Uk Identity Cards

[alex100]

I read with interest Mertons opinion that it would be easy to introduce ID cards in the UK. Not so - unlike the USA Great Britain is still a free country although Blair is trying to change that. The introduction may happen but will never be adhered to. The Parlimentary Bill has already been altered to make it non complusary. The connection also made to UK ID Cards and 9/11 is not pertinent. 9/11 was a very American thing caused by American Imperialism and attempted empire building and the result has been a wave of terrorism brought on the rest of the world. The only difference today are the commodities involved - it is now weapons of war and right wing politics. I am gratifed to see it is not working. Fortunaltley today the cost of building an Empire is far more prohibitive and complex than it was in the days of the Raj - when the sun never set. So the poor old Yanks will just have to remain frustrated colonists as they will never be Emperors.

[Rinrada]

Time ran out for the bill on the run up to the Elections so for the time being it has been lost.

Depending on the outcome I am am certain that it will be re-introduced by whatever party wins.....anybody taking bets....and its only a matter of time.

One good blast of "ricine"from some crazy and para-Noi.will set in and the buck /and Bill will be passed quicker than anything remotely compared with the ramifications of results on the morning after a heavy night in the Tandoori.

[ProThaiExpat]

Here goes another anti-american rant thread.

My bet is the UK, dispite the original posters declarations regarding its freedoms, will initiate the national identity card long befor the U.S. will.

I have no real problem with a national identity card, what with drivers licenses and passports held by so many, but the privacy nuts just won't let it happen.

They don't stop to realize what tools the police and government have today to track people including face recognition cameras everywhere, credit card and atm tracking, etc.

[Pattaya_Fox]

Time ran out for the bill on the run up to the Elections so for the time being it has been lost.

Depending on the outcome I am am certain that it will be re-introduced by whatever party wins.....anybody taking bets....and its only a matter of time.

One good blast of "ricine"from some crazy and para-Noi.will set in and  the buck /and Bill will be passed quicker than anything remotely compared with the ramifications of results on the morning after a heavy night in the Tandoori.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Exactly. Yesterday an illegal failed asylum seeker Kamel Bourgass was in court. He has been sentenced to life in prison for the murder of Detective constable Stephen Oake with a ricin jab. he was also convicted of plotting to spread poisons.

Another four were released due to lack of evidence.

Bourgass is said to be an al-Qaeda operative.

Bourgass came into this country as an asylum seeker and before doing so discarded all his identity.

He failed in his asylum application and also failed in his appeal.

Unfortunately the forces of law and order failed to remove him from the country. He was using four identities.

He was even arrested for shop lifting and was not assosiated with being a failed asylum seeker.

Even if Identity cards were issued to people it will take time before many illegal immigrants are caught. Once they (the terrorists) are in the country and they change identity it will only be by luck that they are found.

They will have a source of funding through al-Quaeda and therefore will not need to claim any benefits from the state and therefore can disappear into the background until they wish to carry out their murderous deeds.

In this particular case Bourgass was in posession of over £4,000 in cash.

Identitiy cards will have some benefits in stopping multiple identities of criminals, but it will do little if nothing to prevent a terrorist attack.

What in my opinion is needed is stronger point of entry security and if asylum seekers come into the country with or without documentation then they should be held in a secure facility, quickly processed and if refused asylum then deported.

This will have a dual benefit in that it will deter economic and non genuine asylum seekers from applying when they know that they will not be allowed to freely roam within the community until their application has been processed and it will also mean that the authorities know where they are at all times.

As far as the main political parties are concerned the Liberal Democrats are probably the only party who will stick to their left wing policies and remain anti ID cards.

The Tories will fall into line with Labour plans as the details of the Bourgass case are absorbed by the nation and when they are in opposition after the 5th of May and pre-election politics are no longer required. They will vote with the government when the ID card bill is reintroduced.

Now that this has hit the headlines that

[Thomas_Merton]

I read with interest Mertons opinion that it would be easy to introduce ID cards in the UK.  Not so - unlike the USA Great Britain is still a free country although Blair is trying to change that. The introduction may happen but will never be adhered to. The Parlimentary Bill has already been altered to make it non complusary. The connection also made to UK ID Cards and 9/11 is not pertinent.  9/11 was a very American thing caused by American Imperialism and attempted empire building and the result has been a wave of terrorism brought on the rest of the world. The only difference today are the commodities involved - it is now weapons of war and right wing politics. I am gratifed to see it is not working. Fortunaltley today the cost of building an Empire is far more prohibitive and complex than it was in the days of the Raj - when the sun never set.  So the poor old Yanks will just have to remain frustrated colonists as they will never be Emperors.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Got to correct a few things here.

I wrote that it was easier to change your identity in the UK because there were no ID cards. I also implied that this was surprising given the reactions in the UK after 911.

You seem to be saying that 911 was a purely US affair. The reality is far from it.

After over 30 years of ex-pat life I returned to the UK last year. One of the greatest difficulties, despite having passport and birth certificate, was opening a bank account.

The reason given by my bank manager was this:

1. They have had to impose stringent identity checks post 911

2. There is no recognised single document in the UK that can guarantee a person’s identity.

[alex100]

In answer to all -- Identity cards would not haved stopped the murder of the police officer only stricter border controls and a clamp down asulyum seekers will do that- but none of the main stream UK parties have the real guts to address it for fear of being branded Non PC or racist. If we stopped the bad guys entering in the first place they would not be needed.

[alex100]

I read with interest Mertons opinion that it would be easy to introduce ID cards in the UK.  Not so - unlike the USA Great Britain is still a free country although Blair is trying to change that. The introduction may happen but will never be adhered to. The Parlimentary Bill has already been altered to make it non complusary. The connection also made to UK ID Cards and 9/11 is not pertinent.  9/11 was a very American thing caused by American Imperialism and attempted empire building and the result has been a wave of terrorism brought on the rest of the world. The only difference today are the commodities involved - it is now weapons of war and right wing politics. I am gratifed to see it is not working. Fortunaltley today the cost of building an Empire is far more prohibitive and complex than it was in the days of the Raj - when the sun never set.   So the poor old Yanks will just have to remain frustrated colonists as they will never be Emperors.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Got to correct a few things here.

Tha causality was US driven due to their foreign policy.

I wrote that it was easier to change your identity in the UK because there were no ID cards. I also implied that this was surprising given the reactions in the UK after 911.

You seem to be saying that 911 was a purely US affair. The reality is far from it.

After over 30 years of ex-pat life I returned to the UK last year. One of the greatest difficulties, despite having passport and birth certificate, was opening a bank account.

The reason given by my bank manager was this:

1. They have had to impose stringent identity checks post 911

2. There is no recognised single document in the UK that can guarantee a person’s identity.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Digger]

I dont follow UK politics very closely anymore however IF Michael Howard were to go further to the right on immigration, national security and asylum seekers I would put serious money on them winning the election. I see it as the only issue where they (Conservatives) can lean more to the right and actually have the support of the majority of people, a lot of whom are labour voters in traditionally labour strongholds. Interesting that one of his campaign team is the former advise to Aussie PM Howard who a few years did exactly the same thing. I think his famous quote is something like " we, Australia will decide who can come to Australia and on what terms etc etc" seemed to hit the right buttons for the Aussie voters. Its the kind of thing that whips up nationalism sentiment when the mainstream UK voter is clearly concerned about the rise in asylum seekers and immigration/border controls etc.

I have not read the conversative manifesto, so dont know if its still atrick up their sleeve. If I was playing that game of poker, I'd be keeping it as my trump card to role out about 2 weeks before election day and have all the print ads running one core message. Everything else, you really cant split the conservatives and labour apart - and by that I mean, their policies are so similar not how competently they execute them

[alex100]

In a Sky News poll today 85% of the people polled say immigration is their greatest concern.

[Digger]

In a Sky News poll today 85% of the people polled say immigration is their greatest concern.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Blimey and I have not lived there for over 10 years and not visited for nearly a year !!!! But having said that its not exactly rocket science. Everytime I go back I wonder whats happening to the mix of British people, so I would assume the indiginous population would have the same concerns.

[Rinrada]

In a Sky News poll today 85% of the people polled say immigration is their greatest concern.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Started about the time that the Romans got their long stay Visas.

[Thomas_Merton]

Can we just get some things clear?

This thread is a part of the Thai Visa Ex-pat Forum. A forum dedicated to those (including those from the UK) who choose to live as foreigners in another country (usually LOS).

This section of this forum is entitled Pattaya Forum.

Just what is the justification for discussing the immigration policy of the UK here of all places in the manner of these postings?

Surely only points as far as they will effect visa applications and/or Pattaya have any relevance and therefore a right to be posted here.

[Digger]

Can we just get some things clear?

This thread is a part of the Thai Visa Ex-pat Forum. A forum dedicated to those (including those from the UK) who choose to live as foreigners in another country (usually LOS).

This section of this forum is entitled Pattaya Forum.

Just what is the justification for discussing the immigration policy of the UK here of all places in the manner of these postings?

Surely only points as far as they will effect visa applications and/or Pattaya have any relevance and therefore a right to be posted here.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I thought Pattaya was on the way to become the Brit home away from home based on how many of them live there But seriously I thought the same thing when i first started reading the thread and then thought, well crazy to go outside and get wet so might as well join the fray

[Pattaya_Fox]

Can we just get some things clear?

This thread is a part of the Thai Visa Ex-pat Forum. A forum dedicated to those (including those from the UK) who choose to live as foreigners in another country (usually LOS).

This section of this forum is entitled Pattaya Forum.

Just what is the justification for discussing the immigration policy of the UK here of all places in the manner of these postings?

Surely only points as far as they will effect visa applications and/or Pattaya have any relevance and therefore a right to be posted here.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A Strange statement to make Thomas when you have also contributed to the thread, not only about the UK but about the US as well....

[Thomas_Merton]

Can we just get some things clear?

This thread is a part of the Thai Visa Ex-pat Forum. A forum dedicated to those (including those from the UK) who choose to live as foreigners in another country (usually LOS).

This section of this forum is entitled Pattaya Forum.

Just what is the justification for discussing the immigration policy of the UK here of all places in the manner of these postings?

Surely only points as far as they will effect visa applications and/or Pattaya have any relevance and therefore a right to be posted here.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A Strange statement to make Thomas when you have also contributed to the thread, not only about the UK but about the US as well....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Correcting incorrect assumptions made quoting my name can hardly be called contributing.

I think the strangeness lies in those who promote this type of discussion under the guise it has something to do with either ex-pats or Pattaya.

Not to say the hypocrisy of promoting views to limit immigration in the UK whilst living as an ex-pat in another country.

If you really want to continue this.: start a thread in the General Forum and then see how long it will last, because, when all is said and done, the only reference to Pattaya appears to be in your name.

[alex100]

I replied in this thread due to your comments in the Pattaya thread about the Gauradian report where you first raised the issue of UK ID cards or was that so long ago that you have forgotten.

[Thomas_Merton]

I replied in this thread due to your comments in the Pattaya thread about the Gauradian report where you first raised the issue of UK ID cards or was that so long ago that you have forgotten.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

...taken from a thread about Pattaya!

Using your logic, every reference, any example – every word – in one thread could legitimately become the subject of another thread.

It is to stop this resulting chaos that forums are organised as they are.

Thai Visa THAILAND Ex-pats has its own Forum Rules which we all must follow.

On top of this, is the accepted Netetiquette: keeping the subject of a thread within the confines of the forum’s broad subject title (about Thailand, about Visas, about ex-pat life) and within the titles of the numerous sub areas (in this case Pattaya).

Also, we must respect the thread’s title, keeping our contribution within its limitations.

Of course there are those, including myself, who push these rules to the limit. When that happens, there is no shortage of pompous old men, like me, to point out to the offenders the errors of their ways.

When we get too much, the Mods step in, slap some wrists, bang our heads together and in the worst cases close the thread or even ban the offenders.

So feel free to post what you want, so long as you hold to the above.

Have a nice day.

Edited April 16, 2005 by Thomas_Merton

[alex100]

Thanks but I don't need your permission

[Pattaya_Fox]

I replied in this thread due to your comments in the Pattaya thread about the Gauradian report where you first raised the issue of UK ID cards or was that so long ago that you have forgotten.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

...taken from a thread about Pattaya!

Using your logic, every reference, any example – every word – in one thread could legitimately become the subject of another thread.

It is to stop this resulting chaos that forums are organised as they are.

Thai Visa THAILAND Ex-pats has its own Forum Rules which we all must follow.

On top of this, is the accepted Netetiquette: keeping the subject of a thread within the confines of the forum’s broad subject title (about Thailand, about Visas, about ex-pat life) and within the titles of the numerous sub areas (in this case Pattaya).

Also, we must respect the thread’s title, keeping our contribution within its limitations.

Of course there are those, including myself, who push these rules to the limit. When that happens, there is no shortage of pompous old men, like me, to point out to the offenders the errors of their ways.

When we get too much, the Mods step in, slap some wrists, bang our heads together and in the worst cases close the thread or even ban the offenders.

So feel free to post what you want, so long as you hold to the above.

Have a nice day.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have to agree Thomas that you do seem like a pompous old man (you wrote it in this thread), not that I would have ever said that if you had not said it yourself, and as you seem so knowledgeable about forums you will have seen many subjects develop into other topics and on numerous occasions promote what was a potentially bland thread into something which may be of interest to many people.

It is almost impossible to stick to narrow bands when making comments about a topic and very often a good rapport is obtained purely through the fact that the topic has often diversified into something else.

As far as being the policeman of the forum I think that the moderators are more than capable of handling that job.

I