Wrinkly Backpackers V. Spotty Tourists

[taxexile]

'Grey pound' lets older Britons blaze a trail as tourists

By Catriona Davies

(Filed: 07/02/2005)

Older travellers leave young backpackers behind when it comes to clocking up destinations, a survey has found.

It revealed that people aged 65 and over had been to an average of 12.8 countries, compared with just 5.8 for 18- to 25-year-olds.

Even allowing for the fact that older people have had longer to visit the countries, this shows an explosion of "grey pound" tourism, according to BMI's magazine Voyager, which questioned 3,000 adults.

Dan Linstead, the editor of Voyager, said: "There are more people over 65 than ever before and they have more time and disposable income.

"They are choosing to spend their time and money on travel, and are not just visiting the traditional resorts."

Mr Linstead said four times as many people over 65 as under 35 had been to Morocco, while twice as many had been to South Africa, Kenya, New Zealand, Australia and Thailand.

"Thailand is somewhere we associated with young backpackers but, in fact, 11 per cent of over-65s compared with five per cent of under-25s have been there," he said.

The survey found that, overall, the average number of countries visited was 9.6 – 8.7 for leisure and 2.4 on business.

Nine out of the top 10 countries visited for holidays were in Europe, the exception being America, which 44 per cent of Britons had visited.

Only 15 per cent of Britons have never travelled abroad. Sixty-four per cent have been outside Europe.

France was the most visited country, followed by Spain, America, Germany, Italy and Belgium.

Beyond Europe and the US, the most-visited country was Canada (17 per cent), followed by Cyprus, Australia, Turkey and Singapore.

Alain de Botton, the author, said: "To visit nine countries in a lifetime might not seem like much but, compared to any other period of history, it's an astonishing amount.

"Two generations ago, most people didn't even leave their county, let alone their country."

from todays uk online telegraph.

this goes some way to confirming what i have long thought , that most of todays backpackers are just package tourists in silly pants with no sense of adventure.

they just go where they are told by that poisonous publication "lonely planet" and in doing so they really have a follow my leader , adventure free , boring trip , mixing only with their own kind and whilst willing to pay silly prices for excursions and alcohol , will spend half an hour trying to bargain a taxi or samlor fare down by 5 baht and claim to be having an "asian experience moment".

that terrible tome has done more to spoil the planet , dull the mind and curb the spirit of travellers since the black death.

as for respecting any local culture they happen to inadvertently stumble across whilst searching out the next "in beach" or happening guest house , all they usually display is the same in your face holier than thou i'm cooler than you attitude that they bring from home. the level of respect is usually nil , you may see the occasional bearded swede or spotty brit trying to make conversation with a monk but beyond a few words with the guest house owners impressionable teenage son or pubescent daughter interaction with locals is pretty much zero.

as ever , its the older generation that lead the way both in social skills and responsible behaviour whilst the younger generation preen and pose , boast and bluster , sweat and smell and imagine they are columbus , magellan or scott of the antarctic , all the time behaving like a bunch of dumb bleating sheep.

older travellers with humour and tolerance make far better ambassadors for their countries than do most of the lonely planet mob who just seem to rub everyone up the wrong way.

Edited February 7, 2005 by taxexile

[cdnvic]

I think part of the problem is that those who began Lonely Planet were at one time adventurous, risk taking travellers (Just read their book about worst travel stories) who have just gotten old and conservative.

The first South East Asia guide I read in the 80s was alot more edgy than what they put out now. I think its more for the tourbus crowd than real "independant travellers". These kids aren't as smart as the old foggies who buy into the tourbuses, souveneir shops, and accomadations with western style facilities, so why shouldn't they fall for it all? Twenty years ago backpacking was something a few people did, not a multibillion dollar industry.

I don't see many expats living a true thai lifestyle, and many don't bother to try and learn the language, and make fun of those who make any attept to... feeble as it may be. So I hardly how these backpackers are much different, unless you include their lack of cynicism.

So tell me. How empty does your life have to be before a kid in fisherman's pants gets your panties all in a knot? If that is a big problem to you then I don't think you have any room to be calling them sad.

They're funny to look at, and make me roll my eyes often enough but the kind of hyperbolic drivel about Lonely Planet being second only to the black death pretty much blows away any notion that you're writing from an even keel.

cv

[taxexile]

So tell me. How empty does your life have to be before a kid in fisherman's pants gets your panties all in a knot? If that is a big problem to you then I don't think you have any room to be calling them sad.

They're funny to look at, and make me roll my eyes often enough but the kind of hyperbolic drivel about Lonely Planet being second only to the black death pretty much blows away any notion that you're writing from an even keel.

cv

i do find it sad that a lot of the younger travellers today travel around pretty much the same well trodden path as recommended by the guide books ,like a long line of ants just following , never leading.

this just sanitizes the whole experience , and relieves the traveller of having to interact with local people to obtain what they need. it takes away most of the need for initiative.

so when i see todays lot , dressed and with an attitude like indiana jones giving out the impression that they are pioneers and talking in a similar manner , it seems like hypocracy , and i believe that hypocracy should be exposed and derided wherever it is found. wearing fishermans pants or whatever is just a uniform and to me it makes them stand out as having lost any independance that they think they might possess. when you wear any uniform you lose some of your identity.

they purport to be something that they are not.

i would not want to deny young people their trips or their fun , you have got to grab your fun when you can these days , but i retain the right to criticize , poke fun and even hyperbolize about them

(my hyperbolic rant was just a bit of poetic license )

and i've never claimed to be writing from an even keel !

[cdnvic]

You must go forth to Khao San and teach the young grasshoppers the true (untrodden) path then master.

Tell them you can get free accomadation in kabul if you have dreadlocks... that should start some adventures.

cv

[taxexile]

Tell them you can get free accomadation in kabul if you have dreadlocks... that should start some adventures. 

no need to put your life in danger , plenty of real adventures to had here in thailand , just burn those

"terrible treasonable tomes" (am i allowed to say that)

and get out there .

[RDN]

Tell them you can get free accomadation in kabul if you have dreadlocks... that should start some adventures. 

no need to put your life in danger , plenty of real adventures to had here in thailand , just burn those

"terrible treasonable tomes" (am i allowed to say that)

and get out there .

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You can say anything you like as long as you don't break these..... .. http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?act=boardrules

But I prefer spotty smelly backpackers to noisy tattooed "big" bikers, any day. You should've seen the one I saw yesterday! Had metal bits in his lips and nose, tattoos everywhere, skinhead, fat, ugly, scowling, ... if I'd met him on a country road I dunno if I'd drive my truck away from him as fast as possible or straight at him. Of course I wouldn't drive at him - just joking - would do far too much damage to the truck. Now, a 12 gauge shotgun a la "Easy Rider" .....

[johnnyk]

At least they are seeing something beyond Disneyland and it may stay with them. Better than the ones who finish uni and dive headfirst into a corporation.

Lonely Planet didn't only get conservative, they got rich.

[Ajarn]

Live, and let live, and that includes not slagging others. That says it for me, in a nutshell.

And 3,000 people in a study does not a world make

[Gazza]

But I prefer spotty smelly backpackers to noisy tattooed "big" bikers, any day. You should've seen the one I saw yesterday! Had metal bits in his lips and nose, tattoos everywhere, skinhead, fat, ugly, scowling, ... if I'd met him on a country road I dunno if I'd drive my truck away from him as fast as possible or straight at him. Of course I wouldn't drive at him - just joking - would do far too much damage to the truck. Now, a 12 gauge shotgun    a la "Easy Rider"  .....

Becareful RD, Ravisher got a weeks free holiday for joking about blowing up a cat-killers car.

Yeah, those wannabe Hells Angels look tough with their 'Born to be Wild' black t-shirts.......that are nicely cleaned and neatly ironed by their maids.

[RDN]

Becareful RD, Ravisher got a weeks free holiday for joking about blowing up a cat-killers car. ....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ooops! Thanks for the tip . I'll tone down my biker-hating rhetoric from now on. Promise.

Yeah, right!

[Kerryd]

You must go forth to Khao San and teach the young grasshoppers the true (untrodden) path then master. 

Tell them you can get free accomadation in kabul if you have dreadlocks... that should start some adventures. 

cv

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hey ! Free accomodation in Kabul ? Well, it's possible. Afghanis are known to be hospitable, and once invited into their home, you are protected like one of the family. But if you are an infidel, watch out.

Right now Kabul is a city of (unoffically) about 5 million people, and about 3 million of those are living in makeshift slum shelters, bombed out buildings and rusted-out sea containers.

Kabul itself is fairly safe (as safe as almost any other city with a similar sized population), but outside the city is more like the wild wild west. Not to mention that Afghanistan is the 3rd most heavily land-mined country in the world.

Take a guess at which country is in # 1 (hint, it's a lot closer than you may think !)

[Martin_F]

As backpacking has become a more established mode of vacationing, more people will try it out and these will truely be less inclined to steer a non established path. But it is eveyones choice and I suggest that it is much more enlightening for more 'tourists' to experience other parts of the world, rather than an elitist few who had the oppurtunities from birth to travel with their parents.

I say good luck and happy travels and take the spirit and experiences home and enjoy them.

But it still doesn't stop the determined few from finding non-mainstream attractions.

On the point of LP they are more conservative in their recommendations. But could you image the headlines:

'Guidebook recommends killing fields tours.'

'Guidebook recommendations kills 10 in Thai Cambodia border area.'

Edited February 28, 2005 by Martin_F

[aaaaaa]

... But it is eveyones choice and I suggest that it is much more enlightening for more 'tourists' to experience other parts of the world, rather than an elitist few who had the oppurtunities from birth to travel with their parents.

I say good luck and happy travels and take the spirit and experiences home and enjoy them....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree with Martin - good point !

this reminds me of story I was told once by friend here. sort of buddhist wisdom story (Chinese)....

there was a rich guy and his poor friend. poor friend comes over to rich one and invites him to join on his jorney (pilgrimage) to the South.... rich guy says, yeah, great idea, but at the moment I have a lot of business to take care of - so, can you wait a bit more - then we'll go together. poor friend said, never mind, I'll go alone. but how you'll go - you don't have no money. it's ok, I'll manage somehow.

after a year or so poor friend visits rich guy again. I came back from pilgrimage, visited all the places and temples there. now I'm heading North - would you like to join me? rich guy makes same excuse: I'm still busy, can you wait a bit longer please? poor friend again tells him he don't want to wait - he'll go alone. yeah, but how you'll be able to make this trip - you are poor, no money, nothing.

yeah, but somehow I've already made trip to South and returned back - answers poor friend and starts his trip again....

I recall when I visited my family and friends couple of years ago - few my friends told me that they envy me - because I'm able to travell to so many coutries. when they've heard of Bangkok - they were so amused: wow, such an exotic place - may be once in this life we'll manage to go visit it.

and I though - hmm, envy me? even though they've settled down and have steady business/ job/ other arrangements for life, families etc etc - why they should envy me? it's me who envies them - coz I have no any of these things. but somehow people even while having solid settle down - they think about their unfulfilled dreams, like to go travell around the world, well at least to some "exotic" place like Bkk .... but life pressure and other social, financial and other whatever obligations forces them to postpond. and many of them hardly even been to some other town in their lives. I remember talking to people who live in seaport town. I ask them - do they feel lucky (coz I love sea) been able to go to the beach anytime. to my surprise - most of people living in such towns hardly few times in their entire lives bothered to go there - while some other people spend big money to be able to cross long disctance one in a year or in few years to come there and spend few days !

so, I agree - let those who wanna travel do it, without waiting till they become rich or "spotty" . coz travel not always means being a tourist -and definetely not about being spotty. unfortunately this modern world makes many things mixed up and twisted - people go to other countries to be spotty and to show off how well-to-do they become - as if they can't do that back at home ! or may be they feel easier to impress some "less developed" asians? I think those who travel without much fuss - can get more experience and laern more of local cultures etc. than those spotty who come half globe across and do shopping and dringking only and other kind of things which can be done without traveling so far. I'd say - let young people get taste of travel and adventure and of broader world - because their perception is still fresh, not so stagnant as of those semi- or retired people who already achived everything in lives and got their opinions (well, mostly cliches and stereotypes) about everything - and hardly even willing, what to say able to learn something new and / or appretiate some other cultures and people.

[buadhai]

When the first Lonely Planet publications("Southeast Asia on a Shoestring" and "Across Asia on the Cheap") came out they were really just sort of general guides on how to see these places and travel on the local economy; eat the food the locals eat, stay in places that locals stay, etc. Sure, they made a few specific recommendations, but these were just to give you an idea as to what was possible.

For example, the 1977 edition of "Southeast Asia on a Shoestring" had a single paragraph about Koh Samui. I spent a lovely two weeks on Samui that year based on this paragraph, but I didn't stay in or eat at any of the places in the book.

Over the years LP has attempted to turn in to a comprehensive listing of every sight, restaurant and guest house that it deems worthwhile. As a result, it ends up leading the horde around by the nose rather than inspiring them to go out on their own.

Sadly, the world has shrunk and LP has played a great part in this. The result is that the adventure is gone from almost any place that LP covers.

[meadish_sweetball]

Or could it simply be that you are getting older and the adventure has gone from your own mind. I bet the feeling for the 20-year-old arriving at Don Mueang is still one of awe and adventure.

It is sad to follow a guide book (or anything) too slavishly, but perhaps sadder to get stuck for years and years in a tourist trap and ending up hating those who see other things, with or without a guide book. This is not a personal attack directed against you taxexile, just a general observation.

Some justified criticism of backpackers with a holier-than-thou attitude towards other forms of tourism as well as a delusional view of Eastern socities, but it is easy to see the speck in your brother´s eye and miss the log pertruding from your own.

[taxexile]

This is not a personal attack directed against you taxexile, just a general observation.

it wasnt taken as a personal attack , meadish.

but i do believe that following lp will take away a lot of the real adventure out of a trip. i dont mean the adventure of a rock climb , or a (proper) jungle trek , but the adventure of having to find things out for yourself.

maybe todays travellers prefer it that way.

i hope the adventure has not gone from my own mind , i still get a thrill from visiting new places , and i hope i dont come across as someone full of hate for lp users , i just feel that too much reliance is placed on it and it takes away initiative.

[The_Moog]

I know ......young people today. Pfft.

Not like when I were a a lad. I couldn't swan off around Asia. My idea of a good holiday was Paignton.

Young people are disrespectful to us Senior citizens too.

"On yer bike Grandpa? ' and other not funny ripostes.

[taxexile]

I know ......young people today. Pfft.

its nothing to do with age moog.

its to do with laziness and wanting everything on a plate.

its to do with making the effort

its to do with travelling because everyone else does it , or travelling because you have a genuine inquisitiveness about other countries.

[toastwars]

I know ......young people today. Pfft.

its nothing to do with age moog.

its to do with laziness and wanting everything on a plate.

its to do with making the effort

its to do with travelling because everyone else does it , or travelling because you have a genuine inquisitiveness about other countries.

I notice you live in Yorkshire, Bangkok and Samui...not excactly off the beaten track are we Tax?

Why's that?..lazyness?...wanting it all on a plate?

Times may have changed and we do see more people going to the same destiations, the adventurous ones are still there and still doing it off the beaten track..maybe it's just that you ain't there to see it....

[The_Moog]

I like Lonely Planet. It deals with the routine bread-and-butter stuff - town maps etc.

When you get to a place. Say its an Isaan Bus Station - i've been to tons of them, its filthy, full of annoying touts, and you haven't a clue where the guesthouses are.

When i've been places with no guidebook, i've spent ages finding accommodation, carrying my wife and our cases.

Then, right, .....i'm in........ time to go and find a little in town adventure.

I'm knackered. Zzzzzzzzzz.

Handy tip though, don't just choose a gaff recommended in LP, as its often full to bursting. A place next door might be newer (too new for the book) and more suitable

I notice you live in Yorkshire, Bangkok and Samui...not excactly off the beaten track are we Tax?

Heh Heh, sweet, lets see Fred Trueman trying to gainsay this one !!!

Edited March 3, 2005 by The_Moog

[taxexile]

I notice you live in Yorkshire, Bangkok and Samui...not excactly off the beaten track are we Tax?

Why's that?..lazyness?...wanting it all on a plate?

eeeh bah gum lads !!!

do i have to live full time in the middle of baghdad or the gobi desert to be able to express an opinion on travel.

when it comes to "off the beaten track " , i can hold my head up and say that although now based in comfortable places with platefuls of amenities , i gave up an excellent career in order to succesfully pursue my love of travel and getting as far away from the beaten track as its possible to get.

and its only because i've " paid my dues over many years on the road" that i feel fully qualified to comment on travellers who are spoon fed by lp.

so there you go toastwars ,

toasted , roasted and outposted !

nothing much rhymes with moog i'm afraid.

[The_Moog]

Exile's defence is as strong as that of my boyhood hero, Sir Geoffrey Boycott.

Nothing gets past his forward defensive stroke.

[toastwars]

I notice you live in Yorkshire, Bangkok and Samui...not excactly off the beaten track are we Tax?

Why's that?..lazyness?...wanting it all on a plate?

eeeh bah gum lads !!!

do i have to live full time in the middle of baghdad or the gobi desert to be able to express an opinion on travel.

when it comes to "off the beaten track " , i can hold my head up and say that although now based in comfortable places with platefuls of amenities , i gave up an excellent career in order to succesfully pursue my love of travel and getting as far away from the beaten track as its possible to get.

and its only because i've " paid my dues over many years on the road" that i feel fully qualified to comment on travellers who are spoon fed by lp.

so there you go toastwars ,

toasted , roasted and outposted !

nothing much rhymes with moog i'm afraid.

Ain't we all an dyou will still find me in a hammock once a month in Kanchanaburi national park counting bear droppings, and I still refer to the LP on occasion as it does have some facts to offer. But you don't catch me slating every backpacker and accusing them of always wanting it safe and secure...A large percentage will always want security ad a safety net, a small majority will be happy to get out there and see some real sights it is your sweeping generalisations that are giving us Yorkshiremen a bad name, Whetever happend to "see all hear all say now't"

I am the sort of person who will jump off a train because the town I am at is not tin the guide book, I try to tell any newbie travellers to do what they feel safe doing, eventually I hope that they do move out of the safety zone but with some it takes time.

There you go tax...exiled...cause of your lack of prehensile you big erectile

[The_Moog]

What about those Backpackers from Torquay who went to Kanchanaburi?

Shot and run over 5 times - what a jolly jape for them. Such an adventure.

(I had a friend from Teignmouth who was beaten to death in his tent in India by Nepalese labourers with shovels - he'd gone off the beaten track on motorbikes with his girlfriend into the Himalayan foothills).

" 'Lax Backpacks sucks' clucks Tax "

Edited March 3, 2005 by The_Moog

[taxexile]

to the moog

When you get to a place. Say its an Isaan Bus Station - i've been to tons of them, its filthy, full of annoying touts, and you haven't a clue where the guesthouses are.

exactly , you prove my point , with a l%&ely pl@^et in your pocket you can avoid all things thai and head straight for the guest house for tea and toast.

never mind that our backpacker friends would learn more about the country they are visiting by spending four hours in a bus station than they ever would by spending two weeks in a guest house recommended by l@#%*y 4ucking pl#%et.

yes , you're right , better they avoid any social intercourse with the locals , they dont want to be mixing with "bus station "people do they ! they wouldnt want to ask them a question to get some information. filthy dirty bus station........then why come to thailand , i hear the bus stations in monte carlo are pretty clean these days.

far better to rush straight to the guest house and compare tattoos with other bus station refugees and then watch another hollywood video whilst eating a ham sandwich , after all this is thailand.

the moogster....sorely in need of a reality booster. (its the best i could come up with )

to toastwars

will still find me in a hammock once a month in Kanchanaburi national park counting bear droppings

exactly . that says it all.

toastwars , likes to come across as a slice with some crust , but his logic is sadly pure flaky rust.

gentlemen , you are giving yorkshire a reputation as a place full of limp wristed softies and bear sh1t experts.

i rest my case.

yet again.

it goes without saying that the incidents mentioned in nepal and kanchanaburi are worrying and horrifying , but most adventurous backpackers do make it home safely from their trips , and whilst not wishing to make light of those incidents , murders are not unknown close to home either.

[The_Eye_Of_Sauron]

Khao San may be a pastiche. Like Thamel in Kathmandu.

But where do backpackers go - the Oriental?

If you're tired after a 13 hour flight from Halifax, you don't want to be trundling up and down the BTS getting off at every station looking for a hotel.

So there is a role for guidebooks, for travel info on the web - for sensible planning - but leaving some room for flexibility.

A middle way.

(I've asked Bangkok residents to point where I am on a street map, and you'd think i'd showed them a map of the Moon, they hold it upside-down. Its clear they don't know what it is)

I spy the "Eye", What a guy ! 'Sauron' he's no moron.

[SiamJai]

Better than the ones who finish uni and dive headfirst into a corporation.

Smells like jealousy to me... couldn't make it to anything in life, stuck in the middle of nowhere smelling cow dung every day, and now trying to disguise it as 'adventurous spirit'? lol... if it makes you feel better. But you are right; a uni-educated person could get a decent LOS job - other than 'English teacher' fresh off Khao San Road.

I notice you live in Yorkshire, Bangkok and Samui...not excactly off the beaten track are we Tax?

Exactly... whenever I see someone's "Location" showing both a Thai and some posh Farang place, it's quite obvious that the person is about as committed to the Thai way of life as the average Pakistani to Judaism. How about giving it all up, doing away with the comfy West altogether instead of trying to ride two horses with one ass. And that includes you too, Mr. 'Muang Thong and Brighton' Toastwars.

do i have to live full time in the middle of baghdad or the gobi desert to be able to express an opinion on travel.

Nay, but folks with half-assed committment to life in a third-world country can't really brag about being adventurous - aside from the "occasional adventure", like the little schoolkid's scoutcamp weekend. Edited March 4, 2005 by SiamJai

[taxexile]

Nay, but folks with half-assed committment to life in a third-world country can't really brag about being adventurous - aside from the "occasional adventure", like the little schoolkid's scoutcamp weekend.

why does one have to be "committed" to one thing or another , do you think that the guy who walks to the south pole comes home to an igloo after his 6 month trek , because he is committed to frostbite , grow up man !!

variety is the spice of life.

you remind me of that guy in the advert for the adventure channel who lives in a tent ....(in his living room.) and you sound just like one of those holier than thou backpackers who thinks the only way to see thailand is to walk around barefoot never spending more than 50b/day so you can empathise with the people.

if only you knew how patronized and insulted "the people" feel when westerners try to go native.

what will i gain if i give up my western ways and attempt to go native.

only disrespect from people i respect.

yorkshire......a posh farang place......

i've had more in the way of adventures siam jai than you have had hot dinners , and thats a fact , and because i enjoy my comforts doesn't make me any more or any less of a person than the street sweeper living in a shack on 3000b/month.

now if you'll excuse me , its 1pm and i'm late for my afternoon ascent of everest.

[The_Eye_Of_Sauron]

Exile is probably referring to kerb crawling adventures with Elland Road smack-hoors in the mid seventies.

Can't really see this topic is getting anywhere. If people want to use a guide book, let them. Its not compulsory. If people want to go solo and wing-it, they can.

[SiamJai]

why does one have to be "committed" to one thing or another ,

because it's a heckuva different taking the hardships of a third-world life when you know it all ends in a few months and you'll fly home first-class on THAI, so you can brag about your 'adventures' from your living room in Farangland. "Got the T-shirt, took the picture, let's go home"

So in fact, you are that guy in the advert for the adventure channel who lives in a tent ....(in his living room.). You can have all the illusion of livin' it tough, but at the end, you are still bound to your living room in FarangLand. - like I said, just little scout-camp kid mentality.

backpackers who thinks the only way to see thailand is to walk around barefoot never spending more than 50b/day so you can empathise with the people.

hey wait a sec, Tax... I thought you were the one decrying the mindless crowds and the old geezer package tourists who just follow LP, following the walked path, living in well-established touristy places.

So on your adventures, did you live in the cheapo place you found on your own, to be 'one with the locals', or just opened LP and picked a place from there? Either way you'll contradict yourself, just as your lifestyles do.

i've had more in the way of adventures siam jai than you have had hot dinners , and thats a fact

Oh-ho... let's hear, hear, oh, Great Adventurer!

Let me tell you something, dude. The real adventure is not about going on holiday to some exotic places. Going through all the daily trials and tribulations of becoming an integral part of that place - that's real adventure. This ain't Survivor. There is no Mommy to run back to in FarangLand, when it gets tough in this game.

Edited March 4, 2005 by SiamJai