Thai-french Group To Tackle Bangkok Traffic Jams

[george]

Thai-French exchange to tackle traffic jams

Paris model to be applied to Bangkok

BANGKOK: -- The French National Institute for Transport and Safety Research (Inrets) has teamed up with Thailand's Software Industry Promotion Agency (Sipa) to exchange knowledge on traffic management.

This will open opportunities for local software houses to learn from international large-scale software architecture.

The cooperation of both organisations will allow Thai software companies to acquire the algorithm software of traffic management from Inrets so that they can further develop the program and carry out knowledge-based modelling design, according to Sipa president Dr Rungruang Limchoopatipa.

Initially, Bangkok Metropolitan Administration (BMA) will partner Sipa and BMA representatives will join a training course staged by experts from Inrets.

Meanwhile, Sipa will invite other agencies involved with traffic, transport and logistics to join the project, Rungruang said.

France is keen on engineering integration and Inrets has implemented traffic management technology of traffic management in Paris since 1986.

According to Inrets director Dr Habib Haj-Salem, the co-research training will encompass simulation tools, traffic management and traffic impact evaluation.

Bangkok, similarly to Paris in the past, suffers from terrible traffic jams. The traffic management system developed by Inrets can reduce congestion in urban areas, with the problem having lessened in Paris since the system was implemented in 1994. It is hoped a similar improvement can be seen in Bangkok.

Dr Haj-Salem noted that while Thai developers can learn about the traffic management algorithm from France, the French team can in turn learn from the challenges presented by Bangkok, which is notorious for it traffic congestion and pollution.

France and Thailand share population similarities, with 60-65 million people in each country and around 10-12 million in each capital city.

In the past, Inrets has signed an MoU with King Mongkut Institute of Technology Thonburi for conducting research, but this is the first international cooperation between Inrets and the Thai government.

Based on the co-research training, Inrets will bring knowhow of software algorithm to Thai software developers, who will have a chance to learn both application and modelling design.

Association of Thai Software Industry (ATSI) president Somkiat Ungaree said that the technology transfer between France and Thailand expose both countries' software developers to large scale architecture with a totally different approach from the traditional methods that they have experienced.

"The Thai software firms have tended to look from inside-out and make use of existing knowledge, but this new approach will allow us to learn in an outside-in fashion from the world-class experts", said Somkiat, adding that cloud computing will be another major issue that ATSI would discuss with the French experts.

Somkiat added that ATSI would focus on how this exchange would benefit the whole country. It would take into account the entire eco-system, not just the traffic management, he said, as the logistics of transportation can be applied to other concerns that rely on IT.

Thai Animation and Computer Graphics Association president Lak Taechawanchai noted that the advantage of the traffic management engine is its exact accuracy, allowing developers to apply the program to animated simulations and navigation.

He said a practical approach would be to apply animated simulations to run on mobile phones, especially as the iPhone - one of the platforms that can run such animations - has become so popular in Thailand.

-- Bangkok Post 2009-07-29

[Losangels]

I'm surprised the traffic police wasn't invited.

Maybe there were but were too busy

[delmersomsri]

There is nothing you can do to eliminate traffic congestion here in Bangkok. There are just too many drivers(poor ones at best). Might be more helpful if the sidewalks were widened to accommodate more motorcycles and bike riders. That's their preferred avenue of choice . What about the pedestrians? &^*%$#

All fun aside I believe:

• Traffic light timing re-adjustment study should be done. I saw one intersection with 221 seconds(WHOW)
  
• Assigned lane for motorcycles,bicycles,slow moving whatever(heavy violation fines.BIB )
  
• Assigned lane for heavy trucks(Again BIB )
  
• Driver's education
  

Drive carefully!

[majorpacman]

Thailand started out from ancient siam, the old and new didn't layout the city streets that well. You have problems of no parking in the streets, unless at a super @ss malls or something. Besides, car you have little scooter motorcycles zipping adding to the traffic jams. Every time someone brakes will equal to traffic and other things. You have pot holes size of frying pan or larger. YOu got trucks that over load it weight limits damaging the streets. The cops or gov doesn't enforce the weight limits.

One of these day, you walk or drive a car, scooter and you sink into the pot holes. The software better add all that in it, corruption, pot holes, scooters, street vendors, etc

You got people violate the traffic law, 4 lanes high way becomes, 6 lanes during traffic....

The gov really need starts with the basic before jumping into the traffic software solution

Edited July 29, 2009 by majorpacman

[njpski]

I was hoping the french model would have been Carla Bruni

[Latindancer]

During the late 1980s the traffic lights used to be red for a really long time. Plenty of time for traffic to bank up and clog up intersections further back. They're a little better now, but not as short as in other countries.

Shorter intervals mimic actual traffic flow.

[phetaroi]

There is nothing you can do to eliminate traffic congestion here in Bangkok. There are just too many drivers(poor ones at best). Might be more helpful if the sidewalks were widened to accommodate more motorcycles and bike riders. That's their preferred avenue of choice . What about the pedestrians? &^*%$#

All fun aside I believe:

• Traffic light timing re-adjustment study should be done. I saw one intersection with 221 seconds(WHOW)
  
• Assigned lane for motorcycles,bicycles,slow moving whatever(heavy violation fines.BIB )
  
• Assigned lane for heavy trucks(Again BIB )
  
• Driver's education
  

Drive carefully!

I'm not so sure Thai drivers are "poor". I see very few dents as I move around the city. I think it's just a completely different style of driving.

I do agree with you about the cyclists. Crazy fools. Yesterday one made us all scramble on the sidewalk, even though we were on the left side of the road...he could have moved a yard over and been in the street.

Traffic light timing...yes, probably. Another problem is how far out of the way one must sometimes go because of no left turn. To go to where I am staying on Phetburi from Paragon, you have to go waaaaaaaaay out of the way due to no left turn. That puts any one vehicle on the road for about 5 times as long as if you could turn left.

I would vote for motorcycles to have to obey all traffic laws just as do cars. No weaving in and out of lanes or around cars, no sidewalks, no driving on the wrong side of the street.

[roiethome]

Traffic software is only part of the issue.

I remember when this was done in the past, late 90's when a well respected traffic management company from Wales installed co-ordination software linking the lights in sequence on the same stretch of road. The only error they made was to install over ride buttons in all the little police huts, and on the first day they completely messed up the sequencing, the traffic jam was worse than normal, and the program was dropped on the first day. Police education is vital!

Secondly, almost every developed capital city has around 11% of it's surface area as roads, bangkok is nearer 7%, until this is corrected, the jams will stay part of the city culture

[rgs2001uk]

Traffic software is only part of the issue.

I remember when this was done in the past, late 90's when a well respected traffic management company from Wales installed co-ordination software linking the lights in sequence on the same stretch of road. The only error they made was to install over ride buttons in all the little police huts, and on the first day they completely messed up the sequencing, the traffic jam was worse than normal, and the program was dropped on the first day. Police education is vital!

Secondly, almost every developed capital city has around 11% of it's surface area as roads, bangkok is nearer 7%, until this is corrected, the jams will stay part of the city culture

Would that be the same police that allow certain establishments to block off a whole lane of road, to be used as a car park for the busniess in question?

Surprised no one has yet mentioned taxis, if I drove like them in any other country I would be arrested for kerb crawling.

Way too many on the roads watch the way they just park up and block off an entire lane, drive slowly past bus stops or hover outside dept stores.

Lets not forget the drivers that when waiting leave a 15 foot gap from the car in front, just so they can be in the shade and protect their lily white skin tone.

You have to laugh.

[Killroy]

Last time I was in Paris (2007)then traffic was bad,didn't see any changes sice I was there the first time 95...

I don't think any software will sort out the traffic in Bkk,you need to do better infrastructure and educate dirvers and the police too.

Mostly I see the police standing at the roadside waving for everybody to move when the traffic is in a jam,or talking with each other..

[barky]

This won't work. People forget where they are in the world.

It is just a brain child of some go-getter in government that has come up with a way to improve his lot, make him look good, get free travel to France, opportunity for family business to install equipment (that will fall into dis-repair and dis-use).

And of course the real spanner in the works is the cops because it will take away one of the main reasons that they use to justify their collective, worthless existence.

The resistance to change will be just far to great on all the players, including the drivers, who it's designed to help.

And as for pedestrians, oh please....., they do not even rate a mention or a thought by anybody. The mindset is, only the plebs and low life walk.

A far better idea would be to increase the number of mannequin cops they have standing around thesedays as I am certain they are far more useful than the human kind

Edited July 29, 2009 by barky

[morphy]

What a waste of money the way Thailand's going Bangkok will be empty soon!!!!

should be looking at Cambodia and Vietnam!!!!!

good bye Thailand!!!!!

[LancasterBFC]

What a waste of money the way Thailand's going Bangkok will be empty soon!!!!

should be looking at Cambodia and Vietnam!!!!!

good bye Thailand!!!!!

Difference is that Paris has a good, integrated public transport system right the way out to the suburbs, which is more affordable and more convenient than driving. That might be a good start

[tw25rw]

Make better use of the toll roads by lowering or dropping the toll, at least at certain times of day. Knock through some of the dead end sois to take some of the load. Modernise the bus system and encourage people to use it. Have some kind of park and ride system.

[Old Man River]

In the mid 1990's, the Thai government hired a European firm to design and implement a software program that controlled the traffic system, so that all was synchronized. This was a system that had worked well in other countries and the system did seem to work well in Bangkok. However, after one week the whole, high priced system was scrapped and never heard from again.

The rumor was that because the system worked so well, it would displace the vast majority of traffic cops, especially those that sit at major intersections and decide when to turn lights green. Since then, we have seen some intersections with lights showing how long the light will remain red until turning green, but once you turn a corner, you are back to hit and miss with traffic flow.

I don't know what the Parisian system is, but unless it is fully agreed with by the police it too will fail.

[Old Man River]

Traffic software is only part of the issue.

I remember when this was done in the past, late 90's when a well respected traffic management company from Wales installed co-ordination software linking the lights in sequence on the same stretch of road. The only error they made was to install over ride buttons in all the little police huts, and on the first day they completely messed up the sequencing, the traffic jam was worse than normal, and the program was dropped on the first day. Police education is vital!

Secondly, almost every developed capital city has around 11% of it's surface area as roads, bangkok is nearer 7%, until this is corrected, the jams will stay part of the city culture

I am just seeing your post now, hence my post above on the same thing.

I don't recall the traffic getting worse when the system was implemented, but back in those days it was so bad it couldn't get any worse. Anyway, we both know that the policed screwed the whole thing up (the over ride buttons). I just don't believe it was a lack of police education, but rather one of protecting their jobs. If the problem was just education, then the system could have been restarted the next day and the police instructed not to push the buttons.

Going forward, unless the traffic police know these systems won't replace them, they will continue to screw up any system put in place, regardless of what it is or how much it costs.

I agree on the lack of roads, but I can't think of anyway this can be fixed, unless all government buildings are moved to another satellite city. Actually, this has been discussed before, but the idea gets constantly scrapped.

[toptuan]

I've driven both places.

IMHO, it's not a matter of roads, lanes, quantity of cars, or software.

It's a different driving culture and different enforcement culture.

People will have to be changed first. No amount of traffic lights controlled by software will dent that challenge.

[churchill]

Anyone tried to drive around the Etoile in Paris ?- In bangkok there would be bodies everywhere .

[zzaa09]

About 100 years too late. Such a mess will never be resolved.

[robblok]

I would vote for motorcycles to have to obey all traffic laws just as do cars. No weaving in and out of lanes or around cars, no sidewalks, no driving on the wrong side of the street.

I vote for cars leaving enough space between them so motorcycles can pas and go on when all cars stand still. The problem is selfish car drivers. Motorcycles dont have to wait if the cars keep enough space.

Motorcycles take in less space

[skettios]

What a waste of money the way Thailand's going Bangkok will be empty soon!!!!

should be looking at Cambodia and Vietnam!!!!!

good bye Thailand!!!!!

See you later!

[toptuan]

What a waste of money the way Thailand's going Bangkok will be empty soon!!!!

should be looking at Cambodia and Vietnam!!!!!

good bye Thailand!!!!!

And you think you'll enjoy the traffic more in Cambodia's capital city and Vietnam's two major cities?

I dare say this lil' chicken ain't traveled far from the hen-house....

[surface]

Does the software account for elephants being walked across dark 4 lane roads at 10PM? Almost killed us the other day if the passenger didn't scream "Elephant!".

[Lancashirelad]

Hurray, the Thais actually accepting that another country might actually know more than they do about something & realising that it is not such a loss of face to ask for help.

If Thailand wants to make progress towards moving into the 1st world, they are going to need to do this a lot more with many other issues.

With the greatest of respect, but i'd hazard a guess many of the dissenters above know much about traffic management.

What would reduce the pollution a lot would be to make it as for many years in Switzerland, where it is law that if you are stationary for more than a few seconds, you must switch off the enngine.

Some new cars in England now do this automatically.

Edited August 3, 2009 by Lancashirelad

[thaihome]

Make better use of the toll roads by lowering or dropping the toll, at least at certain times of day. Knock through some of the dead end sois to take some of the load. Modernise the bus system and encourage people to use it. Have some kind of park and ride system.

The toll roads are gridlocked at rush hour already; lowering tolls would only make them worse. There already is a park and ride system for the MRT and to a lesser extent the BTS. The existing buses, which are quite frequent already, are packed to standing room only at rush hour now.

The problem is Bangkok is a huge geographical area and millions of people must go many kilometers every day to work and back. Most Bangkokians spend upwards of an hours or more every day getting to work. Most of you have only experience the inner city issues at Sukhumvit or Silom/Sathorn, out in the suburbs it can be even worse.

There are just too many people, to far distances, and not enough roads to hold them all. Anyone ever been to the greater LA area at rush hour? Basically the same problem and LA has had it for 50 years now and has never come close to solving it.

TH

[bkkjames]

Hurray, the Thais actually accepting that another country might actually know more than they do about something & realising that it is not such a loss of face to ask for help.

If Thailand wants to make progress towards moving into the 1st world, they are going to need to do this a lot more with many other issues.

With the greatest of respect, but i'd hazard a guess many of the dissenters above know much about traffic management.

What would reduce the pollution a lot would be to make it as for many years in Switzerland, where it is law that if you are stationary for more than a few seconds, you must switch off the enngine.

Some new cars in England now do this automatically.

While I admire the green-ness of this initiative in Switzerland, can you imagine the locals sitting on Sathorn or Silom stuck in a jam for an hour and turning off their air-cons, DVDs??? Stick to cheese and chocolates.

Unfortunately, for most here (Bangkok), cars are more of status item than a necessity. Nothing says "Hey look at me, I am hiso" more than talking through your blue-tooth while sitting in traffic for an 1.5 hours each way everyday on your way to your 30 baht noodle-shop at 830pm. The recent upswing in tinted windows is causing a dilem though - can't gain much face in your City if nobody can see it. What do I do - "Risk getting a tan on my face just to gain face"?

The only better would be to get them a car that does all the driving so they can sleep to and from work / shopping at Siam.

[thaihome]

...Unfortunately, for most here (Bangkok), cars are more of status item than a necessity. Nothing says "Hey look at me, I am hiso" more than talking through your blue-tooth while sitting in traffic for an 1.5 hours each way everyday on your way to your 30 baht noodle-shop at 830pm. The recent upswing in tinted windows is causing a dilem though - can't gain much face in your City if nobody can see it. What do I do - "Risk getting a tan on my face just to gain face"?

The only better would be to get them a car that does all the driving so they can sleep to and from work / shopping at Siam.

Your lack of knowledge of middle class people (and disrepect for Thai people in general) that live in the suburbs and drive into the CBD every day is almost breathtaking. Having a car is not a status symbol, it is a necessity dictated by their jobs, their children’s schools, and the geography of Bangkok. Just like every other person living in a major city in every country in the world.

TH

[bkkjames]

...Unfortunately, for most here (Bangkok), cars are more of status item than a necessity. Nothing says "Hey look at me, I am hiso" more than talking through your blue-tooth while sitting in traffic for an 1.5 hours each way everyday on your way to your 30 baht noodle-shop at 830pm. The recent upswing in tinted windows is causing a dilem though - can't gain much face in your City if nobody can see it. What do I do - "Risk getting a tan on my face just to gain face"?

The only better would be to get them a car that does all the driving so they can sleep to and from work / shopping at Siam.

Your lack of knowledge of middle class people (and disrepect for Thai people in general) that live in the suburbs and drive into the CBD every day is almost breathtaking. Having a car is not a status symbol, it is a necessity dictated by their jobs, their children’s schools, and the geography of Bangkok. Just like every other person living in a major city in every country in the world.

TH

Thanks TH. Of course nobody does what I suggest. And not just locals by the way, I know a few farangs who live within 5-10 min walk of the BTS and could fly into work via it, yet instead choose to sit in the traffic and complain about it whenever the opportunity arises.

[kuma]

Obviously you are a driver here

bang on analysis, they can study and implement all they want - it is those factors you mention that screw up traffic and no system will fix it.

street vendors - i love them and support their efforts to make a living but they need to get their stalls out between 10:00 and 15:00 or after 20:00 they contribute hugely to the problem, not to mention all the other factors you brought up

Thailand started out from ancient siam, the old and new didn't layout the city streets that well. You have problems of no parking in the streets, unless at a super @ss malls or something. Besides, car you have little scooter motorcycles zipping adding to the traffic jams. Every time someone brakes will equal to traffic and other things. You have pot holes size of frying pan or larger. YOu got trucks that over load it weight limits damaging the streets. The cops or gov doesn't enforce the weight limits.

One of these day, you walk or drive a car, scooter and you sink into the pot holes. The software better add all that in it, corruption, pot holes, scooters, street vendors, etc

You got people violate the traffic law, 4 lanes high way becomes, 6 lanes during traffic....

The gov really need starts with the basic before jumping into the traffic software solution

[remil]

There is nothing you can do to eliminate traffic congestion here in Bangkok. There are just too many drivers(poor ones at best). Might be more helpful if the sidewalks were widened to accommodate more motorcycles and bike riders. That's their preferred avenue of choice . What about the pedestrians? &^*%$#

All fun aside I believe:

• Traffic light timing re-adjustment study should be done. I saw one intersection with 221 seconds(WHOW)
  
• Assigned lane for motorcycles,bicycles,slow moving whatever(heavy violation fines.BIB )
  
• Assigned lane for heavy trucks(Again BIB )
  
• Driver's education
  

Drive carefully!

I'm not so sure Thai drivers are "poor". I see very few dents as I move around the city. I think it's just a completely different style of driving.

I do agree with you about the cyclists. Crazy fools. Yesterday one made us all scramble on the sidewalk, even though we were on the left side of the road...he could have moved a yard over and been in the street.

Traffic light timing...yes, probably. Another problem is how far out of the way one must sometimes go because of no left turn. To go to where I am staying on Phetburi from Paragon, you have to go waaaaaaaaay out of the way due to no left turn. That puts any one vehicle on the road for about 5 times as long as if you could turn left.

I would vote for motorcycles to have to obey all traffic laws just as do cars. No weaving in and out of lanes or around cars, no sidewalks, no driving on the wrong side of the street.

Yeah I agree with the driving on the wrong side of the street but not the weaving around cars. I drive a bike and it would cause so so much more traffic if bikes were to wait beind cars in a row just like cars. YOU KNOW HOW MANY BIKE THERE ARE IN BANGKOK!! It would double the chaos. And cars hardly obey traffic laws here so let not exagerate. actually its very selfish driving here. doin U turns in places that shouldnt be done. Motorcycle dont cause traffic cars do. Motorbike are a lot smaller than cars if you haven t noticed buddy. Not to mention you know how hot it gets just sitting on a motorbike in bangkok traffic for 1 hour??? It nice having the AC on in the car but not all of us can afford it.

The main problem is too many taxis!!!! half of them are empty and they are always driving slow to pick up customers. They need to regulate the amounts. they are blocking the roads not to mention break the law more than any other people but cops dont care cause they get paid off.

They pay the cop to sit on the side of the road. ALL IN ALL CORRUPTION IS THE CAUSE OF TRAFFIC!!! they need to change the whole police force and put very strict regulations. Not to mention give the cops a pay rise so they might not be as corrupted. A police officer in Australia makes like 100000 $ a year. Any cop caught being corrupted should be thrown in jail!!!

Thats my thoughts after 13 years in bangkok.