What's Wrong With The New Phantom?

[kitjohnson]

Hi,

just wondered why so many people seem to be selling 'hardly used' Honda Phantom (fire edition). Is there something wrong with this model?

[thaicbr]

No Kit it's just that it's a "Phantom".

Crap bike for a lot of money.Or Maybe Honda was offering dealer incentives for registrations or maybe the Thai owners can not afford the payments or maybe its a crap bike.

[engrin]

I bought a Phantom and sold it 6 months later. Underpowered, but very comfortable and maneuverable.

I should ad that I bought a Super 4 and its A LOT better!

Edited June 12, 2009 by engrin

[katabeachbum]

Hi,

just wondered why so many people seem to be selling 'hardly used' Honda Phantom (fire edition). Is there something wrong with this model?

I bought a Phantom in 2003. Couldnt afford a real bigbike (or actually spend all my money on buying properties). Was a good alternative back then. Nouvo was too lazy, and Wave had to shift anyway. When Nouvo MX came in 2005, I got one. Sold the Phantom couple of months later

A Yammy Nouvo Elegance 135 cc is today similar in performance as Phantom, and seating position is better for my 180 cm.

Nothing wrong with Phantom. I just feel its silly to drive around on a chopperwannabe performing less than a scooter. Thinking about it, most of my friends have done the same. Sold their Phantoms and ride Yammy E, Airblade inj, Suzuki Hayate day to day locally.

Edited June 12, 2009 by katabeachbum

[BigBikeBKK]

No Kit it's just that it's a "Phantom".

Crap bike for a lot of money.

Well, not sure I'd agree that the Phantom is a "crap" bike and it's pretty cheap for Honda quality, but it certainly is woefully underpowered. As the saying goes- Phantoms are like chubby bar birls- built for comfort, not speed

The only other bikes I can think of in that "baby chopper class" are the Kawasaki Boss (even more underpowered!) or that big sloppy Platinum (Chinese?) chopper (forget the model name-they look good new but age very quickly and build quality seems terrible IMHO...)

I think now that there are much better bikes (performance-wise) like the D-Tracker, KLX, Ninja 250R and ER6 and Vulcan 900 available from Kawasaki at reasonable prices that a lot of guys are trading up to Kawasaki.

In the old days when big bikes were always overpriced and came with all the headaches with grey market imports it probably forced a lot of guys to 'settle' for the little Phantom.

Kawasaki has really changed the whole big bike game in Thailand with their introduction of fully legal warrantied big bikes at reasonable prices.

Happy Trails!

Tony

Edited June 12, 2009 by BigBikeBKK

[kitjohnson]

Thanks for all the input guys! I guess I just wasn't sure why people would buy it and sell it 6 months later. Didn't they take it for at test drive?

So for these Kawasaki bigger bikes, how much are you looking at (new)?

[BigBikeBKK]

I haven't priced the Kawasaki bikes lately and I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm way off.

I paid 139,000 Baht for my Ninja 250R but understand the price has gone up. I believe the 250ccc D-Tracker and KLX are closer to 150,000 Baht.

The Vulcan 900 is imported from Japan and sells in the high 4xx,000 Baht. (I think 470k?)

ER6n 650cc naked bike sells for 225,000 Baht

Imported Ninja ZX10R sells for 650,000 Baht

ER6f 650cc Ninja style fully faired bike with ABS will go on sale soon and price is promised to not exceed 280,000 Baht. We're guesstimating the actual price will be closer to 245-255k Baht.

Let the good times roll!

[HTWoodson]

The new Fire Editions are having mechanical problems, especially the last two model years. The rumor I heard was that Honda Thailand started using much cheaper parts in the last two year models and the bikes have been having much more trouble than the previous editions. Just hearsay of course, but I have a Phantom and that's what my Thai mechanic told me.

[HTWoodson]

No Kit it's just that it's a "Phantom".

Crap bike for a lot of money.Or Maybe Honda was offering dealer incentives for registrations or maybe the Thai owners can not afford the payments or maybe its a crap bike.

Absolute nonsense. The Phantom is a fine bike, it's well made and reliable, very comfortable, and cheap as chips. What are you talking about "a lot of money"? You can buy a used one in great condition for 50-60 thousand baht, less than many new scooters. Spare parts are incredibly affordable and every Thai mechanic on every street corner knows how to break the bike down.

The only complaints you can level against the Phantom are that the new Fire Edition is not as reliable as the older models, and the 200cc engine is way too small. The engine size is a product of the time when it was designed and the old Thai regulations. I own 3 motorcycles, and I wouldn't use the Phantom for long trips or riding in the hills, but for cruising down to the movies or going to breakfast in town it's a great little bike. Preferable to my larger bike that is too big and cumbersome to ride around in traffic comfortably.

If you plan to use it as a town bike, the Phantom is a great little bike. Small enough to weave through traffic and park easily in the motorcycle corrals. If you want to go touring though, buy something bigger.

[rixalex]

What are you talking about "a lot of money"? You can buy a used one in great condition for 50-60 thousand baht, less than many new scooters.

Many new scooters? I don't know of many above 60k, do you?

[HTWoodson]

What are you talking about "a lot of money"? You can buy a used one in great condition for 50-60 thousand baht, less than many new scooters.

Many new scooters? I don't know of many above 60k, do you?

Yamaha Nouvo (sp?) off the top of my head, and there are others I'm sure. Vespas in good condition go for 60+ regularly on the classifieds. Yea, "many" scooters. Not used Honda Dreams of course, but some of the new scooters on the market are definitely in the same price bracket as used Phantoms. Cruise through the Yamaha dealership some day when you have time to kill and you'll see some pretty expensive scooters.

Edited June 12, 2009 by HTWoodson

[BigBikeBKK]

You wanna pricey scooter? How about a Yammie T-max- only 550,000 Baht!

Who the hel_l buys these things?!

[thaicbr]

Ht. It was a tongue in cheek comment. What i meant was it is underpowered. overpriced new (83,000b is overpriced) and the Nouvo is 52,000 new with warranty and a more advanced engine. also if you look at the build quality of recent bikes then good old Honda are certainly building down. The Chinese jonshin 125 is better built.

[HTWoodson]

Ht. It was a tongue in cheek comment. What i meant was it is underpowered. overpriced new (83,000b is overpriced) and the Nouvo is 52,000 new with warranty and a more advanced engine. also if you look at the build quality of recent bikes then good old Honda are certainly building down. The Chinese jonshin 125 is better built.

My bad. And yea, you're right, 83,000 is overpriced. They haven't improved the Phantom in years except for changing the paint and moving the ignition up to the handlebars, but they keep jacking the price up every year.

Sorry for sounding so hostile in that earlier post, it was unintentional. I was hungry and my girlfriend won't stop complaining.

Edited June 12, 2009 by HTWoodson

[thaicbr]

Eat the girlfriend's............................... best of both worlds then :D :D

[Richie1971]

No Kit it's just that it's a "Phantom".

Crap bike for a lot of money.

Well, not sure I'd agree that the Phantom is a "crap" bike and it's pretty cheap for Honda quality, but it certainly is woefully underpowered. As the saying goes- Phantoms are like chubby bar birls- built for comfort, not speed :D :D

The only other bikes I can think of in that "baby chopper class" are the Kawasaki Boss (even more underpowered!) or that big sloppy Platinum (Chinese?) chopper (forget the model name-they look good new but age very quickly and build quality seems terrible IMHO...)

I think now that there are much better bikes (performance-wise) like the D-Tracker, KLX, Ninja 250R and ER6 and Vulcan 900 available from Kawasaki at reasonable prices that a lot of guys are trading up to Kawasaki.

In the old days when big bikes were always overpriced and came with all the headaches with grey market imports it probably forced a lot of guys to 'settle' for the little Phantom.

Kawasaki has really changed the whole big bike game in Thailand with their introduction of fully legal warrantied big bikes at reasonable prices.

Happy Trails!

Tony

[rixalex]

What are you talking about "a lot of money"? You can buy a used one in great condition for 50-60 thousand baht, less than many new scooters.

Many new scooters? I don't know of many above 60k, do you?

Yamaha Nouvo (sp?) off the top of my head, and there are others I'm sure. Vespas in good condition go for 60+ regularly on the classifieds. Yea, "many" scooters.

Nouvo Elegance i thought was 50k up. And you said many new scooters, so what have classic Vespas got to do with it?

Vast, vast majority of new scooters in Thailand are sold for around 50k or less. Any above 60k are in the extreme minority.

So it would have been accurate to say that you can buy a used Phantom for the same price as a new scooter, but to say that it would be cheaper i think would be unlikely.

[HTWoodson]

Nouvo Elegance i thought was 50k up. And you said many new scooters, so blah blah blah....

Zzzzzz....

[rixalex]

Nouvo Elegance i thought was 50k up. And you said many new scooters, so blah blah blah....

Zzzzzz....

That's gracious of you mate.

[PoorSucker]

Have a old Phantom custom and a new Fire edition.

They are about the same, the old one makes more noise and I have fitted it with many extras.

For some more power I have the CB400.

The phantom is a great bike for short trips.

Perfect in city traffic.

I bought the new phantom because the former owner was moving (falang) and I got a sweet price.

Edited June 13, 2009 by PoorSucker

[HTWoodson]

Nouvo Elegance i thought was 50k up. And you said many new scooters, so blah blah blah....

Zzzzzz....

That's gracious of you mate.

All right, my apologies then, but we are getting off topic. Let's not hijack the post. I'll concede to you that there are few scooters priced higher than the Phantom.

[rixalex]

Nouvo Elegance i thought was 50k up. And you said many new scooters, so blah blah blah....

Zzzzzz....

That's gracious of you mate.

All right, my apologies then, but we are getting off topic. Let's not hijack the post. I'll concede to you that there are few scooters priced higher than the Phantom.

That's gracious of you mate. (sarcasm removed)

Wasn't deliberately nick-picking - just thought your post was a little mis-leading.

You are right, let's move on now.

[Freddie_fly]

I went down from a Yamaha Virago 750 to a Phantom, varied reasons but mainly I was getting the run around on getting the Virago registered properly (and I am sure many of you know that story). I had a Boss for a while and actually preferred the gearing in that over the phantom, but I dont think there is anything wrong with the phantom at all. I would love to get a Kawasaki 900 custom or classic, I think they are overpriced considering what the ER6N came in at but to be honest with the way things are economically right now its off the list. When oil goes over 85/90 again then all my bonuses will be back so I will slip it past the wifey then

cheers

Freddie

[HTWoodson]

The Phantom has it's place. In the US or Europe I wouldn't be caught dead riding one, but TIT, and it does make some sense here in a bizarre kind of Thai way. I think it's strongest point is how cheap maintenance and parts are, and how easy it is to find mechanics that are familiar with it. If you have the money to buy a bigger bike and go to a specialized mechanic, then by all means, but if you just want a cheap town bike with a cruiser look that is easily serviceable then Phantom at least deserves consideration. It's definitely not for everyone but it deserves a look.

The Phantom's days are numbered though IMO. With the Asian FTA on the horizon and bigger bikes becoming much cheaper, I don't think we'll see the Phantom around much longer.

[thedi]

I have a Yamaha Royal Star, 1300cc, 350 kg which is fine for touring. But to go to the marked or to the fields I take my Kawasaki Boss: 170cc, 130 kg, easy to handle even if there is no road. Each bike has its uses. Don't buy a Phantom if you what you dream of is a HD!

Regards

Thedi

[skipvice]

I use my Phantom to get to and from the Golf course, I love it. The one draw back is its to heavy for the size engine. if it was a 250cc it would be perfect for Thailand.

[Nip]

Hi,

just wondered why so many people seem to be selling 'hardly used' Honda Phantom (fire edition). Is there something wrong with this model?

I have had my Phantom for 8 years now and in that time I have not had a single problem... I just use it to go to the gym every day and perhaps the odd time to go to the local supermarket. Recently I brought it to a local Motor Bike shop who specialises in customising bikes and I asked the head honcho about the possibility of tweaking the bike to eek out a little more power. The solution he suggested was to bore it out from 200 cc to 250 cc and the difference I have to say is considerable! Sounds harsher and the torque has really improved. The cost was 5000 Baht!

[topdogdk]

I can only say, that I am happy with my 2 year old Kawa Boss.

Had a few modifications done to it (incl. a tune-up).

Great, easy town-bike, but can do 140kph on the Sukhumwit.

Don´t need more, as it wpould most likely get me killed very soon.

[katabeachbum]

Hi,

just wondered why so many people seem to be selling 'hardly used' Honda Phantom (fire edition). Is there something wrong with this model?

I have had my Phantom for 8 years now and in that time I have not had a single problem... I just use it to go to the gym every day and perhaps the odd time to go to the local supermarket. Recently I brought it to a local Motor Bike shop who specialises in customising bikes and I asked the head honcho about the possibility of tweaking the bike to eek out a little more power. The solution he suggested was to bore it out from 200 cc to 250 cc and the difference I have to say is considerable! Sounds harsher and the torque has really improved. The cost was 5000 Baht!

Now you have some really thin and flexible cylinderwalls for an aircooled engine.

[kitjohnson]

The new Fire Editions are having mechanical problems, especially the last two model years. The rumor I heard was that Honda Thailand started using much cheaper parts in the last two year models and the bikes have been having much more trouble than the previous editions. Just hearsay of course, but I have a Phantom and that's what my Thai mechanic told me.

Should I believe this? Would this explain why people keep selling them after only a year or so? Or is it the small engine size : weight of bike ratio?

If it's true, I would be better-off looking for a second-hand edition about 3 years old, before the fire edition came out.