Phuket Is A Great Holiday Destination

[billythehat]

Firstly, calling someone a retard, as I often do, (it seems to be my favourite word) is rude, therefor I was being hypercritical. Fair game, you got me on that one. Although there can be no disputing being rude to someone in the middle of a discussion/argument, can not possibly be compared to randomly opening threads to be rude to people for no apparent reason, as so many people do. That is surely retarded behaviour.

As for being in Thailand. I can't be blamed for thinking otherwise. I clearly remember a post where you said not only that you lived in England but that it was a much better place to live than Thailand. I would also be prepared to make a bet that if you honestly told us how much time over the last few years you spent in LOS it wouldn't amount to a great deal, which don't get me wrong, is only relevant when you are trying to tell someone, that has spent a lot more time here than that, that his perceptions of the place are wrong, and some sort of naive delusion.

As for me taking care of myself and my family, you obviously missed the point where I said that I haven't had a single problem, living here on and off for 9 years, and you definitely chose not to read 'Logbags' post where he said the exact same, yet over a vastly longer time scale. Or maybe you did read them, but decided that we're way to naive to know the harsh realities that you know. (What is it with that rose tinted glasses nonsense anyway?) To be honest, if you were someone that mattered, I would be extremely insulted and angry that you implied that I would knowingly put my family in any undue danger. But you're not, so I'm not.

To be perfectly honest, I enjoy disagreeing with 'LivinLOS' and other TV members a lot more than I enjoy disagreeing with you, so if it's all the same, I'll leave our interaction here. Although having some interaction with you is a lot better than your usual, jump in, be rude and obnoxious for no apparent reason, jump back out, approach to TV posts

Dear oh dear, you’re not very good at this are you?...off to a fine start and then fell at every fence there after...I’m not betting on a lame duck so save ya money...a few more smug posts and you may just get the hang of it...ah well...next..

Love,

Billy the confirmed British passport holder – never denied.

Favourite and best countries to have lived in (so far) – England, Ireland and Bavaria in Germany. I still want to go to Japan.

Does not own – Rose tinted specs.

[LivinginKata]

Ok, enough of the insults and name calling. Keep to the original topic about 'Phuket as a great holiday destination'.

Any more off-topic posts, insults, etc will removed and the topic closed.

[Valentine]

On occasion when friends visit Phuket they love it but then again I try to point them in the right direction & take them to places where I know they will have an enjoyable experience. I also warn them of potential scams. Most tourists probably have a great time but as it is the world over bad news is what grabs the spotlight which is usually just a tiny fraction of all the good news stories out there.

[LivinLOS]

All previous unnecessary bickering aside..

I would have to think, that going to ANY developing nation for a holiday is going to be less frustrating that having to deal with its (minor) drawbacks long term.. Just stands to reason that in a short vacation your going to see the high points.

[cotambear]

Quote 'LivinLOS' Why would I leave a country that offers so much, to come to a country where people have so very little, and then whine about such petty things, such as a poor bus service!

This is beyond naive, its plain stupidity. You present the `whinres` as old ladies who complain to their local paper in farangland about the local bus service.

You really dont get it do you. The tuk tuk gross gouging is quite simply criminal extortion. The skim money goes to the police and is in turn passed right to the top.

In return the criminals get virtual carte blanche to do as they will. More criminal elements get sucked in to patong for the perceived easy money. The criminal fraternity that is sucked in creates more robbers and thieves, more blackhearts with a sneer not a smile.

If the tuk tuk scum dont get their way they threaten and use violence. The police look the other way unless a very big incident happens to hit the farang newspapers.

The appearance is given that something will be done, and then it is all forgotten. JJ, the jetski man who produced a gun to extort money for damages is back on the beach.

And you know what, its the poorest thais who suffer the most as they are denied one of the basic infrastructures, cheap public transport.

Sooner or later one of these vermin will murder someone. Will that then convince you that there is a problem?

[cotambear]

Quote 'LivinLOS' Why would I leave a country that offers so much, to come to a country where people have so very little, and then whine about such petty things, such as a poor bus service!

This is beyond naive, its plain stupidity. You present the `whinres` as old ladies who complain to their local paper in farangland about the local bus service.

You really dont get it do you. The tuk tuk gross gouging is quite simply criminal extortion. The skim money goes to the police and is in turn passed right to the top.

In return the criminals get virtual carte blanche to do as they will. More criminal elements get sucked in to patong for the perceived easy money. The criminal fraternity that is sucked in creates more robbers and thieves, more blackhearts with a sneer not a smile.

If the tuk tuk scum dont get their way they threaten and use violence. The police look the other way unless a very big incident happens to hit the farang newspapers.

The appearance is given that something will be done, and then it is all forgotten. JJ, the jetski man who produced a gun to extort money for damages is back on the beach.

And you know what, its the poorest thais who suffer the most as they are denied one of the basic infrastructures, cheap public transport.

Sooner or later one of these vermin will murder someone. Will that then convince you that there is a problem?

This was not aimed a LIVINLOS, but woohoohoo who quouted him, my appologies for confusion.

[logbags]

And you know what, its the poorest thais who suffer the most as they are denied one of the basic infrastructures, cheap public transport.

## Well I don't know, there are buses running daily into town and back from every beach for no more than 25 baht. An air-con bus is available to every province and they are extremely cheap. Trains run the length of the nation and are also very cheap. Even air travel in Thailand is very reasonable.

Tuk Tuks in Patong and other tourist night spots are the problem. Don't confuse two seperate issues. The bus from Phuket to Nakhon Sri Thammarart is only 375 baht or about $10 USD for a 6 hour trip on a nice roomy air con bus. Public transport in most provinces is very good and very cheap.

[WOOHOO]

All previous unnecessary bickering aside..

I would have to think, that going to ANY developing nation for a holiday is going to be less frustrating that having to deal with its (minor) drawbacks long term.. Just stands to reason that in a short vacation your going to see the high points.

Maybe that's it. After another simple, but great day in Phuket, (out for breakfast, a couple of hours and lunch at my favourite beach, then home via the market for dinner and a bit of live footy on the telly) something occurred to me. My life in Phuket has changed very little since the days when I was a tourist. Maybe that's why I'm on such a different wave length to a lot of other TV members. Perhaps it's trying to have a life here similar to that in the west that causes all the grief. Maybe it's working here, running a business, sitting in traffic on the way to and from work, not having quite enough money to do the things you would like, and being too busy and tired to do them any way. Maybe that's why my perceptions are different. People say Phuket is a great place to holiday, but....... For me there is no but. I am on holiday, I just don't go home after two weeks. Maybe it's when people want to be recognised as more than just tourists, that they start drawing attention to themselves, and start to have run ins with locals. Who knows. Who really cares. Knowing what it feels like to be stressed and frustrated and victimised in Phuket will have to wait another day because it didn't happen again today. Although having said that, I did order a San Miguel with my lunch and they served me a San Miguel Light! But hey, I could do with losing a pound or two anyway.

[cotambear]

And you know what, its the poorest thais who suffer the most as they are denied one of the basic infrastructures, cheap public transport.

## Well I don't know, there are buses running daily into town and back from every beach for no more than 25 baht. An air-con bus is available to every province and they are extremely cheap. Trains run the length of the nation and are also very cheap. Even air travel in Thailand is very reasonable.

Tuk Tuks in Patong and other tourist night spots are the problem. Don't confuse two seperate issues. The bus from Phuket to Nakhon Sri Thammarart is only 375 baht or about $10 USD for a 6 hour trip on a nice roomy air con bus. Public transport in most provinces is very good and very cheap.

Of course public transport in the provinces is cheap, its not run by the tuk tuk gang. How do the poorest thais without even a scooter get from patong to karon for example? How do they get from one end of patong to the other? Dont tell me the motosai taxis are cheap, a ride takes a big chunk out of the thai minmum wage.

[TaoNow]

Cotambear: you just don't get it. The poorest Thais in Phuket don't travel from "Patong to Karon". They are working on wage-labor assignments in their locality and just want to save enough money to take some back home.

I totally agree with logbags. I have travelled to every province in Thailand (in addition to 40 countries around the world) and have never seen a provincial bus service as good as Thailand's. You can go from any province to any other province in a day. From there you can get to any district in less than a few hours. Where else in the world can you do this -- exccept, perhaps, in an island-state like Singapore?

Over to you.

[billythehat]

All previous unnecessary bickering aside..

I would have to think, that going to ANY developing nation for a holiday is going to be less frustrating that having to deal with its (minor) drawbacks long term.. Just stands to reason that in a short vacation your going to see the high points.

Sir, I can agree with you slightly here as I'd already made the point, "no amount of cloying rhetoric and patronising waffle will disguise the reality of any demograph you care to mention" in an earlier post to a resident Thai spokesperson. However, I cannot agree that what you consider 'minor' drawbacks are anything but minor in cause and effect. Valentine says he tries to point his guests in the right direction and offers advice about avoiding the scum, but sadly his sage guidance is not always available to the vast majority of visitors.

LOS: "Just stands to reason that in a short vacation your going to see the high points."...yes, quite a reasonable statement, but equally you are just as likely to be exposed to the low points too. A wee bit of advance reading up will/does help on any chosen holiday destination – Phuket being the theme on this thread. Most guide books for obvious commercial reasons, are hopeless regarding certain realities of any given destination and hence the value of websites that offer forums to discuss such, whether this upsets the incumbent inmates with vested commercial interests or not.

[WOOHOO]

You present the `whinres` as old ladies who complain to their local paper in farangland about the local bus service.

It sounds pretty similar to me, when you hear it day in day out. Yes, quite a good comparison.

I personally haven't been in a Phuket Tuk tuk for about 6 years and haven't physically seen one for at least three days, so maybe you need to be better at avoiding the things that upset you.

As mentioned, the bus service runs to and from all areas, the only limitation, is not being able to go down the coast, and having to go in to town first. Hardly the end of the world.

What exactly is it you are looking for? Someone to piggy back you from one end of Bangla to the other perhaps.

When you move somewhere you take it as it, warts and all. How is it that the problem is big enough to moan about constantly, but not so big that you need to move away, or not have moved here in the first place? It seems like it's the perfect sized problem for you. You get to live here and have something to moan about every day.

[pagallim]

Sir, I can agree with you slightly here as I'd already made the point, "no amount of cloying rhetoric and patronising waffle will disguise the reality of any demograph you care to mention" in an earlier post to a resident Thai spokesperson. However, I cannot agree that what you consider 'minor' drawbacks are anything but minor in cause and effect. Valentine says he tries to point his guests in the right direction and offers advice about avoiding the scum, but sadly his sage guidance is not always available to the vast majority of visitors.

LOS: "Just stands to reason that in a short vacation your going to see the high points."...yes, quite a reasonable statement, but equally you are just as likely to be exposed to the low points too. A wee bit of advance reading up will/does help on any chosen holiday destination – Phuket being the theme on this thread. Most guide books for obvious commercial reasons, are hopeless regarding certain realities of any given destination and hence the value of websites that offer forums to discuss such, whether this upsets the incumbent inmates with vested commercial interests or not.

I almost convinced myself not to become embroiled in this type of debate (and I'm sure I'll attract some comments to further this advice), however, I do see your point Billy. As equally I'm sure that you understand the points being made by those of us who are residents.

Sure, maybe there are commercial interests involved with some of the local posters, but that's countered by those of us who have none (commercial interests that is). I think though that the common theme is that whilst we acknowledge problem areas (pick a card - tuk/tuk's, jet ski's, farang charging etc etc etc), as residents we avoid those because we have the knowledge and facilities (principally transport) that it's not an issue for us. Incidents of burglary, mugging etc obviously are, because we're all potential targets. Sharing information is important, particularly in an environment such as this that is news suppressed.

On a purely personal level, I think Phuket is a great place. The range of services, attractions, quality of life etc, for me, match anything in the world. But, all depends what kind of life you want. Mine is not the west coast beach/nightlife style of living, so maybe that helps.

[cotambear]

You present the `whinres` as old ladies who complain to their local paper in farangland about the local bus service.

It sounds pretty similar to me, when you hear it day in day out. Yes, quite a good comparison.

I personally haven't been in a Phuket Tuk tuk for about 6 years and haven't physically seen one for at least three days, so maybe you need to be better at avoiding the things that upset you.

As mentioned, the bus service runs to and from all areas, the only limitation, is not being able to go down the coast, and having to go in to town first. Hardly the end of the world.

What exactly is it you are looking for? Someone to piggy back you from one end of Bangla to the other perhaps.

When you move somewhere you take it as it, warts and all. How is it that the problem is big enough to moan about constantly, but not so big that you need to move away, or not have moved here in the first place? It seems like it's the perfect sized problem for you. You get to live here and have something to moan about every day.

Interesting that you have avoided the question of corruption, threats and violence. I wonder why?

Edited February 21, 2010 by cotambear

[cotambear]

You present the `whinres` as old ladies who complain to their local paper in farangland about the local bus service.

It sounds pretty similar to me, when you hear it day in day out. Yes, quite a good comparison.

I personally haven't been in a Phuket Tuk tuk for about 6 years and haven't physically seen one for at least three days, so maybe you need to be better at avoiding the things that upset you.

As mentioned, the bus service runs to and from all areas, the only limitation, is not being able to go down the coast, and having to go in to town first. Hardly the end of the world.

What exactly is it you are looking for? Someone to piggy back you from one end of Bangla to the other perhaps.

When you move somewhere you take it as it, warts and all. How is it that the problem is big enough to moan about constantly, but not so big that you need to move away, or not have moved here in the first place? It seems like it's the perfect sized problem for you. You get to live here and have something to moan about every day.

Reasonably priced transport. Is that clear enough?

[cotambear]

Cotambear: you just don't get it. The poorest Thais in Phuket don't travel from "Patong to Karon". They are working on wage-labor assignments in their locality and just want to save enough money to take some back home.

I totally agree with logbags. I have travelled to every province in Thailand (in addition to 40 countries around the world) and have never seen a provincial bus service as good as Thailand's. You can go from any province to any other province in a day. From there you can get to any district in less than a few hours. Where else in the world can you do this -- exccept, perhaps, in an island-state like Singapore?

Over to you.

Yes, because they cant afford it. Do you get it now?

[LivinLOS]

Perhaps it's trying to have a life here similar to that in the west that causes all the grief.

Without doubt for me thats a big part of it (for me).. The more 'thai style' you can go the less the friction hits..

But once you want high end electronics you have constant battles with poor electric (my speakers recently blew cones, those are high 4 figure USD items.. Highly annoying !!), you hit the corrupt customs problems when you import your items, you get bent over by the corruption becuase they see a farang can pay it, I already know this coming week I am going to get bent over, I have a race spec engine shipped from the US to customs clear, I know what I legally should pay but whats the bet its many multiples of the actual law ?? Anyway I just accept I am going to get screwed and have to pay the piper, but it does make all the 'Thailands cheap' comments ring hollow when so many of my passtimes and hobbies cost 2x - 5x what it would to enjoy them elsewhere. A day or two argueing with the customs office when they have your stuff is a great way to see the ugly side !!

For the first few years I lived here I was totally a non consumer, I gave up the rolex and fast car consumption of my early 20's when I came here with the first wife, but over the years you find you (or at least I find I) miss it. Theres also the aspect that its easy to 'fall behind' of whats happening in the real world, you get complacent and are out of the loop of innovation and technology. Theres the danger of falling out of touch with some of that buzz and I didnt understand that in the first few years. Recent trips back to the west have made me appreciate the buzz of running a (real) biz again, etc..

[LivinLOS]

Cotambear: you just don't get it. The poorest Thais in Phuket don't travel from "Patong to Karon". They are working on wage-labor assignments in their locality and just want to save enough money to take some back home.

I totally agree with logbags. I have travelled to every province in Thailand (in addition to 40 countries around the world) and have never seen a provincial bus service as good as Thailand's. You can go from any province to any other province in a day. From there you can get to any district in less than a few hours. Where else in the world can you do this -- exccept, perhaps, in an island-state like Singapore?

Over to you.

Your talking inter provincial..

But most day to day travel isnt long distance, its short hop.. And Thais are effectively denied this for a lot of where they may need to go.

[cotambear]

You can smell the sh!t, eat the sh!t or remove the sh!tters. Up to us all I think.

[LivinLOS]

You present the `whinres` as old ladies who complain to their local paper in farangland about the local bus service.

It sounds pretty similar to me, when you hear it day in day out. Yes, quite a good comparison.

I personally haven't been in a Phuket Tuk tuk for about 6 years and haven't physically seen one for at least three days, so maybe you need to be better at avoiding the things that upset you.

As mentioned, the bus service runs to and from all areas, the only limitation, is not being able to go down the coast, and having to go in to town first. Hardly the end of the world.

What exactly is it you are looking for? Someone to piggy back you from one end of Bangla to the other perhaps.

When you move somewhere you take it as it, warts and all. How is it that the problem is big enough to moan about constantly, but not so big that you need to move away, or not have moved here in the first place? It seems like it's the perfect sized problem for you. You get to live here and have something to moan about every day.

Personally for me it isnt the lack of a bus service..

Its the fact that cartels are allowed to operate outside the law, to threaten and intmidate.. That this is tolerated (becuase of kickbacks).. This attitude spreads and permeates.. From tuktuks to touts.. Its increasing the idea that 'anything that you do is OK as long as it makes money' it increases the tolerance of crime against farangs.. Once the mindset takes hold the chance of peaceful trade and integration and assimilation become harder, theres a mode defined 'them and us' vibe which is saddening.

Its THESE aspects of the cartels thats disturbing.. Not the visible result of a beaten up bus driver or a blockaded hotel.

I admit, if you live in the north, you probably dont see these aspects, hence have difficulty understanding the issue.

[WOOHOO]

Interesting that you have avoided the question of corruption, threats and violence. I wonder why?

I didn't avoid it. I made reference to it with the 'warts and all' comment. Unless you've been here longer than they have, you knew what you were signing up for.

I still maintain that the problem is a fraction of the size it's been blown in to. When you've got posters on TV that don't live here and spend very little time here, constantly harping on about it, then it no longer gets discussed accurately. I have never denied that there is a huge rogue element among the Tuk tuk drivers and in an ideal world something would be done about it. My argument has always been, that they are there for tourists, and the vast majority of tourists use them without a single problem, and are more than happy to pay tourist prices, (why wouldn't they, that's what they are?) Then you have residence complaining that there are no alternatives for them. Watch this space, my piggy back business is on it's way.

Talking of avoiding questions. Care to explain why people who have so many issues with a place continue to live there, or move there in the first place?

Edited February 21, 2010 by WOOHOO

[LivinLOS]

Interesting that you have avoided the question of corruption, threats and violence. I wonder why?

I didn't avoid it. I made reference to it with the 'warts and all' comment. Unless you've been here longer than they have, you knew what you were signing up for.

Sorry, the problems have doubled post tsunami and tuktuk issues / conflict doubled again post the one way system..

There were maybe 5 or 10 touts a year or two ago.. Now theres 100 plus (paying 1000 baht per month to the police)..

Back in 2000 these issues were not here.. Painting them as being a fixture since the dark ages is not haveing a real grasp of how it is now on the west coast, it wasnt like this even 2 years ago. And relatively OK maybe 5+.

[LivinLOS]

Talking of avoiding questions. Care to explain why people who have so many issues with a place continue to live there, or move there in the first place?

Well as you now have a young family.. How happy would your wife truly be in the west ??? No family.. No friends.. No Thai food..

How about once you child is in school, so easy to uproot that, change his curriculum, freinds, languages, etc..

Me I have a passport that lets me go anywhere.. I can go live in the gold coast, or NZ, or the states, or or.. But my wife cant.

Its not so simple.

Plus I love my life, but I just see many changes in the last few years that are not for the better, and that worries me..

[LivinginKata]

Ok, I'll try again. The question was "Phuket is a great holiday destination'

Now that the topic has managed to reach page 4, it has turned into an issue about locals view of living here and the usual slanging between some members.

Start a new topic about those issues you all have about local life here. The potential tourists who might be attracted to the topic header won't want to read through all the last 2 pages of bickering.

This topic is about all discussed out ... soon be closed ...

[LivinLOS]

But the OP specifically asked why locals living here have that view ??

Are we not allowed to explain ??

No ones insulting each other.. WooHoo especially seems perfectly able to debate his views, and I would happily buy him a beer to do so face to face. Theres no ill will in any statements from me.

Edited February 21, 2010 by LivinLOS

[WOOHOO]

Back in 2000 these issues were not here.. Painting them as being a fixture since the dark ages is not haveing a real grasp of how it is now on the west coast, it wasnt like this even 2 years ago. And relatively OK maybe 5+.

If that's the case then people need to start voting with there feet. Either to different parts of Phuket, different parts of Thailand or somewhere else in the world. Things change, not always for the good, deal with it and move on.

Your problem (which you happily admit) is you want your som tum and to eat it too. It seems as though for your happiness something is going to have to give, and that may well be, not living in Phuket anymore. (I wish I could afford to have your dilemma)

At least you don't have issues with other people being happy, and accept that they are. The posters that don't live here yet seem to think people must be lying when they say they have no grief in Phuket and live an enjoyable peaceful life, is baffling to me.

[LivinginKata]

But the OP specifically asked why locals living here have that view ??

The OP is a troll and is well known to TV for stirring up the 'locals'. You are all being strung along.

[WOOHOO]

Well as you now have a young family.. How happy would your wife truly be in the west ??? No family.. No friends.. No Thai food..

How about once you child is in school, so easy to uproot that, change his curriculum, freinds, languages, etc..

Me I have a passport that lets me go anywhere.. I can go live in the gold coast, or NZ, or the states, or or.. But my wife cant.

Its not so simple.

Plus I love my life, but I just see many changes in the last few years that are not for the better, and that worries me..

You just answered my post before I'd even written it!! Clever.

Agree that post is back on topic and being conducted with no ill feeling.

Who cares about the O.P I'm not talking to him anymore.

[pagallim]

But the OP specifically asked why locals living here have that view ??

The OP is a troll and is well known to TV for stirring up the 'locals'. You are all being strung along.

Agree, fairly obvious from the outset. However, it's stimulated an interesting debate, but one that at least LivinLOS and WOOHOO have conducted sensibly. Sometimes think, if it's so bad a place to live, then leave. Pretty simple really.

[cotambear]

Back in 2000 these issues were not here.. Painting them as being a fixture since the dark ages is not haveing a real grasp of how it is now on the west coast, it wasnt like this even 2 years ago. And relatively OK maybe 5+.

If that's the case then people need to start voting with there feet. Either to different parts of Phuket, different parts of Thailand or somewhere else in the world. Things change, not always for the good, deal with it and move on.

Your problem (which you happily admit) is you want your som tum and to eat it too. It seems as though for your happiness something is going to have to give, and that may well be, not living in Phuket anymore. (I wish I could afford to have your dilemma)

At least you don't have issues with other people being happy, and accept that they are. The posters that don't live here yet seem to think people must be lying when they say they have no grief in Phuket and live an enjoyable peaceful life, is baffling to me.

I dont want to pay 200 baht for a som tum made by a drunken thug who might then suddenly decide that the price has gone up to 400 and if I dont pay it then I`ll get hit over the head with a machette.