Speeding Fines (yes That Old Potato)

[PvtDick]

Why the obnoxious tone, Ajarn?

I have never seen a cop with a RECEIPT book. Ticket book, yes -- of course. They ALL have those.

The place I have lunch every day is right at a notorious traffic trap. I sit there every day looking out the window watching the cop pull people over one after the other for making illegal turns.

I have to date seen only one of two results (and I have seen these repeated hundreds of times each): 1) the driver is issued a ticket, hands over his license, and drives off; 2) the driver negotiates a while, folds up some money, looks both ways to make sure no one is watching, discretely palms it to the cop and drives off. I have NEVER seen a cop take a fine out in the open and issue a receipt.

If there really are cops out there taking legitimate fines on the spot and issuing receipts, then I stand corrected. Are you positive this is the case? I will make some inquiries and try to find out. Again, if I'm wrong I stand corrected, but no reason to be arrogant and obnoxious.

[Thaiboxer]

Ajarn...that's true, what you say could be misinterpreted if your Thai and/or his understanding of your Thai isn't that good. If you go the "poot Thai mai dai" route, he may grab his partner who speaks passable English and then you're in trouble. Perhaps you could pretend to not speak English either?

Most Thai cops can't speak English, so you may be lucky more often than not. If his English is good enough, I suppose you could pretend not to know much about the law and just say that you read something saying you could pay a fine on the spot...although in that case it would probably be in your best interest to shoot him a price of 50 or 100 baht. Let him decide and you may well be buying his whole department lunch.

[PvtDick]

The "poot Thai mai dai" routine only works so well if the cop looks at your license and sees you've held it for 15 or 20 years...

[Guest fj2003]

i was once stopped at vipavadi rangsit near don muang for speeding my car but after 20 min talking german to the thai cop who speaks quite well english he was fedup and send me away without any baht handed to him and even i got my id back

i asked him several times to tell me where to pick up my id and to pay

but he wasn't able to show me on a thai english written map where the station was

btw he ask for 1000 baht

my girlfriend told me to put a 100 baht always to my id if i get stopped

this is the fastest way to get out with smiling

[Ajarn]

Why the obnoxious tone, Ajarn?

That's just your opinion. I just call it like I see it, and I don't believe in sugar-coating much. But sometimes I misread a word, like 'receiptbook', it seems. Apologies for that.

And yes, I'm sure of what I'm talking about, no matter whether you want to moan about how arrogant I sound to you. I certainly know better than you what's going on in my heart/mind, and your interpretation of my words is just that- your own interpretation, not a fact.

Anyway, I still hope you never get caught out by the cops

[Ajarn]

Ajarn, I really enjoy your posts - they've usually got a "well balanced" tone about them, with a positive outlook, but...

Same for me. I will not bribe a police officer because it's too "inconvenient" for me to pick up my license from the station

What makes you think they're bribes, just because you pay away from the station?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's just a hunch

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, it's easy to flame somone with a partial comment taken out of its full context, isn't it?

And, clearly, your 'hunch' is wrong. They're not all bribes

Edited March 11, 2005 by Ajarn

[Insight]

Yeah, it's easy to flame somone with a partial comment taken out of its full context, isn't it? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well since you've spat your dummy out, I'll requote your full post:

Same for me. I will not bribe a police officer because it's too "inconvenient" for me to pick up my license from the station

What makes you think they're bribes, just because you pay away from the station? You've already read that this is allowed under the law, so ignorance isn't your reason, it seems.

If you get a stamped receipt, then consider it legal, because that's what the law says. If you choose to waste your time and pay more at the station, what kind of sense does that make? Sounds quite foolish and pointless, to me. The cop who stops you gets his (legal) cut, no matter what you do, as long as you pay.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Perhaps it's better to waste time at the police station owing to the on the spot fine (cough cough cough) usually being considerably higher than what gets paid at the police station. After a while, principle does come into it.

And if the "fine" is legitimate, why is it always done as out-of-sight as possible? How about the next time the police pull me over, I'll jump out of the car with a megaphone and parade around the soi giving ongoing commentry as to what's going on.

No, that'd be silly. As silly as presuming the fine is legitimate.

[Ajarn]

Yeah, it's easy to flame somone with a partial comment taken out of its full context, isn't it? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well since you've spat your dummy out, I'll requote your full post:

Same for me. I will not bribe a police officer because it's too "inconvenient" for me to pick up my license from the station

What makes you think they're bribes, just because you pay away from the station? You've already read that this is allowed under the law, so ignorance isn't your reason, it seems.

If you get a stamped receipt, then consider it legal, because that's what the law says. If you choose to waste your time and pay more at the station, what kind of sense does that make? Sounds quite foolish and pointless, to me. The cop who stops you gets his (legal) cut, no matter what you do, as long as you pay.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Perhaps it's better to waste time at the police station owing to the on the spot fine (cough cough cough) usually being considerably higher than what gets paid at the police station. After a while, principle does come into it.

And if the "fine" is legitimate, why is it always done as out-of-sight as possible? How about the next time the police pull me over, I'll jump out of the car with a megaphone and parade around the soi giving ongoing commentry as to what's going on.

No, that'd be silly. As silly as presuming the fine is legitimate.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Perhaps it's better to waste time at the police station owing to the on the spot fine (cough cough cough) usually being considerably higher than what gets paid at the police station. After a while, principle does come into it.

Huh? I've only heard that it's HIGHER at the station than on the street. Others here seem to be saying the same thing, so where did you get your idea from? And what is your principle? The money, it seems now. It seems I was mistaken that your 'principle' was anti-corruption in your earlier post. That I can at least agree with, to a practical point.

And if the "fine" is legitimate, why is it always done as out-of-sight as possible? How about the next time the police pull me over, I'll jump out of the car with a megaphone and parade around the soi giving ongoing commentry as to what's going on.

Huh? again.... It's NOT always done out of site, as I clearly outlined in my ancedotal evidence earlier, and I also offered up the out-of-sight payment as likely being an illegal bribe. So, again, here did you get THAT idea from?

Got some more?

Edited March 11, 2005 by Ajarn

[Neeranam]

Quite often when I am asked to pull over, I pretend that I don't see them and carry on. I have never been chased! I have never paid a bribe. I have had several tickets, but I hand them on to my wife and she takes care of it. She then hands them on to Pee so and so, and I don't know what happens after that.

Guess I am lucky.

[Thaiboxer]

You kept driving and never got chased? You're a lucky man! Then again many of those little bikes they ride probably couldn't catch a decent car if you were far enough ahead. Your top speed could allow you to pull far enough ahead to beat the badges. Still...can't beat the radio! It's always funny to see the cops doubling up on a tiny motorbike. In the US, each cop has his own monster bike with a zillion horsepower. I don't think two cops on a tiny, 110cc bike can even catch our car, let alone a more modern one. Around here, the cops often set up roadblocks...there could be ten or so cops standing at various points. They often pull over big trucks to check for "yaa baa" and stuff like that but there are always those looking for some extra gambling/beer money.

[Jai Dee]

Around here, the cops often set up roadblocks...there could be ten or so cops standing at various points. They often pull over big trucks to check for "yaa baa" and stuff like that but there are always those looking for some extra gambling/beer money.

Usually at a road block when there's 10 or more police officers, the is usually a "big policeman" or senior officer overseeing the activities.

It is my experience that unless you have committed a legitimate offense, you may be stopped and your licence inspected, but you will be allowed to go without having to pay "tea money".

[Ajarn]

In the North, they have a habit of firing on cars running roadblocks... Better to stop if you're up here, I think

But, my friend David runs these stops on his bike, and has been doing so for many years without any problems.

I guess I'm too much of a chicken-shit to run roadblocks.... I just just picture the bullets chasing me, not the cops...

[taxexile]

on most main highways they seem to have manned police boxes at the major in tersections and sometimes more inbetween , if you dont pull over when asked to they will radio to the next box and you will be stopped there.

if you suspect that and if you are not in a hurry and want to outwit them then stop for a coffee for an hour or so before proceeding.

when i was stopped and fined for speeding in prachuap , i was given an official receipt , definately a police department issued document. it was from a book and it was carboned in triplicate , i got the top copy.

and i was told that if i was stopped again in the same jangwat that day , just to show them the receipt and i wouldnt be fined again.

i keep a couple of international licences in the door pocket , they can be obtained easily on visits to the uk or for those who dont leave the country licenses can be easily printed in khao san road.

i would never give up my thai license

[Ajarn]

and i was told that if i was stopped again in the same jangwat that day , just to show them the receipt and i wouldnt be fined again.

Wow, I sure like that idea! I think I'd be tempted to go back and race past them again, waving my receipt out the window

[Thaiboxer]

I would rather stop for a roadblock than be fired upon. As far as the license is concenred, I think taxexile has a good point about not wanting to give up the Thai license and just use either a Khaosan Rd. one or an expired international one.

There is only one problem..suppose you hand over your fake or expeired license and drive away but the cop has already noted your license plate number which takes only seconds. I know the law enforcement over here often doesn't follow up on things, but would they put out a warrant for the boys to pull you over later on and really nail you for handing over an invalid license and not paying the fine?

[Dragonman]

Wow some of you guys are braver than me for speeding at all in Thailand.People overtaking on the outside,inside,hard shoulder,central reservation,motorbikes coming towards you down the hard shoulder,pedestrians trying to cross the dual carriageway, buffalo,elephants,u-turns from insane lorry drivers.I find these much more daunting than giving the police 200 baht every time I'm stopped for the "you've been in the outside lane too long charge".

[taxexile]

but would they put out a warrant for the boys to pull you over later on and really nail you for handing over an invalid license and not paying the fine?

i wasn't suggesting not paying the fine , the reason i wouldn't hand over my thai license is the high probabiltity of it being lost by the police and then i would have to go through all the paperwork and hassle of getting another one.

if they spotted that the license was invalid or out of date then i would be forced to show my valid thai one and chance it being lost or confiscated.

[Thaiboxer]

i wasn't suggesting not paying the fine , the reason i wouldn't hand over my thai license is the high probabiltity of it being lost by the police and then i would have to go through all the paperwork and hassle of getting another one.

if they spotted that the license was invalid or out of date then i would be forced to show my valid thai one and chance it being lost or confiscated.

Point taken I know a guy who's been here for four years, has no license, and rides his motorcycle around Bangkok as if he were a streetbike racing champ. He simply hands over 200 baht every time the cops pull him over.

[Tarragona]

One of their favourite pulls on the highways is for only using the right lane. If they see you in the right lane they'll wave you in whether you were just overtaking or not.

I was pulled over in Chantaburi last week and the cop didn't even make any pretence. The first words were "ao ngai" - the wife was thoroughly amused. Asked him what for and he came up with the right hand lane thing even though I'd gone back to the left before I'd spotted him. I had 70 baht in the top pocket and that was enough. I think he would have taken just 50.

[Darknight]

well i discussed with one untill he finally gave up

the other one said something on the radio and i had to go there.

he then told me to have a very nice day and it was all a mistake.

guess they got afraid i knew someone in higher places.

[Thaiboxer]

Knowing somebody or several people in higher places is a definite advantage over here.

[Diggerbasher]

The playing dumb move has always worked for me when i was on my own or with another farang.

When the wife is with me and we are on a long journey you pay the on the spot fine and carry on.You don't want to be making journeys to police stations in the back of beyond.

[Ajarn]

Knowing somebody or several people in higher places is a definite advantage over here. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

True, but it ain't free, of course. If your Thai friend helps you in this way, you now are part of the 'system', and you are expected to clearly show your appreciation to both the party that helped you, and the party that let you off. Failure to show the proper respect to both parties could land you in even hotter water than before... Interesting part of this society in many ways, and it is completely normal play among the Puu Yais of various sorts, from what I've seen...

[Diggerbasher]

Getting a favour is fine but what may be asked in return.There are some very scary people here.

[Neeranam]

Getting a favour is fine but what may be asked in return.There are some very scary people here.

I think that if you keep favours within the family, or extended family it is safe enough. Part of life here in Thailand, and elsewhere for that matter.

[Insight]

Got some more? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nope, none. Never met a traffic copper I couldn't trust in Thailand. It's a perfect country, and they're all great drivers too.

[Ajarn]

Got some more?  

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nope, none. Never met a traffic copper I couldn't trust in Thailand. It's a perfect country, and they're all great drivers too.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If that's what you read from my words, then there's not much chance of any meaningful communication between us, I feel sure we'd both agree, so lets agree to disagree about whatever, okay? No hard feelings on my side.

Edited March 13, 2005 by Ajarn

[Insight]

Got some more?  

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nope, none. Never met a traffic copper I couldn't trust in Thailand. It's a perfect country, and they're all great drivers too.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If that's what you read from my words, then there's not much chance of any meaningful communication between us, I feel sure we'd both agree, so lets agree to disagree about whatever, okay? No hard feelings on my side.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Fair play

[Thaiboxer]

True, but it ain't free, of course. If your Thai friend helps you in this way, you now are part of the 'system', and you are expected to clearly show your appreciation to both the party that helped you, and the party that let you off. Failure to show the proper respect to both parties could land you in even hotter water than before... Interesting part of this society in many ways, and it is completely normal play among the Puu Yais of various sorts, from what I've seen...

This is true in many circumstances and is mentioned in the book "Culture Shock: Thailand." Although much of that book is not relevant, that part is. As you say, a favor done for you can land you in hotter water than before if you don't follow through with what the other parties ask of you as opposed to just dealing with the situation yourself.

[sriracha john]

You kept driving and never got chased? You're a lucky man! Then again many of those little bikes they ride probably couldn't catch a decent car if you were far enough ahead. Your top speed could allow you to pull far enough ahead to beat the badges. Still...can't beat the radio! It's always funny to see the cops doubling up on a tiny motorbike. In the US, each cop has his own monster bike with a zillion horsepower. I don't think two cops on a tiny, 110cc bike can even catch our car, let alone a more modern one. Around here, the cops often set up roadblocks...there could be ten or so cops standing at various points. They often pull over big trucks to check for "yaa baa" and stuff like that but there are always those looking for some extra gambling/beer money.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Perhaps their bike might not catch you, but a bullet is a lot faster than anything on wheels. As demonstrated by the policeman yesterday who drew his weapon out and pointed it directly at me. I certainly did stop then, but as it turned out it was for the vehicle behind me who wasn't apparently pulling over quick enough for the policeman.