughts!

And if you have any existing trees with large root systems you will want to consider moving the trees or knocking them down. We put in a gorgeous(like a royal ponchenia except purple leaves) & found out later what a massive tree this is & will become later. The roots will bust up concrete like it is soft dirt. Live & learn The tree will be pulled out & left to reroot & then be moved to the new lot- planted far away from the new structure!

Good luck on the build. Keep us posted!

[thailoht]

Have a lookie here for some ideas X X X I do have (in Thai) cost estimates for these homes, but they are about 6 years old. let me know if you need them

.........well, Crossy, I had to get the 'final verdict' before I could know which design(s) to inquire about. What are the cost and layout dimensions of house(s) # 8, 9 and 10? I'm now trying to weigh the affordability of building a 3 bedroom/2 bath 2 storey house on a 9M x 16M lot.

They wouldn't let me re-post the URL

Regardless how you "attach" your second house structure you will have an enormous amount of settling in the new structure. anyone who has ever had the pleasure of Thai building will attest to this. You most likely will have to build the new structures soil up if it is low & should wait for at least several good rains to let the soil tamp down as soil compaction (as in the west) is almost unheard of........I think I would rather lose a slight bit of twah & build separately to avoid settling issues- as you will have them with the new structure along with countless other mortar mix issues & a myriad of other various variables in cement building. I am mainly a wood builder from the U.S. & the variables are way easier to control. Here it is a pot luck of disasters ranging from poorly mixed cement - the wrong mix of products- the wrong way to do it - no Buddha blessing- built on a bad day- born under a bad sign & whatever else you can think of. I think you can however limit the amount of problems by building it totally separate as a new build. Just my opinion ..........

Thanx!!! This is more than enough reason to go for a whole new structural rebuild...........Now to determine the general cost of a 3bdrm/2 bath 2 storey house....! Edited May 1, 2009 by thailoht

[Crossy]

Have a lookie here for some ideas X X X I do have (in Thai) cost estimates for these homes, but they are about 6 years old. let me know if you need them

.........well, Crossy, I had to get the 'final verdict' before I could know which design(s) to inquire about. What are the cost and layout dimensions of house(s) # 8, 9 and 10? I'm now trying to weigh the affordability of building a 3 bedroom/2 bath 2 storey house on a 9M x 16M lot.

They wouldn't let me re-post the URL

Start here http://www.dpt.go.th/download/PW/house_model/framehome.html

The costs are behind the 3rd link from the left

สรุปราคาก่อสร้างโดยสังเขป / บัญชีแสดงประมาณงานและวัสดุก่อสร้าง

The page works quite well with the Google translator http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n...history_state0=

These costs are 5 or 6 years old now, but should give you a starting point. The same plans should be available free from your local amphur, they may have more recent costings too

[Crossy]

Forgot to add, you can download the ready to build plans from my page, just follow the "download" links to the .zip files. All layouts and dimensions are there

[thailoht]

Forgot to add, you can download the ready to build plans from my page, just follow the links to the .zip files. All layouts and dimensions are there

Thanx mucho!!