Politeness And Open Doors

[bkkjingjoe]

Been living in Thailand for over seven years now and still love it the same way as on the first day.

But something is really starting to bother me... why are so many people so impolite?

I mean for example: You walk just 5 steps behind someone and approach a door. Instead of holding the door open for just one second, they would rather slam it in your face. Happens at my condo, my office, almost everyhwere. Where I come from, parents teach their kids that it is "nice" to hold the door open for other people. Especially when you are carrying bags or suitcases or whatever. But people here just seem to ignore that and just keep walking. Anyone experiencing the same thing?

Also, I am starting to wonder where this LOS comes from. I hardly see anyone smile....except the people who get paid for it. Like air hostesses from Thai Airways or receptionists at 5* hotels. I don't see any smile or polite or friendly people anymore. What happened?

In fact it is more turning to the opposite. People tend to be rude and very unfriendly lately. I am really asking myself what is happening. I usually give people a smile. Just trying to be nice and a good person. But these smiles are rarely returned.

When I ask other foreigners or friends who visit me why they like Thailand, they usually say: "good food and nice, friendly people". I agree with the food.

So, my question is: is anyone noticing this as well? Or just my impression. As far as I remember, it used to be different.

Edited April 30, 2009 by bkkjingjoe

[MSingh]

I agree 100%..

Where you're from, you have manners which means you probably have morals too, that's good ( where is that out of curiosity )..

& where you are in Thailand also depends on the level of individual ( Thai ) that you come into contact with every day & whether they may or may not have manners..

One thing you shoudn't do is expect people just to have manners, manners are taught through generation to generation & from an early age so that they become second nature, but it's isn't taught to everyone..

This " Door " example isn't just Thailand though, i regulary used to have verbal's when i lived in teh US in the early 00's with people who " should " know better & " should " have manners with regards to that exact smae Door scenario.

I'm from London, England by the way, i wonder if that has anything to do with it ??

Edited April 30, 2009 by MSingh

[Ta22]

i alway look back before i let the door close ,

and i alway press and wairt for the lift door so everyone can come in safe .

--

this is not a what other do for you thing , is what you can do for others ,

while alot of us expect good deed to be return ,

i say do good deed cos you feel like doing it .

be it how bad ammner other behave , or how impolite otehrs is , we should try out best to be good in our own way

[IMA_FARANG]

Been living in Thailand for over seven years now and still love it the same way as on the first day.

But something is really starting to bother me... why are so many people so impolite?

I mean for example: You walk just 5 steps behind someone and approach a door. Instead of holding the door open for just one second, they would rather slam it in your face. Happens at my condo, my office, almost everyhwere. Where I come from, parents teach their kids that it is "nice" to hold the door open for other people. Especially when you are carrying bags or suitcases or whatever. But people here just seem to ignore that and just keep walking. Anyone experiencing the same thing?

Also, I am starting to wonder where this LOS comes from. I hardly see anyone smile....except the people who get paid for it. Like air hostesses from Thai Airways or receptionists at 5* hotels. I don't see any smile or polite or friendly people anymore. What happened?

In fact it is more turning to the opposite. People tend to be rude and very unfriendly lately. I am really asking myself what is happening. I usually give people a smile. Just trying to be nice and a good person. But these smiles are rarely returned.

When I ask other foreigners or friends who visit me why they like Thailand, they usually say: "good food and nice, friendly people". I agree with the food.

So, my question is: is anyone noticing this as well? Or just my impression. As far as I remember, it used to be different.

As for the doorf opening thing...it just isn't part of the Thai cultural thing to hold doors open for someone. It's a Farang thing, Thais don't have it in their tradition.

As for the LOS...well it's always been more a tourist slogan than a reality. Thais get upset too when things don't go right. In the cities especially, the last 10 to 15 years there has been a definate drop in the "friendliness" of the people. The pressure of life in Bangkok had increased, more noise and pollution now than before, and frankly things have changed. I was here in 1979...and I do remember it as more friendly then. Maybe it is just my memory, but I seem to have seen more laughter and more smiles then. Not that the poor people didn't always have problrms and hard times then. But it does seem to me that today, with more "material" advantages for many Thais, their lives are still less satisfying now than then.

Having said that, Bangkok still can produce surprises. Only about a year afgo our car broke down just outside of Bangkok. My son and some local Thais managed to get it working again. It was hot while the family was waiting. We sat underneath a tree while the car was being repaired. I was thirsty, and my Thai G/F asked if there was a place nearby where we could get a couple cokes. One of the children went and got us 3 or 4 bottles of coke. We split them up and passed coke around to the people helping to work on our car. Papaya appeared, and was sliced up. Ice appeared from somewhere, and the Papaya and some iced Pineapple was brought out and handed around. Well you get the idea. It still happens even in Bangkok.

But I must admit, the pressure of life in Bangkok, has made people less friendly than before.

[sanmiguel]

I surprisingly got a thankyou off some top end totty (5 chicks) who looked as if they were down to Pattaya from BKK for the day for opening the door the other day, the only reason i stood there like a plank keeping it open to let all 5 through was to check them out, they really were the only decent looking girls ive seen outside a gogo bar here.

I lived in London for a few years and certain races of people dont try to move in the slightest to get out the way when walking past, one day i got peed off with this and knocked some young rapper kind of kid flat on his backside as i done as he and didnt try moving in the slightest.

Edited April 30, 2009 by sanmiguel

[bkkjingjoe]

You're absolutely right, it really has something to do with culture and the way generations pass down morals and teaching children how to behave.

Btw, I am Swiss. But I have spent most of my life abroad (China, USA, India, Malaysia and Italy). And almost nowhere I have experienced such impoliteness as here. Which is quite strange as Thailand is comonly know for its politeness.

I am not saying that Thais in general are not polite. I am also not falling into the "thai-bashing attitude". As I said, I enjoy living here and wouldnt want to miss one day. I am just surprised by the way things have changed.

I remember a few years ago, taxi drivers would start conversations....just the basic "where you from, what you do, etc. etc."

But no more. They usually just look annoyed, spit and seem like they can't wait for you to get out of the cab.

So again, I am just wondering if times are simply changing or if there's more to it? I miss the small conversations, smiles, friendliness and the positive spirit.

Instead, people avoid talking to each other or paying attention to each other.

And I am almost sure, even it sounds strange, that if I would walk into a shop back home, people would say something like "hello, how are you today, what can I do for you, etc." Just small and nice signs of human interactions. And believe me, Switzerland is known for being cold and unfriendly ;-)

Anyways, would love to hear some more experiences. My "door-experience" tonight was just something that had been bothering me for a very long time now.

[MSingh]

Been living in Thailand for over seven years now and still love it the same way as on the first day.

But something is really starting to bother me... why are so many people so impolite?

I mean for example: You walk just 5 steps behind someone and approach a door. Instead of holding the door open for just one second, they would rather slam it in your face. Happens at my condo, my office, almost everyhwere. Where I come from, parents teach their kids that it is "nice" to hold the door open for other people. Especially when you are carrying bags or suitcases or whatever. But people here just seem to ignore that and just keep walking. Anyone experiencing the same thing?

Also, I am starting to wonder where this LOS comes from. I hardly see anyone smile....except the people who get paid for it. Like air hostesses from Thai Airways or receptionists at 5* hotels. I don't see any smile or polite or friendly people anymore. What happened?

In fact it is more turning to the opposite. People tend to be rude and very unfriendly lately. I am really asking myself what is happening. I usually give people a smile. Just trying to be nice and a good person. But these smiles are rarely returned.

When I ask other foreigners or friends who visit me why they like Thailand, they usually say: "good food and nice, friendly people". I agree with the food.

So, my question is: is anyone noticing this as well? Or just my impression. As far as I remember, it used to be different.

As for the doorf opening thing...it just isn't part of the Thai cultural thing to hold doors open for someone. It's a Farang thing, Thais don't have it in their tradition.

HUH ??? What do you mean " It's a Farang thing " ??

It isn't a " Farang thing " at all, it's just manners !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You're basically saying then that within Thai Culture & " their tradition ", they don't have manners, are you aware of that ??

I'm not necessarily saying i disagree with you or that you're even wrong in that respect but to say " it's a Farang thing " is in fact wrong because it's not, it's manners, that's not a cultural thing for any Farang, it's just being brought up, by your Family, with manners, end of ...

[Ta22]

whahahaha most of the bad manner i seen so far is from farang online on TV 55555555wahhahaahha

[bkkjingjoe]

@ IMA: Absolutely agree. Good things still happen and I am sure we all have some of these experiences. there are many good and decent people out there, especially outside of BKK. It's very nice to see these things and it makes me really feel good about living here. When you experience these "small" acts of friendliness, you know that it really comes from the heart and that these people are genuine.

@TA22: Yes, I see that too. And I am doing the same thing. I believe that it's what people should do in order to live together. It's just a nice way of showing respect. And when I do it (the elevator thing), I usually get very friendly smiles and thank you's back in return. But it really seems that there are not many people out there like you.

Everyday, I try to "introduce" the idea of being polite just by showing it and leading the way (holding doors open, offering help to the neighbor with carring the shopping bags, etc. Just small and basic things). It can't be so difficult to exchange these small acts of friendliness and politeness. And from what I see, everyone enjoys it and appreciates it.

[G54]

I was always taught to hold open a door and also give up the seat on a bus for older people. Deemed as good manners. Not that many of them smiled in thanks

I do it here the same as I would do 'back home' yet you never really seem to get a lot of favourable reaction from most when you do so.

Must admit I do not have a problem with Thai people smiling. Maybe the recession is hurting some and the problems that brings in some areas?

[bkkjingjoe]

I was always taught to hold open a door and also give up the seat on a bus for older people. Deemed as good manners. Not that many of them smiled in thanks

I do it here the same as I would do 'back home' yet you never really seem to get a lot of favourable reaction from most when you do so.

Must admit I do not have a problem with Thai people smiling. Maybe the recession is hurting some and the problems that brings in some areas?

Brings me to another point: why is it considered polite to offer a seat on the BTS to a young kid (10-15 years of age)? I mean, these kids are in the best shape of their lives and are sure strong enough to stand for a few minutes. When I was a young kid, I didn't mind standing.

Think I have read sth about this topic here before but can't find the post. What I mean is that all these busy office workers, no matter what age, definately deserve the seat more after a long day of work than the young school boy. And I don't mean offering the seat to old people....they do.

But if there are no senior citizens around, people still stand up and give the seat to the kid. What is this?

I don't think it hurts the kid to stand for a while. Instead, I believe that this teaches kids that they're to be treated as something special which then is reflected in their behavior towards parents, teachers and other kids.

Could someone shed some light on this issue? I am really having a hard time understanding it.

[TerryTibbs]

Your forgetting one important point that the Thais do here that many people do NOT do back home. TAKE YOUR SHOES OFF before coming into the house. How many mates you had back home used to come around your house after walking in the rain and just wipe their trainers or shoes on the door matt and walk on your brand new carpet!!

Something else I was bought up to do is when someone makes you something to eat or drink around their house when you have finished take the plate or cup out to the kitchen, that is also polite and good manners and very rarely seen. I'm a sucker for holding doors open for people its in my nature. I simply could not open a shop door whilst someone is approaching and let it go. Regardless of whether people are polite or not always remember how you was bought up. Even my Thai girlfriend taught me to say Khrab at the end of every sentence of Thai, albeit the little that I know.

[Jim's_a_Thai_Fox]

I have always been (or thought of myself as) a chivalrous gent - opening doors, keeping them open, letting women go first (at whatever it is we are doing etc....

Not found to much of that here in Thailand. Different strokes for different folks. I still continue to behave in a polite manner as I don't do it for reciprocation.... that said, Thais (and ladies especially) really like a door being held open for them etc - it is such a rarity... long may that continue so I can continue to score easy brownie points

Cheers

[loong]

I still see plenty of smiles out in the sticks.

With the door thing, I sometimes wonder if Thais consider it low class or in some way showing yourself as inferior to hold a door for someone. I am surprised at the number of times people will just breeze through and not even acknowledge that you have held the door for them. Almost as if you are invisible.

[bkkjingjoe]

Your forgetting one important point that the Thais do here that many people do NOT do back home. TAKE YOUR SHOES OFF before coming into the house. How many mates you had back home used to come around your house after walking in the rain and just wipe their trainers or shoes on the door matt and walk on your brand new carpet!!

Something else I was bought up to do is when someone makes you something to eat or drink around their house when you have finished take the plate or cup out to the kitchen, that is also polite and good manners and very rarely seen. I'm a sucker for holding doors open for people its in my nature. I simply could not open a shop door whilst someone is approaching and let it go. Regardless of whether people are polite or not always remember how you was bought up. Even my Thai girlfriend taught me to say Khrab at the end of every sentence of Thai, albeit the little that I know.

VERY good points. Haven't thought about this. There are some traits that are truly polite and worth mentioning. Thanks for the inputs. Just reminds me again of some of the good and polite things in everyday life here.

[flying]

I still see plenty of smiles out in the sticks.

With the door thing, I sometimes wonder if Thais consider it low class or in some way showing yourself as inferior to hold a door for someone. I am surprised at the number of times people will just breeze through and not even acknowledge that you have held the door for them. Almost as if you are invisible.

hahah that is what I wondered....I noticed right away none held the door.

But by force of habit I still did. Ok fine but many times everyone would continue to walk through & leave me holding...hahaha

Some did in fact smile & nod thanks but this manner we speak of...... holding the door is usually continued by the next able person or man.....But here they just pile through & never touch the door

[bkkjingjoe]

I still see plenty of smiles out in the sticks.

With the door thing, I sometimes wonder if Thais consider it low class or in some way showing yourself as inferior to hold a door for someone. I am surprised at the number of times people will just breeze through and not even acknowledge that you have held the door for them. Almost as if you are invisible.

Good point as well. Haven't thought about this one before. It really could be an issue of considering it low class. Wouldn't surprise me. this would contradict the entire discussion and theory about culture and heritage. When I think about it, it really could be true. I usually see this behavior of closing or not-opening doors with hi-so people. Maybe they really don't want to "lower" themselves to being a "door-opener". Again, extremely interesting point. Thanks for the input!

See, there is so much more to this issue than what hits the eye.

[bkkjingjoe]

I still see plenty of smiles out in the sticks.

With the door thing, I sometimes wonder if Thais consider it low class or in some way showing yourself as inferior to hold a door for someone. I am surprised at the number of times people will just breeze through and not even acknowledge that you have held the door for them. Almost as if you are invisible.

hahah that is what I wondered....I noticed right away none held the door.

But by force of habit I still did. Ok fine but many times everyone would continue to walk through & leave me holding...hahaha

Some did in fact smile & nod thanks but this manner we speak of...... holding the door is usually continued by the next able person or man.....But here they just pile through & never touch the door

So true, that exactly reflects my experience. Thought I was the only one. And not even looking up into your eyes when passing through that door...or a quick smile or nod. Wouldn't that make it so much more comfortable and friendlier? Guess as a farang you're not supposed to even think about these things, let alone try to change behaviors in your condo/ apartment building ;-)

[simon43]

I think the door-opening issue is a 'bubble' thing. Sometimes Thais live in their own little bubble, totally oblivious to those around them. If you burst their bubble, (by pointing out to them how rude it is not to hold the door open etc), then they suddenly realise this fact and are apologetic.)

On a similar topic, I caused a little 'stir' yesterday at my hotel. The local OrBorTor team came to visit (presumably as an excuse to ask for more local taxes!). Every time their team visits us (maybe about 8 people), they never 'wai' me. They always wai my Thai ex and our Thai staff, but ignore me totally. (Which presumably is an indication of what they consider my status to be...) Most other Thai visitors always have manners to greet me.

On this occasion, with my ex absent, I decided to confront them on this. After they strode onto the land without even a hallo or sawadee, I approached them and asked why they never 'waied' me! In Thai, I said that I understood that it was good manners in Thailand to wai others as a greeting, yet they were the only Thais who did not wai me. Why was that, I asked.

Well, much embarressment all round on their part. (Yes, I know one should try to avoid loss of face, but this is about good manners, nothing else).

When they exited the land some minutes later, all the female staff waied me and received an appropriate and respectful wai in return. Everyone smiling, not difficult was it?

The sole exception was the male team leader who refused to acknowledge my presence whatsoever - and no doubt will now recommend an increase in the local tax for our hotel this year.....

Simon

Addendum:

My ex says that she will visit the OrBorTor office to 'explain' to them my 'status' (local volunteer police guy, sponsor of the OrBorTor football team kit blah blah blah), so that they don't feel that they were waiing the guy who cleans the toilets (even tho I do...)

Edited April 30, 2009 by simon43

[JetsetBkk]

I think the door-opening issue is a 'bubble' thing. Sometimes Thais live in their own little bubble, totally oblivious to those around them....

You beat me to it.

LOS - Lack Of Spatial-awareness

Hence: poor driving skills, standing at the exits of escalators, etc.

[dee123]

no-one ever "wai's" a janitor Simon!!

[noahvail]

It appears, from reading the posts above, that nearly all are from city-dwellers. I can assure you that out in the provincial villages, things are as you say they used to be. As an old bloke, I am usually honoured by a wai when I arrive somewhere, unless it's a person of some stature in an office or the community - then I give the wai first, and it's always returned, and wtih a smile. And yes, people here don't go about their daily business with a smile stapled to their faces...but if I pass someone and smile at them, they invariably smile back and nod. I think it's one of the most beautiful things about Thailand - that people form a bond, if only for a moment.

That said, it's a whole lot different when they hop on their scooter or get behind the wheel...sigh...

[BigSnake]

I think most Thai people are out just doing there shopping thing or what ever and at time just forget to extend a common courtesy. Most farangs here will agree(I think) that for the most part Thai people are very friendly easy going and will do most anything possibe to make their farangs guests feel

Edited May 1, 2009 by BigSnake

[tmd5855]

Manners maketh the man?

Whether it is reciprocated should not be the desired result. Knowing you will open or keep a door open for the gentler sex or the aged. Give your seat up to your elders or an expectant female and always walk on the outside with your partner. Those are fine traits and a good habit to have.

Living here now for 6+years and I have not come across any deliberate rudeness.

Have held the door open for elderly ladies back in the UK who breeze past as if I am the invisble man?

Given my seat up to ladies on the underground when there were young guys around.

Spoke with one of the teenagers later on manners, his reply "Never knew that mate, the old man never said I had too" So it's a parenting or schooling failure.

My GF and her mother beams at times when I show them manners respect by simple things, standing when they leave the table and rejoin, sitting in the back of the pick-up so they can sit inside.

At the end of the day it is a personal thing and makes me feel good to maintain the standards I learnt at sea from 1977 to 1995.

[snuggzzz]

The modern world puts pressure on people whatever their culture, materialism has changed people, they are not deliberately rude, but not as thoughtful as they once were, indeed, most people are mentally 'juggling' various issues. In relaxing environments, people then afford themselves the privileges of good manners......!!

[LawnGnome]

Been living in Thailand for over seven years now and still love it the same way as on the first day.

But something is really starting to bother me... why are so many people so impolite?

I mean for example: You walk just 5 steps behind someone and approach a door. Instead of holding the door open for just one second, they would rather slam it in your face. Happens at my condo, my office, almost everyhwere. Where I come from, parents teach their kids that it is "nice" to hold the door open for other people. Especially when you are carrying bags or suitcases or whatever. But people here just seem to ignore that and just keep walking. Anyone experiencing the same thing?

Also, I am starting to wonder where this LOS comes from. I hardly see anyone smile....except the people who get paid for it. Like air hostesses from Thai Airways or receptionists at 5* hotels. I don't see any smile or polite or friendly people anymore. What happened?

In fact it is more turning to the opposite. People tend to be rude and very unfriendly lately. I am really asking myself what is happening. I usually give people a smile. Just trying to be nice and a good person. But these smiles are rarely returned.

When I ask other foreigners or friends who visit me why they like Thailand, they usually say: "good food and nice, friendly people". I agree with the food.

So, my question is: is anyone noticing this as well? Or just my impression. As far as I remember, it used to be different.

If you really want to know the answer to this question, go to the bookstore and buy a copy of "Working with the Thais: A Guide to Managing in Thailand" by Henry Holmes and Suchinda Tangtongtavy. It is explained quite clearly in chapter 3, when it discusses the three social circles in Thai Society. Understanding these three social circles will give you a very good understanding of most behaviors you witness in and around Bangkok.

Its the best answer your going to find here. Sorry you had to put up with all the other crap to get to it, lol.

[MSingh]

Been living in Thailand for over seven years now and still love it the same way as on the first day.

But something is really starting to bother me... why are so many people so impolite?

I mean for example: You walk just 5 steps behind someone and approach a door. Instead of holding the door open for just one second, they would rather slam it in your face. Happens at my condo, my office, almost everyhwere. Where I come from, parents teach their kids that it is "nice" to hold the door open for other people. Especially when you are carrying bags or suitcases or whatever. But people here just seem to ignore that and just keep walking. Anyone experiencing the same thing?

Also, I am starting to wonder where this LOS comes from. I hardly see anyone smile....except the people who get paid for it. Like air hostesses from Thai Airways or receptionists at 5* hotels. I don't see any smile or polite or friendly people anymore. What happened?

In fact it is more turning to the opposite. People tend to be rude and very unfriendly lately. I am really asking myself what is happening. I usually give people a smile. Just trying to be nice and a good person. But these smiles are rarely returned.

When I ask other foreigners or friends who visit me why they like Thailand, they usually say: "good food and nice, friendly people". I agree with the food.

So, my question is: is anyone noticing this as well? Or just my impression. As far as I remember, it used to be different.

If you really want to know the answer to this question, go to the bookstore and buy a copy of "Working with the Thais: A Guide to Managing in Thailand" by Henry Holmes and Suchinda Tangtongtavy. It is explained quite clearly in chapter 3, when it discusses the three social circles in Thai Society. Understanding these three social circles will give you a very good understanding of most behaviors you witness in and around Bangkok.

Its the best answer your going to find here. Sorry you had to put up with all the other crap to get to it, lol.

I will hunt this Book down as this subject interests me immensely..

[klikster]

For me, the manners issue is very personal. I look at it as a mix of karma, education and self satisfaction.

I generally return shopping carts to a collection area. Oft times I'll grab another stray along the way. Many Thais tend to leave them blocking parking spaces. Some Thais look at me oddly when I do that. Okay by me ..

.. on the other hand .. recently at Tesco I offered to return a cart for 3 young women .. pretty smiles and nice wais from all 3.

I hold doors open a lot .. especially for ladies whether they be young or old. As they pass through they virtually always say "ka". I smile a little smile somewhere between "you're welcome" and "dam_n, I wish I was 25 again!" Lots of double takes and nice smiles.

Courtesy may not be contagious, but I doubt if it breeds contempt .. and it seems enough that its a personal reward.

It's also quite inexpensive.

[tmd5855]

For me, the manners issue is very personal. I look at it as a mix of karma, education and self satisfaction.

I generally return shopping carts to a collection area. Oft times I'll grab another stray along the way. Many Thais tend to leave them blocking parking spaces. Some Thais look at me oddly when I do that. Okay by me ..

.. on the other hand .. recently at Tesco I offered to return a cart for 3 young women .. pretty smiles and nice wais from all 3.

I hold doors open a lot .. especially for ladies whether they be young or old. As they pass through they virtually always say "ka". I smile a little smile somewhere between "you're welcome" and "dam_n, I wish I was 25 again!" Lots of double takes and nice smiles.

Courtesy may not be contagious, but I doubt if it breeds contempt .. and it seems enough that its a personal reward.

It's also quite inexpensive.

Agree, its not the moral high ground you seek but maintaining your own standards. Good manners are a good habit to have

[Lancelot]

I still see plenty of smiles out in the sticks.

With the door thing, I sometimes wonder if Thais consider it low class or in some way showing yourself as inferior to hold a door for someone. I am surprised at the number of times people will just breeze through and not even acknowledge that you have held the door for them. Almost as if you are invisible.

Sorta agree with Lung on this one.

Lots of genuine smiles up in Isan.

I have had some Thais acknowledge me for holding the door open but most just walk through like I'm the doorman I do think status is part of it. Just look at Thai hi so behaviour, they pretty much lord it over others they deem inferior.

Just my take