Schengen Visa Too Difficult

[zzSleepyJohn]

Hi, I'm a UK pensioner living partly in UK and partly in Thailand with my Thai wife who is also close to pensionable age. Wife has had several UK visitor visas over the years, and also three multiple entry Schengen visit visas in the past, two issued by the French embassy in London (incorrectly I now understand because she was was not settled in UK at the time) and a third by the French embassy in Bangkok, all three free of charge.

While I was in Thailand earlier this year, we received an invitation from some Norwegian friends to pop over and visit them for a fortnight whilst we were both in England, so as soon as my wife had her UK visit visa approved, she got all the documentation prepared and went to the Norwegian embassy in Bangkok to apply for a free Schengen visa so we could go over to Norway from UK for a couple of weeks. I had previously helped her with the preparation of these documents (because she can't read or write in English herself) and included a letter of guarantee and evidence of my funds, signed by myself, just as I had in the past when applying to the French embassy. As a bonus, we also included a proposed itinerary from Liverpool to Oslo Torp via Ryanair, an international travel insurance covering the period, and we arranged for our Norwegian friends to supply an invitiation form written in Norwegian and copies of pages from their passport. We added these even though the Application for Schengen Visa Form implied these extras were not strictly required because of a note on the form saying the questions marked with [*] do not have to be answered by family members of EU or EEA citizens.

All this was no good!

The Norwegian embassy found all kinds of problems with my wife's application and sent her away on two seperate occasions to get more documentation. All kinds of different rules were being applied; the visa wasn't going to be free because I wasn't living in Norway. My letter of guarantee was not acceptable for indeterminate reasons, and the questions marked [*] needed to be answered after all.

By this time, I'd left for UK and couldn't help with all these extra requirements, and my wife was totally fed up at having made special journeys to Bangkok from her far-distant provincial home, all for nothing. A request to set up a phonecall from our Norwegian hosts to the embassy in Bangkok to try and sort things out Norway-style, was refused by the embassy.

My conclusion: - It has become just "too difficult" to get a Schengen visa for a Thai wife. True or false?

OK, that's the background. Now to my questions:

According to Directive 2004/38/EC, a third country family member should not need any visa at all

provided they are accompanied by their EU citizen spouse. See

http://yedda.com/questions/schengen_visa_s..._7351421072162/

So, could this work? Has anyone tried it? Starting from UK, which Schengen State would it be safest to make as a first entry point? If I've understood it correctly, so long as we travel together and we can show my wife's passport as ID and our marriage cert, they should let us in. What d'you folks think?

Feel free to PM me if you have any info that you think might be sensitive.

[surayu]

which Schengen State would it be safest to make as a first entry point?

....Italy?

[zzSleepyJohn]

....Italy?

Yeah? What makes you suggest Italy?

I have to ask because it's not exactly in a straight line towards the direction I'd ultimately be heading.

[surayu]

from my own experience and feedback i have seen around, it looks like there is a more relaxed kind of attitude as long as your paperwork is fine, however you might well find the same or possibly even better with other countries but i am not personally aware of this, so other users might tell you about their experiences about the other EU countries, good luck.

[Khun Ngo]

Don't forget that apart from the "Schengen Visa" you can still apply for ordinary visitors

visa that are just valid for this country.

This might be less trouble.

[weescotsguy66]

Why not try and reapply at the French Embassy saying how much you love France and then just go to Norway.

It may be a case of the Norwegians not really wanting Asians into the country, or you have just hit a jobs worth person.

My partner has only had one Schgen Visa and she got that from French Embassy in Bangkok and it ws no problems.

[zzSleepyJohn]

Why not try and reapply at the French Embassy saying how much you love France and then just go to Norway.

It may be a case of the Norwegians not really wanting Asians into the country, or you have just hit a jobs worth person.

My partner has only had one Schgen Visa and she got that from French Embassy in Bangkok and it ws no problems.

Hmmm... yes, thanks for that, but the problem we have now is that I am in England while the wife is in Thailand, far from Bangkok, and unable to fill in forms in English (or French) by herself. She will soon travel to England on her UK visit visa, and the embassies in London will nowadays only grant visas to foreigners who have a permanent settlement visa in UK. That's why my thoughts have been turning towards the idea of trying to invoke Directive 2004/38/EC and going without any visa at all. Not sure if it would work, though, and I'm wondering if a) anyone else has tried it and which country would be safest.

[zzSleepyJohn]

Don't forget that apart from the "Schengen Visa" you can still apply for ordinary visitors

visa that are just valid for this country.

This might be less trouble.

That's an interesting suggestion, but I've never heard of an ordinary visitor's visa like that. Can you give more details? I thought for the Schengen States, it was a case of all or nothing.

[xjessie007]

Why not try and reapply at the French Embassy saying how much you love France and then just go to Norway.

It may be a case of the Norwegians not really wanting Asians into the country, or you have just hit a jobs worth person.

My partner has only had one Schgen Visa and she got that from French Embassy in Bangkok and it ws no problems.

Hmmm... yes, thanks for that, but the problem we have now is that I am in England while the wife is in Thailand, far from Bangkok, and unable to fill in forms in English (or French) by herself. She will soon travel to England on her UK visit visa, and the embassies in London will nowadays only grant visas to foreigners who have a permanent settlement visa in UK. That's why my thoughts have been turning towards the idea of trying to invoke Directive 2004/38/EC and going without any visa at all. Not sure if it would work, though, and I'm wondering if a) anyone else has tried it and which country would be safest.

Sorry to hear about your experience, especially considering your wife already had 3 visas, and they do not see it. My suggestion, I would not go to the border without being sure in advance that you will make it through. You might get through with the Directive in hand, but if not, you wasted a lot of time and money. Does the Norwegian embassy have email? If yes, you could email them with your question. You could also contact other government offices in Norway, I do not know what they call them, but all the embassies have to report to someone, usually they call it the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, and such. Try contacting them. Maybe you could google up some contact to the border patrol office. If everything fails, then applying for a visa at another state embassy could work.

[xjessie007]

Hey, I just found something, perhaps it helps:

Royal Norwegian Embassy

25 Belgrave Square

London SW1X 8QD

http://www.norway.org.uk

0207 591 5500

Mon—Fri 10.00—12.00

Source: Embassies and consulates in London

[Khun Ngo]

Don't forget that apart from the "Schengen Visa" you can still apply for ordinary visitors

visa that are just valid for this country.

This might be less trouble.

That's an interesting suggestion, but I've never heard of an ordinary visitor's visa like that. Can you give more details? I thought for the Schengen States, it was a case of all or nothing.

All EU member countries still issue their own visa that are only valid for their country. Just try and ask at the Norwegian embassy in London.

Sorry, but I don't have more info.

[Carib]

Don't forget that apart from the "Schengen Visa" you can still apply for ordinary visitors

visa that are just valid for this country.

This might be less trouble.

That's an interesting suggestion, but I've never heard of an ordinary visitor's visa like that. Can you give more details? I thought for the Schengen States, it was a case of all or nothing.

All EU member countries still issue their own visa that are only valid for their country. Just try and ask at the Norwegian embassy in London.

Sorry, but I don't have more info.

They do not issue `own visa`s` for just ` a` country, that is highly unlikely because there are no borders in Europe, so you can go from one country to another without ever being checked.

Europe has for the most part become the `Schengen state`. Access to one country allows access to all countries under the Schengen treaty.

Google and they shall find....

[zzSleepyJohn]

They do not issue `own visa`s` for just ` a` country, that is highly unlikely because there are no borders in Europe, so you can go from one country to another without ever being checked.

Europe has for the most part become the `Schengen state`. Access to one country allows access to all countries under the Schengen treaty.

Google and they shall find....

Thanks for that confirmation, Carib. That's what I thought too.

I've now tried contacting the Norwegian embassy in London to see if they can do anything, but received a firm "no" saying that as a Thai, my wife can only apply in Bangkok.

All this seems to be bearing out what I said in my OP, that Schengen visas are now becoming very difficult to get.

Any other thoughts on the idea of us invoking the EC directive and going to one of the Schengen borders with no visa, only the wife's passport and marriage certificate and me?

[phaethon]

Was your wife dealing with Norwegian Norwegian Embassy Staff or Thai Norwegian Embassy staff?

There have been several threads recently about people receiving poor, rude and downright obstructive service from Thai staff employed in (IIRC) UK and Aus Embassies/Consulates which were resolved only when a Embassy-native staffer got involved.

Of course your wife would have to rely on luck in getting a Norwegian native staffer with good Thai as well, as the above were resolved between native English speakers thus excluding intervention by overzealous Thai staff. Do your Norwegian friends have any other Norwgeian expat friends still in BKK who could go along with your wife and insist on dealing with a Norwegian staffer?

[alyx]

Was your wife dealing with Norwegian Norwegian Embassy Staff or Thai Norwegian Embassy staff?

There have been several threads recently about people receiving poor, rude and downright obstructive service from Thai staff employed in (IIRC) UK and Aus Embassies/Consulates which were resolved only when a Embassy-native staffer got involved.

Of course your wife would have to rely on luck in getting a Norwegian native staffer with good Thai as well, as the above were resolved between native English speakers thus excluding intervention by overzealous Thai staff. Do your Norwegian friends have any other Norwgeian expat friends still in BKK who could go along with your wife and insist on dealing with a Norwegian staffer?

Hey

As it has already been suggested go back to the French Consulate: I guess that you have at least a copy of the documents included in visa request for Norway.

If you are afraid your wife is not able to filll the visa form by herself address a message to this particular Consulate but in any case she can write in Thai (and you could help her with the answers using internet)

One thing though: documents have to be translated to French and you will have to hold a hotel reservation (I do understand you have got all the other necessary documents)

I guess that your wife hasn't left her passport with the Norwegian Consulate meaning that her request hasn't been formally registered therefore she will have no problems going to another country's Consulate.

[alyx]

Hey again

Just to let you know: Embassies do not deal with these matters, Consulate do

[ubonjoe]

Hey again

Just to let you know: Embassies do not deal with these matters, Consulate do

Partly correct.

An embassy normally will have a consular section that takes care of visas and other matters.

A consulate is a stand alone office that takes care of visas and etc.

[dmax]

Don't forget that apart from the "Schengen Visa" you can still apply for ordinary visitors

visa that are just valid for this country.

This might be less trouble.

That's an interesting suggestion, but I've never heard of an ordinary visitor's visa like that. Can you give more details? I thought for the Schengen States, it was a case of all or nothing.

maybe someone should answer his question,,,,can he fly to norway with his wife without a shengen visa,,as it says in the directive that spouce of eea national can travel as long as he accompanies her.....does anyone know???????????????????

[dmax]

hello sleepy john,,,,i dont think anyone here can give you an answer to your question but i know someone who can....why not pm the scouser or look him up at davis khan immagration law uk...he will tell you what to do...and wether you can travel without the shengen