Fish/seafood With Cheese

[Jingthing]

I watch this entertaining US tv show called Chopped which is a chef's competition. They give the chefs a basket of surprise ingredients and then with the help of a pantry they cook something creative on a deadline. They are then judged by some top chef judges. Recently on the show the issue of fish or seafood paired with cheese has come up. Whenever a chef does that, one of the judges goes ballistic claiming it is a basic culinary rule that these things should NEVER be combined, no matter what. I am not a chef obviously but that is the first I heard of such a thing. Growing up of course there were tuna cheese melts, the crab au gratins, and I wouldn't think twice about finishing a pasta and fish/seafood dish at least with parma cheese. So what's the hap on this so called rule?

Edited January 30, 2010 by Jingthing

[tariq786]

It may be because there is a myth of drinking milk over fish gives you white spots on skin.

Cheese is from milk and the Chef Judges are the culinary experts.

But I like lot of cheese on my Sea Food Pizza

Edited January 30, 2010 by tariq786

[tutsiwarrior]

MacDonald's fillet o' fish sandwich has got cheese on it...5 billion burgers can't be wrong...

[xen]

Now i know that there is a higher reason why i always ask for my fillet of fish without that horrible cheese that they put on everything in Macdonalds,

It makes it worth the 5 minute wait.

[angiud]

Yeah, in the italian cucina, never mix cheese with any kind of fish and seafood.

Pizza seafood, no mozzarella!

Spaghetti alle Vongole? No Parmesan!

Macdonald? What is?

[Ulysses G.]

MacDonald's fillet o' fish sandwich has got cheese on it

Proof positive that the food snobs are wrong.

[sceadugenga]

It's not the cheese I object to, it's the type of cheese.

I suspect many fast food use cheese that barely fits that description.

Having said that I quite enjoy seafood pizza or cheese on a Spaghetti Marinara.

[needforspeed]

"Homard Thermidor"

Lobster Thermidor is a french classic dish still been served in some 3 michelin star restaurants.

Grilled lobster with cheese.

[NanaFoods]

Just culinary snobbery.

There are really very few universal culinary axioms.

---------------

From Wikipedia:

"Lobster Thermidor" is a French dish consisting of a creamy cheesy mixture of cooked lobster meat, egg yolks, and brandy or sherry, stuffed into a lobster shell, and optionally served with an oven-browned cheese crust."

--------------

As you probably are well aware, Lobster Themidor is a famous and classic dish - of historic French cuisine, no less, dating back to Napoleon. It doesn't get any more plain than that.

Also try Googling "shimp cheese recipes", "crab cheese recipes" etc...Notice a number of creole and cajun dishes pop up, amongst others.

What makes "cuisine" is what a group of people prefer to EAT and ENJOY - not what the culinary snobs say is "proper".

Edited January 31, 2010 by ChefHeat

[needforspeed]

One of the judges goes ballistic claiming it is a basic culinary rule that these things should NEVER be combined, no matter what.

Can't blaim the poor guy he is u Chef form the US isn't.

[surfaxxis]

Just culinary snobbery.

There are really very few universal culinary axioms.

---------------

From Wikipedia:

"Lobster Thermidor" is a French dish consisting of a creamy cheesy mixture of cooked lobster meat, egg yolks, and brandy or sherry, stuffed into a lobster shell, and optionally served with an oven-browned cheese crust."

--------------

As you probably are well aware, Lobster Themidor is a famous and classic dish - of historic French cuisine, no less, dating back to Napoleon. It doesn't get any more plain than that.

Also try Googling "shimp cheese recipes", "crab cheese recipes" etc...Notice a number of creole and cajun dishes pop up, amongst others.

What makes "cuisine" is what a group of people prefer to EAT and ENJOY - not what the culinary snobs say is "proper".

Try looking up,

"Monty Pythons" version

Lobster Thermedore en crevette seved in a purple salamandar with shallots aubergines pate fried egg and spam,, this is a classic dish,, I have just heard the Danes have a derivative of this,, the addition of blue vien cheese,, a ratio of 1 kg lobster to 500grams blue vien, mmmmmmmmmmm aloy mak mak

[Jonathanpattaya]

Cod or salmon in cheese sauce was a childhood favourite of mine back in the UK.

The scarcity of cod now will make it a delicacy!

Edited January 31, 2010 by Jonathanpattaya

[Jingthing]

Yeah, in the italian cucina, never mix cheese with any kind of fish and seafood.

Pizza seafood, no mozzarella!

Spaghetti alle Vongole? No Parmesan!

Macdonald? What is?

Yeah, that must be it. The touchy chef has an Italian background. But its still kind of bizarre, just because its an Italian thing doesn't mean it applies globally.

[Ave]

Yeah, in the italian cucina, never mix cheese with any kind of fish and seafood.

Pizza seafood, no mozzarella!

Spaghetti alle Vongole? No Parmesan!

Macdonald? What is?

I used to believe the same coming from a culinary family backround. There are a lot of strict dos and don'ts in Italian cuisine. I find that over restrictive kills one's creativity. I usually refuse to follow official recipes, I dare combine the odd ingredients at times and fortunately none of my guinea-pigs has complained so far.

I have had a fish fillet with some fine cheese sauce on top before and I must say it wasn't bad at all!

Exception for pizza seafood with mozzarella and spaghetti alle vongole with parmesan (We all have our limits..)

[Ulysses G.]

It's not the cheese I object to, it's the type of cheese.

I suspect many fast food use cheese that barely fits that description.

While I am not overly knowledgeable about cheeses, I enjoy many - especially feta and goat cheese - however, for hotdogs, burgers or fast food processed cheese is pretty much all you need. Save the good stuff to eat with a loaf of good French bread.

Edited January 31, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[bkkjames]

http://www.newitalianrecipes.com/seafood-risotto.html

Italian Seafood Risotto With Porcini Mushrooms

Ingredients:

1 cup Italian arborio rice

2-3 T e. v. olive oil

4-6 cups chicken stock (preferably homemade)

1/2 ounce dried porcini mushrooms

2 cups boiling water (to reconstitute the dried porcinis)

1/2 cup dry, white wine such as chardonnay or pinot grigio

1/2 lb medium or large shrimp and 1/2 lb scallops (or, all shrimp or all scallops)

3 cloves garlic, thinly sliced

1/2 cup onions or shallots, finely minced

1 T fennel seeds, crushed in (coffee grinder)

2 T fresh Italian Parsley, chopped

1/4 to 1/2 cup grated parmigiano-reggiano

salt and freshly ground black or Tellicherry pepper

(see Herb and Spice Dictionary)

1/2 cup grated Romano cheese

2 T butter or yogurt butter

Preparation:

Pour boiling water into small bowl and add porcinis to reconstitute. This takes from 20-30 minutes, so plan ahead. Shrooms should be soft and plumped.

Set chicken stock to a slow simmer in a large sauce pan or soup pan

In large skillet, heat wine over medium and add garlic for one minute.

Add the seafood and let simmer until shrimp turn just pink, and/or scallops just turn translucent. Remove from heat and let steep in the wine.

(In other words, cook the seafood only to medium rare, since it will continue to cook in the wine and when added to the risotto.)

After the porcinis have "re-constituted" for about half an hour, take the porcinis out of the liquid and squeeze out some of the juice back into the bowl. It will be dark brownish red by now and deeply flavorful. Yum! If it's "gritty", strain the grit out.

Add the cleaned porcini liquid and the porcinis themselves to the simmering stock

Perfect! Now the risotto stock is primed to deeply infuse the arborio with the earthy, chestnutty flavor of the porcinis. (They grow underneath chestnut trees in Italy and take on the flavor).

You are sooo going to love this. Darn it, I wish we were there!

Now, in a large cast iron skillet or large non-stick skillet, heat olive oil to medium.

Add the onions and toss them a couple of times to coat. Then, add the Italian Arborio rice.

Toss the rice with the onions a few times to coat it well with oil. This helps the rice to absorb the cooking juices slowly. It also assists in producing the silky texture that we so love in a really professionally done risotto.

Okay, now you add a ladle or two of the barely simmering stock, stir a little, make sure the developing risotto is completely covered with juices and reduce the heat to low.

Let it just simmer for a few, until the liquid is absorbed and the liquid level is just below the top of the rice.

Add more stock. You don't have to stir this time but make sure the rice is completely covered again. And just keep repeating this for about fifteen or so.

You are just about done now, so add the seafood and the liquid that is with it in its cooking pan.

Let the level of the liquid in your risotto reduce by about half.

It's now time to taste for tenderness of the rice. If the rice is tender enough for your personal taste (we like it really tender with just a tiny bit of crispness), add the cheese and butter, stir them in thoroughly and let the risotto continue to cook until almost all of the liquid has been absorbed.

Remove from the heat. Please let the dish stand for about 5-7 minutes and the flavors will meld (marry) a bit more.

Serve in pasta bowls (we've got these really cute Italiany bowls we serve risotto and pasta in.)

Top with grated Parmigiano-Reggiano and freshly chopped Italian Parsley.

A nice Italian Chard or substantive pinot grigio goes great with this. Let us know what you think!

[t.s]

lox, cream cheese and bagel?

cant be wrong with red onion and capers.

[lazygourmet]

Coquilles Saint-Jacques au Gratin

(Scallops Gratinated)

[lazygourmet]

Oyster Rockfeller

[Jingthing]

Fish sticks 'n Velveeta?

[tb86]

there talking about italian chefs, not french or any other type of cuisine, especialy in pastas... pretty common, kinda funny they will through a tempertantrum if pushed over the subject, the chef on the show wasn't scott connant by any chance was it?

[BillR]

fuji restaurant crab rolls have cream cheese, a bit odd tasting.

[junkofdavid2]

MacDonald's fillet o' fish sandwich has got cheese on it...

There you go... that's the answer.

That's why it's bad to put seafood with cheese.

As with some 'try-hard' so-called food connoisseurs on ThaiVisa, anything to do with McDonalds is 'bad.'

What do you do if you wana appear to have sophisticated taste, but can't afford sophisticated stuff?

Easy, bash McDonald's!

[tutsiwarrior]

MacDonald's fillet o' fish sandwich has got cheese on it...

There you go... that's the answer.

That's why it's bad to put seafood with cheese.

As with some 'try-hard' so-called food connoisseurs on ThaiVisa, anything to do with McDonalds is 'bad.'

What do you do if you wana appear to have sophisticated taste, but can't afford sophisticated stuff?

Easy, bash McDonald's!

but...I like the fillet o' fish sammich ...usually order one wid a CHEESE burger an' fries...

Edited February 25, 2010 by tutsiwarrior

[Naam]

"So what's the hap on this so called rule?"

the judge was an orthodox Jew.

[RouxTheDay]

It's a very old "rule" that I've only encountered in Italian cuisine... from a culinary point of view, the only real reason to avoid cheese with seafood has to do with flavor profiles. Specifically, cheese used that the table as a final garnish is usually parmagianno or romano, which are very strong, almost acrid cheeses. Most seafood has a delicate flavor that is easily overpowered by such a flavor profile. Why would you want to do that?

From a cultural point of view, I've been told that it dates way back to the old religious rules that dictated what you could eat and when. For instance part of eating fish during lent would have related to sacrificing rich foods. In addition to giving up meat, you'd be expected to avoid dairy, too. Etc.

Anyway. Just eat what you like. But do consider the type and amount of cheese you use with your seafood, and consider how delicate or intensely flavored your seafood is. Dishes like thermidor use very little cheese, it's always a mild melting cheese, and the liquid used to make the sauce includes a fish stock, which helps the lobster compete with the cheese.

[Thailaw]

Lobster Thermidor is a french classic dish still been served in some 3 michelin star restaurants.

Grilled lobster with cheese.

I think that generally "no cheese with seafood" follows the "no red wine with seafood" rule. Seafood is generally not powerful, and the delicate flavor gets lost when covered with a lot of cheese (especially the aged (and more expensive) cheeses). If it is good seafood, like lobster, it really doesn't need it -- a little butter brings out the flavor and is all that is required. With good fresh seafood, generally "simple is best". And in Thailand, the flavor of the warm water lobster is much less strong than its cold water, north Atlantic counterpart. I had lobster thermador once at a seafood restaurant on the far end of Walking Street on the land side (directly across from another seafood restaurant on then ocean side). Everyone thought it was terrible, and I was the only one that ate any (mainly because it was B2000, and I didn't want to waste it --all you could ntaste was the cheese, and not very good cheese at that). I think that king prawns are a far better choice in Thailand, but I would stronly recommend against lobster thermador here in Thailand or any seafood dish where cheese is involved. I do put a healthy portion of parmesian cheese on spaghetti con frutos de mar, and I do occasionally like Oysters Rockefeller for variety, but oysters are really best raw on the shell with a good pungent cocktail sauce, and nothing more.

That said, the no red wine with seafood is a rule to be broken frequently/always. I do not drink that sweet water some call white wine with any food or on any occasion, but red wine and many seafoods go well together and the wine does not generally over power the seafood, especially if the seafood is fried and cooked Thai style.

Cheers,

[bonobo]

MacDonald's fillet o' fish sandwich has got cheese on it...

There you go... that's the answer.

That's why it's bad to put seafood with cheese.

As with some 'try-hard' so-called food connoisseurs on ThaiVisa, anything to do with McDonalds is 'bad.'

What do you do if you wana appear to have sophisticated taste, but can't afford sophisticated stuff?

Easy, bash McDonald's!

I consider myself somewhat of a foodie, and my cooking generally reflects that.  But I do have the odd hankering for a Mickey D's fillet of fish four or five times a year.  That and my fondness for peanut butter, huckleberry preserves, and Miracle Whip sandwiches may get me kicked out of the Culinary Elitism Club, but I like what I like.

As far as cheese and seafood, there are multitudes of famous tried-and-true recipes combining both, so what is the problem.  If people think it tasted good, that is good enough to combine them.  And all these culinary rules can get thrown out the window.

[Thailaw]

I consider myself somewhat of a foodie, and my cooking generally reflects that. But I do have the odd hankering for a Mickey D's fillet of fish four or five times a year. That and my fondness for peanut butter, huckleberry preserves, and Miracle Whip sandwiches may get me kicked out of the Culinary Elitism Club, but I like what I like.

As far as cheese and seafood, there are multitudes of famous tried-and-true recipes combining both, so what is the problem. If people think it tasted good, that is good enough to combine them. And all these culinary rules can get thrown out the window.

I couldn't agree more -- that's good enough for them to combine them, and they probably weren't in Thailand. So the next time you're in an upscale seafood restaurant throw the "no cheese with seafood" rule out the window (if there is one) and order lobster thermador (and pay the approximately B1500 for it) -- your stomach, your money. But don't say that you weren't warned...... There is no intent at elitism here, just common sense -- pass the red wine, please.

[Naam]

"Homard Thermidor"

Lobster Thermidor is a french classic dish still been served in some 3 michelin star restaurants. Grilled lobster with cheese.

i [not so] humbly beg to differ and claim that no restaurant awarded with any Michelin stars would prepare/serve Lobster Thermidor as the chef would be considered a culinary criminal.