Gay Men/straight Men, Do You Envy The Other Team?

[Jingthing]

Gay men may envy straight men for being more socially acceptable, the marriage and immigration rights they have with their spouses (or other reasons).

Straight men may envy gay men for the supposed male/male sexual liberty (no fancy dinner needed to get down to bizness) and for the reputed extra disposable income due to no kids (or other reasons).

So, you as a gay or straight men, do you envy the life of those on the other team?

To be clear, the idea of this poll is to IMAGINE you are actually the other sexuality and attracted that way, and if you were, would you envy that life? Obviously you don't envy having the sexual partners of the other team. So use your imagination a little.

Deliberately left out to keep it simple, women, bisexuals, asexuals, and vegetarians. Sorry, do all polls have to be all things to all people? I think not.

Edited January 3, 2010 by Jingthing

[bkkjames]

No I don't envy the other side JT nor am attracted to you guys. The fact that I have a beautiful loving wife and a fantastic son is enough, no need to imagine anything.

[Jingthing]

So far, everyone's happy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OPC4vc2Q5I...feature=related

Myself, there are certain perks that straight men get that I envy, but when I weigh in the negative stuff they have to deal with (and I know because I tried to be straight when I was young to fit in) the overall equation is no envy. Of course its best to be satisfied with your place in life, but on the other hand ENVY is part of being human too.

Edited January 4, 2010 by Jingthing

[PeaceBlondie]

You can always make your wife pregnant nine times, divorce her after she cheats on you, and raise the last four kids by yourself while being gay. Or vice versa.

[LivinLOS]

Bordering on failing to understand the question.. Why envy ??

If a straight guy felt envious of gay guys couldnt he just exfoliate and get a pedicure ?? I mean outside of sexual attraction which is what it is for either 'team' isnt the rest basically just attainable through actions totally within your control ??

[bkkjames]

So far, everyone's happy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OPC4vc2Q5I...feature=related

Myself, there are certain perks that straight men get that I envy, but when I weigh in the negative stuff they have to deal with (and I know because I tried to be straight when I was young to fit in) the overall equation is no envy. Of course its best to be satisfied with your place in life, but on the other hand ENVY is part of being human too.

I agree, the ability to have a family (naturally), is such a burden. I am so envious of you JT. Where do I sign up?

[PeaceBlondie]

Bordering on failing to understand the question.. Why envy ??

If a straight guy felt envious of gay guys couldnt he just exfoliate and get a pedicure ?? I mean outside of sexual attraction which is what it is for either 'team' isnt the rest basically just attainable through actions totally within your control ??

I never exfoliated or pedicured. But I did other stuff on both teams.

I don't understand the question much, either. I knew a gay man who adopted 2 straight teenagers and organized blood drives for federal employees. My accountant friend took custody of his 2 teenagers. In some jurisdictions, gay couples can enjoy all the disadvantages of marriage and divorce and remarriage. Straight people can do oral and anal; the Bible tells me so.

[bkkjames]

Bordering on failing to understand the question.. Why envy ??

If a straight guy felt envious of gay guys couldnt he just exfoliate and get a pedicure ?? I mean outside of sexual attraction which is what it is for either 'team' isnt the rest basically just attainable through actions totally within your control ??

I never exfoliated or pedicured. But I did other stuff on both teams.

I don't understand the question much, either. I knew a gay man who adopted 2 straight teenagers and organized blood drives for federal employees. My accountant friend took custody of his 2 teenagers. In some jurisdictions, gay couples can enjoy all the disadvantages of marriage and divorce and remarriage. Straight people can do oral and anal; the Bible tells me so.

Can we take a poll on whether this topic should be moved into the Gay in Thailand section or not. Clearly it's a self promoting thing regarding the advantages of being gay.

Perhaps a recruitment ad in the classifieds section would be more appropriate.

[LivinLOS]

Bordering on failing to understand the question.. Why envy ??

If a straight guy felt envious of gay guys couldnt he just exfoliate and get a pedicure ?? I mean outside of sexual attraction which is what it is for either 'team' isnt the rest basically just attainable through actions totally within your control ??

I never exfoliated or pedicured. But I did other stuff on both teams.

I don't understand the question much, either. I knew a gay man who adopted 2 straight teenagers and organized blood drives for federal employees. My accountant friend took custody of his 2 teenagers. In some jurisdictions, gay couples can enjoy all the disadvantages of marriage and divorce and remarriage. Straight people can do oral and anal; the Bible tells me so.

Exactly.. You can be a straight acting gay guy or a camp gay guy.. You can be a butch straight guy or a effeminate straight guy (and thats without asking why people need to play those roles) so why any need for envy.. Just be yourself..

Unless the question is envy over how governments legalize partnerships and the like..

[Jingthing]

First of all, this does not belong in the gay section because it applies both to straights and gays.

Secondly, over my life, I have heard MANY times straight guys say they envy the "lifestyle" of gay guys which they imagine is sexual libertarianism without any limits. After all, men are always horny right? No hypocritical "I love you" lies to get to the prize. Of course in Thailand straight men can live as gay men in the go go scene, so that envy doesn't much apply here.

Gay men envying straight men? Sure, it happens. It can be painful if you live in a repressive environment and are receiving constant messages that you are not normal. Not to mention those who never come out of the closet in the first place. In much of the world simply showing gay affection in public with the object of your affection can get you beat up, arrested, stigmatized for life, or even murdered.

Of course there are many more personal reasons why an individual may envy the benefits of life in the other camp. I have listed some more common ones.

Again, now with more expansion, if you don't understand the question in the poll, well best skip the thread, because I think it is clear enough.

Edited January 4, 2010 by Jingthing

[LivinLOS]

First of all, this does not belong in the gay section because it applies both to straights and gays.

Secondly, over my life, I have heard MANY times straight guys say they envy the "lifestyle" of gay guys which they imagine is sexual libertarianism without any limits. After all, men are always horny right? No hypocritical "I love you" lies to get to the prize. Of course in Thailand straight men can live as gay men in the go go scene, so that envy doesn't much apply here.

Gay men envying straight men? Sure, it happens. It can be painful if you live in a repressive environment and are receiving constant messages that you are not normal. Not to mention those who never come out of the closet in the first place. In much of the world simply showing gay affection in public with the object of your affection can get you beat up, arrested, stigmatized for life, or even murdered.

Of course there are many more personal reasons why an individual may envy the benefits of life in the other camp. I have listed some more common ones.

Again, now with more expansion, if you don't understand the question in the poll, well best skip the thread, because I think it is clear enough.

But Thailand is neither a heavily repressive environment or hard for a straight guy to get laid..

So again.. The envy's you list barely applies.

[Jingthing]

First of all, this does not belong in the gay section because it applies both to straights and gays.

Secondly, over my life, I have heard MANY times straight guys say they envy the "lifestyle" of gay guys which they imagine is sexual libertarianism without any limits. After all, men are always horny right? No hypocritical "I love you" lies to get to the prize. Of course in Thailand straight men can live as gay men in the go go scene, so that envy doesn't much apply here.

Gay men envying straight men? Sure, it happens. It can be painful if you live in a repressive environment and are receiving constant messages that you are not normal. Not to mention those who never come out of the closet in the first place. In much of the world simply showing gay affection in public with the object of your affection can get you beat up, arrested, stigmatized for life, or even murdered. Yes of course, marriage rights and immigration rights for their spouse are a benefit most gays in the world do not enjoy.

Of course there are many more personal reasons why an individual may envy the benefits of life in the other camp. I have listed some more common ones.

Again, now with more expansion, if you don't understand the question in the poll, well best skip the thread, because I think it is clear enough.

But Thailand is neither a heavily repressive environment or hard for a straight guy to get laid..

So again.. The envy's you list barely applies.

Thus the poll results. Duh. This is good news. Thailand seems to be making both teams happy campers. I just mentioned one common envy reason straight men sometimes give. Before I also mentioned the perception that gays have bigger ... disposable incomes. Maybe there are others I don't know about. Again, thus the poll. If anyone is offended by this poll, TV is like TV, just change the channel. Edited January 4, 2010 by Jingthing

[Ulysses G.]

If I were in the US, I might envy the gay lifesyle as far as getting laid more easly, but here, I don't need to.

[LaoPo]

Bordering on failing to understand the question.. Why envy ??

If a straight guy felt envious of gay guys couldnt he just exfoliate and get a pedicure ?? I mean outside of sexual attraction which is what it is for either 'team' isnt the rest basically just attainable through actions totally within your control ??

I never exfoliated or pedicured. But I did other stuff on both teams.

I don't understand the question much, either. I knew a gay man who adopted 2 straight teenagers and organized blood drives for federal employees. My accountant friend took custody of his 2 teenagers. In some jurisdictions, gay couples can enjoy all the disadvantages of marriage and divorce and remarriage. Straight people can do oral and anal; the Bible tells me so.

One of the most famous (if not THE most famous) entertainers/hosts/movie stars, whatever else you can call him, in The Netherlands is officially married to his man and they adopted 2 black boys from the USA, both being white and living in a wonderful villa in a very exclusive village where the boys go to school also.

They're very much integrated; I wonder iff such a situation would be acceptable in -tolerant- Thailand ?

But, I don't understand the word "envy" by the OP.

What is there to envy if you're not what you're aren't? If you're not gay how can you envy a gay? If you're gay how can you envy a straight ?

Only in PB's case; he has the knowledge and experience of both sides

LaoPo

Edited January 4, 2010 by LaoPo

[Jingthing]

LP, its called IMAGINATION. I reckon all kinds of people are capable of that, eh?

I am somewhat surprised at the unanimous poll results. I wasn't really thinking about what the results would be, but unanimous is rather weird. Could this just be a matter of TEAM LOYALTY? People don't want to admit the other team could have the better deal?

I wonder how Quentin Crisp would have voted?

I guess Freud could have predicted the results of this poll --

A man's heterosexuality will not put up with any homosexuality, and vice versa.

* Sigmund Freud, Analysis Terminable and Interminable

Edited January 4, 2010 by Jingthing

[LivinLOS]

But, I don't understand the word "envy" by the OP.

What is there to envy if you're not what you're aren't? If you're not gay how can you envy a gay? If you're gay how can you envy a straight ?

Well I gather from the clarifications its not envy what they are, but to envy a lifestyle available to them..

I guess I could understand some envy if someone wanted a genetic family.. Or some dislike over how they are treated by government administrations.. But as for lifestyles ?? If you want something then I would just pursue it, I really dont know (having had one of my lifes closests mates being gay, and hung out with them heaps in amsterdam) what aspects of 'gay life' I am excluded from, or what aspects of my life he would be excluded from.. We just were attracted to different partners.

Isnt the whole point to attempt to lower these barriers and assumed differences ?? and realize we are all just 'people' ??

Edited January 5, 2010 by LivinLOS

[LaoPo]

LP, its called IMAGINATION. I reckon all kinds of people are capable of that, eh?

I am somewhat surprised at the unanimous poll results. I wasn't really thinking about what the results would be, but unanimous is rather weird. Could this just be a matter of TEAM LOYALTY? People don't want to admit the other team could have the better deal?

I wonder how Quentin Crisp would have voted?

I guess Freud could have predicted the results of this poll --

A man's heterosexuality will not put up with any homosexuality, and vice versa.

* Sigmund Freud, Analysis Terminable and Interminable

In this case Freud was a bit black-and-white.....many men...many women are bisexual.

Not for a full 100% but many do have some experience in their lives; more female than male I suppose although I didn't check upon.

Oh, before I forget: yes I have a lot of imagination, like most of us.

LaoPo

[Birdman]

cxl

Edited January 5, 2010 by Birdman

[Meridian007]

I guess Freud could have predicted the results of this poll --

A man's heterosexuality will not put up with any homosexuality, and vice versa.

* Sigmund Freud, Analysis Terminable and Interminable

I don't think it's a black and white Freudian thing of "us" versus "them", people are just being honest. I think it is generally agreed that sexuality is a matter of greys rather than black and white, but it seems that many of us have identified comfortably with one more than the other, so the results are understandable.

I think BKKJames has it correct in that it depends on your situation. I'm also very happy with the relationship I have with my girlfriend (two years this Friday! Woot!), so that benefit of the opportunity for promiscuity, (the other side does have better "hook-up" websites, my gay friends are always bragging about them), doesn't interest me.

As to the other point that was made, is Thailand really more free for homosexuals? I think that personal activities are given better privacy here, but the official line is quite repressive, especially for Thais. I've heard stories of Thai men in high positions (especially Thai-Chinese) who have no opportunity to come out of the closet, and are forced to keep a wife and children to secure their position. Sure they still partake on the sly, but any official stance is prohibited. Same thing goes for marriage. It's not surprising, avoidance and ability to ignore what "cannot be seen" are very Asian traits. It makes for some very unhappy people.

I think Canada was on the right track before the right-wingers got into power, I grew up seeing the change in Canadian culture towards tolerance. By the time I finished my undergrad in the early nineties, there was much more openness and pride than when I was younger. I'm not sure how it is now, (I know there was talk of repealing the legal right to marriage), but most people that I knew before I left felt any need to hide their sexuality.

[LaoPo]

cxl

cxl - being ten more than one hundred thirty.

Of course.

LaoPo

[Lite Beer]

Post Containing an obscenity deleted.

[mauGR1]

I think i can roughly understand why so many are bisexuals and gays,but i am straight,and i don't envy gays.

Well in the end i don't envy anybody at all,i cannot think about something more stupid than envy.

But a old friend once said:(a very serious wife of him was pulling him out of the bar)

"""If we had the nerve to become gays,we could drink and watch football in peace!"""

[bonobo]

I don't envy being gay at all.  In most societies, being gay is a handicap in social interactions.  If homosexuality is not openly or even legally used as a basis of  discrimination, then it is still something upon which most people frown.  In the US, for example, the entire issue of gay marriage is one which shows that even where civil rights are trumpeted, equality just doesn't exist.  And that doesn't even consider hate groups like God Hates Fags and others.

The other issue is in procreation.  Many gay men have biological children, and many have been married to women.  But I have both male and female gay acquaintances who are just not able to have sex with someone of the opposite gender, and they have gone to great lengths with attempts at artificial insemination to have children.  Several couples have just given up, and one lesbian couple ended up adopting. So if procreation is a goal, then being gay, while not a death knell, is certainly a handicap.

It is possible I might have envied the pre-HIV lasciviousness of the San Francisco bath scene when I was younger and finding female partners was a little more taxing, but that is not really a factor anymore.

However, and the poll doesn't offer this choice, I am a little envious of bi-sexuals.  To me, they have the best of both worlds and can pick and choose as circumstances dictate.  I personally have been in situations where had I been the least bit bi-sexual, I could have enjoyed far greater revelry even if my main participation remained hetrosexually oriented. 

[KarenBravo]

Envy gay people's sex lives? Never!

I'd rather be celibate.

[Jingthing]

Envy gay people's sex lives? Never!

I'd rather be celibate.

Perhaps you misunderstood the question? Your response is so strong its as if you think the question was whether you want to change your orientation. Its a more nuanced question than that.

PS -- not that this matters. This poll is a DUD anyway. So sorry, another one bites the dust.

Edited January 8, 2010 by Jingthing

[bkkjames]

Envy gay people's sex lives? Never!

I'd rather be celibate.

Perhaps you misunderstood the question? Your response is so strong its as if you think the question was whether you want to change your orientation. Its a more nuanced question than that.

PS -- not that this matters. This poll is a DUD anyway. So sorry, another one bites the dust.

Why is it a dud JT, because the vast majority provided an answer you weren't hoping for?

[Jingthing]

Envy gay people's sex lives? Never!

I'd rather be celibate.

Perhaps you misunderstood the question? Your response is so strong its as if you think the question was whether you want to change your orientation. Its a more nuanced question than that.

PS -- not that this matters. This poll is a DUD anyway. So sorry, another one bites the dust.

Why is it a dud JT, because the vast majority provided an answer you weren't hoping for?

You would think that. No, it is a dud because the results are almost unanimous. Any poll with completely overwhelming results is basically pointless. Polls are supposed to be about topics that there is disagreement on. I also feel some people didn't even understand the question, that maybe some think I was asking straight guys if they wanted to have sex with men which couldn't be further from my intention. I wonder if the poll was written in such a way that is was much more clear that was NOT what it was about whether the results would be different. But I don't wonder enough to try it again. This poll is polled out. So in every possible way, a total dud of a poll. So sorry again.

Edited January 9, 2010 by Jingthing

[Travel2003]

Should have been one more group/camp in the poll.

I remember when I was younger I was impressed about (and maybe a little bit envy) the so called Bisexuals, as they seemed to enjoy the best of both camps.

Then I moved to Thailand, and I suddenly met females (stricly friends that is) whom had no problem "jumping over the fence", to be with a "Tom", for a little while.

Especially if they were heart broken (recently dumped by their boyfriend).

Of course they deny they are bisexuals.

Nevertheless, I guess I kind of envy them that ability.

[Jingthing]

Yes I understand the bisexual envy. More choices of who to date. However, I did want to keep it real simple. In this case, maybe it is too simple.

Edited January 12, 2010 by Jingthing

[rgs2001uk]

Ok JT, I will humuor you.

Not gay, however can see it may have some advantages.

Its never the wrong time of the month.

Cant get your partner pregnant.

In most cases your partner wont have kids in tow.