VL...I just edited my post to you...I mention this because I see you in the thread now and may have read only the original.

Actuallu UG, I have had enough of you calling me a liar. You have not once been able to show that I have lied, yet you continually harp on about it....and harp on about it as if lying is the only thing I do.

Stop it now. You demean yourself.

All true, but now he will respond with a bunch of untruths, half-truths and illogical nonsense - using words that he does not understand - and he will absolutely positive that he really showed you.

Pearls before swine, I am afraid.

Has chuckd taken over UG's membership?

You're certainly sounding like him now.

You got the wrong end of the stick and won't admit it.

Fine. Just ignore me.....but if you are going to ignore me, have the decency not to refer to me either. That is cowardly....to make jibes but not be available for responses.

This description seems to fit our Kiwi friend.

"In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response[1] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[2]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)

"Honor" killings of young girls and women certainly are!

that happened in old Europe too. but then christianity is several centuries older and honour killings were abolished. give the Muslims a few centuries too to reach that status.

Are you saying Muslims aren't as evolved as Christians?

of course they are not as evolved. name any muslim state that -before they oil/commodity boom- was not dirt poor and who's population was not 99% illiterate. except for the states on the arabian peninsula south of Syria (Yemen being an exception) the present states' majority population is still dirt poor or just plain poor and, most important, uneducated without access to unbiased media (e.g. Thaivisa ) . this applies especially to Afghanistan, Pakistan, Bangla Desh, Sudan and all "Sahel Belt" states.

the Christians in Europe were till the 17th-18th century completely uneducated and victims of what the bloody priesthood with threats of devil and hel_l taught as well as the orders of their rulers. a similar situation exists today in the states i mentioned except that the threats and misinformation is handed out in Mosques and not churches; not to forget -amongst others-the ultra-orthodox Wahhabi rulers in Riyadh.

"Evovled" in that sense, I can pretty much agree with.

We know why there are no Nazie terrorists for they like to see the torture first hand rather than shoot down planes or fly them into buildings. Or perhaps the Nazies are not sophisticated enough. What do you think Naam? You seem to have some special knowledge about this topic.

-when the Nazi regime ended i was 15 months old. my knowledge has faded since then and i can't help out. to the best of my knowledge Nazi terrorists never existed but Nazi criminals existed galore.

Pretty sad if folks are branded by their birth countries prior mistakes.

Also makes you wonder about those being born today in various countries.

Do they also inherit their countries atrocities? Hope not...don't they call that lumping or pigeon holing ?

If you are going around accusing other posters of being "Jews" just because they disagree with you, you are going to get some unflattering attention from more decent posters, no matter what country you are from.

20 000 died in Bopal due to American company executives, (and thousands more alive and still suffering today)......but there is no prejudice towards Dupont. The American government protects those responsible by refusing to allow their extradition to India.....One could say that the natives of Bobal suffered an extirmination of a significant proportion of their population, yet the perpetrators are protected by the US.

I thought it was Union Carbide.

And 20,000 is a helluva lot of people but it isn't a significant part of nearly 1 billion (back then).

My mistake...Union Carbide.

So it comes down to numbers? More jews died so every other group that has been tragically killed are not worthy of the same protections?

YOU brought up numbers. I was just pointing out that 20,000 is not - as you claimed - a significant proportion of India's population. Back in 1984 the population was around 800,000. Of that, 20,000 would be only 0.0025%.

And they weren't "exterminated". It was a gas leak. Your use of the word would indicate you put the people on par with roaches or vermin. Again, another example of America-hatrers "taking up the cause" of someone they care little about just for the opportunity to attack the US.

Ok, "atheist" was a poor choice. My point is that anti-semitism is a crime, yet other bigotries are not, or at least not as heinous a crime.

The point is not about forming a prejudice against a company....it is that even though the company (Union Carbide I have been corrected) negligently caused these deaths, the people responsible are protected from justice by the American government.

Anti-semitism isn't a crime. Bigotry isn't a crime. Anywhere in the world you can hate anyone you want. The crime comes into play when you act upon your hate.

20 000 died in Bopal due to American company executives, (and thousands more alive and still suffering today)......but there is no prejudice towards Dupont.

I thought it was Union Carbide.

And 20,000 is a helluva lot of people but it isn't a significant part of nearly 1 billion (back then).

So it comes down to numbers? More jews died so every other group that has been tragically killed are not worthy of the same protections?

And they weren't "exterminated". It was a gas leak. Your use of the word would indicate you put the people on par with roaches or vermin. Again, another example of America-hatrers "taking up the cause" of someone they care little about just for the opportunity to attack the US.

He also seems to go on and on about how "unfair" it is that most people regret the slaughtering of millions of Jews.

Ironic isn't it? BTW, if you wish for me to explain irony to you, well - you know about Google so figure it out for yourself.

Isn't the American and British definition of irony different? To me, irony is when the fire station burns down. I've heard Brits use it as a synonym to sarcasm.

Also your claim that there are "plenty" of holocaust deniers. Not in my part of the world.

No offense, but aren't you in New Zealand? That's pretty far away from just about everything.

According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_population, there are less than 8,000 in all of NZ or just 0.17% of the population. I doubt the Holocaust is even much of an issue down there - except maybe for the people who over shot Argentina after the war.

We know why there are no Nazie terrorists for they like to see the torture first hand rather than shoot down planes or fly them into buildings. Or perhaps the Nazies are not sophisticated enough. What do you think Naam? You seem to have some special knowledge about this topic.

-when the Nazi regime ended i was 15 months old. my knowledge has faded since then and i can't help out. to the best of my knowledge Nazi terrorists never existed but Nazi criminals existed galore.

Pretty sad if folks are branded by their birth countries prior mistakes.

Also makes you wonder about those being born today in various countries.

Do they also inherit their countries atrocities? Hope not...don't they call that lumping or pigeon holing ?

If you were an American living abroad you would be used to it.

20 000 died in Bopal due to American company executives, (and thousands more alive and still suffering today)......but there is no prejudice towards Dupont. The American government protects those responsible by refusing to allow their extradition to India.....One could say that the natives of Bobal suffered an extirmination of a significant proportion of their population, yet the perpetrators are protected by the US.

I thought it was Union Carbide.

And 20,000 is a helluva lot of people but it isn't a significant part of nearly 1 billion (back then).

My mistake...Union Carbide.

So it comes down to numbers? More jews died so every other group that has been tragically killed are not worthy of the same protections?

YOU brought up numbers. I was just pointing out that 20,000 is not - as you claimed - a significant proportion of India's population. Back in 1984 the population was around 800,000. Of that, 20,000 would be only 0.0025%.

And they weren't "exterminated". It was a gas leak. Your use of the word would indicate you put the people on par with roaches or vermin. Again, another example of America-hatrers "taking up the cause" of someone they care little about just for the opportunity to attack the US.

When did I claim anything about the significance of the numbers? I certainly did not claim that 20 000 is a significant proportion of India's population, so your statistics are pointless. 20 000 is definitely a significant proportion of Bopal's population, however.

My stance is that a large number of humans died in one instance that is forgotten by many, and those responsible for the deaths remain technically "innocent" (due to the protection of the US government), yet when a large number of another group dies, for some reason it becomes detestable to say anything against that group ever after.....it's as if the holocaust has given the Jews immunity from reproach, and the US government appears to support this.

No man is an island.

Also your claim that there are "plenty" of holocaust deniers. Not in my part of the world.

No offense, but aren't you in New Zealand? That's pretty far away from just about everything.

According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_population, there are less than 8,000 in all of NZ or just 0.17% of the population. I doubt the Holocaust is even much of an issue down there - except maybe for the people who over shot Argentina after the war.

OK, you may have a point....So what? What has that point got to do with the quote in context? Read back, and read the entire conversation.

Ironic isn't it? BTW, if you wish for me to explain irony to you, well - you know about Google so figure it out for yourself.

Isn't the American and British definition of irony different? To me, irony is when the fire station burns down. I've heard Brits use it as a synonym to sarcasm.

I expect that the Brit use is the same as the Antipodean use....and it isn't anything like sarcasm. It is indeed simmilar to the firehouse burning down. VL used it with good intent, though with poor execution when he tried to say MY use of the word "spurious" was spurious.

He also seems to go on and on about how "unfair" it is that most people regret the slaughtering of millions of Jews.

Spin and twisting of words. As I said in another post, if you are going to ignore me, at least have the decency to not refer to me either...it's cowardly.

Ok, "atheist" was a poor choice. My point is that anti-semitism is a crime, yet other bigotries are not, or at least not as heinous a crime.

The point is not about forming a prejudice against a company....it is that even though the company (Union Carbide I have been corrected) negligently caused these deaths, the people responsible are protected from justice by the American government.

Anti-semitism isn't a crime. Bigotry isn't a crime. Anywhere in the world you can hate anyone you want. The crime comes into play when you act upon your hate.

Semantics. Acting upon anti-semitic feelings is a more hienous crime than acting upon any other bigotry. I think Germany has the strictest anti-semitism regulations enshrined in law.

If you were an American living abroad you would be used to it.

I am a US citizen & live abroad part of the year.

Happy to say I have not had to get use to it as I have not been subjected to it.

Thai's seem to like my background

If you were an American living abroad you would be used to it.

Happy to say I have not had to get use to it as I have not been subjected to it.

It is mostly on the Internet and when someone is busy bashing America themself, they might not notice other people doing it.

If you were an American living abroad you would be used to it.

Happy to say I have not had to get use to it as I have not been subjected to it.

It is mostly on the Internet and when someone is busy bashing America themself, they might not notice other people doing it.

That does not make much sense in regards to Koheesti's post to which I was replying. Not surprising coming from you....But if you say so it must be so ...for you at least.

As for myself it is as I said.

Also I do know the difference between someone who is American living in America who has gripes with a government/FED Reserve/military industrial complex gone wild. I do not confuse that with claims of anti American drivel which you like to trot out so often. Because We The People Are America.

For a simpler easier to... comprehend explanation...see my previous post to Harcourt in the other thread about folks like yourself who have to claim that anyone discussing green problems must hate red. This is where you like to take things because it is simplistic.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Alexander-Ha...34#entry3373134

Then again....why am I trying to explain this to an X-pat?

Ironic isn't it? BTW, if you wish for me to explain irony to you, well - you know about Google so figure it out for yourself.

Isn't the American and British definition of irony different? To me, irony is when the fire station burns down. I've heard Brits use it as a synonym to sarcasm.

I expect that the Brit use is the same as the Antipodean use....and it isn't anything like sarcasm. It is indeed simmilar to the firehouse burning down. VL used it with good intent, though with poor execution when he tried to say MY use of the word "spurious" was spurious.

Do you actually ever read the previous posts to which you refer? It does not appear that you do. I'll break it down for you.

Here is what I said: "You made a claim (which turned out to be false, i.e. spurious) following your statement "Apparently you're a lawyer......You make some very spurious arguments." Ironic isn't it?"

The statement that you made was that "20 000 died in Bopal due to American company executives, (and thousands more alive and still suffering today)......but there is no prejudice towards Dupont. The company was Union Carbide. So you were mistaken, hence your statement was spurious.

Irony in this case was you, who made a spurious statement, referred to me as one who makes 'very spurious arguments'. Understand?

With regard to you correcting my contention that there are no Jewish terrorists, I agree. I was incorrect.

Venturalaw, my claim that you made spurious arguments was not an insult. I can not see how that is insulting. Shall I dredge up the dictionary definition of "insult"? But if you are genuinely insulted by it, then sorry, it was not my intention to insult you. Somehow, I suspect that you were not genuinely insulted but chose to pounce upon it as a way of creating some belligerance with me as the original perpetrator.

Heaven knows why.

Your spurious argument was "....Anti-Semitic, anti-Christian or anti-Islam, as will as any racist statement, are all equally offensive...." because anti-semitism is generally seen throughout the West as much worse. This is common knowledge.

Also your claim that there are "plenty" of holocaust deniers. Not in my part of the world.

But mainly it was your last paragraph which did not actuall address my point.

No you didn't have to define "spurious" to me, nor will you need to define "irony", as I suspect you well know but are just trying to make a dig. I don't know why.

Another thing I'll point out to you: I refuted your claim that there are no Jewish terrorists. A gentleman or a real man, would have conceded that he hade been mistaken. It seems to be a symptom of the right-wingers that they never admit their own folly or mistakes.

Claiming that one is not genuine or real (spurious) is an insult. Perhaps in your world it is not.

What is interesting here is that you initially apologized, and then followed it up with another insult ("I suspect that you were not genuinely insulted", i.e. I lack sincerity, not real, spurious) and topped it off with that you were victimized (I "chose to pounce upon it as a way of creating some belligerance with me as the original perpetrator").

Really well done HC.

That's sarcasm.

Guilty as charged.

Then again....why am I trying to explain this to an X-pat?

I lived in America most of my life and I moved to Thailand to see what it is like and I enjoy it. It had nothing to do with disliking the USA. It is interesting that someone who does nothing but snivel and whine and cry about how terrible America is - all over the internet - wants to question anyone else's loyalty.

Since you seem very unaware, both Bill Clinton and President Obama lived overseas for part of their lives, but both are still Americans.

In fact, they are much better Americans than some people who have lived there all of their lives, but never stop complaining about it.

When did I claim anything about the significance of the numbers? I certainly did not claim that 20 000 is a significant proportion of India's population, so your statistics are pointless. 20 000 is definitely a significant proportion of Bopal's population, however.

My stance is that a large number of humans died in one instance that is forgotten by many, and those responsible for the deaths remain technically "innocent" (due to the protection of the US government), yet when a large number of another group dies, for some reason it becomes detestable to say anything against that group ever after.....it's as if the holocaust has given the Jews immunity from reproach, and the US government appears to support this.

No man is an island.

Yes, you are correct. You did say Bhopal, not all of India. Sorry 'bout that. You are the one who first mentioned "significant" in relation to the numbers.

The 20,000 didn't die all at once though, that's over years. Less than 4,000 died in that "one instance". UC also paid about half a billion dollars from what I've read.

20,000 died is not remembered as mch as 6 million? Bhopal was an accident. The Holocaust was planned. I certainly hope you can see the difference.

Ok, "atheist" was a poor choice. My point is that anti-semitism is a crime, yet other bigotries are not, or at least not as heinous a crime.

The point is not about forming a prejudice against a company....it is that even though the company (Union Carbide I have been corrected) negligently caused these deaths, the people responsible are protected from justice by the American government.

Anti-semitism isn't a crime. Bigotry isn't a crime. Anywhere in the world you can hate anyone you want. The crime comes into play when you act upon your hate.

Semantics. Acting upon anti-semitic feelings is a more hienous crime than acting upon any other bigotry. I think Germany has the strictest anti-semitism regulations enshrined in law.

I think it depends on the history of the group to be honest. Anti-semitism in Germany led to million of them being murdered. Hence, being an anti-semite is worse than being anti-Christian. In America, blacks by the millions suffered through slavery for hundreds of years. Hence, using a word like "niggardly" might get you punched if you use it in the wrong company.

If you were an American living abroad you would be used to it.

I am a US citizen & live abroad part of the year.

Happy to say I have not had to get use to it as I have not been subjected to it.

Thai's seem to like my background

Well, Thais are notorious for not knowing about what's going on beyond their borders. Next time ask your Thai friends what they think of American policies in Central America in the 1980s. I'm a US citizen and have spent over 14 of the past 16 years living abroad in several different countries in 3 different parts of the globe. Places where the people are more aware of American history so my experiences differ from yours.

If you were an American living abroad you would be used to it.

I am a US citizen & live abroad part of the year.

Happy to say I have not had to get use to it as I have not been subjected to it.

Thai's seem to like my background

Well, Thais are notorious for not knowing about what's going on beyond their borders. Next time ask your Thai friends what they think of American policies in Central America in the 1980s. I'm a US citizen and have spent over 14 of the past 16 years living abroad in several different countries in 3 different parts of the globe. Places where the people are more aware of American history so my experiences differ from yours.

That is a timely reminder to me, and I hope to some others here that we all are different, and have had different life experiences, hence different points of view.

Ironic isn't it? BTW, if you wish for me to explain irony to you, well - you know about Google so figure it out for yourself.

Isn't the American and British definition of irony different? To me, irony is when the fire station burns down. I've heard Brits use it as a synonym to sarcasm.

I expect that the Brit use is the same as the Antipodean use....and it isn't anything like sarcasm. It is indeed simmilar to the firehouse burning down. VL used it with good intent, though with poor execution when he tried to say MY use of the word "spurious" was spurious.

Do you actually ever read the previous posts to which you refer? It does not appear that you do. I'll break it down for you.

Here is what I said: "You made a claim (which turned out to be false, i.e. spurious) following your statement "Apparently you're a lawyer......You make some very spurious arguments." Ironic isn't it?"

The statement that you made was that "20 000 died in Bopal due to American company executives, (and thousands more alive and still suffering today)......but there is no prejudice towards Dupont. The company was Union Carbide. So you were mistaken, hence your statement was spurious.

Irony in this case was you, who made a spurious statement, referred to me as one who makes 'very spurious arguments'. Understand?

With regard to you correcting my contention that there are no Jewish terrorists, I agree. I was incorrect.

I think you need to comprehend the word "spurious". It does not mean "incorrect" or "mistaken" or "wrong". The word may carry a connotation of being wrong, but it's closer to being disingenuous.

As to "spurious" being an insult.....even with your apparent use of the word, accusing someone of being wrong is not insulting, it is merely disagreeing. I am sorry that you felt insulted and I told you that I did not intend to insult you.....On the other hand, you use a word that you find insulting, which means that you intended to insult.

Fortunately, since I do not find the word insulting, I was not insulted. But your intent is a bit of a worry.

BTW, koheesti corrected me on my Dupont mistake, which I admitted. Again, to clarify, a mistake, not something spurious.

Aimed at myself as much as at anyone else.

I lived in America most of my life and I moved to Thailand to see what it is like and I enjoy it. It had nothing to do with disliking the USA. It is interesting that someone who does nothing but snivel and whine and cry about how terrible America is - all over the internet - wants to question anyone else's loyalty.

Since you seem very unaware, both Bill Clinton and President Obama lived overseas for part of their lives, but both are still Americans.

In fact, they are much better Americans than some people who have lived there all of their lives, but never stop complaining about it.

You should move on to something else....this argument is old,tired & untrue. No matter how many times you try to repeat it.

As I have tried in vain to explain as simply as possible to you in the past....You do not comprehend it.

Because a citizen does not agree with abuse of power in many sectors does not mean the citizen is against in this case the constitution/declaration of independence. In fact quite the opposite as we the people try to uphold what is being torn down.

Yet a uninformed/misinformed, detached, X-pat person like you will try in vain to make that claim as you do ad nauseum.....

But what is really funny & brings to mind Koheesti's post about irony is you an X-pat preaching to citizens who live & work here about patriotism.

Now that is ironic....

Get real...Who cares where you previously lived.... You use to weigh 50 pounds at some point in your early life too. What relevance does that have today?

You who have your mouth full of Som Tam will try to tell me who lives & works here in the US how American Pie tastes?

You assume it tastes the same as the last time you may have been here? You base your memory of the taste on what?

What the controlled medias tell you?

You who live elsewhere & contribute nothing to this country in the way of trying to help or uphold things will preach to those that do?That is irony at its finest.

As I said move on as you have no credibility nor first hand real time experience. So you Mr. X-pat should be the last one to call any patriot... unpatriotic. You have not a clue as to what the term really means. But here is a hint.....It is not nodding your head yes .....like a bobble doll to everything your govt does in the name of your country.