Ayutthaya Police Arrested 2 Italians For Crime With No Evidence

[surayu]

"...has been put under pressure for a false statement regarding the embassy."

Look like you know something we don't, can you be more clear about it? just to add some credibility on what you mentioned above, no offence, just a bit confused by your words....

[surayu]

"....in the italian thai-devoted website Sawadee.it."

well that might even be italian but the rules of that forum got more to do with the chinese censorship than anything else, not even private messages are allowed(!) and that's why i left them, perhaps they can get some more inspiration on how to run a website of that kind from this forum , honestly.

[Briggsy]

May I post a link to the Asian Human Rights Commission website regarding the Ayuthaya police?

Asian Human Rights Commission

...and lets remember that this commission in Thailand is made by the abusers theyrself, it's really like a neverending bad dream

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2009/05/14...al_30102674.php

You are confusing Thailand's National Human Rights Commission which is a Thai government agency with The Asian Human Rights Commission, a Hong-Kong based non-governmental organisation. Similar names but totally different entities.

[surayu]

Similar names but totally different entities.

Thanks for the clarification Briggsy, i tought they were all part of the same joke but i am glad they are not, it can't be all "fake" in this world

[angiud]

What happen? I put somebody under pressure? And who?

I just write an Email to the Italian Ambassador and a new thread in an italian forum thai-oriented.

Just to answer to the help request of Lazyguy.

This italian that has his own business to run and a family has been put under pressure for a false statement regarding the embassy.

Can you be more clear regarding "a false statement"?

p.s. I'm not blaming angiud, I just wanted to say that before putting people under pressure, someone should think twice...

Can you be more clear about "someone should think twice..."? Sounds to me like a threat. Capisce?

[lazyguy]

an italian who runs an italian restaurant in ayutthaya, contaced by angiud, has been today to the embassy, and they confirmed that they've always been in charge of the matter. Frankly I hardly think an embassy would leave a citizen without help in hese circumstances as there is also an agreement between italy and thailand for spending part of the time in te italian prisons over a certain time.

I don't know whether they are guilty or not, but there is always the perception i the expat communities that a foreigner in Thailand is cheated by everybody , even their own embassy..

This italian that has his own business to run and a family has been put under pressure for a false statement regarding the embassy.

I'm afraid that sometimes this is used as an alibi....(I repeat that I don't know in this particular case) and if for the police a foreigner is always guilty, it seems that for expats the forigner is always innocent and the embassies do nothing...

entirely redundant!

[buasaard]

surayu, you know who I am since you were on sawadee and I use the same nickname on it but since you don't have the same nickname I don't know who you are. Anyway I've been pretty clear, Marco went to italian embassy, and they told that they've always been in touch with the two , they never left them alone and that they would deal with the matter, so there was no need he left his business to run to bangkok as he was strongly requested by other farangs in ayutthaya accusing him of not doing enough.

Regarding the censorship on sawadee, I just want to clarify that messages are not possible to people that are under observation because disturbed the forum, trolls, professional offenders and so on, not for everybody and would like to know your nick to see if you left or were banned . Anyway it's not fair to go on on this matter on thaivisa, you surely have other forums to do this.

Regarding the story : can anybody explain if nobody could talk with them since their arrest, how can we possibly know that they've been requested 30,000 baht to get away?

[buasaard]

angiud , it's clearly s false statement the fact that the embassy left them without assistance. Without that statement Marco wouldn't have been "assaulted" by other expats...but as I told I don't blame you, you just reported a news and acted fairly, I blame those who believe unconditionally to the news and attack people accusing them of not doing enough...

[lazyguy]

prison conditions:

Seba and Noris are depending on the very poor food in Ayutthaya prison: plain rice/congee and a cup of water every two hours.

every Ayutthaya prison inmate who wants better food has to pay 1,000 THB to the prison director from which the inmate can

buy food and other things for the double price as outside in the SHOP OF THE DIRECTORS WIFE!!!

nobody knows how much of the 1,000 THB actually arrive for being used by the inmates.

if we collect more examples of evidence how bad Ayutthaya police is treading human rights and abusing their position as

law guards the whole thing could be easy turning out to what it is: a smelly stinking bunch of corrupt cops who are considerably

damaging the already suspicious image of Thai police.

By the way of thing are going here it is not only obvious that this is a planned scam but also been carried out only by a small

group of policemen which are obviously covered by the rest of the Ayutthaya police team.

after Seba and Noris have not paid the "under the table offer" of 30,000 THB the cops were convinced of them paying the

"official" bail of 150,000 THB to get out. the cops are extremely pissed now that Seba and Noris have also refused to pay this

sum. honestly, I believe the Ayutthaya police is getting more nervous with every day of having Seba and Noris sitting in prison.

a friend of mine who has seen the Thai woman, which has caused all this trouble is going to make a photo of her. this is only

for documentation. but he says, that she has three or four shops in Ayutthaya running. I ask myself - if this is true - WHY DOES

A BUSINESS PERSON WOULD BE INTERESTED IN SCAMMING POOR TOURISTS?

The answer is simple and easy to understand, if you know this culture: GREED!

This friend who is also living in Thailand already several decades told me that in whatever situation here in TH someone accusing

someone else for somthing which has not been done - approach him the same way as you get "attacked". Not helpful for the

victims anymore but for readers: he said, if the Italians (at least one of them) would have stand up and would have shouted to

the woman that she is accusing them false and going even more far by grabbing her and slapping her face for lying about them,

the Thai woman would have possible left the scene within seconds as this would heve been one of the most unexpected reactions

by the victims. however, just a side note.

SEBA and NORIS are still in prison for a crime with no evidence. THIS IS A SCAM!!!

SCAM, day no. 5 - two Italian Nationals held under extremely bad conditions in Ayutthaya prison to extort money!!!

PERPETRATOR: Ayutthaya police in cooperation with a civilist!

Thailand, 09.02.2010

[lazyguy]

angiud , it's clearly s false statement the fact that the embassy left them without assistance. Without that statement Marco wouldn't have been "assaulted" by other expats...but as I told I don't blame you, you just reported a news and acted fairly, I blame those who believe unconditionally to the news and attack people accusing them of not doing enough...

ok, thank you for clarification! we are all interested in helping and as the first reaction of the Italian Embassy was not

very supportive there was a certain reason to be concerned about their help at all. I belive that the pressure grew quickly

by the calls they received from several people.

Angiud has at no time given a false statement. The Italian Embassy is obviously giving now the service which has not clearly

been promised in first stage. I am also positively surprised how quick the Italian Embassy is moving now.

let's put this thing to an end here and let's stay concentrated on what follows.

[lazyguy]

I can confirm that the Italian Embassy is now in contact with the Thai lawyer who is on this case.

[surayu]

- WHY DOES A BUSINESS PERSON WOULD BE INTERESTED IN SCAMMING POOR TOURISTS?

Here in LOS that sounds like an oxymoron, but this lady in particular seems to be just a "tool" used by the BiB, as a fully uniformed officer screaming at them "they stole my mobile phone!" would probably not have the same effect...

In reply to Buuasard, the point is not to know what my nickname was or whatever, i am not looking for privileges that only apply to a few people, the system you are implementing is VERY wrong, people should be allowed to send private message to each others and as i already mentioned before and also waiting for a mod to vouch every single post before it goes online it's a bit too much obviously putting restrictions on just whom seems to creates issues was not the right thing to do for you, that would make that feeling of power over the rest of the users to vanish a bit isn't it?, those standards do not belongs to a western culture and make people look away for a more emancipate alternative...

Edited just to add some more details about a certain "camouflage"

Edited February 9, 2010 by surayu

[Sungram]

The Italian Embassy is in contact with the Thai lawyer in charge.

[Sungram]

The two Italians have got their hair cut by the prison barber which is a stardard process and are locked up with approx. 38 other inmates in one cell.

[Sungram]

Will be interested to see what the facts turn out

Second issue is if they are found to be 100% innocent they can go after the accuser for substantial damages

true! the video of evidence just needs to be released and watched by a jury. unfortunately the rights of handling material of evidence in a law case are not the same here in Thailand as in Western countries.

the way how the release of this video will be handled by the authorities will tell everybody the truth. if the video clearly pays evidence that one Italian has stolen a cell phone (and not only put his passport back into his pocket!), the authorities (judge) should not have any problems to publish this material. holding back this material of evidence any longer than neccessary must have a reason.

[jackdawson]

by grabbing her and slapping her face

no matter what the circumstances , this is a good way to get a beating from about the ten thai guys who in less than a minute would come to the woman's defense as soon as they saw a farang hitting her

terrible advice

[kelboy]

hi,

i just can't understand it.

if you go anywhere in Thailand you see phones laying around ie bars,shops,food stands etc.So why not just go there and the secondhand value is nothing.

But what worries me is the TAPE going for a walk, then they will be in the s..t.

[Sungram]

1. Why should they steal something while getting their money paid out they have waited on for three weeks to finally fly back home?

2. Why is there no evidence of the accused criminal act?

3. Why does nobody have searched them to find the "stolen cell phone"?

4. Why does police have not interviewed four witnesses but only the "victim"?

The two Italians are jailed now since one week for a crime with no evidence. Despite the fact if they did it or not, in what country do you have

to face such a harsh punishment for a bagatelle like this?

If law allows cases like this one, nobody should wonder if underpaid cops are getting "creative" on regular base. Curious to know if the they lend their uniforms to family members on weekends to go 50/50 on the extorted weekend money as it is very common in India.

[cobra]

by grabbing her and slapping her face

no matter what the circumstances , this is a good way to get a beating from about the ten thai guys who in less than a minute would come to the woman's defense as soon as they saw a farang hitting her

terrible advice

Concur, physically assaulting a Thai to elicit a reaction is a foolish gambit,

never make a bad situation worse, stay cool, situational awareness, etc.

[Puccini]

From the original post:

The medias (print & TV) and the Bangkok Anti-Corruption Department are already informed, Central Tourist Police hotline will get my call for help tomorrow and on Monday the Italian Department for Foreign Affairs will be contacted.

Hai fatto bene (translation: you died the right thing). I am usually sceptical when I read about Thai officials or police being accused of a scam but in this case I share the opinion that it was a setup, a scam.

[Puccini]

...after Seba and Noris have not paid the "under the table offer" of 30,000 THB the cops were convinced of them paying the

"official" bail of 150,000 THB to get out. the cops are extremely pissed now that Seba and Noris have also refused to pay this

sum. honestly, I believe the Ayutthaya police is getting more nervous with every day of having Seba and Noris sitting in prison...

I am sure you are right. They fear disciplinary action when their collaboration in the scam will be revealed, confirmed by a court ruling. What surprised me was that a judge remanded the two accused Italians into custody with such a high bail based on the evidence of the accusing woman and no evidence produced by the police, ie the lack of a search of the accused for the allegedly stolen phone. Based on that, a good judge should have thrown the case out right away and let the Italians go there way.

[tutsiwarrior]

this business is a real drag not just for the accused but for Ayutthaya which is a high profile tourist area...for legit tourists (families, etc) wanting to do normal tourist activities, i.e., ruins, UN world heritage site, etc...

shit like this will reduce the place to a small provincial shithole that is to be avoided...I hope those dumbfcuk cop somchais realise what they have done...

[Sungram]

It looks like Ayutthaya authorities are desperately withholding the evidential video and every party involved can "smell"

their motivation already.

Regarding "realising what the police did" is out of discussion. Otherwise they wouldn´t have sticked so long to their belive

(and I guess the person/s in charge still belive) that this scam could be processed without being noticed by public.

[tutsiwarrior]

It looks like Ayutthaya authorities are desperately withholding the evidential video and every party involved can "smell"

their motivation already.

Regarding "realising what the police did" is out of discussion. Otherwise they wouldn´t have sticked so long to their belive

(and I guess the person/s in charge still belive) that this scam could be processed without being noticed by public.

it's bound to come around and kick them in the ass when the accused are exonerated, mate...

the whole world is watching...

I use the Ayutthaya office for my immigration business and have seen that the place is presently a wholesome tourist attraction with families, etc.... that ain't likely to continue when the shit gets circulated...as in the present forum...

[AyG]

Any thoughts why there has been no coverage of this in the newspapers? (At least, I've not been able to find any - and I've checked both the English language and Thai presses.)

[Ciocco]

Any news?

[Sungram]

There was a court case/meeting held today in Ayhuttaya. Outcome: another offer! One Italian would/could be released if paying 75,000 THB.

As they and none of them around is having this amount of money the prison torture will go on for both of them.

May I remind: two Italian Nationals are held under arrest in Ayhuttaya prison for over two weeks now for being accused having stolen a cell phone. No evidential

material has been presented by police or other authorities yet.

It seems that it is urgently required that other forces are paying their attention to this case.

Obviously this extortional case of kidnapping has not really made enough publicity in order to been seriously understood as what it is: a harsh violation of human rights!

May I hereby ask in the name of Seba & Norris anyone who can help for further input & support!

Please feel free to contact me via personal message.

Edited February 19, 2010 by Sungram

[elcent]

they'd better get the bail together. It looks like a lengthy case emerging. I know this is close to sadism, but with a bit of luck and when they are out on bail they may leave the country and must come back to the hearings. There will be one or two a year, my guess.

[iSabai]

they'd better get the bail together. It looks like a lengthy case emerging. I know this is close to sadism, but with a bit of luck and when they are out on bail they may leave the country and must come back to the hearings. There will be one or two a year, my guess.

Honestly now, if you got out on bail would you return for hearings?? Even if they did steal the phone, 2 weeks in the monkey is far more punishment than a dammed phone is worth!

[lazyguy]

it looks like the Italian embassy is going to pay 150.000 THB to the Ayhuttaya court in order to release the two Italian nationals from prison soon.