Crackdown On Back-to-back Tourist Visa Applications

[markarthur]

FWIW, the last time I read about enforcement of Tourist visas the legal limit was a total stay of 90 days within the prior 6 months. (Maybe it was 60 days). So it seems like back-to-back Tourist visas have been verboten for awhile now. Maybe someone can confirm this info....

However, as long as people are asking Visa questions .... Can someone clarify whether a Retirement Visa would be usable for recurring part-year stays? Assume I'm over 50, unmarried, and have the dough to deposit in a Thai bank and/or show income as necessary. I'm unlikely to buy a condo or other residence, but might rent a place for several months at a time. I'd like to have a visa that will let me come and go at will between, say, November and March. I wouldn't be working. So, does this type of visa come with some limit on entries/exits? Does it expire if I'm not in-country every 90 days for check-in or whatever? I suppose some of these questions to be pretty basic and may completely misconstrue the function of the visa, but it also seems like there ought to be some way to do this.

[sorensen]

People keep saying get the proper visa...

What proper visa??????

Non Immigrant O Visa Multi Entry.

Some Consulates in Europe and a couple in Australia will issue with the reason of Visiting Friends.

Can you stay a full year in Thailand on a Non-Imm O, just doing the 90 days reporting or do you still have to leave the country ever 90 days?

[mortenaa]

Every expat ought to be concerned about the creeping restrictions.

I would say the opposite. Every legit expat should be happy about this!

[tim73]

I have plenty of money, I dont need to work.

I am young, I stay in hotels and eat out every day all year

helping Thailands declining tourism industry.

Well, us remote workers via internet this is a big problem now. If they really get tough, the number of false marriages will skyrocket for sure. Of course you can apply for student visa but still, this is catch-22: you cannot establish a legitimate company here without employing five Thais but your business has nothing to do with Thailand anyway. What to do? Employ five Thais and rent an office somewhere? Then put one person at the time to sit there and watch tv or surf the net for 5000 baht/month? Ridicilous.

And what about those 15/30 days visa runs? Are they now denying everybody with previous tourist visas?

[warriors]

You forgot all the foreigners who are less than 50, not married with Thai and don't work, just spend time and money here.

I know a lot of these guys and they don't understand the strict rules as they support Thai local economy.

Who think about them ?

The Bar Girls do

[christcourt]

What's illegal about seeking employment? I thought only working with a tourist visa is illegal?

And I also thought that also a tourist 60 day visa can be applied for 3 times within a year only. No?

That means that you can never travel to Thailand to seek work unless you have been invited to do so, and have a letter that approves your non-B.

So a job in Thailand can only be found online or by connections with people that live in Thailand. Is that what it means ?

Then people have to provide you a non-b letter before your interview. And that is impossible! In some immigration offices they don't just ask you a letter, but all the information of the company. How will you ever get this when they haven't even hired you??

Yes I am aware of the huge amount of illegal workers in Thailand, people that will never get a pension, or maybe even drink so much that they cannot practically be alive at the time they cannot work anymore (and normally would receive a pension). What are they all doing here then....

All I can say is that Freedom does not exists in the world, and Thailand is a great country to learn this.

Thai Nationalism will make sure that you will always be and feel like an outsider, Thailand should favor you being here and the other way round, who cares!

What you favor about thailand is probably not the thing that Thailand is proud off, so everyone who will contribute to Thailand's bad reputation should go in the first place. Or you could do that job that illegal workers normally do, like the Burmese. Thai just want to make clear that Foreigners don't own this country, even if some think they do. Everything seems so easy, as if they can play gods. While this behavior is not possible anywhere in the world, why would anyone expect it from Thailand. Maybe they're not so fast, but they learn by mistake, that's all.

What a load of "Bullshit" man and get off the drugs. Read the topic again its about stopping people working in Thailand on a tourist visa which includes all other countries around Thailand not just the Westerners!! {Dooh}

[bf2002]

They have no common sense or business sense at all. Nobody wants to visit, nobody wants to stay in thailand right now....and they are chasing out the people who actually want to stay year round?

Don't they get the concept that if the person is not in thailand, they will spend their money in whatever other country they are in?

Forget that crap about only pursuing high end tourists....they need tourists plain and simple....and they are going for cheap tour groups from china, so let the sexpats, low income expats, etc stay as long as they aren't breaking the laws (except the prostitution laws, which are hardly enforced and the real reason many expats are expats to start with).

[koosdeboer]

Whenever these threads surface, there is all this discussion about the huge numbers of farang living and working here illegally. Where are they all? I don't know of 1 single person who is working here without a work permit. I'm sure that there are a number of "English Teachers", but hardly a significant amount.

They bring in another period of free tourist visas with the intent to increase tourism, then issue a statement to the effect that you may well not get one free or not!

Total BS

I know at least 30 farang who are working here illegal with tourist visa. In Chiang mai there must be hundreds of them. I know a lot of tour guides working illegally.

[siamjimi]

[quote

All I can say is that Freedom does not exists in the world, and Thailand is a great country to learn this.

Thai Nationalism will make sure that you will always be and feel like an outsider, Thailand should favor you being here and the other way round, who cares!

Thai just want to make clear that Foreigners don't own this country, even if some think they do. Everything seems so easy, as if they can play gods. While this behavior is not possible anywhere in the world, why would anyone expect it from Thailand. Maybe they're not so fast, but they learn by mistake, that's all.

Morris - where are you from my friend? I show your quotes (above) I was most impressed by ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I am from USA - and - Thai's in USA own 100% of their business' - 100% land and house owners, 100% work permits, 100% government social awards.

There is freedom in this world but it rides the back of cynical people across the planet that want to talk trash about one of the few countries that DOES allow freedom for its citizens and LEGAL immigrants (not illegal entry and trickery to stay)

It’s not necessary to play games in the USA to get what you want - HOWEVER IN THAILAND IT'S MUCH MUCH DIFFERENT

What you are seeing here is the Thai government officials - who have families that live, work and go to school in the USA – these same government officials continue to send the official messages from their Thailand government offices that "Foreigners’ Are In Thailand Only To Spend Their Money - THEN THE GOVERNMENT WANTS YOU TO LEAVE - GET OUT"

This does not take into consideration the foreigners that have been living here - MARRIED - HAVE CHILDREN - A JOB THEY PAY TAXES ON

BUT THEY STILL CANNOT GET CONSISTANT VISA'S FOR THEMSELVES AND ARE ALWAYS IN DANGER OF BEING REFUSED ENTRY THE NEXT TIME THEY LEAVE THE COUNTRY

WHAT SORT OF WAY IS THIS TO LIVE – NO WONDER MANY PEOPOLE ARE LEAVING THAILAND TO LIVE IN PHILIPPINES

I MYSELF HAVE BEEN SCOUTING THE PLACE OUT FOR A PLACE TO LIVE

IF YOU ARE THAI UPPER CLASS OR GOVERNMENT OFFICIAL YOU WILL BENIFIT - WHILE OTHERS WILL SUFFER - THEY SIMPLY DO NOT CARE ABOUT ANYONE BUT THEMSELVES. They consider themselves the privileged few.

I think other countries such as UK, USA, Canada and others should give Thailand the same sanctions of - LIMITED VISA's - 49% OWNWERSHIP OF COMPANIES - 0.0% NO HOME OWNERSHIP AT ALL (ONLY CONDO) - - SAME SAME they give foreigners’ here in Thailand.

Start sending the Thai's that live abroad in USA, UK, Canada and other countries back home - using the same same policies and VISA applications they propose for us. Start sending the same message to the Thai's living abroad that we are being given here in Thailand - TURNABOUT IS FAIR PLAY - LETS SHOW THEM HOW ITS DONE

Do you really think it will ever happen - NO - because there are Thai's benefiting from this VISA rejection. Simple answer. It will never happen!!

[mortenaa]

You cannot establish a legitimate company here without employing five Thais but your business has nothing to do with Thailand anyway.

Yes, you can. If you do only export (services and goods), you can have a 100% foreign owned, no Thais. A company don't need staff, it just makes some things a bit easier, like work-permits.

If you are doing any work, over the internet or whatever, you need a work permit.

Edited September 11, 2009 by mortenaa

[roger1999]

Here's my situation and maybe someone can provide me with a link that might help me.

I am 45 years old and wish to retire here. I meet the income requirement but I do not meet the age requirement. Therefore I have been going to Laos to get the double entry 60 day visa and extending each one for 30 days at my local immigration office.

Is there a better way? Thanks.

[khaowong1]

you see all these compliants in this forum about this issue... and the truth of the matter is, if your here on a tourist visa, you CANNOT do any work... a tourist visa is just that, a TOURIST visa... jeez... if you want to work, get a work visa... these people who are doing illegal work on their tourist visa is messing it up for everyone... I know who is the culprit of most of these violations, but to name names, or rather nationalities would get me a bunch of respones I don't want... Try working in the U.S. on a tourist visa and see what happens... heck for that matter, any country... BUT, there's always got to be someone who just cannot follow the rules... who thinks it shouldn't apply to them...

[ovenman]

Every expat ought to be concerned about the creeping restrictions.

I would say the opposite. Every legit expat should be happy about this!

Today's legit expat is tomorrow's undesirable. No matter what your paperwork or status looks like today, you are kidding yourself if you think that you are anything more than tolerated by the powers-that-be.

[tb86]

It is easy follow the law and you have no problems.Try to get a visa for europe as Thai people and you will see were it is the most difficult.

If you work get a workpermit like in every decent country in the world and you get a 1 year renewable visa.If you are retired put 800.000 baht in a thai account and you get also the same visa.The people who complain are those who are doing monkey business and think that as foreigner all is allowed.Dont forget we are guest here no local people.

OK. The situation is grim for teachers and the majority of schools. Most private language schools will not provide "Work Visas" as it means that they will have to show their earnings in order to be able to sponsor teachers. Moe than 50% of schools will lose teachers.

Teachers want to work here legally but the schools will not do the accreditation steps. The schools that have the best pay, or reasonable pay, and conditions fall into this area.

Given the effect this move will have it won't last long and it will be back to business as normal. Visa Runs are forced on so called "illegals" by the Thais themselves, not by the "illegals". All this latest move is going to do is send shivers and panic into the schools industry, especially the teachers, but if they cannot get the Back to Back Tourist Visas then the students will drop out of the private school system, schools will lose their income and shut down.

In Western countries the process is much easier. You just apply for a Temporary Work Visa that lasts for three months or six, and if you find a job then your employer will apply to Immigration. The company or school need not be accredited to sponsor. This is where the stupidity of Asia is most evident. But this avenue is only for people 35 and under, down to 18. Older people are up against it but can get in on Tourist Visas and transfer to Temp Residence without much difficulty. Business Visas are easy to get which is why so many Asians emigrate.

What this latest move will do is push thousands of teachers into neighbouring contries' job markets.

As there are thousands upon thousands of teachers in Thailand on Tourist Visas a forced mass exodus will have a major negative impact on the Thai economy. Teachers recycle Thai money which economically creates productivity and fiscal growth. That's why illegals are in any country. Smart countries convert "ïllegals" into legals to bolster their domestic economies, to turn the money over, to pay the taxes that wealthier residents avoid though systems created by the system.

This latest move is just a rerun of such moves in Thailand over the last 20 or so years. It will go down very fast and last a mere breath of existence. But, we teachers live in hope that they will come to their senses and force the schools to come clean with their earnings and give us all a "Work Permit" which we all qualify for in any case. Unqualified teachers who work in government schools just do a short course to qualify and then they can get a "work visa". But even government schools play the "screw the teachers game" too. Government schools may employ teachers for up to 2 years on Tourist Visas, and they will make the necessary arrangements for the Visas too, and reimburse the teachers as well.

Therefore this move is aimed not at "illegals" but at Thais not paying their taxes, billions upon billions of Baht. But rather than Thais confronting the Thais because it is cultural suicide, they are doing it by proxy.

Casualties will be minimal. Then back to the way it always was.

i really doubt kicking out the thousands of minimum wage style english teachers is going to cripple the thai economy how much money do they make 10k 20k a month not exactly a devestating blow to the economy. And those jobs would be filled by locals anyways. The thai economy dosent really depend on just us, no matter how important we think we are

[joblo]

I am slightly short of the monthly amount for marriage visa Wife's income is not allowed.and no way do I have 400,000THB for a visa I used the money to build my house, 3 years ago on wife's family land. Now I have a house a wife and no where to live. She earns us both a living by farming Tilapia. Paying others to feed and tend them. Where to now?

JB

[johninthai]

I returned yesterday with my new "double entry" so hopefully am good for the next 6 months, and i have been doing the same for maybe 3 years now.

PLEASE advise me of my future prospects....i receive a disability pension from aus and due to the serious nature of my health i do not have to 'visit" australia at all.

I CANNOT/DONOT work at all and simply aim to live here till i die here! I just scrape by in my 30,000 baht monthly and take care of my long time thai g/f and vica-versa.

I have Absolutely no money for luxuries and live a basic lifestyle. I had a car and a motorcyce initially and have sold a bike to have money on hand for visa runs and living to supplement my pension..I have this and only this to get by on.I have under 60,000 baht in bank and assets of [my car...230,000 baht] so leaves me far short of satisfying the authorities as to long stay visa and the pension itself is well under the required 60,000 plus they require.

Apart from the obvious"UP THE CREEK!!'' what are my options to stay here?

[mortenaa]

Today's legit expat is tomorrow's undesirable. No matter what your paperwork or status looks like today, you are kidding yourself if you think that you are anything more than tolerated by the powers-that-be.

Bulls**t. I feel very much tolerated. All I have started, and all I have done, i've been met with respect from departments and officials. There are tonns of international corporations present here. Do you think their master-plan is to throw them all out ?

[Lite Beer]

I am slightly short of the monthly amount for marriage visa Wife's income is not allowed.and no way do I have 400,000THB for a visa I used the money to build my house, 3 years ago on wife's family land. Now I have a house a wife and no where to live. She earns us both a living by farming Tilapia. Paying others to feed and tend them. Where to now?

JB

KL and get a Multi Entry Non Imm O Visa, giving you up to 15 months.

[tim73]

You cannot establish a legitimate company here without employing five Thais but your business has nothing to do with Thailand anyway.

Yes, you can. If you do only export (services and goods), you can have a 100% foreign owned, no Thais. A company don't need staff, it just makes things some a bit easier, like work-permits.

If you are doing any work, over the internet or whatever, you need a work permit.

People have tried as remote workers to get work permits...no way. Even in this forum there was an discussion about remote workers but it is totally grey area. Immigration offices in Thailand cannot issue work permits for remote workers because the business has nothing to do with Thailand and they even say sometimes "just apply tourist visa, it is ok". It is a totally grey area. Don't even ask about taxation, it is a complete mess.

100 percent foreign owned Thai companies to my knowledge are not even possible and you have to employ Thais anyway. I'd like to know where you got this info about export businesses?

Edited September 11, 2009 by tim73

[ovenman]

Do you think their master-plan is to throw them all out ?

No. What I am saying is that if the powers-that-be had their druthers, these folks wouldn't be here in the first place, i.e. they're tolerated but they're not necessarily wanted.

[moskito]

it all doesn't matter,soon every farang will be outside thailand looking in,they want it that way,???????????//////

I always read FARANG FARANG FARANG ......we are only some percent of people bringing money to this country. The CHINESE MARKET is HUGE and thats the TOURISTS they want. They come for 3-5 days, spend a lot of money for shopping, food, parasailing etc etc and GO BACK without marrying a bargirl or complaining about the government THATS THE PEOPLE THEY WANT ...not some always complaining Farangs which are thinking they know everything better as the government officers..........

someone here writes in western countries it is hard to get in for Thais too..... Its much better this way, many Thais in Europe are living on costs of the social system, even if they never paid a buck for it. Money for jobless, money for living or even new teeth they get very easy......do you get something similar in Thailand?

[Tokker]

I have taught LEGALLY (with a work permit) at a government school for 3 years. I took my wife and son back to my home country three months ago. While the salary you get is enough to live off, it is definitely not enough to build a real future with your family, especially if you want to keep in touch with your homecountry. You won't be able to build a house or buy a car, nor will it be possible to take your family to visit friend and relatives back home every few years. And assuming you keep going at it until you retire, there will be nothing there for you pensionwise. That is unless you have saved some serious money before you came to Thailand. In short even teaching legally in Thailand is not a long-term option for young and educated people. As a qualified teacher I therefore support this crackdown from a rational point of view: a lot of foreigners will get fed up and leave and salaries for teachers will have to go up. The ones who qualify and stay might have a chance at actually building a real life. From another point of view I sympathise with all the friends I have come to know in Thailand, who consider it their home, and will now be forced to leave.

[Geckos]

I can see why !! I know so many people here that own bars and just keep getting the tourist Visa's so they don't have to get a work permit !! and NOT PAY TAX !! I think if you want to work and live in Thailand PAY YOUR TAX like every other person who works here legally !!!!!! They should crack down on these people harder and force these cheap charlies out of Thailand !!!

[jb5music]

When they say crackdown on immigration for foreigners they mean any body who looks like a foreigner.

Many of the "Thais" who reply here saying it's about time for this or would we want illegal workers in Thailand

like in our civilized countries are themselves illegal aliens. Not only working but overstay here for 20 or 30 years.

These ones are usually the most aggressive flag wavers. The farangs who invest money in Thailand or

live here permanently are going eventualy press for immigration to start at the upper left hand corner

and screen all the Thai people and their Thai ID's for authenticity. You'd probably find that a ways back it was very

easy with no documentation for Thai looking and speaking people from Cambodia. Laos, Myanmar etc

To simply make up a name and procure an official Thai ID the they can live and work indefinitely in Thailand

and pay nothing. They can also go back and renew their ID's now with little problem because they have

history, credit history, own houses businesses. It's probably impossible that any country this decade doesn't have

at least a third of it's population being illegal foreigners. So the cash cow farangs are going to have to press

immigration to hold off on the ever increasing immigration crackdown binds and start at the upperl eft hand corner of Thailand

And ask the resident citizens to produce their actual birth records along with proof of

what hospital IN Thailand they were born at and on what day. If the immigration doesn't do this and allows

these foreigners here on massive overstay that are masquerading as Thai citizens to push around the

Farangs who ARE here and contributing far more liquid value to the Thai economy - Then the farangs I'm sorry

will inevitably have to pack up shop and fly the coup because you will have no rights and be a persecuted minority

contributing far more than your share to the solvency of the Thai economy.

Edited September 11, 2009 by jb5music

[mortenaa]

People have tried as remote workers to get work permits...no way. Even in this forum there was an discussion about remote workers but it is totally grey area. Immigration offices in Thailand cannot issue work permits for remote workers because the business have nothing to do with Thailand and they even say sometimes "just apply tourist visa, it is ok". It is a totally grey area. Don't even ask about taxation, it is a complete mess.

100 percent foreign owned Thai companies to my knowledge are not even possible and you have to employ Thais anyway. I'd like to know where you got this info about export businesses?

Remote workes? You are working IN thailand, as you are present here. If you provide services over the internet to companies abroad, you are by status an exporter. All your work is taxable here. But to do this legit, you need a company and a work permit. The easiest way is to setup a standard Thai company, with you as the director, and a Thai business partner as co-owner. Any law-firm can help you with this.

I have friends having 100% foreign owned export companies, exporting goods.

Edited September 11, 2009 by mortenaa

[christcourt]

its amazing that the real problem is never faced head on: TOURISTS

ban all tourism and the visa problem will vanish

i'm also very disheartened watching all these illegal foreigners from the U.S., UK, Australia

mowing peoples lawns, cleaning their houses, and cleaning up the street garbage...give these jobs back to thai citizens

Errrrrrr What about the Chinese, Burmese, Cambodians, Laos people, indians, etc etc etc "Ban all tourism" Shutup for god sake!!!

[mortenaa]

No. What I am saying is that if the powers-that-be had their druthers, these folks wouldn't be here in the first place, i.e. they're tolerated but they're not necessarily wanted.

Yeayea, some like us some don't. Is just like in any country..

[stumiller]

Cockney is spot on.....Show where your money is coming from....Have the right visa and funds and you should be able to stay.......Work here under the law....shoot over on the Jack Golf Bus....and be open to even more corruption and Thai tranparencey...........The system is flawed no doubt....But on a whole the 'Good' That labor,immigration and tax violators due for the ecoomy minimal.

What a lot of people think is that they have a right to stay here even if they can't meet the demands of the Law. This can't be allowed.

Stay home if you are coming here to break the law. If you have come here has a tourist and want to stay then meet the requirments.

And Yes. you should be able to come here and apply for a job, no doubt . But then you will need to leave and return to your home country to get the proper Visa in order to return....

spot on, i haven't even got to the country yet and i think this is only right and fair...

it is sensible policy to keep out the dregs and bums

[tim73]

The easiest way is to setup a standard Thai company, with you as the director, and a Thai business partner as co-owner. Any law-firm can help you with this. I have friends having 100% foreign owned export companies, exporting goods.

And why is there a co-owner, if your friends own 100 percent? No way this is possible (to my knowledge). I'd might be wrong but Thais must own 51 percent of company shares at least.

[barry]

i'm eagerly waiting the day when the movie gets released;

Thai Visa: The Final Crackdown