Another Gay Scandal Brewing

[cmdream]

I am sorry. I smell homophobia here. Being gay is not all about sex. It is a gay hotel for tourists, not an orgy palace. They deserve a chance to compete in the market. I won't be staying there for my own reasons but I wish them luck as they try to make their venture succeed.

What is so threatening and offensive about this, tell me:

http://lavenderlannahotel.com/contact.php

It's a sweet .com but is so focused. We support everything gay ! Nothing about the culture or the people of CM. It is a separatist view. The advertisement in the City Life says it all " Chiang Mai, Thailand, Asia's biggest resort for gay men" no mention of gay women says a lot!!! It is a systematic signal that Chiang Mai is open for invasion. That is offensive !!!

[Jingthing]

Invasion? That is a very incendiary word indeed. Like I said, smells of homophobia. Throughout the world there are indeed accommodations that are mostly, or completely restricted to one sex, such as YMCAs or women's boarding houses. Now if there weren't a multitude of other options open on the free market, I would also be concerned. However, its nothing like that. Just don't go in the hotel if you don't like it, no problema. BTW, in the world there are also lesbian oriented hotels. I doubt the market would support that in CM ...

I don't have a problem with people who are homophobic, even if they don't realize they are, or won't admit it. Everyone has a right to their opinions and feelings as long as they don't step on other people's choices. If they do, or they try to, don't be surprised to met with resistance. You don't have to like it, you don't have to stay there, again, how does this hurt you personally?

Edited September 27, 2009 by Jingthing

[cmdream]

Invasion? That is a very incendiary word indeed. Like I said, smells of homophobia. Throughout the world there are indeed accommodations that are mostly, or completely restricted to one sex, such as YMCAs or women's boarding houses. Now if there weren't a multitude of other options open on the free market, I would also be concerned. However, its nothing like that. Just don't go in the hotel if you don't like it, no problema. BTW, in the world there are also lesbian oriented hotels. I doubt the market would support that in CM ...

I don't have a problem with people who are homophobic, even if they don't realize they are, or won't admit it. Everyone has a right to their opinions and feelings as long as they don't step on other people's choices. If they do, or they try to, don't be surprised to met with resistance. You don't have to like it, you don't have to stay there, again, how does this hurt you personally?

I love it when you gays always resort to the "HOMOPHOBIC" line when you have no answer. It does seem you have a problem with "straits" though.

[Jingthing]

I sense some hostility there. Relax, my friend.

There is no invasion. That is my answer. It is a new gay hotel in a city that has had gay hotels for decades now. As long as there has been mass tourism to Thailand, CM has ALWAYS been an attraction for gay tourists. Nothing has changed.

Edited September 27, 2009 by Jingthing

[cmdream]

I sense some hostility there. Relax, my friend.

There is no invasion. That is my answer. It is a new gay hotel in a city that has had gay hotels for decades now. As long as there has been mass tourism to Thailand, CM has ALWAYS been an attraction for gay tourists. Nothing has changed.

Your the one that's hostel mate. I am very relaxed, thanks. You are the one

that comes across as hostel. Name calling is a form of aggression.

[Jingthing]

I sense some hostility there. Relax, my friend.

There is no invasion. That is my answer. It is a new gay hotel in a city that has had gay hotels for decades now. As long as there has been mass tourism to Thailand, CM has ALWAYS been an attraction for gay tourists. Nothing has changed.

Your the one that's hostel mate. I am very relaxed, thanks. You are the one

that comes across as hostel. Name calling is a form of aggression.

It's a hotel, not a hostel. Alrighty then, I think I have made my points and really enough said between you and me, mate. I'm a lover not a fighter and I ain't feelin' the love here.

Edited September 27, 2009 by Jingthing

[cmdream]

I sense some hostility there. Relax, my friend.

There is no invasion. That is my answer. It is a new gay hotel in a city that has had gay hotels for decades now. As long as there has been mass tourism to Thailand, CM has ALWAYS been an attraction for gay tourists. Nothing has changed.

Your the one that's hostel mate. I am very relaxed, thanks. You are the one

that comes across as hostel. Name calling is a form of aggression.

It's a hotel, not a hostel. Alrighty then, I think I have made my points and really enough said between you and me, mate. I'm a lover not a fighter and I ain't feelin' the love here.

Poor thing.

[lannarebirth]

I am sorry. I smell homophobia here. Being gay is not all about sex. It is a gay hotel for tourists, not an orgy palace. They deserve a chance to compete in the market. I won't be staying there for my own reasons but I wish them luck as they try to make their venture succeed.

What is so threatening and offensive about this, tell me:

http://lavenderlannahotel.com/contact.php

I don't see anything at all threatening or offensive in the website you posted. If you go back through the thread I didn't state any objections at all until you and Paagai gave a clearer description of what the intentions of the hotel were. Didn't Paagai say the website had been "toned down" from its original form?

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=3022172

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=3022237

And get over this homophobia thing will you. I have drank in gay bars as they were nearest my home in SF. My wife's good friend operated a gay oriented hotel in Bangkok and I have stayed there numerous times. Our girls used to stay with their lesbian "aunties" during their school vacations. You're barking up the wrong tree here.

Edited September 27, 2009 by lannarebirth

[mcgriffith]

Oh, jeez.

This whole thread/topic is a tempest in a teapot, IMO.

Y'all need to click it back a notch or two.

No big deal, a gay hotel openly advertises to a guy clientèle, in CM.

Ooh, and they have a website. And maybe they will attract more gay men to CM. So what.

I'm moving to the Bitterroot Mountains to a cave, with my AK47's and Krugerrands. Lots of MRE's and a water distillation system.

Not.

[sceadugenga]

Y'all can move up to the 'Rai, plenty of caves in the mountains here. Just don't move into one too close to sceadugenga's. His early morning AK47 practice firing tends to be a bit erratic since he gave up drinking.

Edited September 28, 2009 by sceadugenga

[caf]

I am sorry. I smell homophobia here. Being gay is not all about sex. It is a gay hotel for tourists, not an orgy palace. They deserve a chance to compete in the market. I won't be staying there for my own reasons but I wish them luck as they try to make their venture succeed.

What is so threatening and offensive about this, tell me:

http://lavenderlannahotel.com/contact.php

I don't see anything at all threatening or offensive in the website you posted. If you go back through the thread I didn't state any objections at all until you and Paagai gave a clearer description of what the intentions of the hotel were. Didn't Paagai say the website had been "toned down" from its original form?

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=3022172

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=3022237

And get over this homophobia thing will you. I have drank in gay bars as they were nearest my home in SF. My wife's good friend operated a gay oriented hotel in Bangkok and I have stayed there numerous times. Our girls used to stay with their lesbian "aunties" during their school vacations. You're barking up the wrong tree here.

I doubt he will get over it. Sad he does not realise that his comments are unfairly tarring all gays with the same brush. Perhaps less homophobic and less biased gays could contribute on this thread and give more balance. His posts show a lot of self-opinionation and lack of tolerance. Perhaps he forgets this is a forum.

[Jingthing]

The smells of homophobia comment was directly in response to ANOTHER poster other than lannebirth (which is obvious if you read the thread), and I stand by it in relation to that poster. Calling the opening of a moderately sized tourism hotel an INVASION is extreme. If the hotel was for Japanese, or for Israelis, or for Arabs and you had someone call that an INVASION of Japanese, Jews, or Arabs, wouldn't it be fair to suspect some kind of deep seated prejudice coming from the writer of that? If not, fine, that is how I feel and I trust you agree I have the right to feel that way.

Edited September 28, 2009 by Jingthing

[Sao Jiang Mai]

You are right, the scandal did not happen, sorry for the misleading header. This was in the news and hyped up for a couple of days, but the incident seems to have died down. By the way, there has been a gay hotel in Chiang Mai for decades (don't know exactly, but well over a decade anyway), very long standing and popular, Mohammad's Lotus Hote.

[supbangkok]

So who actually owns this lavender place? Thai's or farang? Just curious as if Thia's then would think that local howling would be kept to a minimum?

And my 2 pennies, can not imagine such a big place being full all the time with gay guys unless some kind of sex business or sauna was attached to it.

[Jingthing]

So who actually owns this lavender place? Thai's or farang? Just curious as if Thia's then would think that local howling would be kept to a minimum?

And my 2 pennies, can not imagine such a big place being full all the time with gay guys unless some kind of sex business or sauna was attached to it.

There is a show bar/nightclub venue in there, a restaurant, and a pool. There is no gay bathhouse, but there is one within walking distance of course not related to the hotel. Its in a great location for tourists of any kind. I don't know if they will succeed or not, time will tell. The rooms aren't cheap and I am also skeptical they will succeed because of that rather than the gay aspect.

Edited September 28, 2009 by Jingthing

[ChouDoufu]

<br />

I am sorry. I smell homophobia here. Being gay is not all about sex. It is a gay hotel for tourists, not an orgy palace. They deserve a chance to compete in the market. I won't be staying there for my own reasons but I wish them luck as they try to make their venture succeed. <br /><br />What is so threatening and offensive about this, tell me:<br /><br /><a href="http://lavenderlannahotel.com/contact.php" target="_blank">http://lavenderlannahotel.com/contact.php</a>

<br /><br />It's a sweet .com but is so focused. We support everything gay ! Nothing about the culture or the people of CM. It is a separatist view. The advertisement in the City Life says it all " Chiang Mai, Thailand, Asia's biggest resort for gay men" no mention of gay women says a lot!!! It is a systematic signal that Chiang Mai is open for invasion. That is offensive !!!<br />

<br /><br /><br />

agree that the website seems separatist. heterophobic, in fact. surely there must be more to being gay than being gay. must everything in life have a gay aspect? what's the point of only offering shuttle service

to gay businesses? do hetero golf clubs swing the wrong way? why a scholarship program only for gay youths? is chiang mai fresh out of needy straight youths? i've never seen a sholarship application where

one was required to check off sexual orientation. can a straight youth apply for the scholarship, or would he/she be discriminated against based solely on their straightitude?

[Jingthing]

Its a free market choice that there is some demand for, how much exactly remains to be seen. Like I have implied before, MOST gay tourists to Chiang Mai, and CM is VERY POPULAR among gays, do not stay in gay hotels. I am not even sure if heterophobia is a real word, but I can tell you there are indeed some (a small minority) of gays in the world who live their entire lives in a ghetto like setting only consisting of other gays. Those would be extreme cases, a small minority within a minority, and I am not sure who exactly they are harming that way. Actually, I think they are harming themselves, but ain't it great they are free to do that if they choose?

Regarding your other stuff, its a bit of a troll gambit, isn't it? Gays are a minority and it is quite usual for minority groups to make efforts to help their own kind, in that way gays are no better or no worse than other minority groups. Also does it really surprise you that clients of a gay hotel, people who paid extra money to be in that setting, would have a demand for transport shuttles to gay entertainment venues? Its a market segment thing, that is all.

To put this more explicitly, generally gay hotels charge MORE MONEY for the same room than if it wasn't gay flavored. Some are willing to pay for that, some aren't, but they had better include the gay flavoring in the package if they expect to stay in business when presenting their value added offering. This is simply commercialization, exploitation of a market segment. Don't imagine that all gays love this or support this, but most of us support the freedom to offer it on the open free market.

Edited September 28, 2009 by Jingthing

[PeaceBlondie]

In addition to Mohammed's hotel, there are other hotels and guesthouses that cater to gays and advertise it, but you don't notice them unless they are literally flying the gay pride flag. Today at lunch, I sat in a restaurant with my boyfriend and the owner of a competing restaurant chatted with me. Both restaurants are owned by gay farang but you wouldn't notice that. Our gaynesses were not mentionad.

[uptheos]

I gave my daughter in UK the link.

Her response was; "It looks like a neat place to stay and the prices seem OK"

I knew her response before she answered - the gay thing wouldn't bother her one iota.

It's all much ado about nothing.....except personally, I think it's a crappy location to stay.

[Jingthing]

Its a good location for gay tourists. Trust me.

[uptheos]

Its a good location for gay tourists. Trust me.

Yep, I know the Santitam and surrounding area quite well.

I should have clarified that for me (straight) it wouldn't be a good location.

[Donnyboy]

i think this brews done

[Jingthing]

Also easy to pop over to Neimanheiman. Many of us like the arty places, don't you know ...

Edited September 28, 2009 by Jingthing

[venturalaw]

The smells of homophobia comment was directly in response to ANOTHER poster other than lannebirth (which is obvious if you read the thread), and I stand by it in relation to that poster. Calling the opening of a moderately sized tourism hotel an INVASION is extreme. If the hotel was for Japanese, or for Israelis, or for Arabs and you had someone call that an INVASION of Japanese, Jews, or Arabs, wouldn't it be fair to suspect some kind of deep seated prejudice coming from the writer of that? If not, fine, that is how I feel and I trust you agree I have the right to feel that way.

He also followed up with a statement that he found said 'invasion' "offensive". Perhaps he does not fear gays, as the word homophobia suggests, but is instead prejudice. In other words he is ignorant - as are all those who are prejudice.

Edited September 28, 2009 by venturalaw

[PeaceBlondie]

homophobia, a word far newer to English than homosexual which was coined mid-19th century, is defined more broadly than most -phobia words. It includes the hatred of homosexuals. Most ignorant people are both anti and afraid.

[cmdream]

The smells of homophobia comment was directly in response to ANOTHER poster other than lannebirth (which is obvious if you read the thread), and I stand by it in relation to that poster. Calling the opening of a moderately sized tourism hotel an INVASION is extreme. If the hotel was for Japanese, or for Israelis, or for Arabs and you had someone call that an INVASION of Japanese, Jews, or Arabs, wouldn't it be fair to suspect some kind of deep seated prejudice coming from the writer of that? If not, fine, that is how I feel and I trust you agree I have the right to feel that way.

He also followed up with a statement that he found said 'invasion' "offensive". Perhaps he does not fear gays, as the word homophobia suggests, but is instead prejudice. In other words he is ignorant - as are all those who are prejudice.

Nice take California lawyer, how's things at the bottom of the ocean ? Yes, you are wrong, my active voice , if you will take the time to read, I know $500 an hour is the going rate, so not to waste your precious billing time, it is not a matter of prejudice plain and simple. It is a matter of advertising CM as the place in all of Asia for gays to "come to ". CM is a national treasure to the Thai people. To label this town as a gay center is outrageous!

[bazmlb]

Several posts are breaking forum rules regarding flamming, if this continues the thread will be closed.

[lannarebirth]

The smells of homophobia comment was directly in response to ANOTHER poster other than lannebirth (which is obvious if you read the thread), and I stand by it in relation to that poster. Calling the opening of a moderately sized tourism hotel an INVASION is extreme. If the hotel was for Japanese, or for Israelis, or for Arabs and you had someone call that an INVASION of Japanese, Jews, or Arabs, wouldn't it be fair to suspect some kind of deep seated prejudice coming from the writer of that? If not, fine, that is how I feel and I trust you agree I have the right to feel that way.

He also followed up with a statement that he found said 'invasion' "offensive". Perhaps he does not fear gays, as the word homophobia suggests, but is instead prejudice. In other words he is ignorant - as are all those who are prejudice.

Nice take California lawyer, how's things at the bottom of the ocean ? Yes, you are wrong, my active voice , if you will take the time to read, I know $500 an hour is the going rate, so not to waste your precious billing time, it is not a matter of prejudice plain and simple. It is a matter of advertising CM as the place in all of Asia for gays to "come to ". CM is a national treasure to the Thai people. To label this town as a gay center is outrageous!

There's so much wrong with that reply that I'm ashamed to say it still made me laugh. Sorry Jesse.

[ChouDoufu]

<br />Its a free market choice that there is some demand for, how much exactly remains to be seen. Like I have implied before, MOST gay tourists to Chiang Mai, and CM is VERY POPULAR among gays, do not stay in gay hotels. I am not even sure if heterophobia is a real word, but I can tell you there are indeed some (a small minority) of gays in the world who live their entire lives in a ghetto like setting only consisting of other gays. Those would be extreme cases, a small minority within a minority, and I am not sure who exactly they are harming that way. Actually, I think they are harming themselves, but ain't it great they are free to do that if they choose?<br /><br />Regarding your other stuff, its a bit of a troll gambit, isn't it? Gays are a minority and it is quite usual for minority groups to make efforts to help their own kind, in that way gays are no better or no worse than other minority groups. Also does it really surprise you that clients of a gay hotel, people who paid extra money to be in that setting, would have a demand for transport shuttles to gay entertainment venues? Its a market segment thing, that is all.<br /><br />To put this more explicitly, generally gay hotels charge MORE MONEY for the same room than if it wasn't gay flavored. Some are willing to pay for that, some aren't, but they had better include the gay flavoring in the package if they expect to stay in business when presenting their value added offering. This is simply commercialization, exploitation of a market segment. Don't imagine that all gays love this or support this, but most of us support the freedom to offer it on the open free market.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

yes, heterophobia is a real word. just as real as homophobia.

no, not trolling. don't think so, at least. have been reading through the thread off and on, wondering what the scandal is all about. someone somewhere apparently objects to the website specifically targeting

gays, welcoming gay tourists to cm. i accessed the website, and was not impressed. from a quick read of the offering, it seems gay tourists are interested only in gay bars and mens' saunas. from the site,

there doesn't seem to be much else of interest in chiang mai, at least for gays.

interestingly, little mention of the many tourist destinations in chiang mai, mostly a listing of the hotel's gay 'credentials.' is that really enough to convince gay tourists to book? come to chiang mai and stay

with us 'cause we're gayer than the rest? doesn't seem very welcoming to ordinary tourists.

[cmdream]

The smells of homophobia comment was directly in response to ANOTHER poster other than lannebirth (which is obvious if you read the thread), and I stand by it in relation to that poster. Calling the opening of a moderately sized tourism hotel an INVASION is extreme. If the hotel was for Japanese, or for Israelis, or for Arabs and you had someone call that an INVASION of Japanese, Jews, or Arabs, wouldn't it be fair to suspect some kind of deep seated prejudice coming from the writer of that? If not, fine, that is how I feel and I trust you agree I have the right to feel that way.

He also followed up with a statement that he found said 'invasion' "offensive". Perhaps he does not fear gays, as the word homophobia suggests, but is instead prejudice. In other words he is ignorant - as are all those who are prejudice.

Nice take California lawyer, how's things at the bottom of the ocean ? Yes, you are wrong, my active voice , if you will take the time to read, I know $500 an hour is the going rate, so not to waste your precious billing time, it is not a matter of prejudice plain and simple. It is a matter of advertising CM as the place in all of Asia for gays to "come to ". CM is a national treasure to the Thai people. To label this town as a gay center is outrageous!

There's so much wrong with that reply that I'm ashamed to say it still made me laugh. Sorry Jesse.

No, don't tell his last name is James