Can't Afford To Go Home

[Lancelot]

The thought of having to go back to the UK to live, fills me with mild panic, why? I don’t know, I love my county and the British people, as individuals, but the UK, well the whole EU (EU, joke) is in the shitter! The politicians in Europe are no different to their Thai counterparts………..Just more rehearsed and slicker!!

I think the Brits are born with wanderlust

[IanForbes]

I feel sorry for those that can't go home due to finanacial reasons, but not so sorry as the poor of Thailand who were born into a world where there is little way out of. Most western countries have some form of socialism: free libraries, free education, and available jobs at a reasonable pay for those willing to work. Some poor farm girl from Issan doesn't have that opportunity, and her parents send her off to the cities to SUPPORT THEM anyway she can!

It all comes down to long range planning and the willingness to work. If you think life is a free ride then somewhere along the way it's going to catch up to you. It's the same with burning your bridges behind you... IT WAS YOUR CHOICE!

If you choose the wrong husband or wife then it was YOUR CHOICE when things inevitably fail!

I know lots of reasonably young farangs who basically burnt their bridges at home and came to Thailand to have a good time. Now they have to eek out a meagre living like so many of the Thais do. It was a choice they made and now have to live with it. Sorry, but there's no free ride in life... except for a lucky few who hit some lottery jackpot.

[citizen33]

I'm "home" in the UK now. It's about 10 degrees, it's cold and windy.

I just want to get home to KK.....

I tend to agree with Jamie, but I'm spending a few days under cloudy skies in a rather humid BKK having flown in on Saturday, and the Thai wife is complaining that it's too hot and she misses her UK friends! It just goes to show that life isn't simple. Will be passing through KK in about a week en route to our Isaan home.

Back on topic, what worries me is what people who are broke do about medical care past retirement age in Thailand.

[rick75]

I can't imagine being in a position of being stuck in another country with so little, I guess a lot of people throw in the towel in there home countries and move to the bright lights of Thailand without really thinking of what is involved.

There has been in the past some very good threads by some very intelligent people breaking down the real costs of living in Thailand now and in the future, if one reads these it is scary to see just how expensive life in Thailand really is and more so what the real costs are going to be in the future.

One guy broke down the costs of starting with $1 000 000 us in the bank and it worked out that you would eat through the entire amount in 20 years, what it shows is that when you start to eat into your principle amount which I think was in year 12 then there is a very quick slide to poverty, i think if more people sat down and really thought through there plans they would change there minds.

Best of luck to those in a terrible situation.

[SeanMoran]

I can't imagine being in a position of being stuck in another country with so little, I guess a lot of people throw in the towel in there home countries and move to the bright lights of Thailand without really thinking of what is involved.

There has been in the past some very good threads by some very intelligent people breaking down the real costs of living in Thailand now and in the future, if one reads these it is scary to see just how expensive life in Thailand really is and more so what the real costs are going to be in the future.

One guy broke down the costs of starting with $1 000 000 us in the bank and it worked out that you would eat through the entire amount in 20 years, what it shows is that when you start to eat into your principle amount which I think was in year 12 then there is a very quick slide to poverty, i think if more people sat down and really thought through there plans they would change there minds.

Best of luck to those in a terrible situation.

We are all human. That's what it's about, mind you I hear that Nicaragua is more welcoming as a retirement destination if all you want are cheap ykw on pension days.

[rick75]

Yeh I understand that Sean, but a lot of people place themselves in harms way without really thinking it through, we are human, we all make mistakes, but some guy who spends two weeks here and then goes home and burns all bridges, by racking up debts etc. places themselves in that position knowing full well what they are doing.

If you are in that position I feel for ya, but another option may have been to work hard for another 10- 15 years or so and make a calculated judgement when the time was right to make the move and at that time move to LOS without a genuine care.

[SeanMoran]

Yeh I understand that Sean, but a lot of people place themselves in harms way without really thinking it through, we are human, we all make mistakes, but some guy who spends two weeks here and then goes home and burns all bridges, by racking up debts etc. places themselves in that position knowing full well what they are doing.

If you are in that position I feel for ya, but another option may have been to work hard for another 10- 15 years or so and make a calculated judgement when the time was right to make the move and at that time move to LOS without a genuine care.

Some people are not allowed to work here because we don't have the paperwork newly required. Before long the truth we see now in the madness of such a lazy directive will finally make it back to some of the elitist fools on borrowed time, but many of the victims of this stupidity are already on borrowed time, and we won't be here to benefit from the eventual enlightenment of the MoE, especially with drongoes raving on at forums like these about how they spent three years shacked up in the local taverns of academic institutions to qualify while the rest of us were out in the front line, actually DOING the job.

Thailand will reap what it sows regarding foreign employment, and although they've burnt their bridges with me, I remember my initial goals and wish Thailand the best of luck in it, but they're going about it wrongly, because the essence of FOREIGN languages is JUST THAT! You cannot apply Thai culture ways completely to some things, but I guess Thailand will sort that out in ten years or so.

I'll be in Nicaragua.

[bina]

thinking about moving to thailand. however, the question raised here is a very very real question for me. not all of us are in postiion, for whatever reason, to save money and then go off and retire. if i leave kibbutz, my kids lose half of what they can get through the kibbutz because of me (father is also here so they still get half: half pay for uni, half subsidised room/medical, until they hit 27yrs old)..., ifi leave, i get my shekels but per month, not in a lump sum like it used to be when someone left kibbutz; if i leave, i have no where to come back too. no house no apartment, no job, no unemployment (we are considered independants and not hired labour), i would have to keep paying monthly fee to keep my status in national medical scheme (there is no other); i have no family here (the few i am in contact with are scattered around the states) to give support and friends on kibbutz are not allowed to have someone stay for more then a month w/o paying some amount.

i burnt bridges when i moved here at age 21, am now 47; if i leave here, i burn them again. any regrets for then? no. thinking about moving to thailand with thai husband to live in poor poor setup in korat, yes. im working on a plan, how to deal with the kibbutz (maybe have a drawer plan for coming back for short time until re settled somewhere). there is a quaker saying: 'a way will open'. there usually is, just have to work very hard to find the way taht will open.

i would have to make up my mind that i wouldnt want any real treatment for any horrible diseases since farangs cost more in hospital. i would have to live like the thais around me (apart from internet). i would have to be resigned to the fact that if i returned here --not teh states, thats definately not an option, havent been there for more then a short vacation (5 yrs ao) for 20+ yrs: no land, no house, no social security, no job, no sellable skills (milking goats), i would be a stranger in a strange land)-- i would be coming back to nothing. and i would join the ranks of the non employed elderly living on nothing but maybe scraping by.

oth, i could stay here and not even try , until i die or get killed off in a car accident or bomb.

im a bit adventourous and not much to lose, so very definately thinking of the move even if i have problems coming back (still need money for visas and stuff-- really not sure hwo to do all that. hubby definately wont make more then the issan standard and i probably couldnt get a real visa work permit job.

hmmmmmmmm.... i dunno...... still seriously considering the move regardless..... better stay in good connection with my kids, they may be my ticket back in the long run........

bina

israel

[choppertony]

I think that to burn bridges and to move to Thailand permanateley or temperaly has to be well planned and all financial situations taken care of , How anyone can just up sticks and go must be a half wit , Just surviving and scrimping is,nt an option I,d like to think of , Is,nt the whole point in moving to L.O.S. is to have a better life with the sun on yer back and a long happy retirement ? As we all know or should do , Thailand does,nt give handouts , if you don,t work you starve , or you don,t have the means to support yourself your out . Planning for that better life is the only way . .

[SeanMoran]

I think that to burn bridges and to move to Thailand permanateley or temperaly has to be well planned and all financial situations taken care of , How anyone can just up sticks and go must be a half wit , Just surviving and scrimping is,nt an option I,d like to think of , Is,nt the whole point in moving to L.O.S. is to have a better life with the sun on yer back and a long happy retirement ? As we all know or should do , Thailand does,nt give handouts , if you don,t work you starve , or you don,t have the means to support yourself your out . Planning for that better life is the only way . .

Starve or not, it's what's in your heart that matters. You probaby won't find your heart on Walking Street, but anything is possible. TIT.

[samuibeachcomber]

[quote name='rick75' date='2010-03-29 18:40:51' post='3455

One guy broke down the costs of starting with $1 000 000 us in the bank and it worked out that you would eat through the entire amount in 20 years, what it shows is that when you start to eat into your principle amount which I think was in year 12 then there is a very quick slide to poverty, i think if more people sat down and really thought through there plans they would change there minds.

Best of luck to those in a terrible situation.

a sobering thought

[PhilHarries]

Why do people call it Going home, when they probable abandoned there Country for what ever reasons, for the land of not smiles,

...because not all of the expats in Thailand have "abandoned" their home country. There are a lot of us who came here with every intention of it being temporary.

And no matter how much these people slag off their home country, lke it or not, it is STILL their home country. It's about the only place in the world that they can be guaranteed entry and the ability to stay and work without all the legal hassles of visas and work permits.

I did bail out of Thailand back in 2004. Out of work since 2002, I'd hung on as long as I could but kept a wedge of money with the proviso that once I delved into it I used the bulk to book me a one way ticket back to the UK. So there I was one grey, cold April morning outside LHR T3, 51 y.o., no job, just enough money to get to my mother's house and a few day's spending and virtually no prospects. I spent nine months on the dole surviving on the jobseeker's allowance (lucky I could lodge at my mum's) before I landed a little job at a pittance of a wage, relatively speaking, but it was a start. The last five years have been a blast, worked with some of the best people in the business, in some wonderful locations and made a small fortune into the bargain.

The important thing, apart from not burning bridges, is to keep that wedge of cash for that all important flight home. It is also very important to prepare yourself mentally to leave because you will always be Jonny Foreigner in Thailand, tolerated if you have money, lower than a snake's belly if you haven't.

If it happened to me again I'd do it again because the alternative is just too bad to contemplate. Losers give up and become bitter individuals forever whinging and blaming other people for their plight, winners just get on with what they have and work things out.

[dobadoy]

Man, all these personal stories are amazing - the most fascinating thread i've ever read on on thai visa.

I came here umpteeen years ago, just a bag and 200,000 baht in travellers checks. No job, no place to live. Never been back since.

I now earn 80,000+ baht/month teaching, (peaceblondie posted about a friend on this kind of wage, its true; but you have to be in a decent school and you need decent qualifications to do it; at least a BA and a teaching degree, and the school must have some kind of English/International Program), but don't get me wrong -- I'm neither wealthy nor secure. I've got a two kids going through school and that costs a packet. I live in a rented (cheapish, 15k baht/month) house in bangkok, have no health insurance and not much in the way of savings. My worry, like others that have posted here, is the retirment issue. I've no pension and if I'm sick I don't earn. I'm not sick -- but I worry about getting sick, more so as each year passes by. What'll happen when I can't work is a huge worry, not just for myself but for my kids too.

Going back to my home country is no option. I've no family, property or anyting else there, and as I doubt there's any call for teaching English, looks like a no-no. I appreciate the advice from Sean and others about 'living for today', but when you've got kids to support its more complicated than that.

The upside ( i just realised that sounded really miserable reading it back) is aside for the worries, I'm happier day-on-day here than i ever was back home.

Edited March 29, 2010 by dobadoy

[wamberal]

I can't imagine being in a position of being stuck in another country with so little, I guess a lot of people throw in the towel in there home countries and move to the bright lights of Thailand without really thinking of what is involved.

There has been in the past some very good threads by some very intelligent people breaking down the real costs of living in Thailand now and in the future, if one reads these it is scary to see just how expensive life in Thailand really is and more so what the real costs are going to be in the future.

One guy broke down the costs of starting with $1 000 000 us in the bank and it worked out that you would eat through the entire amount in 20 years, what it shows is that when you start to eat into your principle amount which I think was in year 12 then there is a very quick slide to poverty, i think if more people sat down and really thought through there plans they would change there minds.

Best of luck to those in a terrible situation.

Anybody who starts out with USD one million dollars in retirement is better off than 95% of the population, not only in Thailand, but in the US, Europe, or most other places.

USD one million can be safely invested to return a net USD 40,000 a year, adjusted for inflation. Anybody who cannot survive on a net THB 120,000 a month is a fool. No need to spend the principal at all.

[PeaceBlondie]

A friend who can't tell the story here, earns over 85,000 baht a month at a state matayom school. Round trip tickets home to the West. More than the friend earned back home. And after-hours tutoring is 35,000 more. No need to return home.

85,000 bht per month? In another post here, various local "experts" said the maximum someone could earn teaching English in LOS would be 40,000 per mo. How does your friend come by such a high salary?

My friend is smart. It took four years to get the job, and hasn't taught English for many years. The job's not posted on ajarn.com.

[neverdie]

I can't imagine being in a position of being stuck in another country with so little, I guess a lot of people throw in the towel in there home countries and move to the bright lights of Thailand without really thinking of what is involved.

There has been in the past some very good threads by some very intelligent people breaking down the real costs of living in Thailand now and in the future, if one reads these it is scary to see just how expensive life in Thailand really is and more so what the real costs are going to be in the future.

One guy broke down the costs of starting with $1 000 000 us in the bank and it worked out that you would eat through the entire amount in 20 years, what it shows is that when you start to eat into your principle amount which I think was in year 12 then there is a very quick slide to poverty, i think if more people sat down and really thought through there plans they would change there minds.

Best of luck to those in a terrible situation.

^I think that million dollar scenario would almost definately on how you lived out your years, ie: living beyond your means etc......and that rings true no matter where you are.

I could quite comfortably live on the proceeds of $1,000,000 USD investment and still increase my capital by 3-4% each year (roughly in line with the CPI) and most certainly never run out of money in 20 years.

[CharlieHarper]

I can't imagine being in a position of being stuck in another country with so little, I guess a lot of people throw in the towel in there home countries and move to the bright lights of Thailand without really thinking of what is involved.

There has been in the past some very good threads by some very intelligent people breaking down the real costs of living in Thailand now and in the future, if one reads these it is scary to see just how expensive life in Thailand really is and more so what the real costs are going to be in the future.

One guy broke down the costs of starting with $1 000 000 us in the bank and it worked out that you would eat through the entire amount in 20 years, what it shows is that when you start to eat into your principle amount which I think was in year 12 then there is a very quick slide to poverty, i think if more people sat down and really thought through there plans they would change there minds.

Best of luck to those in a terrible situation.

If there is anyone with US$1m and is now panicking - don't worry, send it to me and I will guarantee you a monthly return large enough to live in Thailand and return your capital to you after 20 years....

I think this guy went to the same economics class as the guys who cant get 25,000 baht together to get out of Thailand - they can't save less than 70 baht a day for a year ????

[rick75]

I had a look for the particular post but I can't see it, there are just far too many posts on budgets and costs of living. The guy did not come off as an idiot, the break down of costs and returns on principle was very easy to understand and methodically done, he obviously had an accounting background. It was food for thought.

[needforspeed]

Intresting treat, nice honest stories:

Myself i could go back but have my children here settle and if go back to europe there is a tax cut on my salaris.

At the moment i got paid out of Malaysia and pay my tax over there.

I still have a house in Europe but i love it here and would not go back permanently, we go ones a year 2-3 weeks and that is more than enough for me.

Miss the sticky rice and naam tok moe

[witold]

I could quite comfortably live on the proceeds of $1,000,000 USD investment and still increase my capital by 3-4% each year (roughly in line with the CPI) and most certainly never run out of money in 20 years.

Yes, there is always that one person in the crowd that says they can live in BKK for 5K baht/month.  

But we are talking about typical scenarios of BKK/Phuket/Samui/Pattaya residents who want to live in Western-style/quality housing, have a wife to support, kids to educate, maybe car, buy house/condo, etc.  

A safe investments of bonds doesn't yield much, even on 1M USD.  Take out taxes, account for inflation, don't touch principle, and you will be surprised how little you get. 

For example, take a look at inflation-adjusted bonds from US Treasury.  http://www.treasurydirect.gov/news/pressroom/currenteebondratespr.htm   Currently earning 3.36%.  And guess what?  You get your 3.36% and most people are still liable to pay taxes!  Since you sound like a financial wiz, why don't you tell us how you make big income from 1M principle.  My guess is that you think a standard stock portfolio is low risk or something and want to roll the dice, but that is certainly not 'risk free' or 'low risk' by any financial standard definition.    

[witold]

It is generally easy to transition from expensive areas to cheap areas, but very hard to transition from cheap areas back to expensive areas.

This isn't LOS exclusive. People face the same dilemma moving from NYC to suburbs or rural areas in the US. Once you're there and earning suburb/rural salary, it's hard to transition back to NYC/big city life.

[Spee]

If you can't afford it, then home is where you are?? Make the best of it??

[smokie36]

It is generally easy to transition from expensive areas to cheap areas, but very hard to transition from cheap areas back to expensive areas.

This isn't LOS exclusive. People face the same dilemma moving from NYC to suburbs or rural areas in the US. Once you're there and earning suburb/rural salary, it's hard to transition back to NYC/big city life.

Its easy enough if you are earning good money. I move from rural areas of Scotland to central London through work without a hint of bother. Dunno what you mean?

[witold]

It is generally easy to transition from expensive areas to cheap areas, but very hard to transition from cheap areas back to expensive areas.

This isn't LOS exclusive. People face the same dilemma moving from NYC to suburbs or rural areas in the US. Once you're there and earning suburb/rural salary, it's hard to transition back to NYC/big city life.

Its easy enough if you are earning good money. I move from rural areas of Scotland to central London through work without a hint of bother. Dunno what you mean?

I mean someone who has been living a pretty nice life in rural US in a 100K house will have financial difficulties buying similar accommodations in NYC.  If international, job concerns also play a big role.

Edited April 2, 2010 by witold

[smokie36]

It is generally easy to transition from expensive areas to cheap areas, but very hard to transition from cheap areas back to expensive areas.

This isn't LOS exclusive. People face the same dilemma moving from NYC to suburbs or rural areas in the US. Once you're there and earning suburb/rural salary, it's hard to transition back to NYC/big city life.

Its easy enough if you are earning good money. I move from rural areas of Scotland to central London through work without a hint of bother. Dunno what you mean?

I mean someone who has been living a pretty nice life in rural US in a 100K house will have financial difficulties buying similar accommodations in NYC. If international, job concerns also play a big role.

Ah ok real estate.

[Spee]

100K house will have financial difficulties buying similar accommodations in NYC.

100k house in NYC is a tenement slum at worst, a one room studio condo in a crappy neighborhood at best.

IN other words, if you're making 100k and living in NYC, you ain't making it.

[gravion]

no money, the end of my life. i cant be bothered living anymore. why live? what for????

just drop yourself from a building and everything will be over.

im pretty sure this will be my scenario.

[elkangorito]

Can't Afford To Go Home, What would you do?

I'd stay here.

Dying in my home country as compared to dying here is equal.

Living in my home country is a 'pain in the arse' compared to living here (Thai cultural crap is easily circumvented in most cases).

[NADTATIDA1]

This is a really interesting thread,there have been times over the years when i have not been able to afford to get back to my home in Thailand(when in Thailand) never mind the Uk!

It does give you a kick up the backside until the next time it happens and i have said to myself before never let yourself get into that situation again,as said before by jing thing the sense of survival does keep you feeling on your toes and very much alive,but is not for everybody!

I remember 10 years ago i flew back to Heathrow with 4 pound in my pocket and a bag,i have never took money from the welfare system there and always found a way to earn money to fund my wunderlust lifestyle.

Gradually over the last few years mainly because of the introduction of children..... i have got myself ingrained in living a Thai lifestyle cheap and easy.... very relaxing and little or no stress,i could not imagine going back to the Uk again at the moment... after a visit last year that was so depressing and miserable...but as i always say never say never to anything!

I am very happy at the moment but when in Thailand you know to expect the unexpected which also keeps you aware that your home is that ,.......just a home not massively important in the adventures you have while on this planet.

As long as my kids are ok and taken care of i can feel secure in that thought alone.....wherever home is?

The worst situation is not having the 25.000 bt to pay your overstay at the airport as well as not having your ticket fare home,this happened to a mate of mine,he was scared of going outside his home in case he got stopped.a real nightmare,thankfully a few of us chipped in to pay is overstay and he managed to get home to the states,he had been on overstay for 8 years,now he is back and has his pension and very happy.

[smokie36]

100K house will have financial difficulties buying similar accommodations in NYC.

100k house in NYC is a tenement slum at worst, a one room studio condo in a crappy neighborhood at best.

IN other words, if you're making 100k and living in NYC, you ain't making it.

Sparked my interest now because you couldn't buy more than a garage for that amount in London. But nowhere is a tenement slum area really.

And I thought London was bad.