Thailand Elite Members

[Lite Beer]

Full details and discussion Here

[Lite Beer]

This Topic will remain open solely for discussing Elite Member Card problems and solutions.

Any other comments particularly of a political nature please post in the News Forum Topic.

Thanks.

[thaiphoon]

Warning:

Off-topic posts will be removed without notification.

//Admin

[humbug]

very good point about not mentioning politics, i suppose its all to easy but the main issue will be visa's and visa re-newels and the benefits that people enjoy

my visa expires in october for re-newel so it be very interesting what happens from now on with extensions and whether they mention anything at immigration or just let it be untill they recieve any clarification

it be great to know if anyone has been told anything the next time they get their extensions

[bamboo2]

I don't know about you guys, but I spend a lot of time in Thailand and that was the appeal of the Elite card. The Elite card promised an easy way for us to enter and stay in Thailand for the rest of our lives. Even if a deal is struck that allows elite visas to be granted after the program closes, this could easily be struck down at any moment by a future immigration department when there is no one around to object. Or it could be procedural fallout say where tm.7 or tm.47 are revamped and our visas become inapplicable to new extension law. You really need a no person in the room in these kind of meetings. These are but a sampling of hypothetical visa terminations that could happen anytime over our lifetime due to carrying on an oddball visa that is an artifact of a defunct Thaksin program. Then they would tell us matter of factly to go apply for an appropriate visa, which for many of us could only be a tourist visa, and our existence would further crumble away as important side benefits disappear like the ability to get a drivers license, open a bank account, and we are sitting on buses doing border runs, etc etc. So if Elite comes back with "we are pleased to announce to all of our valued members that the visa will continue to last a lifetime after we are kaput" that should raise a strong red flag to every member since they have no credibility and are powerless. There is an old saying that comes to mind: if someone fools you twice, YOU are the fool.

Thus, the most important thing to me if the program closes would absolutely not be the elite visa to continue, but rather for the government to grant each member Thai citizenship or at the very least permanent residency for those that cannot have dual citizenship. It won't cost the government any money to speak of, is easy for them to do as they already completed background checks on all of us and told us how we are close friends of Thailand due to the money we bring in, and they have granted these things before to others in certain circumstances. This would go a long way in reconciling the issue we face now where our lifetime membership money is gone and has effectively been stolen by these people. The Thai newspapers recently reported the request for money to refund members was rejected by the cabinet. So let's be realistic--there is no money left to refund anyone and no bailout on the way.

Edited May 21, 2011 by bamboo2

[midas]

]Thus, the most important thing to me if the program closes would absolutely not be the elite visa to continue, but rather for the government to grant each member Thai citizenship or at the very least permanent residency for those that cannot have dual citizenship.

Just my opinion but hell would need to freeze over before TPTB in Thailand would agree to that

[alyx]

]Thus, the most important thing to me if the program closes would absolutely not be the elite visa to continue, but rather for the government to grant each member Thai citizenship or at the very least permanent residency for those that cannot have dual citizenship.

Just my opinion but hell would need to freeze over before TPTB in Thailand would agree to that

Well if one does not ask , one does not know....

But I tend to agree with you; it seems to be an unrealistic demand, although, as Bamboo stated, it has been done before

On the other hand I am not so sure that, if visas are grandfathered, they would easily be scrapped the way Bamboo foresees it. WE have: plenty of positive examples there

This being said, Bamboo is right when saying that there will be no one left to talk too if (rather than when...I know I prefer to stay on the utopimistic side) the project is terminated.

I must admit that I also do not feel comfortable with the (after hour) announcements made to members where TEM are asked to "be patient". Be patient ........until it is over and then ....what?

In any case we are all waiting (maybe that is the wrong thing to do but as long as there is no official decision no one can/will move) and nothing will happen before some months (July to December)

Edited May 23, 2011 by alyx

[Richard4849]

I hope that citizenship is not offered to these people, as it would surely lower the average IQ of Thailand by several points.

Who on earth would be dumb enough to by a "lifetime" this or that of any description? In the fitness center business, when they start offering "lifetime memberships", that's a good first sign that the owners are going to do a runner.

Same with some flaky "lifetime" plan offered by a flaky politician whose limited political life should have been foreseen by anyone with half a brain.

[Awk]

I hope that citizenship is not offered to these people, as it would surely lower the average IQ of Thailand by several points.

Who on earth would be dumb enough to by a "lifetime" this or that of any description? In the fitness center business, when they start offering "lifetime memberships", that's a good first sign that the owners are going to do a runner.

Same with some flaky "lifetime" plan offered by a flaky politician whose limited political life should have been foreseen by anyone with half a brain.

Well, 3-4 years ago I bought a "lifetime" membership at a fitness center. The price was around 50% more than a one-year membership would cost at the same, or at a comparable, fitness center.

Had the thing gone belly up within one and a half year, I'd lost some money. But after the first one and a half year passed, I'm saving a considerable amount, and will continue to do so until they do go belly up or change the terms for the existing "lifetime" members in some way.

So in retrospect it would have been considerably more dumb for me to follow your implied advice and not buy the lifetime membership.

Same goes for the Elite members, I guess. If you have enough money to not have to worry too much about losing it if the thing goes belly up,

more power to you. I did not, but I did have enough for my fitness membership, and are now (very) happy I chanced it. ;-)

Edited May 24, 2011 by Awk

[Richard4849]

All depends how long it takes to go belly up. You may have gotten your money's worth, but others undoubtedly will not. Very few things last a "lifetime", unless you are planning to die relatively quickly.

Lifetime this or that offers should always be a warning sign that someone is trying to get as much cash upfront as possible, and that the business plan is probably not going to be sustainable in the long run.

[alyx]

Hey

I guess everyone has got the update from the company

What do you reckon?

Before anyone steps in, I would like to stress the fact than I am ONLY addressing the persons involved, and, therefore, expect/hope remarks from them ONLY

PS: just in case, you may pm

Edited January 6, 2012 by alyx

[leoalex]

my opinion : if them decided to close program the best thing is giving out thai citizenship for existing members. This only way will make everybody happy and even all will have benefits from it.

other options can be like permanent residence (without per year time limitation) plus some refund can be discussable, but it will much more hard to reach agreement with everybody. If them not will provide visas (may be converted to something else, but lifetime) for current members - soon will many news.

[MAJIC]

The Elite Card,is just another FLOP of Thaksins,which was originally designed to Milk Farangs with too much money.

Don't hold your breath,that it will come good in the future,the money is long gone! all that is left is the charade of excuses of why it failed.

Edited January 6, 2012 by MAJIC

[leoalex]

;-) may be will better offer than money, who know.

Edited January 6, 2012 by leoalex

[starrdog]

They're trying to get an idea of what members will do if they close the program. Is it even in our best interest to answer? It's possible those who accept closure and compensation with no amount stated will end up with less than those who, at the moment, say they will not accept closure.

I'm not sure if I could answer the survey anyway without knowing the amount of compensation and what will happen with our visas. Will I be able to use the remaining years or will I have to leave the country when my 90 days are up? Maybe as a form of compensation we'll be able to keep getting them every 5 years?

Posted with Thaivisa App http://apps.thaivisa.com

[leoalex]

yes, need to discuss this topic in private with other te members. at temembers dot com for example.

[alyx]

I agree with you Starrdog and I have already mailed them about the matter as the "deemed appropriate" has no meaning whatsoever as, I guess, they will deduct the services' fee from the original payment which, in my case would amount to next to nothing (the deduction)

The main point has been for me to have this visa privilege and the only way I see it is to grandfather it in a way or another

I do understand that the company are trying their best to accommodate the members, for whatever reasons, and they need some feedback to present to the Government

Unfortunately, by accepting compensation, it would put us back to square -1, but this is only a survey, isn't it?

Refrain from answering non thailandelite members' questions/remarks, this will ease the task of the moderators and keep the subject on track

Edited January 6, 2012 by alyx

[bamboo2]

I am not positive, but a well placed source indicates TPC has already lost the ability to give members a new visa. So even now once your 5 year visa expires, you are on your own. The only power they have remaining is the ability to transfer your existing visa to a new passport but you will be given the same expiry date and not a 5 year refresh.

I agree citizenship would be a valuable offer. TPC has estimated compensation to members will be over 2.5 billion baht. If they let members opt for citizenship instead of refunds it will be a win-win for the government and the members. Members get real benefits like unlimited stay in the country and buying land. Government does not have to fork out those billions and welcomes the people it has said are valuable to have in Thailand and who were promised a lifetime of privileges.

I would be very cautious about the projected 2.5 billion in refunds making it to you. We are last in the food chain. That money will be taken just like our membership fees were. They can make up management fees and say our membership balances are all 0. In my opinion, the elite program should have notified each member exactly how much of a refund they would receive. Instead they are writing you a blank check and wanting your signature on file that you will accept it.

[Mario2008]

Thai citizenship is ruled by the Thai nationality law. An offer for Thai nationality would mean that this law would have to be changed to give the elite card members Thai nationality. That is not very likely.

[alyx]

Hello bamboo2 you are misinformed

I agree with you regarding the refund....

I will agree with Mario: citizenship is out of the picture, it is just the idea of it which stands

I am looking at having this visa being grandfathered

Edited January 7, 2012 by alyx

[leoalex]

Mario2008 & Alyx : Every country have a note in laws what can grant it for own interests. So here is not need any new law.

It just a quick idea what can be acceptable offer for all members, just in this case all this story can be finished quickly without any courts/news noise/etc and with good faces for everybody involved, and with positive news in media worldwide plus better reputation in business.

But here can be any other offers of course.

Edited January 7, 2012 by leoalex

[richard_smith237]

I have concerns regarding the 'refund of my membership fee in the amount deemed appropriate'....

The 1MB full refund is the only acceptable option.

Any refund minus services rendered is highly unfair. Many services utilized under Thai Elite can be obtained for free or at discount.

Instead of using the Thai Elite Airport transfers, wives, friends, drivers could pick us up and drop us off at the airports. Business class / First Class travel often comes with free airport transfers (depending on the airline), but instead the Thai Elite transfer is often utilized for its additional convenience. TPC may subtract significant amounts from the 'balance' for each time their service was utilized (For example: 3000b per transfer, I suspect I've taken in excess of 100 transfers, that could result in a 300,000 Baht deduction when the alternative options are free).

Additionally, golf is sometimes free (with certain credit cards at certain courses), or golf can be played with a member at discount, or through companies such as Thai golfer.com under discount. It would prove highly unfair if the 'full costs' were subtracted from the 'balance' as in effect it would mean we have paid a premium for services we may not have otherwise required or chosen to utilize.

Before the massage service was switched to 'Thai Massage' only (I used to enjoy the aroma massage) I would go for a massage more often than I normally do or have recently.

I have refused to sign the Thai Elite documentation and responded with a request for greater clarity regarding the 'amount deemed appropriate'... the vagueness of the current offer is typical of doing business in Thailand.

These are the risks we all took when joining Thai Elite. However, this is no excuse for unfair treatment.

[alyx]

Dear Richard

I understand that you are not willing to pay for a service advertised as complimentary especially when one has used them quite a lot

That might be a source of arguments between members like me who have used very little or none of the services

In my opinion the refund should not be on the table

I think we should put aside what has been or has not been provided by the company who did their best lately to please their members with the little angle of manoeuvring they have had since the troubles started

One thing is sure, we have to concert very quickly and decide what is reasonable before taking further action

That was the main idea when I posted this thread

Edited January 7, 2012 by alyx

[alyx]

Reading the end of your post, I notice that you have already answered the mail sent to you by the company

Maybe should you "sit down" and discuss the matter as I am sure that the weight of some hundreds of members , if not all...which I doubt, is far more efficient than a single opinion?

Refusing to answer doesn't count in the ballot and after all it is a survey.

Edited January 7, 2012 by alyx

[leoalex]

I think we need to know their offer to us (if refund - what the exact sum. If here will some continued lifetime benefits as visa or not. any other possibly offers, etc). This small survey not tell us anything really except what they planning to refund _something_ to us.

But of course we need to get into contact before will any final decisions will made. By this way we can combine our efforts.

Most funny what also some well-known usa/european politics and singers get elite card as gift. And I not have any idea how te will refund them and their reactions on this matter. But surely many unhappiness can happen if situation will go wrong way. I not speaking about reputation/face here, but about "not correct target group for experiments".

[starrdog]

You're right Alyx, it is just a survey so I did reply. Thanks for your input! Depending on the details, I'll most likely go along with the dissolution of the program. If I can keep my current 5 year visa until it expires then I'll have gotten mainly what I wanted from the program anyway. I will miss the fast track immigration service though!

Posted with Thaivisa App http://apps.thaivisa.com

[alyx]

Hey starrdog , that is not the point,: we cannot do anything BUT accepting the dissolution as it has been agreed/voted on the highest level but that does not mean it is fair and that we have to pay for other's mistakes (as in the way the company were taken care off in the early years), therefore it is out of the question to accept a mere "sorry, see you whenever you are around"

The general feeling, and certainly mine, is that we have enrolled a lifetime project and that some of the terms have to be honoured , at least the one which are not a burden, financially speaking, to the Thai society, and that is the visa, not forgetting that it has cost us a non negligible amount of money

It is a government's initiated program for God's sake and if we cannot trust a Governmemt who can we trust

Edited January 8, 2012 by alyx

[starrdog]

Hey starrdog , that is not the point,: we cannot do anything BUT accepting the dissolution as it has been agreed/voted on the highest level

So what was the point of the survey? They clearly had 3 options, one of which was not accepting dissolution. I assume the people not accepting dissolution will hire a lawyer and attempt to settle matters in court.

The general feeling, and certainly mine, is that we have enrolled a lifetime project and that some of the terms have to be honoured

Businesses fail all the time. From the very beginning, there were press releases that Thailand Elite membership numbers were way below expectation. I joined in early 2004 and knew at that time the program might not survive. I joined anyway hoping to string together enough 5 year visas to make it to age 50 so I could legally retire here.

Edited January 8, 2012 by starrdog

[alyx]

Hey Starrdog

Although the fate of the company was sealed last year it does not mean that it is not worth fighting for the survival of the program as this would mean saving dozens of jobs for people who have been working hard for us to feel welcome wherever / whenever we needed it

I am glad to hear that you are satisfied with your two five year visas in the roll but, to me,it is not a question whether a business falls apart or not ( attracting wealth and tourists over to Thailand may be seen as a business but to me it is more like a window showing how efficient and attractive a goverrnment/country is)

but about honesty. It the program cost money to the People then there are ways around to avoid this unfair expenditure and keeping promises made (at least the most important one as the one involving money can be taken care off, I hope, by the people who have signed the CONTRACT)

Furthermore, members cannot not be punished for the way the program was lead at the beginning and end up with nothing. I should rectify something I am surprised you are stating: the program is not on it's way to closure because not enough members have been enrolled (even though it is to factor in) but because money was spent and definitely not accounted for in the first 4/5 years.

Before hiring a lawyer, which I am sure / know some of the members are contemplating, the company need to know how we intend to react in order to report it accordingly when the time comes.

By the way I also feel that some lawyers should make contact as , if it comes down to it, it will certainly / hopefully be a nice case in their CV

Of course, although your last comment differs radically from your initial post, everyone is entitled to one's decisons, and this is your prerogative

I hope we will again exchange ideas even though, right now, members are looking at different directions

Edited January 8, 2012 by alyx

[leoalex]

I am also will not agree with company dissolution if them will cancel lifetime visa. If TE will offer us grandfathering of visa or offer us some alternative - it one thing. But if visa will just cancelled - it completely different thing and in such case I think we will need to react.