Hello all,

Okay, so I am following the unrest in Thailand, with the Red Shirts. I know what they want, that is very clear. What I don't understand is why? What do they think they will get if Parliament is dissolved and elections are held? Are they trying to reverse a bill or something? What do they think they will get if re-elections are held? It all seems like a poorly planned movement that has a good cause for free elections and all wrapped up in a fervor for the wrong guy.

Let me say this real quick. I know how some Thai politics threads here can be viewed by the mods. I am not here for a debate, or any right and wrong arguments. I am applying to study modern Thailand, so I have deep interest in what is going on there and I need something besides news sound bits that are not taking the developments there seriously. So, please help me out and give me some insight to better understand this movement. It mirrors other movements that I am researching right now back in the 50s and 60s.

Thanks to all for reading.

Cheers,

Thaibebop

From their point of view, Thaksin is the only politician who has ever helped them in the least. He was illegally removed from office and most of of his supporters are barred from politics, so they can't vote for who they want. Is it any wonder that they are not pleased?

From their point of view, Thaksin is the only politician who has ever helped them in the least. He was illegally removed from office and most of of his supporters are barred from politics, so they can't vote for who they want. Is it any wonder that they are not pleased?

This I understand, but do they think that re-elections will really bring back Thaksin. That seems like daydreaming to me. I can understand if they want to elect people that would push forward Thaksin like bills or reforms, what not, but what would those things be? I have not heard from them or any news source how they were so benefitted by Thaksins administration, or what sort of changes that they want to government to make. If Abhisit were to make these changes that they want, would they be happy? I wonder if they even know what their movement is really trying to accomplish.

I think that they actually believe that they can have Thaksin back.

When the PPP were last in power they seemed to focus most if not all of their efforts on letting Thaksin off the hook and changing the constitution. I suspect that they think that there is a chance of this happening, even if by proxy.

Whatever their reasoning is, they are certainly not an organised bunch and so it is unclear what they hope to achieve.

As with many political party/religious group followers, they have been told something by the leader/s that they want to believe.

It is the leaders that have a plan/agenda. The plebians are just followers because they have been promised something that sounds good.

Okay, what did they get under Thaksin that made them so loyal? Tax cuts? Civil Rights? Was something taken away by the Abhisit administration that they had under Thaksin? Sorry, I ask so many questions but even America's disorganized Tea Party has a more clear platform then PAD. It seems a lot of effort on their part, the blood and all, for something not even defined.

Up here in Chiang Mai, it was the usual stuff.

Development, roads, irrigation, mobile phones for the previously disconnected families ...etc.

Difficult for me to say what part of the 'Asian Tiger' period was directly attributable to him.. i just dont have a clue. My guess is rather a lot. Sure he embezzled cash whenever and wherever...

My Thai pal has a rubber plantation, he likes Thaksin because he managed to jack the price of rubber up on the world market, I presume by forming a cartel, Im not sure if he did the same with other commodities, Soy, Rice, Cassava. They all got rich together, and of course the master trader took a cut. After mr T left rubber and the other prices fell - they are still low apparently.

This is as far as I go in my analysis, as the wife comes from the neighbouring village to mr T, so obviously she and a good proportion of CM like the idea of a local boy made good.

A lot of old expats like him also, not sure why, maybe because he cleaned up the heroin trade so well (ruthlessly) or maybe it was just because he truly did help the export trade here.

Maybe it was easier dealing with just one big crook, than dealing with a whole cabinet of crooks (which is what military run countries generally turn into)

This I understand, but do they think that re-elections will really bring back Thaksin. That seems like daydreaming to me.

Why? They have the numbers and have won plenty of elections - even for his proxies. If he was allowed to run, there is very little doubt that he would win. That is most likely why there has been no deal to allow him back in the country.

This I understand, but do they think that re-elections will really bring back Thaksin. That seems like daydreaming to me.

Why? They have the numbers and have won plenty of elections - even for his proxies. If he was allowed to run, there is very little doubt that he would win. That is most likely why there has been no deal to allow him back in the country.

".....A lot of old expats like him also, not sure why,...."

Up here in Chiang Mai, it was the usual stuff.

Development, roads, irrigation, mobile phones for the previously disconnected families ...etc.

..........

Trinkets for the plebians.....and a double whammy; he gets more customers for his company!!

Once a person has money, he gets followers.

It's the same as showering a naive girl with gifts...she will put out even if she doesn't actually like the man.

Okay, so this might explain why they are so disorganized on their platform at least. Each person might have an individual reason for supporting Thaksin. Now, to UG's point, you really think that he could still win an election so easily? What about the Yellow shirts? They closed down an airport to have the chance to elect Ahisit. Don't you think they would rally support against him. Speaking of the Yellow Shirts, where are they during all of this? Why don't they mount a counter protest to support the government? It's the government they wanted after all, right?

Interesting discussion and no bickering for a change. And, there are some issues that MIGHT be of some importance in explaining the political mess that Thailand is in, but we are not allowed to discuss in this country.

There are subjects that a lot of us can learn from if we take the time to actually LISTEN for a change.

Interesting discussion and no bickering for a change. And, there are some issues that MIGHT be of some importance in explaining the political mess that Thailand is in, but we are not allowed to discuss in this country.

There are subjects that a lot of us can learn from if we take the time to actually LISTEN for a change.

I can agree with that. Also, let me say I have posted this here looking for answers because the news organizations of the world do not take the events that happen in Thailand seriously. It's maddening that they leave out important details and report on events only if it becomes crazy or massive, then it's just sound bites! I am fed up with these news sources and have thus headed for people on the ground and in the communities.

Those of us that have never fallen under the spell of charismatic leaders can only theoretically "understand", if that.

I suggest that Thaksin could be grouped under the "charismatic leader" category.

The Jonestown tragedy was ultimately a result of "charismatic leadership".

I mention Jonestown not as a parallel to Red Shirt mania, but to show how we outsiders can't fully understand the gullibility of the followers, albeit we may understand human fallibility and the fact of how smart talking can influence desperate people.

What about the Yellow shirts?

Most of the yellow shirts were hired help who were paid by Thaksin's enemies. Rich folks don't need to get their hands dirty. In fact, there are rumors that many wore redshirts as well. They will come out again if and when they are needed.

Up here in Chiang Mai, it was the usual stuff.

Development, roads, irrigation, mobile phones for the previously disconnected families ...etc.

..........

Trinkets for the plebians.....and a double whammy; he gets more customers for his company!!

Not trinkets for those families up country who've been trying (and failing) to get a landline installed for years.

Up here in Chiang Mai, it was the usual stuff.

Development, roads, irrigation, mobile phones for the previously disconnected families ...etc.

..........

Trinkets for the plebians.....and a double whammy; he gets more customers for his company!!

Not trinkets for those families up country who've been trying (and failing) to get a landline installed for years.

Trinkets to Thaksin...like colonialists giving colourful beads and blankets to the the natives to win them over.

Up here in Chiang Mai, it was the usual stuff.

Development, roads, irrigation, mobile phones for the previously disconnected families ...etc.

..........

Trinkets for the plebians.....and a double whammy; he gets more customers for his company!!

Not trinkets for those families up country who've been trying (and failing) to get a landline installed for years.

Trinkets to Thaksin...like colonialists giving colourful beads and blankets to the the natives to win them over.

You've just described politicians the world over.

Indeed. I'm not taking a poke at Thaksin per se....it's just the nature of the thread topic.

it must be noted that some of Ts populas programs such as loans to people who had no means to repay them was very much like the sub loan mess in the usa and when those people were required to pay them back many of them became angry. His 30 baht medical sceme did not go over well with much of the medical community as well. so what may look good on the surface is not always what it seems.

it must be noted that some of Ts populas programs such as loans to people who had no means to repay them was very much like the sub loan mess in the usa and when those people were required to pay them back many of them became angry. His 30 baht medical sceme did not go over well with much of the medical community as well. so what may look good on the surface is not always what it seems.

Sod the medical community! - they will always have 2 tier systems, private and public. My aunt moaned and moaned about being a doc with the national health service in the UK. 20 years she did... I got paid more as a programmer... when she found out computer nerds got more.. she simply took a private hospital job. The 30 baht health scheme is great! France, UK, Germany .. most civilised nations can provide a health scheme... now its time for the baby boomers in the USA to get some payback... after all their taxes paid for umpteen wars of aggression since the 60's ... so surely the state owes them. Now Thailand needs school subsidies, agro cartels biased towards the producer and all will be well.

Old Mr T may be a crook, but I would wager that the north,central and east of Thailand will be bled dry without representation. Already the crime rate is soaring up here in CM, the golden triangle is reforming...

Maybe we do need a bad ass in charge.

it must be noted that some of Ts populas programs such as loans to people who had no means to repay them was very much like the sub loan mess in the usa and when those people were required to pay them back many of them became angry. His 30 baht medical sceme did not go over well with much of the medical community as well. so what may look good on the surface is not always what it seems.

Sod the medical community! - they will always have 2 tier systems, private and public. My aunt moaned and moaned about being a doc with the national health service in the UK. 20 years she did... I got paid more as a programmer... when she found out computer nerds got more.. she simply took a private hospital job. The 30 baht health scheme is great! France, UK, Germany .. most civilised nations can provide a health scheme... now its time for the baby boomers in the USA to get some payback... after all their taxes paid for umpteen wars of aggression since the 60's ... so surely the state owes them. Now Thailand needs school subsidies, agro cartels biased towards the producer and all will be well.

Old Mr T may be a crook, but I would wager that the north,central and east of Thailand will be bled dry without representation. Already the crime rate is soaring up here in CM, the golden triangle is reforming...

Maybe we do need a bad ass in charge.

the 30 baht scheme ended up being free because the paper work cost more than the 30 baht the meds being given are off brand, many important meds do not come in a generic brand as is, it is better than nothing as an effective way to deliver quality health care it is a failure. please educate me and show me where entitelments have ever motivated people to do more for themselves. One of the things i like most about thais in the south is the way they start little businesses such as food stalls etc..

It's symbolic of the power struggle that's been at play in Thailand since time immemorial - the peasants v the aristocracy. The more power the hi-so's have, the more disadvantaged the peasant folk are likely to be. Their fight is not so much a noble gesture as a struggle that they see as being directed towards their own personal betterment.

It's symbolic of the power struggle that's been at play in Thailand since time immemorial - the peasants v the aristocracy. The more power the hi-so's have, the more disadvantaged the peasant folk are likely to be. Their fight is not so much a noble gesture as a struggle that they see as being directed towards their own personal betterment.

That's the problem with educating the masses. The peasants get ideas, then uppity. Raise the cost of education, I say, and within a generation or two, they will be back to their ignorant bliss, and the country can carry on with maintaining it's place in the world.

Up here in Chiang Mai, it was the usual stuff.

Development, roads, irrigation, mobile phones for the previously disconnected families ...etc.

..........

Trinkets for the plebians.....and a double whammy; he gets more customers for his company!!

Not trinkets for those families up country who've been trying (and failing) to get a landline installed for years.

Trinkets to Thaksin...like colonialists giving colourful beads and blankets to the the natives to win them over.

Just worth pointing out that whiterussian's original post also included "Development, roads, irrigation," which aren't just "trinkets".

Yes, worth pointing out if you assume the readers had not already digested that.

Perhaps I should make two posts each time; one normal, and one simplified......is that what you're sugesting?

How much El Tako had to do with the super highway, canal sytem out in San Kampaaaygn, mobile towers, health care etc... I don't know. My political advisor is my Wife, who majored in 'Hotel Studies' (reception[ism]) until dropping out due to an untimely scooter crash.

Any town that has a motorway that is half empty gets my vote...

Yes, worth pointing out if you assume the readers had not already digested that.

Perhaps I should make two posts each time; one normal, and one simplified......is that what you're sugesting?

I wasn't trying to pick a fight with you. I cut off endure's reply because the system wouldn't allow that many quotes. Anyway, now that you have replied it appears that you believe that readers "already digested" the value of infrastructure & roads but not that mobile phones were "trinkets". Otherwise, why post it? why? - because you are trying to belittle the reasons these people might feel the way they do. Do I remember correctly that you haven't actually lived in Thailand? Just visited once or twice? Curious for an occassional tourist to take sides in domestic politics.

btw - I don't care one way or the other about Thaksin. He was ousted 3 months before I had decided to move to Thailand and 11 months before I actually did. So I never experieced Thailand while he was in power so I have nothing to go by other than what I hear from people or read here. Since it's such a political hot potato I usually don't pay much attention to either side. Besides, it's their country, not mine. I was just a temporary resident for over 2 years.

For those of you that aren't reliant on the medical system in Thailand an unfunded 30 baht system might sound like a bit of a joke. To those Thais who've never had any health care at all a system that allows/allowed them access to a doctor at a cost of 30bt is little short of a miracle.

Just a few photos I took from yesterday.......The rally focused around Central World

and ran past Siam BTS.

Many of the businesses in the area were closed.

There is hope for OTB yet with such a gentlemanly discussion

of such a red hot topic.