Crackdown On Back-to-back Tourist Visa Applications

[mortenaa]

And why is there a co-owner, if your friends own 100 percent? No way this is possible (to my knowledge). I'd might be wrong but Thais must own 51 percent of company shares at least.

If 51% Thai ownership (or more), its considered a Thai company. If less, then its a foreign company. Foreign companies cannot perform all kinds of business, but its limited to certain types. Export is one thing that allows up to 100% foreign ownership. A Thai company is less hassle, less paperwork, so I recommend that.

Edited September 11, 2009 by mortenaa

[MJo]

Remote workes? You are working IN thailand, as you are present here. If you provide services over the internet to companies abroad, you are by status an exporter. All your work is taxable here. But to do this legit, you need a company and a work permit. The easiest way is to setup a standard Thai company, with you as the director, and a Thai business partner as co-owner. Any law-firm can help you with this.

I have friends having 100% foreign owned export companies, exporting goods.

Exactly, and this is what people fail to see here. The crackdown really is all about those who are not tourists. People working over the internet, exporting rags to their home country, selling stuff at ebay or teaching illegally or just residing here "permanently" with funds outside. Those are the guys they want to get rid of or to get them legal and paying taxes like other who work here. Farang and Thai alike. Now i can only see a problem for single and under 50 yo guys who have the money to hang out here. But then again i guess they can afford to set some small business providing WP or fly to OZ or EU once a year to get non-o...

It always amazes me how big number of people here in TV still think they are the single most biggest factor in Thai economy. It is true that farangs bring 90% of the money in walking street bar girl business but the country is run by thais with thai money.

Also judging by all the negative comments and moaning it seems this crackdown is long overdue. Surprising how many are now forced out or to get themself legal.

[tim73]

And why is there a co-owner, if your friends own 100 percent? No way this is possible (to my knowledge). I'd might be wrong but Thais must own 51 percent of company shares at least.

If 51% Thai ownership (or more), its considered a Thai company. If less, then its a foreign company. Foreign companies cannot perform all kinds of business, but its limited to certain types. Export is one thing that allows up to 100% foreign ownership. A Thai company is less hassle, less paperwork, so I recommend that.

Not true:

"A foreigner can form or buy a Thai company, and even be the sole director of it, but Thai citizens must jointly own at least 51% of its shares – meaning a majority is technically under Thai control. Currently it is possible to allocate shares to several unrelated people, who could have no combined effect on the company's business, and this can be arranged by the lawyer, but along with most things connected with business in Thailand, there are considerable risks involved. "

[TAWP]

so how does one stay if he cant qualify for some visa's, like 200,000 baht or whatever it may take? i am moving to the philippines but rather live in Thailand. i dont want to travel every 30 days.

oh yeah im not over 50 and i have an internet business

Set up a company and pay taxes then.

[mortenaa]

Exactly, and this is what people fail to see here. The crackdown really is all about those who are not tourists. People working over the internet, exporting rags to their home country, selling stuff at ebay or teaching illegally or just residing here "permanently" with funds outside.

Yes. These guys are basically freeloaders. You may say they support the local economy by spending, but whoever conducts a business, have to register, like any other country in the world.

[Jingthing]

Well people can still fly in and out every 30 days to use 30 day stamps.

Do you always have to let us know how rich you are? The day I see you on a Baht bus sitting next to me I'll buy you a drink.

I think was is quite a daft and unnecessary comment. What are you jealous of ?

Flights to Singapore can be purchased for as little as B5000 and are no more expensive than doing 2 visa runs per month (last thread I looked at someone was being charged B2500 per time).

Some people have more money than others, but someone identifying that they do a monthly visa run by flight certainly does not indicate that they are trying to show off their wealth...

Hmmm. I am here on retirement extensions. Besides 30 day stamps, the ED visa is another fine alternative for long stayers under 50. I would also like to see the retirement option opened up to younger people perhaps with higher financial requirements for them under the logic that they will need the money longer (as other countries do). I am sad to hear of this crackdown even though it does not effect me personally. I find these jumps for joy about this distasteful. The immigration department has enough workers, it really does not need farang cheerleaders.

[mortenaa]

Not true:

"A foreigner can form or buy a Thai company, and even be the sole director of it, but Thai citizens must jointly own at least 51% of its shares – meaning a majority is technically under Thai control. Currently it is possible to allocate shares to several unrelated people, who could have no combined effect on the company's business, and this can be arranged by the lawyer, but along with most things connected with business in Thailand, there are considerable risks involved. "

Well, I guess you are saying im lying then.

By the way, what risks is involved having a Thai shareholder? If you have 49%, and your Thai busines partners have 51%, they still need 75% or more votes to sack you as the MD. And if you are the main performer in the company, why would they want to sack in the first place?

[tim73]

And why is there a co-owner, if your friends own 100 percent? No way this is possible (to my knowledge). I'd might be wrong but Thais must own 51 percent of company shares at least.

If 51% Thai ownership (or more), its considered a Thai company. If less, then its a foreign company. Foreign companies cannot perform all kinds of business, but its limited to certain types. Export is one thing that allows up to 100% foreign ownership. A Thai company is less hassle, less paperwork, so I recommend that.

Not true:

"A foreigner can form or buy a Thai company, and even be the sole director of it, but Thai citizens must jointly own at least 51% of its shares – meaning a majority is technically under Thai control. Currently it is possible to allocate shares to several unrelated people, who could have no combined effect on the company's business, and this can be arranged by the lawyer, but along with most things connected with business in Thailand, there are considerable risks involved. "

Here is more:

http://www.thaivisa.com/314.0.html

"Assuming you will want one farang work permit and non-immigrant visa, you will need to capitalize company at a minimum of 2,000,000 baht. You will pay a capitalization fee of 500 baht per 100,000 baht of capital, so you will pay a total of 10,000 baht in capitalization charges. Other application fees paid to Thai government run around 2,000 baht. Unless you want to personally run all your papers around, you will also need to pay a lawyer to attest to a power-of-attorney. This typically costs 1,000 baht. You will need a company seal � assume about 200 baht for that"

"Not mentioned so far is the subject of shareholders. To submit your company registration application, you must list seven shareholders. No exceptions to this rule, EVER. Every company in Thailand has at least seven shareholders. At least four of the seven shareholders must be Thais. Foreigners as from 2001 can make up 6 out of 7 shareholders but Thais still hold 51% of the shares, except in three cases:

1. If you are an American, you have no restriction on the number of shareholders that are Americans, as long as the total shareholder count is seven, and Americans own at least 51% of the shares (and they can own all the way up to 100%). The downside is that to obtain coverage under the Treaty of Amity and Friendship, an American-owned company must register with the Department of Foreign Business � which entails and additional 42,000 baht registration fee.

2. If you apply for promotion of your business by the Board Of Investment (BOI), you can also have majority non-Thai shareholders, but again, you will then have to register (for 42,000 baht) with the Department of Foreign Business). BOI promotion is necessary of you wish to pursue a business restricted to Thais, such as animal farming (animal husbandry).

3. Foreign owned businesses setting up a representative office in Thailand (or a subsidiary here) fall into a special category. They must register with Department of Foreign Business, and go through a lot of additional steps, I will not address these here."

[chameleon1977]

This could be the end of back to back Tourist Visas.

So it would seem Lite Beer. I meet a lot of backpackers etc who enter Thailand on 15/30 visa exempt stamps and then decide to extend their stay with visa runs to Penang etc, many staying for 6 months or more. Looks like these genuine tourists may have their stay curtailed due to a lack of forward planning.

They are going to need a section in Lonely Planet Thailand entitled - CRACKDOWNS

[Gaviator]

What's illegal about seeking employment? I thought only working with a tourist visa is illegal?

And I also thought that also a tourist 60 day visa can be applied for 3 times within a year only. No?

That means that you can never travel to Thailand to seek work unless you have been invited to do so, and have a letter that approves your non-B.

So a job in Thailand can only be found online or by connections with people that live in Thailand. Is that what it means ?

Then people have to provide you a non-b letter before your interview. And that is impossible! In some immigration offices they don't just ask you a letter, but all the information of the company. How will you ever get this when they haven't even hired you??

Yes I am aware of the huge amount of illegal workers in Thailand, people that will never get a pension, or maybe even drink so much that they cannot practically be alive at the time they cannot work anymore (and normally would receive a pension). What are they all doing here then....

All I can say is that Freedom does not exists in the world, and Thailand is a great country to learn this.

Thai Nationalism will make sure that you will always be and feel like an outsider, Thailand should favor you being here and the other way round, who cares!

What you favor about thailand is probably not the thing that Thailand is proud off, so everyone who will contribute to Thailand's bad reputation should go in the first place. Or you could do that job that illegal workers normally do, like the Burmese. Thai just want to make clear that Foreigners don't own this country, even if some think they do. Everything seems so easy, as if they can play gods. While this behavior is not possible anywhere in the world, why would anyone expect it from Thailand. Maybe they're not so fast, but they learn by mistake, that's all.

This needs to be said much more often. There are many legal ways to get a visa and stay on one year extensions. "Tourists" would have to be millionaires to stay on consecutive 90 day visas. Not many millionaires in LOS. And it doesn't take years to "tour" Thailand. The farangs complaining the most are those "flying under the radar" so to speak.

If someone can give me an example that shows me wrong......................

Okay, you want an example!

I am an Australian citizen, I am not a millionaire (Aust value that is). I do own a small property in Melbourne which has a mortgage but I still make a modest profit on the rental return. I have worked very hard for most of my life and have reasonable but not life long cash reserves in Australian investment facilities. I have only just turned 50 and am still processing my life's future options. I am not married (nor do I intend to be).

I arrived in Thailand on the 5th December 2007 with a single entry tourist visa. My original intention had been to teach English but it very quickly became apparent that it was probably not going to be a pleasurable experience for the return and so I abandoned all ideas of that pursuit.

I have always been in the country legally. I have done a few visa runs out of Ranong (when you could get 30 day stamps). I have flown to Australia twice to get double entry tourist visas and I have been to Laos once for a double entry TV. This year I have been activating my 2nd TV entries via the land border to Malaysia.

I live in Krabi Province, in a very small village on the coast. I call it paradise.

I spend my time pursuing many different recreational activities, swimming, diving, cycling, climbing, reading, gardening to name just a few. Mostly, I am content.

I rent a house from a local villager, I shop at the local market twice a week and try to only shop for incidentals at the local mum n pop shops (not at the 7). I only go to Tesco in Krabi Town for my essential supply of peanut butter and rolled oats. The point of this, is that nearly every baht that I spend goes into the local village. I do not work or receive any income in Thailand.

Some of the local kids come to me for assistance with their English homework, which I willingly and freely provide and I receive assistance with my Thai language from most of the locals that I encounter in any given day.

I believe I provide, albeit in a very small way, a valuable contribution / experience for the local Thai people which many I count as my friends. In return, my gain is incalculable; I am richer in so many ways for this opportunity to live here..........as frustrating at times it can be. I love the country, the people, the food etc etc but I have no intentions in the clearest of thoughts to transfer my hard earned cash into a Thai bank account.

If my time here has come to an end, I will be sad and it will require a lot of soul searching but so be it!

[mortenaa]

"

3.2.1 Private Limited Companies

A minimum of three shareholders is required at all times. A private limited company may be wholly owned by foreigners. However, in those activities reserved for Thai nationals, foreigner participation is generally allowed up to a maximum of 49%. The registration fee for a private limited company is 5,500 baht per million baht of capital."

[Sherlocke]

"Try to get a visa for europe as Thai people and you will see were it is the most difficult." - tourist visa for UK for a Thai subject took 7 days - the joke is it lasts for 6 months - not 30 days, 60 days or even 15 days!

[mortenaa]

Here is more:

http://www.thaivisa.com/314.0.html

Yes, i know all this alredy. Thanks for sharing though

[tracer5050]

business goes on, changes come and go

[tim73]

SO in order to be legal, one has to get somewhere about 60000 dollars plus expenses to set up a Thai company and in most cases (non-Americans) do not even get the majority of it. Oh snap, I forgot: You have to find SIX other shareholders for your little start-up Empire.

[Jingthing]

"Try to get a visa for europe as Thai people and you will see were it is the most difficult." - tourist visa for UK for a Thai subject took 7 days - the joke is it lasts for 6 months - not 30 days, 60 days or even 15 days!

Better to compare Thailand with Cambodia and the Philippines, like for like ...

[mortenaa]

Not true

Oh, by the way, my company has 75% foreign ownership..

[mortenaa]

SO in order to be legal, one has to get somewhere about 60000 dollars plus expenses to set up a Thai company and in most cases (non-Americans) do not even get the majority of it. Oh snap, I forgot: You have to find SIX other shareholders for your little start-up Empire.

Nop. You need to register 2,000,000. Minimum you have to pay up 25%. That 25% can be cash, goods, intellectual capital etc. And 3 shareholders, including you.

Why dont you just stop being so neg, and get legit!

Edited September 11, 2009 by mortenaa

[MJo]

Okay, you want an example!

I am an Australian citizen, I am not a millionaire (Aust value that is). I do own a small property in Melbourne which has a mortgage but I still make a modest profit on the rental return. I have worked very hard for most of my life and have reasonable but not life long cash reserves in Australian investment facilities. I have only just turned 50 and am still processing my life's future options. I am not married (nor do I intend to be).

I arrived in Thailand on the 5th December 2007 with a single entry tourist visa. My original intention had been to teach English but it very quickly became apparent that it was probably not going to be a pleasurable experience for the return and so I abandoned all ideas of that pursuit.

I have always been in the country legally. I have done a few visa runs out of Ranong (when you could get 30 day stamps). I have flown to Australia twice to get double entry tourist visas and I have been to Laos once for a double entry TV. This year I have been activating my 2nd TV entries via the land border to Malaysia.

I live in Krabi Province, in a very small village on the coast. I call it paradise.

I spend my time pursuing many different recreational activities, swimming, diving, cycling, climbing, reading, gardening to name just a few. Mostly, I am content.

I rent a house from a local villager, I shop at the local market twice a week and try to only shop for incidentals at the local mum n pop shops (not at the 7). I only go to Tesco in Krabi Town for my essential supply of peanut butter and rolled oats. The point of this, is that nearly every baht that I spend goes into the local village. I do not work or receive any income in Thailand.

Some of the local kids come to me for assistance with their English homework, which I willingly and freely provide and I receive assistance with my Thai language from most of the locals that I encounter in any given day.

I believe I provide, albeit in a very small way, a valuable contribution / experience for the local Thai people which many I count as my friends. In return, my gain is incalculable; I am richer in so many ways for this opportunity to live here..........as frustrating at times it can be. I love the country, the people, the food etc etc but I have no intentions in the clearest of thoughts to transfer my hard earned cash into a Thai bank account.

If my time here has come to an end, I will be sad and it will require a lot of soul searching but so be it!

Yes you are right. To put it short, you are not a tourist but here on retirement and conditions do apply. Meet the requirements or stay home. Just like in any other country.

I know it's all sad, if you are really serious about this humble thai lifestyle why don't you just overstay. Destroy your pp and other documents and make a living working the fields down south where the government is not in control ?

[Petsma]

As much as anything else, this 'Hans Brinker / put a finger in the dike' policy by Thai Imm, is going to dissuade young farang English teachers. To many T.Visaites that may be fine, but the more native English speakers willing to teach English here, the better. Granted, some may not have degrees and/or skills and some may be laggards (or worse), but chances are even the frumpiest farang pseudo teachers will have a better handle on English than many Thais who teach English on a U level. The majority of English speakers teaching English will be good at doing so (whether with degrees or not), and for sure Thai youngsters can use all the help they can get in learning English.

I totally agree with this statement brahmburgers.

[guava]

Everyones pretty much covered all angels...

Speak for yourself. I'm sure I've missed a couple.....

I'll get my coat...

[Iamfine]

How you got Non B 3 years?

[flyfrog]

Why should people with a tourist visa try to work here with no work permit and risk a fine from 150.000 baht, 1 month jail en departed from Thailand?

[koheesti]

People have tried as remote workers to get work permits...no way. Even in this forum there was an discussion about remote workers but it is totally grey area. Immigration offices in Thailand cannot issue work permits for remote workers because the business have nothing to do with Thailand and they even say sometimes "just apply tourist visa, it is ok". It is a totally grey area. Don't even ask about taxation, it is a complete mess.

100 percent foreign owned Thai companies to my knowledge are not even possible and you have to employ Thais anyway. I'd like to know where you got this info about export businesses?

Remote workes? You are working IN thailand, as you are present here.

Remote workers are working FROM Thailand. I bet many if not most 2-3 week tourists check their work email from Thailand which still constitutes "work" and should be illegal by the letter of the law. But if Thai Tax Police Commandos raided my bungalow they would find me surfing Facebook, Thaivisa and some news sites. No visible work being done. The officals' time is better spent checking work permits.

[nurgut73]

yeah! crackdown time again! bla bla bla...

[mortenaa]

Remote workers are working FROM Thailand.

Hehe, yes, FROM Thailand from your perspective as a holidayer or whatever, but IN thailand from a Thai perspective. If you don't live here, you are not a target for this crackdown, and you can safely check your job-emails

[TAWP]

Whenever these threads surface, there is all this discussion about the huge numbers of farang living and working here illegally. Where are they all? I don't know of 1 single person who is working here without a work permit. I'm sure that there are a number of "English Teachers", but hardly a significant amount.

They bring in another period of free tourist visas with the intent to increase tourism, then issue a statement to the effect that you may well not get one free or not!

Total BS

I have meet many that wouldn't really be classified as legals during 90day trips in past years (they are on 30 days ofcourse).

Some work as teachers in real schools (...). others are private tutors, some worked as stuntmen for movie company, some was web-designer and worked himself from home, etc etc.

[marsu]

finally ! was about time. i guess in your "civilized" country you welcome illegal workers with open arms...

You want to come to England mate (if ya can get a visa) and see all the illegal workers here who get treated like royalty. Then you can moan on about illegals in your Country !

[tim73]

This gets even weirder, see this from Helsinki Thai Embassy, especially number FIVE!

"Tourist Visa: (Category “TR”)

Purpose of visit: for tourism purpose only .

Period of stay :

- Travelers with this type of visa will be permitted to stay in Thailand for a period not exceeding 60 days for EACH entry, begin on the first date you arrive in Thailand.

- Those who wish to stay longer must fill an application for permission at the office of Immigration Bureau:

Soi Suanplu, South Sathorn Rd., Bangkok ,10120, Thailand, Tel +66 2 287-3101-10. please visit http://www.immigration.go.th for additional information.

Fee: Excemption on visa fee 25.06.200-04.03.2010

- If an applicant wants to have passport mailed back , a self-addressed stamped envelope with sufficient postage (registered mail only) must be included for the return of passport.

Required documents( updated 9.9.2009):

1. Your actual Passport or Travel Document with validity not less than 6 months and contain at least ONE completely empty visa page. Each applicant, including minor, is required to have his/her own passport to apply for a Thai visa at the Royal Thai Embassy.

2. 1 copy of Passport or Travel Document , the page(s) shows your photo , name , date and place or birth and the expiration date of passport.

3. Visa application form completely filled out and signed by the applicant. Parents can sign for the minor.

4. 2 passport photos, 3.5 x 4.5 cm, color, front-view, taken within 6 months.

5. 1 copy of bank statement showing a deposit at the amount not less than 400 euro/person or 800 euro/family

- can be printed out from the internet bank

6. Copy of airline ticket or e-ticket for every entry that you will enter Thailand

- if you have right to travel by airline's standby ticket, please give us the copy of your personnel ID-card or the certification of this right.

6. Visa fee exemption period during 25.6.2009 - 4.3.2010"

They really wanna kill the tourism industry with this! Who the <deleted> would want to go down to embassy and show his BANK statement for one stupid holiday?!?!?! Rather go Vietnam or Malesia instead.

Edited September 11, 2009 by tim73

[christcourt]

finally ! was about time. i guess in your "civilized" country you welcome illegal workers with open arms...

You want to come to England mate (if ya can get a visa) and see all the illegal workers here who get treated like royalty. Then you can moan on about illegals in your Country !

"Well said this man!!