Alternative Retirement Destinations For Expats (other Than Thailand)

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

I just saw this article via an email blast I get from time to time. I would love to hear from any Aussies or Kiwis regarding this article. I am a bit skeptical of this web site anyway, as they are the ones touting Panama as the #1 spot several years ago. And after my trip there, was fairly disappointed.

http://www.escapefro...ound-the-world/

And here is another one that caught my eye...interesting, but there recommendations have issues. NADA to do in Saba but scuba dive...and food is crazy expensive. Cuba would drive you nuts if you tried to live there. Estonia? Maybe in the summer...but it snows there! Same with a few of the other picks. And El Chaltén, Argentina, is really small. Was there not too long ago. Great trekking, but nothing else to do...and most who live there have dreadlocks and work as guides....

http://www.escapefro...irement-havens/

Doubtful that the person who wrote about Australia has even been there is a expat. And the price of property in Australia and New Zealand is out of sight in any place you would consider living. You might find a inexpensive place out in the bush but forget things like internet and most other amenities. Don't get me wrong I love Australia. We received a retirement visa in 1994 which required moving $500,000 into the country and had to renew the visa every 2 years which was pretty simple and cost 160AUD. You were required to have health insurance and could not be employed. That went on for 12 years and then they decided that they didn't want retirees there and change the law, no more retirement visa. If you had one you could maintain it but the paperwork was outrageous and they made you feel very unwanted and let us know that could refuse to continue our visa at any time. We sold our property and everything we couldn't get into a container and shifted to Thailand. Been here four years now.

They do have an investment visa that takes place of the retirement visa but requires several million US to invest in Australia. Basically if you are over 50 Australia does not want you. Which is unfortunate as it is a truly great place to live, but not on a shoestring. My understanding is New Zealand is much the same.

If we were to leave Thailand, we would most likely go to Uruguay. You can own property same as a local and you can get citizenship and a Uruguay passport after 3 years couple 5 years single. Haven't been there yet but thinking of checking it out.

[elliss]

I would like to see Cuba, but as incredible and ridiculous as it sounds, it's actually a criminal act for Americans to go there. So much for being free, but there would be no banking services available if your money was in a US bank. Many of us are stuck having a US bank because our pensions cannot be automatically deposited into a foreign bank.

problem solved ,, HSBC,, worldwide banking

[craigt3365]

I would like to see Cuba, but as incredible and ridiculous as it sounds, it's actually a criminal act for Americans to go there. So much for being free, but there would be no banking services available if your money was in a US bank. Many of us are stuck having a US bank because our pensions cannot be automatically deposited into a foreign bank.

problem solved ,, HSBC,, worldwide banking

Not criminal to visit, just to spend money. Kinda chicken and egg....but it is a really cool place. For a visit. It would be horrible to live there. Very hard to find the necessities. I've been twice, and carried all cash for my 1 week visit. No American banking for sure!

[phomsanuk]

Mexico, 2 that I know, Chapala/Guadalajara and St Michael

Here is a quote from a forum, thet seem to have problems with the press as Pattaya does,

" I have no idea if the American media is just lazy or if they have an agenda, but I cannot sit idly by and allow all of Mexico to be painted with such a broad brush. Lake Chapala is, indeed, safe."

[ronz28]

Maybe parts of Mexico are safe but how do you get there as it appears it is unsafe to drive or haul some of your possessions there anymore from US. Latest news from Mexico:

Suspected drug hitmen killed the mayor of a small town in northern Mexico on Sunday in a region where two car bombs exploded last week and the bodies of 72 murdered migrant workers were found. More than 28,000 people have died in drug violence since 2006.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE67T06L20100830?

Random kidnappings and violence are a daily occurrence in Mexico so we won't even vacation there anymore. I guess if you really know the area you can fly into a safe airport and have your possessions shipped to you and hopefully they will arrive intact but I wouldn't feel safe anywhere in Mexico knowing the bad guys can show up anywhere, any time.

[alyx]

If all that is true, it had better be real cheap (and I've heard it's not that cheap) ...

Well, life seems to be.... (I should have written lives maybe)

Edited August 30, 2010 by alyx

[Lancelot]

Wine, wine, wine...beef, beef, beef!

I'm sold! I do miss a thick juicy steak...

[craigt3365]

Wine, wine, wine...beef, beef, beef!

I'm sold! I do miss a thick juicy steak...

When I go home, first two things I do are to have a great Mexican lunch and to buy a few steaks for the barbie...along with some great (and inexpensive) wine.

After 6 weeks in Argentina, we were dying for veggies. Pretty much all the restaurants have there is a green salad...it's big, and good...but gets old if that is your only veggie for the day. Picture is of a typical restaurants offering in Buenos Aires...fantastic...bottles of wine are just to the right of the barbie!

[bangkokburning]

Jim Rogers now lives in Singapore. He was pretty up on OZ till he visited. He wrote a scathing article on the country that focused on ownership rights but then swept into hassles to stay, visas and even racism. Was not a pretty picture from one of the worlds smartest people.

I've tried twice to find the article without luck.

Still just POMEs I guess

My friend was looking at Nicaragua.

I think the best way to look at retirement is to have a lace to go in summer and winter. You get the best of both seasons and very possibly can live on tourist visas.

Edited September 2, 2010 by bangkokburning

[Naam]

Jim Rogers now lives in Singapore. He was pretty up on OZ till he visited. He wrote a scathing article on the country that focused on ownership rights but then swept into hassles to stay, visas and even racism. Was not a pretty picture from one of the worlds smartest people.

if Jim Rogers ever considered Oz as residence he must have been out of his freaking mind. in Singapore he doesn't pay a penny of income tax, the Aussies would fleece him for millions.

[phuketrichard]

I have lived in Phnom Penh and spent quite a lot of time in Snooky, Siem Rep and Kampot.

The thing with Cambodia is it is not set up for the long term visitor. I mean all u can find outsdie of Phnom Penh is guesthouses and such, No apt building complese or small homes like u see in Pattaya and Phuket. I prefer the Cambodinas to thais and have always had a good time.

Easy visas for 1 year, Cheap spirits/Beer/Cigs.

$10 short times and $20 all nighters.

If you like living on the edge is is great, If u need the creature comforts thta you have grown used to stay in Thailand

Am now in Phuket and have been for to long.

Basically what i want to do once my daughter is off to College is store my stuff in Bangkok at a friends and spend lots of time on the road,

Back to India, up to Nepal and over to Tibet and make my way acroos to Kalish then come back down thru Pakistan and then over to Leh in Ladhak before returning to Thailand then over to Cambodia and head up into Laos and over to Yunnan in China. Been to all these places but so loong ago its time to return.

Why stay in one place just cause ur older?

Edited September 2, 2010 by phuketrichard

[PattayaParent]

The latest list of places just out.

http://finance.yahoo.com/focus-retirement/article/111327/top-retirement-havens-in-the-world-2011?mod=fidelity-livingretirement

I think some of them have been mentioned here already.

[Jingthing]

The latest list of places just out.

http://finance.yahoo.com/focus-retirement/article/111327/top-retirement-havens-in-the-world-2011?mod=fidelity-livingretirement

I think some of them have been mentioned here already.

Interesting list. They don't mention visas much. I don't know of any retirement visa options for Columbia, do you? So many of those fantasy articles fail to mention visas, which is absurd, because why retire abroad to a country if you can't feasibly live there legally? The mention of a new program in Nicaragua is interesting, it would be interesting to know the details.

Warning on Argentina -- they will probably raise their financial requirements for retirement visas SUBSTANTIALLY very soon as they have for outside income based visas. I mean seriously substantially, like multiples of 100 percent of the current rules.

Edited November 23, 2010 by Jingthing

[Lancelot]

A buddy of mine enjoyed his time in Columbia but said the maximum time he could stay was six months. I do not know what visa he had but he is early 40s so I doubt it was retirement related.

He does however keep returning to Thailand...

[Jingthing]

A buddy of mine enjoyed his time in Columbia but said the maximum time he could stay was six months. I do not know what visa he had but he is early 40s so I doubt it was retirement related.

He does however keep returning to Thailand...

That's similar to my understanding about Columbia. Why do these retire abroad sites and articles do that? Retire here (fine print, non-existent print actually), well it would be nice if you COULD.

Edited November 23, 2010 by Jingthing

[Lancelot]

Jim Rogers now lives in Singapore. He was pretty up on OZ till he visited. He wrote a scathing article on the country that focused on ownership rights but then swept into hassles to stay, visas and even racism. Was not a pretty picture from one of the worlds smartest people.

Not the article you were refering to but related to Oz and Mr Rogers

As for Australia, he says: ''The only disappointment I've had is that your politicians are as bad as the ones in America.

http://www.smh.com.au/business/reserve-earns-praise-but-not-our-politicians-20100518-vc69.html

Hmmm, perhaps I found it after all

http://www.jimrogers.com/content/stories/articles/australia.html

Edited November 23, 2010 by Lancelot

[Ducklover]

may I add

Lombok Island - Indonesia

It's just like Bali, 10 years ago

[oldsailor35]

Jim Rogers now lives in Singapore. He was pretty up on OZ till he visited. He wrote a scathing article on the country that focused on ownership rights but then swept into hassles to stay, visas and even racism. Was not a pretty picture from one of the worlds smartest people.

Not the article you were refering to but related to Oz and Mr Rogers

As for Australia, he says: ''The only disappointment I've had is that your politicians are as bad as the ones in America.

http://www.smh.com.a...00518-vc69.html

Hmmm, perhaps I found it after all

http://www.jimrogers.../australia.html

We all know about the Baht, but i still get my haircut on Samui for 80 bht, just back in Queensland and a pensioner discounted haircut has just cost me 500bht. So its still hell of a lot cheaper to live in LOS.

[oldsailor35]

Eastbourne

Thanks for all the stupid, spam replies.........now, if any person with a brain would like to answer the questions, please do. Thanks.

There are plenty of us happily living in Thailand thank you

[oldsailor35]

Eastbourne

Thanks for all the stupid, spam replies.........now, if any person with a brain would like to answer the questions, please do. Thanks.

Don't be so <deleted> touchy, you asked for alternative destinations and you got them, Eastbourne is a very popular retirement destination.

If you don't want an answer, then don't ask the question. Can I respectfully suggest that you calm down.

OK..........I am calm. I am simply sick and tired of the spam that comes out each time some politically incorrect topic is put online.......here, politically incorrect means anything that assumes Thailand is not great.

Carib..........thanks for the answer..........can you focus on some cities?

Actually, the topic title should be amended but to do so would make it too long. That is why I listed the countries and places that I am hoping people will focus on in the first post.

Yes, there are expat retirement possibilities worldwide. But the ones on the list seem viable for most expats currently living in Thailand.

Some, as you can see, are in Southeast Asia. A few are not.

Personally I am particularly interested in the cities that I listed for Vietnam, Philippines, and Cambodia.

Can we all calm down and start over. Again, this is not about all expat alternatives. It is about the few alternatives listed in the first post.

If you want to talk about all alternatives, please start another post.

Thank you for your positive input.

If you've got a good boat, try Australia, seems to be the place these days !

[Rumpole]

There are plenty of us happily living in Thailand thank you

In which case, there are plenty of other threads on this board in which you can indulge your unabashed appreciation. This thread is for the not inconsiderable number of people who are NOT particularly happy living in Thailand, and/or are seeking alternatives.

Edited January 10, 2011 by Rumpole

[cat5]

Sihanoukville is an absolute dump. Ask anyone who has been there. I can't believe that anyone would want to retire there unless they were down to their last few satang and had no other options left. I guess it has cheap flange.

[gk10002000]

I do live in Florida, but do contract engineering work all over the USA. I would add Florida as a decent retirement place. However, this might be best for USA citizens only, mainly because there is no USA Retirement Visa. This one fact makes me accept the nuances of a Thai or some other country's retirement visa. At least they have one!

PROS:

No State Income Tax. People in other countries probably don't quite understand how the USA has a Federal and a State tax (never mind local)

Propery Values are really really low right now. One could get in at a decent price.

Good medical is arguably available. So many plans and options out there.

Shopping and discount food stuff is pretty good.

With a bit of luck, one can tend to a small garden and get some exercise and save some food money at the some time.

CONS:

There really is no USA Retirement Visa.

Mass or Public transportation is not as available in some foreign small cities such as Pattaya. One can't hop on a "baht" bus and go a few miles in Winter Springs Fl! A car is pretty much needed.

[morrobay]

Whats up with Tejas and 20 duplicate posts (and i got tired of counting) in this same thread. This is a good topic but there has to be a more efficient way to update

w/o repeating the entire post each time.

Edited January 12, 2011 by morrobay

[sabaijai]

Whats up with Tejas and 20 duplicate posts (and i got tired of counting) in this same thread. This is a good topic but there has to be a more efficient way to update

w/o repeating the entire post each time.

Tejas was banned from the forum long ago so you won't be seeing any more of his posts.

[tsigane]

With the exception of some useless and even meaningless posts, this thread contains rather useful info on the topic. I wish people would at least visit a place before posting their preconceived notions as facts. For some, quantity is more important than quality (how do people rack up tens of thousands of posts anyways?).

Visiting a country and living in it is quite different. With this caveat, I'd like to add a few remarks.

1. Ecuador was labeled by one single individual as "dangerous" and that label stuck with the country. While Quito, like any big city, has its share of crime problems, there are many more, very safe, places in this country. If has three very distinct climates - coastal, mountainous and jungle. All three within a few hours ride from pretty much anywhere in the country. I met some people who retired in Cuenca (this city was already mentioned earlier), who are very, very happy living there without any problems. This city has particularly pleasant climate - yearly temperature variation is only a couple of degrees. It is consistently rated one of the best retirement options by various surveys I've seen (Chiang Mai is another city always rated highly). While prostitutes do not scream at gringos (that's how they call farangs there) on the street, I'm sure fans of Thai bar girls can find them there too. I do not know details about the long term visas, but the fact that there are so many foreigners living and possibly working there, I assume it is not a big deal.

2. Colombia, as someone already mentioned, is one of the fastest growing economies of South America. One can feel the energy everywhere. It may be a bit more expensive than some other countries of the region. Due to higher elevations, many places have very pleasant climate throughout the year. One person who I know is looking for buy a farm there. They start at about 50k USD, while 150k buys a really good one. With purchase of such a farm, one gets residency automatically (this is what I was told by that individual, I did not do any research myself). For those who fancy it, plenty of gorgeous girls can be had for some kind of monetary compensation.

3. Most of the posts about Argentina already described it pretty accurately. I have an old friend who has been living there for about 4-5 years now doing visa runs to Uruguay. Someone posted about change in official policy towards visa runs, but I don't think anything changed there. Even if they do crack down on it, college education in Argentina is FREE, even for foreigners. Many people attend universities there just to maintain their student status and therefore, be allowed to live there legally. In addition to free education, health care is also free, for everybody, including foreigners. Apparently Argentinians do not feel any animosity towards people who want to live in their country. People who are in love with sex trade in Thailand may love to know that prostitutes in BA are about 600 B

4. Bolivia hasn't been mentioned at all. There are quite a few emigrants (mostly Europeans) living there. Yes, it's the poorest country of SA, but it also means cheapest one to live in. I visited people who bought an amazing house on pretty big piece of land, overlooking 6000+ m glaciated peaks for about 18k USD. I am not sure about long term visa options for Bolivia, but it is obviously not a problem since there are so many escapees from the first world countries living and/or working there.

Spanish is a must for living in any of these countries. I was able to get by with only two weeks of instructions, without any prior knowledge of the language. So I don't really see it as an issue.

Finally, one thing that I find absolutely fascinating about the Latin world is friendliness and warmth of the people. People there smile a LOT, at least as much as people in SE Asia, mostly without any expectations of monetary gains. Every time someone refers to Thailand as LOS, makes me chuckle. Those people who think I'm full of it should spend some time in Brazil and experience what genuine smiles and friendliness are.

Just my two cents...

[ExpatJ]

Sihanoukville is an absolute dump. Ask anyone who has been there. I can't believe that anyone would want to retire there unless they were down to their last few satang and had no other options left. I guess it has cheap flange.

Agree! Infact the whole of cambodia is pretty low quality life for a retiree compared to Thailand- and the corruption in Cambodia makes Thailand look like Switerzerland.

[Jingthing]

Some response to the South American post --

1. Residency in Columbia

Visa de Inversionista (investing in Colombia with a minimum of $100,000 dollars). No retirement pension options.

2. Residency in Ecuador

Investment of 25,000 in bank (you can't touch it) or real estate which you can fully own. Also low level pension option. For the real estate you have to be careful because not all real estate purchases can offer the needed ownership documents, plus the 25K must be the official tax assessed amount and most people lie about that there, so you might need to spend 50K for a document that says 25K. The process is slow, and people generally need to use lawyers to make it happen (and that isn't that cheap), plus lots of onerous required paperwork such as apostled documents from your home country. For the first two years, you need to stay 10 months per year in country (or something like that) or you lose your residency. A second passport is quite doable as well, if you want that.

3. Argentina

Living on visa runs, you can never get a DNI number (their national ID system), meaning massive difficulties with banking and utility company accounts. As far at the free university and free health care for drop in foreigners, I really don't believe that after reading baexpats for a while, never heard mention of that. Sometimes people hear anecdotal stories and blow them up into something that isn't real. I would be happy to be PROVEN wrong about that.

There WAS a recent visa change massively increasing the financial requirements for non-pension based expats showing other income to qualify. As far as I know the pension based option is still quite low.

Also, it is true Argentina isn't into criminalizing overstayers. You can pay a small fine at the airport even for a long overstay. Most long term expats are motivated to get legal to get the DNI number, without which, they don't really officially exist as legit residents.

Edited January 19, 2011 by Jingthing

[Rumpole]

Sihanoukville is an absolute dump. Ask anyone who has been there. I can't believe that anyone would want to retire there unless they were down to their last few satang and had no other options left. I guess it has cheap flange.

Agree! Infact the whole of cambodia is pretty low quality life for a retiree compared to Thailand- and the corruption in Cambodia makes Thailand look like Switerzerland.

Your mileage may vary, as the Americans say. Most of the expats here in Cambodia, including retirees, think their quality of life is just fine, and would rather stick pins in their eyes than live in Thailand.

Edited January 19, 2011 by Rumpole

[tsigane]

1. Residency in Columbia

Visa de Inversionista (investing in Colombia with a minimum of $100,000 dollars). No retirement pension options.

I do not know the numbers. Thanks for the info. I brought into Thailand quite a bit more and got nothing out of it. Additionally, in order to be considered an investor in Colombia, you can just buy a house/land with that money. You do NOT need a local partner to own >50% of the joint company.

2. Residency in Ecuador

Investment of 25,000 in bank (you can't touch it) or real estate which you can fully own. Also low level pension option. For the real estate you have to be careful because not all real estate purchases can offer the needed ownership documents, plus the 25K must be the official tax assessed amount and most people lie about that there, so you might need to spend 50K for a document that says 25K. The process is slow, and people generally need to use lawyers to make it happen (and that isn't that cheap), plus lots of onerous required paperwork such as apostled documents from your home country. For the first two years, you need to stay 10 months per year in country (or something like that) or you lose your residency. A second passport is quite doable as well, if you want that.

Again, thanks for the additional info on numbers and other requirements. They all seem reasonable compared to most countries giving away permanent residencies.

3. Argentina

Living on visa runs, you can never get a DNI number (their national ID system), meaning massive difficulties with banking and utility company accounts. As far at the free university and free health care for drop in foreigners, I really don't believe that after reading baexpats for a while, never heard mention of that. Sometimes people hear anecdotal stories and blow them up into something that isn't real. I would be happy to be PROVEN wrong about that.

There WAS a recent visa change massively increasing the financial requirements for non-pension based expats showing other income to qualify. As far as I know the pension based option is still quite low.

Also, it is true Argentina isn't into criminalizing overstayers. You can pay a small fine at the airport even for a long overstay. Most long term expats are motivated to get legal to get the DNI number, without which, they don't really officially exist as legit residents.

I allow for the possibility that it was just an urban legend as I did not speak to a person who actually attended a free university there. But for those interested, it may be worth looking into.

Free health care is not that unfathomable. I received free vaccination in Bolivia (something I could not find anywhere in the US, for example). I know for sure that there are free medical services in France and its possessions (I personally received it while in Tahiti). There are probably many other countries with such services for all (including visitors).

Again, just to put out some info that some people might find useful and explore further.

cheers