Upgrade Or New Pc?

[Jockstar]

Ok. If you have read my previous threeads regarding my PC problems. ie It freezes up. So i was gonna upgrade my PC. I currently have a Pentium 3 256Mb with disk size 40GB. I was gonna upgrade. But it have been thinking again. Just to buy a whole new PC at the specs that i want. I can then try and sell mine to a PC shop or just anyone in general.

I would like Pentium 4 with 1Gb Ram and the same Hardrive space. I have been quoted a few prices from people on here regarding upgrading. But i'm seriously thinking just to buy a totally new PC. The current one i have was 2nd hand when i bought it and has many things on the Pc that i dont need. I have deleted many of these. But i think it would be cool to have a nice fresh Pc with no <deleted> on it. So what would you recommend and how much am i looking at roughly for the specs i want?

[cdnvic]

Why don't you put your current PC in the classifieds section and see what kind of offers you get, then from that calculate your budget, and what kind of goodies you can get.

cv

[Firefoxx]

You would be replacing pretty much everything, except for the case, PSU, and CD drive(s) (assuming you keep everything outside the case). That doesn't add to much, around 2-3k, so getting a new computer or upgrading wouldn't be very different.

[Jockstar]

You would be replacing pretty much everything, except for the case, PSU, and CD drive(s) (assuming you keep everything outside the case).  That doesn't add to much, around 2-3k, so getting a new computer or upgrading wouldn't be very different.

So any ideas on prices for the specs i said? Will replace the monitor and keep printer moem etc. I think i'm quite keen to start new.

[Firefoxx]

Prices really depend on what you're aiming for. Rock-bottom prices and dodgy lowest bidder equipment? Nice equipment, but at a price? Very good stuff that requires a second mortgage?

Also, what do you plan to use the computer for? What do you expect of it, in terms of performance? Do you plan on upgrading the CPU later on?

About the harddrive... a harddrive is pretty cheap right now. If you buy a 40-80gb drive, you're paying quite a premium per megabyte. The cheapest in terms of cost/meg are the 160gb and 200gb models, and they're not that much more.

Edited February 2, 2005 by Firefoxx

[joka]

or a easy fix, just take it to a shop and reinstall xp for around 400 baht, including a few games. this will take care of your freezing problems, if they are malware related.

the best deals i have seen are the frok hyundai 1.8 with 128, 15 monitor, cd etc. for 100000. this is the computer i bought. it comes with linux, but that is easily remedied here. actually the best deal on the frok is the 2.4a, it has 256 l2 cache, 17 in. monitor, cd-rw.

or , if you want something that should be immune to the upgrade sydrome for awhile, atec is selling amd64' for 19000. check the websites of these companies.

i am pretty happy with my frok, though i did add a cd-rw, and more mem, and a video card. if and when i ever get adsl, i'll add a dvd-rw, more mem, and possibly upgrade to a celeron 2.4d or pentium 4. the pentium 4 has 1 gb l2 cache. this was cheaper then buying the whole shebang at one time, and then i might have some extra parts to make a computer for my nephew or something.

[slimdog]

Hi Jockstar

It will be very difficult for someone to quote a price for a new pc as prices change on a daily basis, and it will depend on whether you want a well known branded pc, lesser known pc or one that a shop builds up for you.

The best deals around are usually for lesser known brands, but you will probably have to purchase additional memory to bring it to the spec you want.

Don't discount the AMD processors as these are just as good as the Intel ones but generally cheaper.

If you are going to sell your old computer then don't forget to format your hard disk and re-load an o/s. The reason for this is that there may well be information on your hard disk (which you have forgotten about) such as credit card details, bank details, old love letters etc.

As the amount you will get for your second hand (3rd hand) computer will be fairly small 3000 - 5000 most people tend to keep them and use them for parts,(installing old hard drive as an additional drive etc)

Half life 2 is quite a popular game in Panthip, if you walk around, you will probably see at least one employee playing it somewhere, find out what system they are using and you might get some help.

As your main reason for buying a new computer is this game, don't forget to take a copy with you so they can load it on and get it working for you, (you might want to take your graphics card as well if you are intending to keep it)

Best of luck

[monty]

Hi Jockstar,

I read in your previous post you have a FX5900 videocard already. As this is one of the more expensive parts in a gaming pc I would use that one in the new pc you're building/buying. You can always pick up a cheap secondhand one for your old pc if you want to keep it complete. PentiumIII are to slow for decent gaming anyway!

Certainly don't discount AMD, as they positively have the lead in gaming performance over Intel and are cheaper.

In my opinion you would only have to go for Intel if you are going to do video editing. In that area (and only that!) Intel is the performance leader, and even by a pretty big margin....

So to your original question... prices:

I'll quote two different ones, first very fast AND easily upgradable if faster CPU's come available at lower prices, second one still good performance though less upgrade potential in the long run

Screaming fast / upgradable

Athlon 64 3000 (Socket 939) 7700 Baht

Socket 939 mainboard around 8000 Baht, make sure it comes with vga slot instead of PCI-e

2X512 Mb ram(400) around 7000 Baht

160gb hard drive 4400 Baht

dvd-rom/cdRW combo around 1600

case, keyboard, mouse,... around 2000 Baht

secondhand vga to keep your old pc up and running not over 500 Baht

Total less then 32000 Baht.

Decent budget though hardly upgradable

Athlon XP 3000 7700 Baht

nforce2 mainboard 3500 Baht

2X 521 Mb ram around 7000

80 gb hard drive 2500 Baht

dvd-rom/cdRW combo around 1600

case, keyb,... 2000 Baht

500 Baht secondhand vga

Total around 25000 Baht

For less then 7000 Baht more I would go for the Athlon64 version. Extremely fast gaming, you already have a very good VGA board (which would otherwise add another 9000 Baht) and this machine will probably last you a lot of years, with only a cpu ugrade when price come down on the faster ones!

You can make it more expensive with fancy cases etc, up to you!

Bring your video card to one of the Panthip shops, together with your wishlist and they will put together what you need for the price of the parts!

Monty

[Amethyst]

i would recomend you by getting a brand new custom made PC

[Firefoxx]

This is my idea of a nice computer, with nice components:

P5P800 mainboard 4,200

LGA P4 3Ghz 3,800

1GB DDR Ram 6,000

Aluminum Case 2,000

SATA 160GB HDD 4,300

17" LCD 11,000

DVD-writer 4,000

Around 35k total (20k if no LCD/DVD writer)

[monty]

Firefox,

Where can you get a P4 3 Ghz for 3800 Baht?

Price should run around 7700 Baht

http://www.busitek.com/forms/pricelist.html

Certainly would be a nice setup, but performance wise it will be beaten by a similar priced setup from AMD.

As said before this setup will on the other hand pretty much beat any AMD setup (even much more expensive ones) on video editing/converting!

Guess it is the area where Intel's Hyperthreading really shines...

[Darknight]

the best deals i have seen are the frok hyundai 1.8 with 128, 15 monitor, cd etc. for 100000. this is the computer i bought. it comes with linux, but that is easily remedied here. actually the best deal on the frok is the 2.4a, it has 256 l2 cache, 17 in. monitor, cd-rw.

For 100.000 bath ???? 128 mb, 15 inch screen ? it better have 4 xeon processors then.

Man you've been scammed

Top of the line built pc, last technologie would never set you back more then 50 thou

[Firefoxx]

Err, typo. Should have been 7,800 for a P4 LGA 3Ghz. Likewise, a typo from joka, 100000 should have been 10000.

I really don't have much experience with the newer AMDs, but I do like the multitasking that hyperthreading allows. But from what I've read, you should go with the socket 939 versions since they have less heat. In the previous generation, Intel beat AMD with regard to heat, but with the current generation prescotts and AMD64's, there is less difference.

[Jockstar]

Will probably go this weekend and have a look. I have a plug and play monitor. I take it that this means i dont have to install any software for it? As i dont have it. Also i have to get the new PC on credit. using the gf's Easybuy card. Any chance that this can be done at Pantip? I've never been there so i have no ideas.

[Firefoxx]

Credit card acceptance depends on the shop. Some shops accept Visa, Amex, mastercard, etc., some don't, some accept only some. Some charge 1%, some charge 3%, some don't charge at all.

No software needed for the monitor.

[monty]

Seen quite a few shops with the easy buy logo...

You're right firefox, 939 socket is the way to go, not only for the heat but mainly for upgradability. AMD is already fasing out both socket A and socket 754.

The faster Sempron's and of course the 64bit series will all run on socket 939.

I'm not sure how you like the multitasking Intel allows, it's only used by software specially written to use this capability. Most video editing software does this, the main reason Intel consistently beats AMD in these applications.

If you would run two applications simultaniously (e.g. ripping a cd to mp3's in the background while you work your spreadsheet) you wouldn't be using the multitasking from Intel's processor but the multitasking the Windows platform allows.

Regular software which is not specifically designed to make use of Intel's hypertreading technology consistently runs faster on AMD processors.

As a computer user you simply don't notice much what goes on inside your puter!

Anand tech has a great website (and honest as they give credit where credit is due)

They regularly compare Intel and AMD on pretty much any software you can throw at them.

As the original poster started this thread because he wanted to play half Life2 i think this comparing test pretty much sums it up.

http://anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=2330&p=2

Here you can see AMD's 64/3000 cpu outperforms Intel's similarily priced P4 530 by at least 25% in pretty much any game you want to play...

[monty]

And before anybody thinks I've got loads of shares in AMD

http://anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2275&p=9

Here you can see the Intel products shine, in these applications even AMD's fastest FX-55 (very expensive and I guess even not for sale in Thailand) can't keep up!

This means that the PC you choose to buy depends very much on what you want to with it!

This is a question I have never heard being asked in any shop in Thailand, and as you can see in the tests I linked to before this should be exactly what they should ask...

If you're a hard core gamer your money should go to an AMD based PC combined with a very good graphics card.

For an allround used PC the ball lies a bit in the middle, although for similarily performing systems AMD will be a couple of thousand Baht cheaper.

Video and audio creation simply needs Intel. The time savings can be very big if you want to convert one DVD after the other to vcd format for example... If you do this for business this would translate to a system which really pays back itself...

[Firefoxx]

I was actually referring to doing multiple tasks at once. On most computers, I usually can't do two cpu-intensive tasks at the same time without extreme lag, but with my current computer I can, regardless of whether the programs know about hyperthreading or not. To the programs hyperthreading just looks like you have two CPUs. I have one program that uses the CPU 100% for each of it tasks, but it can perform two tasks concurrently with two CPUs, and it has no hyperthreading option.

I routinely have at least 20+ windows open at any given time, and so the ability to truly multitask (or rather, multi-process, or multi-thread) is important to me. A lot of people who've tried hyperthreading swear by it, but then again it's not something that's necessary for everyone. The AMD 64's are intriguing, but right now I'm really addicted to the freedom of what I've got. Perhaps when they come out with a multi-proceessor version.

[Jockstar]

This is my idea of a nice computer, with nice components:

P5P800 mainboard 4,200

LGA P4 3Ghz 3,800

1GB DDR Ram 6,000

Aluminum Case 2,000

SATA 160GB HDD 4,300

17" LCD 11,000

DVD-writer 4,000

Around 35k total (20k if no LCD/DVD writer)

So which one is better? This one or...........

Screaming fast / upgradable

Athlon 64 3000 (Socket 939) 7700 Baht

Socket 939 mainboard around 8000 Baht, make sure it comes with vga slot instead of PCI-e

2X512 Mb ram(400) around 7000 Baht

160gb hard drive 4400 Baht

dvd-rom/cdRW combo around 1600

case, keyboard, mouse,... around 2000 Baht

secondhand vga to keep your old pc up and running not over 500 Baht

Total less then 32000 Baht.

This one? Really need to know before i go and inquire about prices etc. This is gonna cost me a bit so i need to know it will be good for a few years of gaming etc and also upgradable. Cheers guys!

[Firefoxx]

The thing about upgradeability in your case is that you already have a nice VGA card. The problem with that is that it's AGP, and the new standard is PCI express. So far there are no boards available that have both. So, if you're going to keep your old card, you'll be unable to upgrade down the line. Maybe ask for a trade-in at the shop?

Both sets are pretty good and very fast and will be adequate for at least two years. If you want good gaming, for for the anthlon set. If you want good video/graphics work, go for the intel set.

[Jockstar]

Went to Fortune today after work. Just for a look. Didnt have any info supplied here but was just kinda browsing. There seems like so much different systems/brands etc. As i have said before i am no PC wizard. Hence this thread and others. Really need to get it all straight in my head before i just jump in there and maybe regret it later.

[Jockstar]

Firefox. You are a very smart Pc man. Help me out here. Please confirm that i am making the right decision. Regarding the 64. I wont personally blame you in 2 years time. I will be living in Ox by then and can and will by a new Pc in 2 yeras. But for now. The 64?

[Firefoxx]

Depends on what you want... getting the 64 and a socket 939 motherboard will allow upgrading to a multi-core AMD in the future. The 64 is also fastest in most game benchmarks.

The P4 HT allows multi-threading and is also fastest for working with graphics and video. Get the newer LGA mainboards, and you will be able to upgrade later on.

So, if your main concern is games, go for the 64. If you want to do video/graphics, go fo the P4.

Remember what I said about your VGA card. It might be better to trade it in for a PCI-express card.

[bkk_mike]

One thing - If you're upgrading from a Pentium 3 to an Athlon 64 or Pentium IV, remember to check your power supply.

Both draw a lot more power than a Pentium 3, so check your power supply can cope with the increased power requirements.

(In fact, if your PC is crashing only in applications that use the 3D mode of the graphics card, it's a possibility that your power supply isn't really up to it. Modern graphics cards draw a lot more power in 3D than when they're just running 2D stuff in Windows...)

Check that it's at least 350W, preferrably more if you're running more than a couple of hard drives, and if you do need to get a new power supply, you tend to get what you pay for.

As well as reading the power supplied at different voltages (12v is the important one, more current on that the better...), simple weight is often a good way of telling which psu is better. (Not all heavy power supplies are good, but light ones are almost universally crap...)

Edited February 4, 2005 by bkk_mike

[monty]

Absolutely true,

the power requirements from most hardware is much higher now compared to just a short time ago...

I'll post with some idea's tomorrow concerning the way to go for you, and try to back it up with links from tests...

The concsencus is you can't go wrong with Athlon 64 for gaming purposes, but we still need to give you more concrete advice, and try to mate your new system with the good graphics card you have already...

First and most important rule, don't rush ...

In the mean time, I think the Busitek Shop in Pantip has some stuff available in the higher end class (psu's, better then average cases etc) at reasonable prices so you want to take a look...

http://www.busitek.com/forms/pricelist.html

You don't need your system tomorrow, so just lurk around and see what other people advice you...

[Jockstar]

Ok. Just got back from Fortune. Went and spoke to a few people there regarding prices etc. Only one place could do my list. Will try Pantip tomorrow.

Athlon 64/3000 Socket 939 CPU...................7490

Mainboard with 939 socket with VGA slot

MSI K8V NEO 2 .......................................... 4550

2x 512 Ram(400)......................................... 6300

160GB HD (Kingston brand).......................... 4350

DVDRom/CD Rom Combo............................1590

Total ....................................................... 24,280 Baht

Firefox. Does this sound ok? Will check more prices at Pantip tomorrow, Hopefully!

Edited February 5, 2005 by Jockstar

[Firefoxx]

You might want to go for a dvd-writer... the prices are fairly cheap now (around 4,000). Otherwise, the prices are pretty typical...

A kingston brand harddisk? Better get a 160GB SATA Maxtor (maxwell warranty) harddisk. Or a 160GB SATA Seagate (dcom warranty).

Don't forget to ask if you can trade in your old AGP card to get a newer PCI express card.

[Jockstar]

Went to Pantip today. Th3 prices i was quoted were between 21500 baht to about 25500 baht. So a big difference. I will probably get a DVD writer but was just wanting prices on the basic spec that i want. I can get about 3500 to 4500 baht for my existing PC. So i can save a little. Also the VGA card. ie AGP slot. They all just looked at me when i asked for trade in. Would it be so much hassle tyo just keep the Vga Card and in a few years change the mainboard for PCI e and a new VGA? Taking my time on this. No need to jump in and regret it later. But looking forward to getting my nice new PC.

[Gazza]

Jock, if I remember correctly, you're around the Lad Prao area?

If so, try looking around Zeer IT in Rangsit (junction of VipaRangsit and Phaholy Rds). Might be nearer. Don't know about prices though.

[Jockstar]

You might want to go for a dvd-writer... the prices are fairly cheap now (around 4,000).  Otherwise, the prices are pretty typical...

A kingston brand harddisk?  Better get a 160GB SATA Maxtor (maxwell warranty) harddisk.  Or a 160GB SATA Seagate (dcom warranty).

Don't forget to ask if you can trade in your old AGP card to get a newer PCI express card.

Seems a few are quoting the Kingston brand HD. Anyone have any experience with this brand?