Hull Honorary Thai Consulate

[Tod Daniels]

Just an FYI to all you EU country people:

I sent an email to Hull last week for clarification. I wanted to see if they will issue year long Multi Entry Non-Immigrant Type O visas for the purpose of visiting friends IF the application comes from and is postmarked from other EU countries. Many people have said they will only issue visas IF it is postmarked from inside the UK. I wanted to check if this information was accurate so this is the email I sent;

"Dear Sir,

I live in a neighboring EU country and wish to secure a One Year, Multi Entry, Non-Immigrant, Type-O Visa to visit friends in Thailand.

Can I post it to you and have it returned even though I don’t reside in the UK? I read somewhere that mail in applicants must be postmarked from inside the UK.

Thank you in advance for the quick answer,

Tod"

Today I received this answer from Hull;

"Thank you for your enquiry

Yes you can apply from a EU country please confirm which country you are from, please allow more time though for sending to us and when we send back you have to allow 3-5working days.

Regards"

This may be good news to people who reside in the EU and have to deal with a less than "user friendly" thai consulate or embassy in their home country.

Obviously you should post it via some expedited mail service and probably include a pre-addressed postage pre-paid return envelope to get it back quickly, but it looks like they’ll issue it without a problem.

Anyway, just wanted people to know the information I received.

"Remember knowledge is power. .."

[Pattaya46]

  tod-daniels said:

Many people have said they will only issue visas IF it is postmarked from inside the UK.

Humm... but many people also have reported on this forum that they got non-Imm O from Spain, Italia, France, ...

Do not listen what guys from UK say... they don't know.

I am from France and I got my O from Hull by post last year. Easy and no problem.

  Quote

This may be good news to people who reside in the EU and have to deal with a less than "user friendly" thai consulate or embassy in their home country.

At least it will confirm that there is no change : Hull is still very friendly

[sk1max]

I have a US passport and got my a visa from Hull, although it was mailed from a UK address. Hull does provide an excellent service.

[thaiphoon]

Thanks for the information. Useful confirmation to have. Just now need Hull to update their website to reflect that position ...

In Europe, Stuttgart and Amsterdam consulates will also issue multiple entry Non-O visas on the basis of visiting friends.

[Maestro]

I am not sure about this but I suspect that there are EU regulations, binding for all EU members, that stipulate that if a product or service is offered in an EU country it must be made available also to residents in all other EU countries. There was the famous case where a German car manufacturer was fined heavily because he forbid his official distributor in one country to sell the cars to residents in another country.

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Maestro

[Brunus]

Maestro

I think that these EU regulations don't apply to foreign (non EU) embassies. As far as I know a Thai embassy in the UK is a "part of Thailand", meaning that inside the embassy you don't obey to British law (or EU) but to Thai law. I think they are just friendly. Good to know.

[torrenova]

  Maestro said:

I am not sure about this but I suspect that there are EU regulations, binding for all EU members, that stipulate that if a product or service is offered in an EU country it must be made available also to residents in all other EU countries. There was the famous case where a German car manufacturer was fined heavily because he forbid his official distributor in one country to sell the cars to residents in another country.

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Maestro

  Brunus said:

Maestro

I think that these EU regulations don't apply to foreign (non EU) embassies. As far as I know a Thai embassy in the UK is a "part of Thailand", meaning that inside the embassy you don't obey to British law (or EU) but to Thai law. I think they are just friendly. Good to know.

I go with Brunus' logic on the issuance of visas but I think the binding issue Maestro touches on extends to the postal delivery. Hull never had an issue with incoming post from anywhere but they wanted nothing to do with couriers taking documents from them. I suspect what within the EU, the UK style pre paid, greater security pouches (around £4 in the UK), can be used to and from any country and that Hull is happy to post them out to the EU, but perhaps no farther afield.

[endure]

Special Delivery (next day signed for) is only available for delivery in the UK. The consulate in Hull is not a Thai embassy. The 'proper' Embassy and Consulate are in London. I think the little consulates scattered round the UK don't have any special status.

[Brunus]

  endure said:

Special Delivery (next day signed for) is only available for delivery in the UK. The consulate in Hull is not a Thai embassy. The 'proper' Embassy and Consulate are in London. I think the little consulates scattered round the UK don't have any special status.

I disagree. I think that every Thai embassy or consulate in a foreign country has the same regulations, and inside every Thai embassy/consulate you are subject to Thai law. Well theoretically. We all know that every Thai embassy/consulate apply their own rules. But none of them are subject to the laws of the countries where they are.

[Brunus]

Torrenova

Same as before. I think that a Thai embassy/consulate in Europe can decide to ignore all EU regulations, not only about issuing visas but also about the postal service.

[Maestro]

The persons enjoying diplomatic immunity at embassies and consulates cannot be held accountable under the host country's laws if they act in violation of a law or regulation. This does not mean that they must act against the law as a matter of course. With few exceptions, these persons enjoying diplomatic immunity are law-abiding, except that some of them habitually disregard parking restrictions and fail to pay the fines.

If a consul decides to give an applicant a non-O visa for the purpose of travelling to Thailand to visit friends, ie for "other purposes" in accordance with the design of this visa, he is, as far as I know, acting correctly within the guidelines he presumably received from Thailand's Ministry of Foreign Affairs. It is of course always within the consul's discretion to judge whether an applicant qualifies for the type of visa he applies for. Honorary consuls often dedicate more time to individual applications and have a better understanding of the economic benefit that foreign travellers bring to Thailand than the consular staff at government-staffed consulates or the consular section of an embassy.

In other words, it would make no sense for a consul to deny a visa to an applicant who has a right to apply for it and qualifies for it, but at a government-staffed consulate, burdened with numerous other duties, an applicant may run a higher risk of being fobbed off.

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Maestro

[dereklev]

The Honourary Consul in Hull is a business and as such will issue Visas to all who ask.

Several years ago when I needed to do my first Extension of Stay based on Marriage they (Hull) insisted I needed a new Non-Imm 'O' Visa before travelling back to Thailand and extending my stay. Knowing no better I paid about 100 GBP for a Visa I did not need.

When I arrived at Don Muang the Immigration Officer was confused as to why I had the Visa from Hull and after consultation with her boss stamped me in on my original Non Imm "O" and told me that I needed to go to Suan Plu the following week to start the extension process.

For those who want a multi-entry Non Imm 'O' Hull is a very user friendly Honourary Consul, however I would double check any advice they give with the Thai Embassy in London.

[wetface]

I've heard nothing but good things about Hull. Has anyone dealt with a particular individual there that goes above and beyond?

[simon43]

Honorary consulates are not considered as territory of the country that they represent - that rule only applies to Embassies and consulates which are not 'honorary'.

Simon

[JimGant]

  Quote

If a consul decides to give an applicant a non-O visa for the purpose of travelling to Thailand to visit friends, ie for "other purposes" in accordance with the design of this visa, he is, as far as I know, acting correctly within the guidelines he presumably received from Thailand's Ministry of Foreign Affairs

It almost appears guidelines issued by the MFA could be ad hoc to individual consulates -- or if shotgunned to all, intentionally worded to be broadly interpreted. Why would GB's honorary consulates be instructed to shut down O-A operations, while apparently no such guidance was issued to the States (until now). Or did the consulates in the States interpret the original instruction to their benefit -- and just recently received a "tighter" directive? Or, maybe the part of MFA dealing with GB didn't coordinate with other geographic offices......

The following was from the Denver Honorary Consulate a few years back:

  Quote

We are trying to tell customers who are trying to obtain a visa, to go to their

nearest consulate within the state they reside in. We will accept travelers

who are within the state of Colorado or neighboring cities who do not have a

consulate in their area.

We are trying to make customers understand that we will not be issuing

visas as easily as we had in the past due to the changes that have taken

place since October 2006. We are trying to follow the rules the best we can

per the Thai Embassy.

We do not want customers misinformed that we can issue ANY TYPE of visa

easily if requested or we will take applications from those who

reside outside our area. We will try to ask the customer to provide as

much documentation as possible pertaining to the type of visa applied for.

We know other honorary consulates in the States tightened up about this time in their criteria for Non Imm O visas. However, only Florida, to my knowledge, went along with Denver in limiting their clients to a certain geography.

And while Hull was told a few years back to quit O-A visas -- they apparently didn't get the same message -- or interpretation -- as did Denver on Non Imm O criteria.

Nor several other non-US honorary consulates.

[thailandfaq]

  Pattaya46 said:

  tod-daniels said:

Many people have said they will only issue visas IF it is postmarked from inside the UK.

Humm... but many people also have reported on this forum that they got non-Imm O from Spain, Italia, France, ...

Do not listen what guys from UK say... they don't know.

I am from France and I got my O from Hull by post last year. Easy and no problem.

  Quote

This may be good news to people who reside in the EU and have to deal with a less than "user friendly" thai consulate or embassy in their home country.

At least it will confirm that there is no change : Hull is still very friendly

I can personally confirm that Mr.Jaume the Thai Honorary Consul in Barcelona will give you a Non-Immigrant B E or O without having to present any papers at all - you just go to him and tell him what you want and tsome reason or other and he gives you the visa.

However, he is only authorised to issue 3x 3months, not a whole 12 months.

He was ordered to do this by the Thai Embassy in Madrid (who will not give you the one year without presenting all the necessary paperwork)

He also said that he accepts you sending him the passport for renewal by post from Thailand. I am not sure how this is done with no stamp leaving Thailand but he says he does it. Maybe when you get it back you just stamp out on the current visa which is not yet out of date and then walk across border and back in and show them the new page from Barcelona.

Meaning it would be best to just open the page where the old visa is so they see it and stamp out and then show them the new one on re-entry...

[thailandfaq]

  dereklev said:

The Honourary Consul in Hull is a business and as such will issue Visas to all who ask.

Several years ago when I needed to do my first Extension of Stay based on Marriage they (Hull) insisted I needed a new Non-Imm 'O' Visa before travelling back to Thailand and extending my stay. Knowing no better I paid about 100 GBP for a Visa I did not need.

When I arrived at Don Muang the Immigration Officer was confused as to why I had the Visa from Hull and after consultation with her boss stamped me in on my original Non Imm "O" and told me that I needed to go to Suan Plu the following week to start the extension process.

For those who want a multi-entry Non Imm 'O' Hull is a very user friendly Honourary Consul, however I would double check any advice they give with the Thai Embassy in London.

correct, it is a business. If a person manages to get honorary status as a consul then they get benefits (earnings) - this is a nice number for them. Visa Fees will have comissions for their time, so those who wish increased earnings will be less scrupulous in the way they examine the proof you have to provide of entitlement to the visa.

Sounds like you crossed an immigration officer who was pissed off at the fact that you had found a way to wangle an easy visa, and made things harder for you deliberately.

Many people who are nationalist and do not like foreigners immigrating to their country will be attracted to become immigration officers - this is inevitable that there are a few racists or fascists within the organism. You can find this in every nation - i was punched in the stomach in Amsterdam Central Station by a cop who told me to go back to Germany where i belong (im English but my ticket was to Berlin haha). This is also the reason why some officers are just downright unfriendly and give you a hard time.

Thai immigration has never been know for its friendliness towards foreigners. In Ranong there is a thing where they take your pass port make a stamping motion under the counter with their hands, and give you the pass back - once you arrive in Burma, the Burmese say "you haven't stamped out!" and then you look in your pass and see that indeed they never stamped you out of the country. I have had this happen to me and know three others who were duped in the same manner. When you go back to the immigration for the second time and complain they smile, and say "oh i must have forgotten"

This is a deliberate hassling of people who use the border runs as a way to stay longer in Thailand. This is also the reason they now only let you do 2 (or is it 3?) on month visa on entries per land border. Also why they ask you to show return flight. It is deliberately done to make your life harder.

Which is what we call in Thai

"Nisay Mai Dee"

This is the best description for Thai immigration นิสัยไม่ดี

all i can say is อนุโมทนาครับผม

[wetface]

Forgive my ignorance, but I am most confused here. I am a US citizen wishing to obtain a 12 month non immigrant Visa, type O for visiting friends. If you visit the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs Website under type O it states the following :

other activities (Category "O") as follows:

to stay with the family, to perfrom duties for the state enterprise or social welfare organizations, to stay after retirement for the elderly, to receive medical treatment, to be a sport coach as required by Thai Government, to be a contestant or witness for the judicial process.

There is no mention of friends. Now I've contacted only one consulate in the states, located in Texas.. they've told me flat out that they would not issue an O Visa based on visiting friends... perfectly understandable as this corresponds with what's on The Ministry of Foreign Affairs. From what I can gather other consulates that were more friendly ie Denver, Florida, and Oregon are now following suite. I have however contacted other embassies who claimed they would issue such a visa.... these countries are far from the States and I'd be mad as he-- to go all the way there to be rejected on whatever grounds, espescially as I've been assurred me that this would not be the case. I've read on this forum that the "friend reason" is a hard sell... and this has come about as of late. Why is this the case? If I' m spending money, taxis, hotels, entertainment, etc. and can show sufficient funds what the F is up with that? Especially in this times. Apparently their targeting the big spenders, but this has only been just revealed..

Why then can some consulates claim to be able to issue this type of visa but more importantly can they perform on this. Is there a possibilty that Thai officials could reject this visa upon arrival?

Baffled

[Crossy]

  thailandfaq said:

He also said that he accepts you sending him the passport for renewal by post from Thailand. I am not sure how this is done with no stamp leaving Thailand but he says he does it. Maybe when you get it back you just stamp out on the current visa which is not yet out of date and then walk across border and back in and show them the new page from Barcelona.

Meaning it would be best to just open the page where the old visa is so they see it and stamp out and then show them the new one on re-entry...

This is most definitely illegal (applying whilst in Thailand).

Others have reported having brand new visas cancelled by outgoing immigration as they were obtained without leaving Thailand.

[Maestro]

  wetface said:

...If you visit the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs Website under type O it states the following :

other activities (Category "O") as follows:

to stay with the family, to perfrom duties for the state enterprise or social welfare organizations, to stay after retirement for the elderly, to receive medical treatment, to be a sport coach as required by Thai Government, to be a contestant or witness for the judicial process...

This is what the Immigration Act says:

  Quote

Section 34 : aliens entering into the kingdom for a temporary stay may enter for the below listed activities ;

...

15. Other activities as prescribed in the Ministerial Regulations.

Therefore, we would need to look at the relevant Ministerial Regulation, for this has more authority than the text put on the website of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Anybody got a copy of it?

  Quote

Why then can some consulates claim to be able to issue this type of visa but more importantly can they perform on this. Is there a possibilty that Thai officials could reject this visa upon arrival?

A consul will issue a non-O visa if on the basis of the application he receives and based on the prevailing laws and regulations and the instructions and guidelines he may have received from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs or the embassy he feels authorised to do so.

A Thai immigration official has the authority to deny entry not only to the holder of a non-O visa but to any foreigner, regardless of the type of visa he has or whether he arrives without a visa:

www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/content/visaxpiredate.html

The consul does not "perform" on the visa he issues. He has no authority to give you permission to enter Thailand. Only the immigration officer at the point of entry has this authority.

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Maestro

[Maestro]

  thailandfaq said:

...I can personally confirm that Mr.Jaume the Thai Honorary Consul in Barcelona will give you a Non-Immigrant B E or O without having to present any papers at all - you just go to him and tell him what you want and tsome reason or other and he gives you the visa.

However, he is only authorised to issue 3x 3months, not a whole 12 months...

A multiple-entry non-O visa valid for a limited number of entries, ie not for “multiple” entries, is a rarity and I would be glad to get a copy of one for my collection of visa stamps. I know it does happen, have seen it mentioned once with reference to another consulate.

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Maestro

[Sunny Valentine]

I have a two entry Business Visa in my passport, granted by the Royal Thai Embassy in Vienna. Do you want a scan?

Sunny

[thaiphoon]

I am sure Maestro would appreciate a copy for his collection.

[wetface]

Thank you Maestro for the clarifications.

Yes a copy of the the relevant Ministerial Regulation would put speculation to rest. Any luck in procuring this?

WF

[Maestro]

  Sunny Valentine said:

I have a two entry Business Visa in my passport, granted by the Royal Thai Embassy in Vienna. Do you want a scan?

Sunny

Yes, please.

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Maestro