Timeshare Owners

[pagallim]

Refer to prvious topic

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Time-Share-Touts-t286431.html

Obviously, not really possible to canvas people in the streets about their timeshare purchases, however, let's see what kind of response we get from this post. I think most people know that it must be reasonably lucrative for you, otherwise you wouldn't be doing it. Probably, for most tourists, you're activities are an acknowledged nuisance. For those of us who are resident, you're a blight on the landscape, and the way you do business an embarrassment. You're right about the 'young happy people', the same ones who move on and leave the rest of us to live with their reputation. Please, don't put all of the posters in the 'old miserable fogeys' category. Many of us live lives you probably could only dream about, and have jobs which take us all over the world, well paid, and experiences gained that you wouldn't believe. Just because we choose to live in Phuket, doesn't mark us with 'past sell by date' stickers.

[chuppachops]

Obviously, not really possible to canvas people in the streets about their timeshare purchases, however, let's see what kind of response we get from this post. I think most people know that it must be reasonably lucrative for you, otherwise you wouldn't be doing it. Probably, for most tourists, you're activities are an acknowledged nuisance. For those of us who are resident, you're a blight on the landscape, and the way you do business an embarrassment. You're right about the 'young happy people', the same ones who move on and leave the rest of us to live with their reputation. Please, don't put all of the posters in the 'old miserable fogeys' category. Many of us live lives you probably could only dream about, and have jobs which take us all over the world, well paid, and experiences gained that you wouldn't believe. Just because we choose to live in Phuket, doesn't mark us with 'past sell by date' stickers.

I dont believe i said anything about the posters being miserable old fogeys mate, if you read it properly i said its a job for young happy people not miserable old fogeys. So please dont say that.

I am a resident here and have been for many years.

I dont think the correct people you would need to ask if they are happy with their timeshares would be reading this, as it is an expat forum. Theres no need to make another thread about this.

As i talk to people on the street they say ah no mate we joined 4 years ago.. so its not for us, as i talk to them i ask them if they are happy with it.. most of them say yes they are.

[loubrockbank]

pagallim - dont you think its rather hypocritical of you to slam chuppachopps for using the term miserable fogeys, and asking him not to put all of you in the same category, when u state that you live a life he and maybe other OPCs could only dream of???

You dont know the poster, some OPCs have experienced alot too, and have travelled allover the world, this shouldnt be about who has the biggest and flashiest life, but it seems you have made it that way. The OPC may have a fantastic life and Im sure he does, and works very hard the RIGHT way.

You dont know the way this particular OPC works or pitches, I am NOT saying all OPCs are perfect I know or a fact some of them are full of cr** and dont do their job properly, hence giving a bad name to the job.

As for being a blight on your landscape - how about all the other 'blights' in the country? How about all the big gas guzzling 4x4s that have an actual negative impact on the world jeez theres just so many other things to get on your high horse about, that would make much more interesting reading.

I just dont see how you can post a new topic based on assuming things about people when that is exactly what you have done.

[pagallim]

I dont believe i said anything about the posters being miserable old fogeys mate, if you read it properly i said its a job for young happy people not miserable old fogeys. So please dont say that.

I am a resident here and have been for many years.

I dont think the correct people you would need to ask if they are happy with their timeshares would be reading this, as it is an expat forum. Theres no need to make another thread about this.

As i talk to people on the street they say ah no mate we joined 4 years ago.. so its not for us, as i talk to them i ask them if they are happy with it.. most of them say yes they are.

My apologies for any misinterpretation of the 'old fogeys' comment. I lived in Spain for 10 years before coming to Thailand, and my experience of both Spain, Thailand (and a host of other countries I've lived and worked over the years) is that the people who are most likely to try and gain profit from expats, are other expats. The ones who make a living from taking a commission from 'recommendations' etc. I always cringe when I see or experience that kind of ploy, and only feel sad for the people who're reduced to making a living in that way, as well as a degree of pity for the people who think because (in a foreign country) someone speaks the same language as them, they're to be trusted. Obviously my opinion only, and I'm sure that you'll differ.

[pagallim]

pagallim - dont you think its rather hypocritical of you to slam chuppachopps for using the term miserable fogeys, and asking him not to put all of you in the same category, when u state that you live a life he and maybe other OPCs could only dream of???

You dont know the poster, some OPCs have experienced alot too, and have travelled allover the world, this shouldnt be about who has the biggest and flashiest life, but it seems you have made it that way. The OPC may have a fantastic life and Im sure he does, and works very hard the RIGHT way.

You dont know the way this particular OPC works or pitches, I am NOT saying all OPCs are perfect I know or a fact some of them are full of cr** and dont do their job properly, hence giving a bad name to the job.

As for being a blight on your landscape - how about all the other 'blights' in the country? How about all the big gas guzzling 4x4s that have an actual negative impact on the world jeez theres just so many other things to get on your high horse about, that would make much more interesting reading.

I just dont see how you can post a new topic based on assuming things about people when that is exactly what you have done.

Not high horse, and don't really want to broaden the debate (because that's all it is) into the merits of vehicle choice or lifestyle. The purpose of starting another post was to expand the response to how people feel about their choice of 'timeshare' purchases. I think most would accept that some OPC's are genuine, however you do point out that some of them are 'full of cr**'. These are the ones that give your chosen livelihood a bad name, and maybe the solution is in self policing, and adoption of standards and code of practice that removes the stigma. Accept the comments and criticism, and maybe ask yourselves 'what can we do to change people's perception', and maybe build some respect.

[loubrockbank]

i agree

[DrDave]

The problem I have with the timeshare touts is not so much their tactics, but the fact that they're trying to lure people into what, for most of their "customers" is a bad financial investment. Surely the touts know this, and certainly their bosses do, as evidenced by the pressure put on the people they lure in to make a purchase without allowing them time for due diligence and performing a financial analysis or investigating alternatives.

While the value of the real estate underlying the timeshare normally increases over time, the value of a timeshare normally decreases. The secondary market for timeshares is more comparable to the market for second hand cars than it is for real estate.

I've always suspected that timeshare operators are making huge profits at the expense of unsuspecting tourists who are pressured into buying "on the spot". Looking at available timeshares on the secondary market in Phuket, the following example is indicative of a typical timeshare resale in a major west coast resort:

Secondary Market example - Studio unit at a major central west coast resort:

Resale price for 1 period (1 week/year): 270,000 baht. ($8,000 USD)

Total of All Weeks for a Single Unit: 270,000 baht/period * 52 periods = 14.04 million baht. ($420,000 USD)

Annual maintenance fees per unit/period: 8,000 baht ($238 USD)

Total of All Weeks for a Single Unit: 8,000 baht/period * 52 periods = 416,000 baht ($12,400 USD)

Assuming that these studios are about 50 square meters in size, then the implied "value" of the unit is 14.04 million baht / 50 square meters, or a whopping 280,800 baht per square meter. Most high-end condominiums on the island price out at around 70,000 to 80,000 baht/square meter. Additionally, the operator is collecting 34,700 baht/month, or almost 700 baht per square meter, per month. This is about 10-15 times the rate levied for luxury condominiums on the island that are not operated as timeshares.

Now, assuming that timeshares in the secondary market (as above) are selling for less than those bought directly from the timeshare operator, the profits are even bigger.

These tourists that are lured in by the touts and subsequently pressured to buy, probably wouldn't if they had the opportunity to do even a cursory analysis, as above. I won't argue the fact that there will always be those "customers" who aren't concerned or bothered by the fact that the timeshare operator is making huge profits at their expense, but I will argue that most people, given the facts (or the opportunity to perform due diligence), would see that this is an unwise investment. I don't think I'd be able to sleep at night, knowing that I was trying to sell something to people that for many, is not in their best interests. Kind of reminds me of the mortgage brokers that were writing and re-packaging sub-prime mortgages, and we all know what resulted from that.

[geriatrickid]

some OPCs have experienced alot too, and have travelled allover the world, this shouldnt be about who has the biggest and flashiest life, but it seems you have made it that way. The OPC may have a fantastic life and Im sure he does, and works very hard the RIGHT way.

I'm sure that experience probably involved being on the wrong side of the law. And I certainly won't begrudge the people that travel the 1 star circuit. My siblings and friends all lived that lifestyle. However, the difference was that their adventures did not involve taking advantage of anyone and they moved on in life.

A homecare worker that spent his or her day changing adult diapers or wiping the dribble off an invalid has the knowledge that he or she made a difference and made someone's life better. A time share peddlar goes home after taking advantage of a person of limited intelligence.

The financial press has provided analysis after analysis and prescient articles as to why time shares don't work for most people. Yes, they can and do work for some. I know, as a colleague at work has had one for several years and is very happy with it. However, he went looking for one and he negotiated in a professional manner. No one chased him down the streets on a scooter.

The sales techniques used in Patong are misleading and deceitful. Maybe you don't agree, but I think most people would see it that way. If you have been in Jungceylon, you most likely have seen the developer sales staff at their tables pushing their units. One could argue that they are the same as the scooter salesmen, but there is a big difference. The Jungceylon people don't make the same blatant lies as the scooter touts. Maybe they don't have to because the real estate is of better quality or they have some self respect. I don't know, but there is a discernible difference.

[Gary A]

DrDave crunched some numbers that tell you building and selling a time share complex is the way to go. The profits are much better than any other legal business that I know of. If you gave the units away and just collected the maintenance fees, you would do quite well.