Alternative Retirement Destinations For Expats (other Than Thailand)

[phuketrichard]

You cant buy land in Cambodia, ( same as Thailand) but u can get a 90 year lease instead of 30 and in fact they have not passed the law yet that u can even own a condo which u can in Thailand

[SGD]

I guess that the top two issues are wealth / income and whether you have a partner, presumably Thai given this board is Thai centric. A Thai may happily live in Thailand or in your home country but may not be too happy pitching up her tent in Manilla or Saigon.

As a single guy you are less constrained than if you have Thai baggage.

[CaptHaddock]

Ecuador is of interest, though that text is clearly rather over the top marketing puff.

Also the dollarization there is attractive to Americans, no exchange rate worries.

I have begun to plan trips there a few times, but every time I do, reading about the horrible crime situation in Quito has put me off. I have read several sources that you can't even walk around there safely during the day, that you should take taxis everywhere. That doesn't sound fun. Also weird rules about having to carry a passport to night clubs, which would be insane to do considering the crime. I think the situation is indeed better outside Quito, but Quito is the metropolis there and many people like big cities.

We were vacationing in Ecuador in January, in Quito, Otavalo, and, mostly, on a boat in the Galapagos. Very attractive country, but crime appears to be pervasive, at least in those areas. Even in the countryside in Galapagos, which has a tiny population, the windows on houses were barred. In Quito, we occasionally got very hostile looks from mugger types on the street, but we were with a guide so we didn't worry. We saw houses in an upscale part of town that had all of: walls, barbed wire, an electrified fence. Every bank had an armed guard standing on the threshold. Guards or police with automatic weapons could be seen here and there on sidewalks. You're cautioned only to take a taxi called by the hotel lest you be kidnapped and held for ransom by the cab you hail on the street. Couldn't imagine living there on those terms.

Also, while dollarization is a boon for a US expat retiree, it won't last forever. The president, Correa, intends to return to the sucre eventually. Correa, by the way, is an impressive leader: holds a PhD in economics, speaks Quechua, is both a socialist and a reformer who has acted against the interests of his constituency. Even his enemies recognize that he is completely clean.

We did not visit Cuenca, but we understand it is much more livable than Quito. Said to be beautiful also.

[Mahseer]

Himachal Predesh is mentioned in the listing but can foreigners actually retire there? I have just picked up a 5 year tourist visa which essentially allows 10 months/year (180 days/2 months out) but would be interested to hear from anyone who is legally retired there.

I am off to Himachal Peadesh and Uttarakhand for 3 months so will see if I can answer my own question.

[craigt3365]

Himachal Predesh is mentioned in the listing but can foreigners actually retire there? I have just picked up a 5 year tourist visa which essentially allows 10 months/year (180 days/2 months out) but would be interested to hear from anyone who is legally retired there.

I am off to Himachal Peadesh and Uttarakhand for 3 months so will see if I can answer my own question.

Please reply back with your experiences. I don't think I could live there. The poverty is so in your face...along with the pollution (trash, cows, camels, bad water, etc). But it is a great place to visit as a tourist.

[Naam]

The president, Correa, intends to return to the sucre eventually. Correa, by the way, is an impressive leader: holds a PhD in economics, speaks Quechua, is both a socialist and a reformer who has acted against the interests of his constituency. Even his enemies recognize that he is completely clean.

yeah right! under Correa and by his orders Ecuador defaulted a third time within two decades on its international debt.

completely clean... my àss!

[Naam]

Himachal Predesh is mentioned in the listing but can foreigners actually retire there? I have just picked up a 5 year tourist visa which essentially allows 10 months/year (180 days/2 months out) but would be interested to hear from anyone who is legally retired there.

I am off to Himachal Peadesh and Uttarakhand for 3 months so will see if I can answer my own question.

Please reply back with your experiences. I don't think I could live there. The poverty is so in your face...along with the pollution (trash, cows, camels, bad water, etc). But it is a great place to visit as a tourist.

there might be bad water but... they sell Kingfisher beer in Himachal Pradesh

[CaptHaddock]

The president, Correa, intends to return to the sucre eventually. Correa, by the way, is an impressive leader: holds a PhD in economics, speaks Quechua, is both a socialist and a reformer who has acted against the interests of his constituency. Even his enemies recognize that he is completely clean.

yeah right! under Correa and by his orders Ecuador defaulted a third time within two decades on its international debt.

completely clean... my àss!

Default was a smart move for Ecuador. It lowered the value of their outstanding debt which Correa then bought up at 35 cents on the dollar. Some of the debt had been incurred by illegitimate military regimes which is the basis on which he justified repudiation. Default also worked out well for Argentina which was then able to negotiate better terms. Admittedly ruthless, but there is no reason that only the developed economies should be able to profit from aggressive financial management.

Ireland should default on its bank guarantees, although these were never government bond obligations.

[Jingthing]

Retirement in India is NOT a realistic option, visa-wise, for foreigners. Sure you could stay there for years playing the six month tourist visa game, but long term retirement, nope.

http://www.retire2india.com/2007/09/retirement-visa-to-india-for-non.html

Next ...

[Awohalitsiktoli]

Retirement in India is NOT a realistic option, visa-wise, for foreigners. Sure you could stay there for years playing the six month tourist visa game, but long term retirement, nope.

http://www.retire2in...ia-for-non.html

Next ...

Columbia?

[Jingthing]

Columbia?

I think the info is already here on this thread.

Long term residency based on non-pension income available. Level quite high (over 30K annually if I recall correctly). There may be an investment option but if so, high level.

Based on pension, kind of a potential loophole, no set number specified so could be at the discretion of the consulate/embassy.

Ecuador at least currently has different options at much lower levels.

[zzaa09]

Retirement in India is NOT a realistic option, visa-wise, for foreigners. Sure you could stay there for years playing the six month tourist visa game, but long term retirement, nope.

http://www.retire2in...ia-for-non.html

Next ...

I hear that for those whom carry a Commonwealth {whatever that is} passport, Sri Lanka has reinstated it's old rules to long-termers.

[ding]

Retirement in India is NOT a realistic option, visa-wise, for foreigners. Sure you could stay there for years playing the six month tourist visa game, but long term retirement, nope.

http://www.retire2in...ia-for-non.html

Next ...

I hear that for those whom carry a Commonwealth {whatever that is} passport, Sri Lanka has reinstated it's old rules to long-termers.

54 Commonwealth nations;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_members_of_the_Commonwealth_of_Nations

USA is not one, even though we were a Brit colony.

[zzaa09]

Retirement in India is NOT a realistic option, visa-wise, for foreigners. Sure you could stay there for years playing the six month tourist visa game, but long term retirement, nope.

http://www.retire2in...ia-for-non.html

Next ...

I hear that for those whom carry a Commonwealth {whatever that is} passport, Sri Lanka has reinstated it's old rules to long-termers.

54 Commonwealth nations;

http://en.wikipedia....alth_of_Nations

USA is not one, even though we were a Brit colony.

Yes. Common "Wealth". Wasn't so common, was it? Even during more romantic days of yore.:jap:

[craigt3365]

Interesting article:

http://finance.yahoo.com/retirement/article/112534/places-retire-under-500-month-usnews?mod=retire-planning

[lovelaos]

Laos is like Thailand was 20 years ago if you want a quiet retirement :jap:

[Jingthing]

Laos is like Thailand was 20 years ago if you want a quiet retirement :jap:

Retire there on what visa?

[anotheruser]

Laos is like Thailand was 20 years ago if you want a quiet retirement :jap:

Retire there on what visa?

You can get a stay visa or a business visa very easily. Laos is still an easy place to stay for a long time.

[nottocus]

Laos for me. Married to a Laotian lady and just got some land....in her name of course.

[JimmyJ]

This is the best thread I've ever found re; expatriation. Reading the entire thread gives a great feel for the pros and cons of expatriation in general, and the pros and cons of many lower budget expat locations.

Thanks to all who've contributed.

I'm a USA citizen living in the USA. I've considered moving elsewhere for a long time.

There are a few situations that are crucial for me, and one of them has never been mentioned in this thread - Smoking/No Smoking.

I've read thru many travel books and am equally surprised that NOT ONE OF THEM mentions the Smoking situation in countries.

This includes Let's Go, Lonely Planet, Rough Guide, etc.

I do not smoke, and cannot stand tobacco smoke.

In most of the USA, smoking is banned from inside businesses and office buildings, airplanes, buses, etc.

I would immediately eliminate from consideration any country which has NO anti-smoking restrictions.

It is astounding to me that this is apparently of no consideration to anyone who has thus far contributed to this thread.

At any rate, I would appreciate contributions giving info on this situation in any/all of the countries mentioned in this thread including Thailand.

In my case there are 2 other factors of great importance to me and which eliminates many places from consideration:

1) I'm a vegetarian and about 95% vegan.

2) Even more important, since I imagine I could prepare acceptable food at home in most locales, and thus could probably cope with dietary problems:

I support myself via the Internet, and specifically Internet Gambling.

So I would need a country which first of all does not restrict access to Gambling sites (such as Thailand), and secondly I would need to live in an area with reasonably high speed internet.

Have I just eliminated every place mentioned in this thread?

Any suggestions/info relating to the factors above would be appreciated.

[craigt3365]

In my case there are 2 other factors of great importance to me and which eliminates many places from consideration:

1) I'm a vegetarian and about 95% vegan.

2) Even more important, since I imagine I could prepare acceptable food at home in most locales, and thus could probably cope with dietary problems:

I support myself via the Internet, and specifically Internet Gambling.

So I would need a country which first of all does not restrict access to Gambling sites (such as Thailand), and secondly I would need to live in an area with reasonably high speed internet.

Have I just eliminated every place mentioned in this thread?

Any suggestions/info relating to the factors above would be appreciated.

Welcome! Glad you've found this thread interesting. I know I have!

Re:smoking....you are in trouble for sure. I'm guessing the US has one of the most aggressive anti-smoking laws in the world (at least ones that are enforced!). But here in Thailand, other than bars/clubs, I've never noticed much smoking...at least none that bothered me. And I am sensitive also. There are laws here that prohibit smoking in certain areas, but they are not really enforced. So every once in a while you will encounter somebody who smokes at a restaurant...but I've rarely noticed it. For sure the same is true in South/Central America and pretty much the rest of Asia. Others can correct me if they think I am wrong!

Re:vegan, Thailand is a great place for you. Argentina is not! I think Asia has better options vs CA/SA. We are not vegans, but do prefer veggies. We love the fruit available in Thailand. It's amazing.

Can't comment about high speed internet in other countries, but where we live, south of Pattaya, it's fine. Up and down, but we have 98%+ uptime for sure...and at quite good speeds. But it won't be like what you can get back in the US.

[yasmina]

I didn't read the first 14 pages so excuse me if someone else mentioned these before:

- When I visited Sri Lanka a few years ago foreigners could buy and own land (albeit taxed 100%). English is widely spoken, the food not bad (not as good as India or Thailand but much better than Philippines or Cambodia) and it was cheap (certainly not more expensive than many parts of Thailand). I don't know about current visa options but there were very few negatives. The east and west coasts have opposite rainy seasons so that is another plus. Maybe not the best option if one is looking for a wife/partner perhaps.

- Have yet to visit but parts of the South Pacific, especially Fiji, would often similar benefits imagine. Might be a bit more expensive though.

- The extreme northern tip of New Zealand offers a very good lifestyle and it seems relatively easy to get permanent residence (not a retirement visa) if one is under 55. Western comforts come at Western costs however, but NZ seemed cheaper than most Western countries.

[JimmyJ]

Thanks for the welcome, craigt3365.

"Re:vegan, Thailand is a great place for you. Argentina is not! I think Asia has better options vs CA/SA. We are not vegans, but do prefer veggies. We love the fruit available in Thailand. It's amazing."

I think Thai is the world's best cuisine. I've enjoyed it for decades in the USA. Currently, Las Vegas, NV, is fortunate to have a Thai restaurant which Gourmet Magazine called the best Thai restaurant in the USA (Lotus of Siam). The cuisine of Thailand is perfect for me, agreed.

A few more questions:

1) Does anyone live in a country with internet censorship?

It's my understanding that internet gambling is illegal in Thailand, and that they block or try to block access to gambling sites.

??

Someone tonight posted in a gambling forum that France is now blocking access to gambling sites.

Anyone experiencing or hearing of such censorship in their country?

2) I hate hot and humid, or I would've looked at Thailand long ago.

Is the temperature pleasant - not hot and humid - in the mountain areas such as Chang Mai?

Or is it just less hot and humid?

3) Would appreciate feedback from anyone re: the Smoking/No Smoking situation in their country.

And what people witnessed in the countries mentioned in this thread that they've traveled to relating to this issue.

Such as, does everyone smoke everywhere - on buses, trains, in restaurants, movie theaters, planes, etc.?

Does the country have any protection for Non-Smokers?

[Jingthing]

Fiji info, not too bad, but requires a set deposit (or real estate) plus annual income IMPORTED. The deposit/real estate part higher than Thailand (and Thailand has an either/or) but the income requirement less, but for Fiji MUST be imported annually. Overall, more stringent than Thailand.

http://www.fijiembassydc.com/default.asp?contentID=531

1 FJD = 0.564100 USD

New Zealand has retirement options. Like Australia, for the more wealthy only.

http://www.migrationbureau.com/news.php?newsid=168

Age over 65 only.

Sri Lanka. This is news to me if true.

http://www.srilankapropertymarket.com/General_Information_page4.html

Income needed of 1500 USD per month not very high and lower than Thailand, but many retirees don't have a pension quite that large (and often rely on other assets to live). Health insurance required. Security deposit needed -- 15K USD, not bad.

[yasmina]

Sri Lanka. This is news to me if true.

http://www.srilankap...tion_page4.html

Income needed of 1500 USD per month not very high and lower than Thailand, but many retirees don't have a pension quite that large (and often rely on other assets to live). Health insurance required. Security deposit needed -- 15K USD, not bad.

Yes, it's a lovely place too. However, that info is from 2008 and can't find many other sources. Real estate (on that website) doesn't look great value either. Personally though I would rather rent a house in Asia or most developing countries.

[Rumpole]

I hear that for those whom carry a Commonwealth {whatever that is} passport, Sri Lanka has reinstated it's old rules to long-termers.

Interesting. Do you have a link for that?

I much prefer Sri Lanka to India (which I would never consider as a retirement or long-term destination), but when I made enquiries about 18 months ago, obtaining a long-term visa for Sri Lanka seemed to be very problematic. If the situation has indeed changed again, Brits and other Commonwealth nationals might like to consider Sri Lanka as a possible retirement destination - though probably not if sh*gging cheap hos is high on your list of lifestyle priorities.

As the country has only been mentioned in passing on this thread, I will try to provide a list of some of the good and bad points as I see them. Caveat: I have never lived in Sri Lanka,only visited, and your mileage may of course vary:

Pros

1. Really nice people. Well-educated and generally curious about the world around them. Quite a few of them have worked or studied overseas. People will willingly strike-up conversations with you.

2. English speaking.

3. Tolerant (generally). The population are predominantly Buddhist, with Hindu, Christian and Muslim minorities.

4. Good health-care facilities. Locals get free care at government hospitals and clinics, but private hospitals are also springing up in the major population centres and their fees are very reasonable, as is private treatment at the main government hospitals. Pharmacies are well-stocked and incredibly cheap (medicines subsidized by the government).

5. A superb local cuisine at very decent prices.

6. Absent most of the filth and squalor so prevalent in much of the rest of the Sub-Continent. The locals will proudly tell you that Sri Lanka is 'a clean country'.

7. Few of the beggars and constant hassles one encounters in India. A previous government rounded up all the beggars and many of the touts and they er .. um .. disappeared.

8. Low crime rates (at least those targeting foreigners).

9. Great beaches and stunning scenery. Lots of history and culture.

10. Decent and very cheap rail system, if a little slow.

11. Surprisingly good internet connections, though not sure of prices.

Cons

1. Very bureaucratic. Dealing with government agencies can be a pain.

2. Primitive banking system (government controlled - see above) with lots of red-tape and run-around. ATMs sometimes don't work, though to be fair, things seemed to be improving a bit on my last visit.

3. Infrastructure can be poor. Dreadful roads outside the main cities and occasional power outages.

4. Supermarkets and shopping OK (lots of wealthier Indians do their shopping in Colombo) but certainly not on a par with South East Asia in terms of choice, variety or price.

5. Decent quality, non-local, restaurant food is now much more widely available in places which see tourists, but it tends to be pricey and the selection is limited.

6. Booze is expensive (unless you drink the local hooch - which still isn't all that cheap). Like Thailand, they also have the 'Poya ' full moon days when the sale of alcohol is prohibited.

7. Nightlife outside Colombo almost non-existent.

8. Limited air links with the rest of the world.

9. The civil war could start up again, however Westerners and foreign tourists were never targeted.

EDIT: I wrote the above before I read Jing Ting's and Yasmina's posts. So it seems things may not have changed. I can easily meet the income requirements, but not yet as a verifiable pension.

[Rumpole]

Details of the Sri Lanka "My Dream Home" retirement programme for those over 55 (basically as described by Jing Ting above):

http://www.immigration.gov.lk/web/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=156&Itemid=199〈=en

This article has a useful list of prices for various items and services:

http://ezinearticles.com/?Expat-Life-in-Sri-Lanka,-Colombo&id=3988097

(Note: The author states that there are only small local grocery stores which, at least in Colombo, Negombo and Kandy, is not the case. Some of his prices for groceries are therefore probably a bit on the high side, compared to the larger, 'Western-style' supermarkets. I also think his figures for rented accommodation are way off the mark, unless you are looking at some expat enclave in Colombo.)

[anotheruser]

But who in their right mind would want to live in Sri Lanka?

[Rumpole]

^ There are those who ask the same question about Thailand.

[anotheruser]

^ There are those who ask the same question about Thailand.

Point taken.