Any topic regarding sex, or relationships between Thais and Westerners, always turns into a pissing match with people ridiculing others. I was going to post this on the "general" forum, but it would be just more work for the mods separating all the polarized opinions that always turn nasty, and would probably be shut down quickly. Although this place is called Bedlam, it seems to be a more rational forum where people are a little more open minded. Why can't people have rational discussions on controversial topics?

I understand the reason why we can't openly discuss prostitution. That is because it is illegal in Thailand and would bring too much heat on the forum, and too much work for moderators. But, there are many ways to discuss a topic without getting into specifics or personalities.

What usually happens is a valid topic starts out okay with reasonable replies, and then someone has a little fun teasing one of the other members. That gets a reply, but then it seems to go sideways and changes the direction to a different topic. And, one which then starts a bunch of bickering. I can post a simple picture of myself with a couple pretty ladies, where we are all just having fun, and it turns into a discussion about paying for sex. People seem to be bitter about life and can't stand the thought that other folks might be enjoying themselves. What goes on between consenting adults should be nobody else's business but their own.

I've got lots of lady friends all over the globe: Thailand, Germany, Australia, New Zealand, USA, the UK and Canada. Most are just platonic friends, but a few are lovers, or former loves. I could post a photo of them and nobody would mind, but if I post a photo of a young Thai lady then people jump to conclusions and often make assumptions that just aren't true. The same goes with photos of children. And, none of my posted photos are in any way sexual.

Any topic regarding sex always turns into a pissing match. Hypocrites, and those that ALWAYS assume the worst, just can't wait to start jumping out of the woodwork with their nasty replies. If someone is in doubt about a topic then take it to the private message board and discuss it rationally. I answer every message sent to me with a rational reply.

It really is too bad that we can't debate a contoversial topic.

It really is too bad that we can't debate a controversial topic.

what, pray tell, should be discussed?

It really is too bad that we can't debate a controversial topic.

what, pray tell, should be discussed?

That is precisely what I want to know... and the reason for my topic. Some things you can't even mention.

I tend to stay away from discussions of politics and religion, but the individuals who are a part of either are fair game, to a point. Sex, riots, driving, food, farming, oil, present and ex wives, etc, etc. I enjoy discussion and other peoples experience/opinion can be informative, interesting, and in some cases, eye opening. Yes some people seem to go out of their way to start a pissing match by innuendo, pulling something out of context, reading much more into a post than what was said, spout generalizations that, if a presented via essay to any educational institution, would more than likely be returned with a grade of F_ . Then you have those, who feel the world is prosecuting them personally in some way, and certain members are seen as the source of this agitation.

It is a shame that some topics can not be discussed and others that are allowed are met with such seemingly irrational responses, those made after a night on the piss, but the drunk contributors, surely aren't out there from 0600 to 1200???

IMHO this topic merits a transfer to Outside the Box if the OP wants a serious discussion.

If on the other hand Ian would like the Bedlam treatment, might I suggest the Spank Paddles.......

IMHO this topic merits a transfer to Outside the Box if the OP wants a serious discussion.

If on the other hand Ian would like the Bedlam treatment, might I suggest the Spank Paddles.......

I'm always walking on eggs when I post something in thaivisa. I do know the boundries, but too often something is taken out of context or people (including moderators) make false assumptions of others comments. I get the spank paddles often enough, LeungKen.

Anyway, rrose070 started a topic on the Chiang Mai forum that I was thinking about, so I didn't bother to make a similar one. And, despite a few "deletions" it's remained fairly civil and interesting.

Personally, I don't mind a thread going a bit off topic if it sticks somewhat to the main ideas. It's only when two people start a jousting match on someone else's thread, and do not stay on topic, that it bothers me and others. Personal grudges should be taken to private messages until they get their points across to each other. Or, just don't rise to the bait that others throw out to stir up trouble.

Ooh, i'd forgotten about the spank paddles..

Talking of spank paddles, where is the man?

He said a couple of weeks ago that he was going to be busy and wouldn't be getting on here much. He didn't say how long that would be.

Ooh, i'd forgotten about the spank paddles..

How?

Lack of use or in denial?

Ooh, i'd forgotten about the spank paddles..

Ya missing a good paddy whack spanking? Patsy

........ ....... pick up my paddle and go home.

Not at all, just forgotten about them!!

Yes, it's about time Tiggs wandered back into the room and reminded you about them

Tiggy, come back, your paddles are getting..um... moldy?

--

Ian, if anyone posts a lot of their private life on a public forum, the chances are they will have people commenting on it in some negative form. Seems the nature of the forum beast. However, im sure the reasons why people do it differ vastly. Some may be bating you, or winding you up, some may genuinely feel some annoyance or distaste at how you live your life, and some may be jealous..the reasons go on and on. But, when people bicker and get fired up about even small things that are hardly worth the time, are you surprised that they wouldnt sink their teeth into something far more juicy than a forum members highly publicised personal life?

Eek, I don't give a rat's azz if people take shots at me personally or not. Fact is I get a kick out of it because I'm always willing to debate a controversial subject. But, I've followed a lot of Thai threads in the past year and a half and the ones that garner the greatest attention are the ones about sexuality or personal tastes. Mark45 has a topic going on for 15 pages about whether or not his Thai friend/maid should have redone her old tatoo. Others have threads going on for longer than that if it's about their personal life or about sexuality and relationships. Those are always the threads that need the most moderating, and frequently get closed. It seems to me that any topic to do with sex holds far more interest than any other subject. That tells me that people either aren't getting enough sex or what they are getting is of such poor quality that they are forced to take up other pursuits to curb their real interest. And, because of that they are bitter and nasty towards anyone who IS enjoying life.

I duno Ian, sex always sells (to quote an old adage). Even people who have a great sex life still find subjects regarding sex interesting or curious. In fact, it may be that the more sex a person has, the more interested they are. A dull boring sex life can switch off the urge. No matter how evolved we eventually become (lets hope ) i think sex will always be a fascinating subject for us.

The virginity one was quite amusing.

I duno Ian, sex always sells (to quote an old adage). Even people who have a great sex life still find subjects regarding sex interesting or curious. In fact, it may be that the more sex a person has, the more interested they are. A dull boring sex life can switch off the urge. No matter how evolved we eventually become (lets hope ) i think sex will always be a fascinating subject for us.

Well, if you're talking nookie, I think Outside the Box is the best place.

I duno Ian, sex always sells (to quote an old adage). Even people who have a great sex life still find subjects regarding sex interesting or curious. In fact, it may be that the more sex a person has, the more interested they are. A dull boring sex life can switch off the urge. No matter how evolved we eventually become (lets hope ) i think sex will always be a fascinating subject for us.

Well, if you're talking nookie, I think Outside the Box is the best place.

Double meanings again?

In Canada they are actually advertising a new energy drink called "Beaver Buzz" and one guy says ..."I'm going to go grab a beaver"

My personal opinion, I have always found the topic of sex to be interesting and informative, if with people of agreement. Sex itself has to be one of the best fun and fulfilling exercises enjoyed by man and woman. A article noted the number of times men thought about sex during each day and it was a almost unbelievable high number. If memory serves correctly women were no slouches either. Do not remember how they arrived at the numbers but it was not a government project but independent study. I have found mixed group discussion to be most informative about the people who participate but then I like to observe and listen to people. Discussion on any forum of the topic would be kind of like washing your feet with socks on, compared to face to face. The facial expressions, body language, voice tone, etc add so much to the discussion. Can Ian pick up the double innuendo?

My personal opinion, I have always found the topic of sex to be interesting and informative, if with people of agreement. Sex itself has to be one of the best fun and fulfilling exercises enjoyed by man and woman. A article noted the number of times men thought about sex during each day and it was a almost unbelievable high number. If memory serves correctly women were no slouches either. Do not remember how they arrived at the numbers but it was not a government project but independent study. I have found mixed group discussion to be most informative about the people who participate but then I like to observe and listen to people. Discussion on any forum of the topic would be kind of like washing your feet with socks on, compared to face to face. The facial expressions, body language, voice tone, etc add so much to the discussion. Can Ian pick up the double innuendo?

I agree with you, slapout. What I find a bit tiring is people who want to put down others when if given the same opportunity they would indulge themselves... The Catholic church priests are one example. No question that private discussions between a mutually interested couple is much more satisfying. And there's no question that facial expressions, body language and voice tone is far more telling than anything written or said. I've met many good "actresses" but I can always tell if they are truly enjoying themselves or not. With a man it is far more obvious.

Ian..I'll be frank (not literally..this isnt a role playing game.. gawd..bad joke.. moving on...), i dont think people in general have any problems with other peoples sex lives. Its when things like paying for it that it becomes something that people start getting fidgety about. Its a sensitive subject, and again, if one broadcasts their way of life openly to others, when it is controversial in some way, it will always be a target for negative comments.

Also..i have the feeling most men have absolutely no idea if a woman is truly enjoying herself or not. Most men are notoriously bad at reading women, and often read them wrong (im talking about out of the sack here..but of course, in the sack comes into it too). Ive often been misread by men because im polite but im also quite shy. I am rarely rude and engage in conversation even when im not really in the mood. At times men have read that i must then be interested in them, when im not (I mean interested as in physically etc..not just as friends). However, ive never had to pretend in the bedroom. Im in the position in my life thankfully, that i dont have to invite anyone into my bed that im not truly interested in.

eek; you sound like you have your head on straight, for what my opinion is worth???? Now take the whole of post# 22, paragraph 2 and substitute or do and/or with the word man added and bingo you have a winner.

I wouldnt dare to speak for a man slapout! I just give my humble female perspective.

Ian..I'll be frank (not literally..this isnt a role playing game.. gawd..bad joke.. moving on...), i dont think people in general have any problems with other peoples sex lives. Its when things like paying for it that it becomes something that people start getting fidgety about. Its a sensitive subject, and again, if one broadcasts their way of life openly to others, when it is controversial in some way, it will always be a target for negative comments.

Also..i have the feeling most men have absolutely no idea if a woman is truly enjoying herself or not. Most men are notoriously bad at reading women, and often read them wrong (im talking about out of the sack here..but of course, in the sack comes into it too). Ive often been misread by men because im polite but im also quite shy. I am rarely rude and engage in conversation even when im not really in the mood. At times men have read that i must then be interested in them, when im not (I mean interested as in physically etc..not just as friends). However, ive never had to pretend in the bedroom. Im in the position in my life thankfully, that i dont have to invite anyone into my bed that im not truly interested in.

I have to agree with you AGAIN, eek... As I usually do. That is why a lot of us thought you would be a good moderator.

Most of us can only see things through our own feelings and experiences. I have two sisters and I've always been comfortable with women and my own sexuality, so I can only speak for myself. I'm constantly surprised when I see people doing things that offend others, and without even thinking about it. I know instantly when someone is upset even if they are trying hard to hide it. I think women are more in tune with it than men, as well.

I DO know that many men blunder along and assume all sorts of things that aren't true. That is why a woman has to be more careful in the signals she is sending out. A woman just being polite can make a stupid man think the woman is iterested in him... as you already pointed out. The smart bar girls are very adept at making men THINK that he is the ONE, when in fact it's all about the money! Of course, it's all about the money for those that marry for status and power. A classic example is Jacqueline Kennedy marrying Aristotle Onassis. It was hardly for his good looks.

But, a lot of women make false assumptions as well. That is okay just so long as they don't ACT on those false assumptions. On these forums we can only read into them what someone has written. There is no body language to tell us differently. It takes a while to slowly learn what makes some of us tick on these forums. As far as the sex thing is concerned I've come to realize that we all pay for it one way or another... even if it's having to do something we would rather not do just to please your partner. And, what goes on between consenting adults should be nobody else's concern but the people involved. I was going to say "couple" but sometimes there are threesomes.

Eek, I don't give a rat's azz if people take shots at me personally or not. Fact is I get a kick out of it because I'm always willing to debate a controversial subject. But, I've followed a lot of Thai threads in the past year and a half and the ones that garner the greatest attention are the ones about sexuality or personal tastes. Mark45 has a topic going on for 15 pages about whether or not his Thai friend/maid should have redone her old tatoo. Others have threads going on for longer than that if it's about their personal life or about sexuality and relationships. Those are always the threads that need the most moderating, and frequently get closed. It seems to me that any topic to do with sex holds far more interest than any other subject. That tells me that people either aren't getting enough sex or what they are getting is of such poor quality that they are forced to take up other pursuits to curb their real interest. And, because of that they are bitter and nasty towards anyone who IS enjoying life.

I could have made the tattoo thread more interesting if I had told the whole story. I didn’t because it might have been even more inappropriate than it was anyway.

I have a history with tattoos. My third wife was going to tattoo my name on her left breast for my birthday. I thought that was cool. Although it was long ago when I was drinking quite a bit.

On my birthday she came home looking exhausted. I thought she must have had a long session with the tattoo artist. When she took off her shirt instead of a tattoo she had gotten both nipples pierced.

That freaked me out. I was angry. Why do you think I was angry? OK does everyone have an opinion?

I was angry because she didn’t let me watch! I like watching unusual things. That’s why I like Pattaya.

The virginity poll was fascinating reading. It really brought out a myriad of different opinions.

I was sad when the virginity thread closed. I thought it had the potential to bring out some really great information. It was a fun read. It had all the elements of a great drama. But it is really a taboo subject. The whole issue reminds me of my catholic school upbringing. A group of immoral hypocrites in charge telling moral and virtuous people what they can and cannot discuss.

Which brings up another great topic for the general forum. Why do Catholics like Pattaya? How long do you think that thread would stay open?

I think the only chance at gaining some insight from the topic would be if Eek or SBK started the thread.

Considering I don't give a rats arse about why Catholics go to Pattaya, why people get tattoos or what they think of virgins, you won't get much chance of that happening.

I don't have animosity towards the whole thing, I just find it to be very public and immature behavior. Very reminiscent of the schoolboys "mine is bigger than yours" stuff that most guys really should have grown out of at the age 25. (I will give you guys 25 cause I know it takes you longer )

Ian..I'll be frank (not literally..this isnt a role playing game.. gawd..bad joke.. moving on...), i dont think people in general have any problems with other peoples sex lives. Its when things like paying for it that it becomes something that people start getting fidgety about. Its a sensitive subject, and again, if one broadcasts their way of life openly to others, when it is controversial in some way, it will always be a target for negative comments.

Also..i have the feeling most men have absolutely no idea if a woman is truly enjoying herself or not. Most men are notoriously bad at reading women, and often read them wrong (im talking about out of the sack here..but of course, in the sack comes into it too). Ive often been misread by men because im polite but im also quite shy. I am rarely rude and engage in conversation even when im not really in the mood. At times men have read that i must then be interested in them, when im not (I mean interested as in physically etc..not just as friends). However, ive never had to pretend in the bedroom. Im in the position in my life thankfully, that i dont have to invite anyone into my bed that im not truly interested in.

I have to agree with you AGAIN, eek... As I usually do. That is why a lot of us thought you would be a good moderator.

Most of us can only see things through our own feelings and experiences. I have two sisters and I've always been comfortable with women and my own sexuality, so I can only speak for myself. I'm constantly surprised when I see people doing things that offend others, and without even thinking about it. I know instantly when someone is upset even if they are trying hard to hide it. I think women are more in tune with it than men, as well.

I DO know that many men blunder along and assume all sorts of things that aren't true. That is why a woman has to be more careful in the signals she is sending out. A woman just being polite can make a stupid man think the woman is iterested in him... as you already pointed out. The smart bar girls are very adept at making men THINK that he is the ONE, when in fact it's all about the money! Of course, it's all about the money for those that marry for status and power. A classic example is Jacqueline Kennedy marrying Aristotle Onassis. It was hardly for his good looks.

But, a lot of women make false assumptions as well. That is okay just so long as they don't ACT on those false assumptions. On these forums we can only read into them what someone has written. There is no body language to tell us differently. It takes a while to slowly learn what makes some of us tick on these forums. As far as the sex thing is concerned I've come to realize that we all pay for it one way or another... even if it's having to do something we would rather not do just to please your partner. And, what goes on between consenting adults should be nobody else's concern but the people involved. I was going to say "couple" but sometimes there are threesomes.

Love 3 somes, me and 2 genuine gals....... grrrrrrrrrrrr.

Considering I don't give a rats arse about why Catholics go to Pattaya, why people get tattoos or what they think of virgins, you won't get much chance of that happening.

I don't have animosity towards the whole thing, I just find it to be very public and immature behavior. Very reminiscent of the schoolboys "mine is bigger than yours" stuff that most guys really should have grown out of at the age 25. (I will give you guys 25 cause I know it takes you longer )

Thailand owes a lot to Catholics. It is not just a school boy thing although that is a part of it. It is also a girls school thing. It was not fun going out with the girls from the government (read public or private schools depending on your country of origin) schools. They were sane and well adjusted. It was the girls from Catholic schools who added guilt to sex. The Catholic boys schools added the same element of guilt to the boys.

Pattaya is all about guilt and animosity towards sexuality. Virginity is all about guilt.

I don’t get the connection about mine is bigger than yours thing. I thought that was an Issan issue.

I think most men don’t have a sex problem quite a bit before they reach 25. I think most men are relatively well adjusted by 22 or so. But not Catholics. They carry the sexual hang ups introduced by religion and carried on by their wives and mothers way past middle age. That’s why there are so many Catholics in Pattaya. Check out the gender statistics of contributors to television evangelists. That’s why you get so much gender animosity and sexual animosity.

I would think most of the problems having to do with middle aged men are introduced by Catholicism or another religion with the same purpose in mind.

Without guilt why have religion. Guilt is what fills the collection plate. Real Thai Buddhism as practiced daily is the same type of thing. Almost any transgression can be voided by making merit or giving the Wat or Monks money. Which is another reason Catholics are so much at home in Thailand. They are used to the system.

In answer to the question posed, why the animosity about sexuality? Religion. Religion mostly imposed on young children. It plants the seed and as the child grows into an adult he or she becomes intolerant of what should be a natural function. Hence the arguments about virginity. Some feel it is important others feel exactly the opposite but for the same reason. Some people can’t tolerate intolerance and others can’t tolerate tolerance. They are completely different but both people can’t tolerate something. So both people are intolerant.

If I introduced a topic like Catholics in Pattaya I would get beat up and thrown out in a New York minute. However if you did you might find out that Catholics are over represented in Pattaya by a large percent. Now that has nothing to do with who’s thing is bigger or tattoos. It would bring up the question about why are Catholics so over represented in Pattaya. When I told my mother a long time ago that the priests at school were either gay or drunks she smacked me and called me a liar. I was used to it; the priests smacked all the time anyway.

After a 1500 years the church is beginning to realize celibacy doesn’t work. I get the impression that that would be new news to a lot of people. I surly think that that is why there is so much animosity against sex here.

I think most men don’t have a sex problem quite a bit before they reach 25

Um, no. I was not talking about sexual issues.