Worsening Crisis Pushes Thailand Towards Anarchy

[lannarebirth]

Some consensus from both sides of the political divide here on the forum:-

The standard of journalism of The Nation is poor, very poor, dropping....

Suthep Thaugsuban is not a great chap to be in control of anything...regardless of what shirt you wear or don't wear!

Yeah, he's not good, but I don't know of any "clean" political party that doesn't have a go to guy "fixer" with not so nice chacteristics. Same with dirty politicians usually having a "mr clean" guy for public consumption.

Edited April 27, 2010 by lannarebirth

[Netfan]

PAD backs off

The anti-Thaksin group gave a seven-day deadline for the government deal with the red shirts - but now says it will not take to the streets again.

Are they scared of the truth hitting them?

Maybe being reasonable and trying to avoid violence, as opposed to the Reds trying to provoke it.

[agord]

The "opinion piece" starts of by stating a fact....."Red thugs are terrorizing law abiding citizens almost nation wide" Do you read that as just

an opinion?

I saw at the top in big red letters it was an OPINION so I knew before reading it what to expect but to answer your question NO I take it as a fact and what is REALLY happening even if some choose to ignore it or think it's justified. I think I would be terrified to come across an ILLEGAL road block and I'm pretty sure i would be terrifed if I was waiting for the BTS and a grenade went off at the station, terrified if blood was being thrown around me. Are you saying that absolutely no law abiding citizens are terrified by any of this? didn't think so! FACT

[Neurath]

Where is Sondhi Lim? I heard he survived the shooting. Sondhi Lim seems to have disappeared, leaving poor old Chamlong doing all the hard work.

Seems he's somewhat scared:

this speech by Sondhi Lim is cited by Bangkok Pundit as an ASTV report สนธิ – แล้วก็ ช่วงนี้ก็ไปปล่อยข่าวลือว่าผมนี่ถูกสั่งยิงโดย..โดยฟ้า แล้วเขาก็ไม่รู้นะครับว่าข้างบนเขาก็รู้ว่านี่คือข่าวลือที่พวกเขาปล่อยมา แล้วใครปล่อยเขาก็รู้ ปล่อยผ่านพระองค์หนึ่งแถวๆ ยานนาวา พระองค์นั้นท่านก็ฉุนว่าเอาท่านไปเกี่ยวข้องอะไร ท่านก็โทร.ไปรายงานฟ้าเหมือนกันว่าท่านไม่เกี่ยวข้อง แล้วบอกด้วยว่าใครเป็นคนปล่อยข่าวลือ นี่คือความทุกข์ มันปิดไม่มิดหรอก เอามือปิดฟ้าได้ยังไง

Sondhi L – And at the moment there are rumours that someone in the sky ordered the hit on me. And those in a high place don’t know whether it is the rumour that they spread. And who spread it they know. It was said it was spread through one monk near the Yawana district, but that monk was angry and denied it. He telephoned me and to someone high up that he was not involved and said who was it that spread this rumour. This is is distressing. It cannot be completely concealed. How can you use your hand to cover up the sky?

[humfurry]

Thank you for your candid admission to Reds being more violent. It has been visible from the pics and videos for awhile AND certainly noticeable from the Red stages but up until now you have avoided mentioning red violence.

BTW --- Thailand is still not France.

No, you are mistaken. I just state that the Farmers are far more tougher than the average Middle Class. But as people utilising their muscles for heavy jobs, they are less violent for starting a struggle, far more reserved to use their strength, less agressive, in fact more peaceful than the average. However if the provocation is coming they will replicate strongly and I have no doubt about the winners .....

Beyond a bad back not sure where they would be getting so much strength unless it is lifting all that Thai whiskey in the months they spend not farming. Remember the elite middle class can all afford gyms and personal trainers to sculpt their bodies and of course the best.

But seriously ... when is the fight between the middle class and the poor coming? Right now it is about largely thugs and terrorists who will be going up against a military.

PS. everybody is non-violent until they are.

I raised this question in another thread or maybe this one - the problem here is the middle classes are so politically apathetic, that it will take at least a generation for them to become enfranchised. It has been suggested that they are as much a part of the problem as the sides actually warring each other. Their mai pen rai attitude has tacitly condoned all sorts of behaviour over the last decades and this ambivalence has created the breakdown that we see erupting to the surface today. The lack of their involvement in the political debate is part of the immaturity of democracy in Thailand. In many the countries around the world, they are an integral part of shaping the agenda, but dare I say it, not here....

And so where in this scholarly debate would that put their brethren 'the poor'? Perhaps several generations behind the middle class?

[chantorn]

Who cares if the photos were shopped or not.

It is more fun to argue if Thaksin is dead or alive.

Who say he is already dead? How many say he is still alive?

[way2muchcoffee]

Where is Sondhi Lim? I heard he survived the shooting. Sondhi Lim seems to have disappeared, leaving poor old Chamlong doing all the hard work.

Seems he's somewhat scared:

this speech by Sondhi Lim is cited by Bangkok Pundit as an ASTV report สนธิ – แล้วก็ ช่วงนี้ก็ไปปล่อยข่าวลือว่าผมนี่ถูกสั่งยิงโดย..โดยฟ้า แล้วเขาก็ไม่รู้นะครับว่าข้างบนเขาก็รู้ว่านี่คือข่าวลือที่พวกเขาปล่อยมา แล้วใครปล่อยเขาก็รู้ ปล่อยผ่านพระองค์หนึ่งแถวๆ ยานนาวา พระองค์นั้นท่านก็ฉุนว่าเอาท่านไปเกี่ยวข้องอะไร ท่านก็โทร.ไปรายงานฟ้าเหมือนกันว่าท่านไม่เกี่ยวข้อง แล้วบอกด้วยว่าใครเป็นคนปล่อยข่าวลือ นี่คือความทุกข์ มันปิดไม่มิดหรอก เอามือปิดฟ้าได้ยังไง

Sondhi L – And at the moment there are rumours that someone in the sky ordered the hit on me. And those in a high place don’t know whether it is the rumour that they spread. And who spread it they know. It was said it was spread through one monk near the Yawana district, but that monk was angry and denied it. He telephoned me and to someone high up that he was not involved and said who was it that spread this rumour. This is is distressing. It cannot be completely concealed. How can you use your hand to cover up the sky?

Who shot Sondhi?

[chantorn]

Where is Sondhi Lim? I heard he survived the shooting. Sondhi Lim seems to have disappeared, leaving poor old Chamlong doing all the hard work.

Seems he's somewhat scared:

this speech by Sondhi Lim is cited by Bangkok Pundit as an ASTV report สนธิ – แล้วก็ ช่วงนี้ก็ไปปล่อยข่าวลือว่าผมนี่ถูกสั่งยิงโดย..โดยฟ้า แล้วเขาก็ไม่รู้นะครับว่าข้างบนเขาก็รู้ว่านี่คือข่าวลือที่พวกเขาปล่อยมา แล้วใครปล่อยเขาก็รู้ ปล่อยผ่านพระองค์หนึ่งแถวๆ ยานนาวา พระองค์นั้นท่านก็ฉุนว่าเอาท่านไปเกี่ยวข้องอะไร ท่านก็โทร.ไปรายงานฟ้าเหมือนกันว่าท่านไม่เกี่ยวข้อง แล้วบอกด้วยว่าใครเป็นคนปล่อยข่าวลือ นี่คือความทุกข์ มันปิดไม่มิดหรอก เอามือปิดฟ้าได้ยังไง

Sondhi L – And at the moment there are rumours that someone in the sky ordered the hit on me. And those in a high place don't know whether it is the rumour that they spread. And who spread it they know. It was said it was spread through one monk near the Yawana district, but that monk was angry and denied it. He telephoned me and to someone high up that he was not involved and said who was it that spread this rumour. This is is distressing. It cannot be completely concealed. How can you use your hand to cover up the sky?

You mean he is a nut case now?

[Neurath]

Where is Sondhi Lim? I heard he survived the shooting. Sondhi Lim seems to have disappeared, leaving poor old Chamlong doing all the hard work.

Seems he's somewhat scared:

this speech by Sondhi Lim is cited by Bangkok Pundit as an ASTV report สนธิ – แล้วก็ ช่วงนี้ก็ไปปล่อยข่าวลือว่าผมนี่ถูกสั่งยิงโดย..โดยฟ้า แล้วเขาก็ไม่รู้นะครับว่าข้างบนเขาก็รู้ว่านี่คือข่าวลือที่พวกเขาปล่อยมา แล้วใครปล่อยเขาก็รู้ ปล่อยผ่านพระองค์หนึ่งแถวๆ ยานนาวา พระองค์นั้นท่านก็ฉุนว่าเอาท่านไปเกี่ยวข้องอะไร ท่านก็โทร.ไปรายงานฟ้าเหมือนกันว่าท่านไม่เกี่ยวข้อง แล้วบอกด้วยว่าใครเป็นคนปล่อยข่าวลือ นี่คือความทุกข์ มันปิดไม่มิดหรอก เอามือปิดฟ้าได้ยังไง

Sondhi L – And at the moment there are rumours that someone in the sky ordered the hit on me. And those in a high place don't know whether it is the rumour that they spread. And who spread it they know. It was said it was spread through one monk near the Yawana district, but that monk was angry and denied it. He telephoned me and to someone high up that he was not involved and said who was it that spread this rumour. This is is distressing. It cannot be completely concealed. How can you use your hand to cover up the sky?

Who shot Sondhi?

Bullets came from Lopburri. Lots of people in Lopburri.

[humfurry]

Where is Sondhi Lim? I heard he survived the shooting. Sondhi Lim seems to have disappeared, leaving poor old Chamlong doing all the hard work.

Seems he's somewhat scared:

this speech by Sondhi Lim is cited by Bangkok Pundit as an ASTV report สนธิ – แล้วก็ ช่วงนี้ก็ไปปล่อยข่าวลือว่าผมนี่ถูกสั่งยิงโดย..โดยฟ้า แล้วเขาก็ไม่รู้นะครับว่าข้างบนเขาก็รู้ว่านี่คือข่าวลือที่พวกเขาปล่อยมา แล้วใครปล่อยเขาก็รู้ ปล่อยผ่านพระองค์หนึ่งแถวๆ ยานนาวา พระองค์นั้นท่านก็ฉุนว่าเอาท่านไปเกี่ยวข้องอะไร ท่านก็โทร.ไปรายงานฟ้าเหมือนกันว่าท่านไม่เกี่ยวข้อง แล้วบอกด้วยว่าใครเป็นคนปล่อยข่าวลือ นี่คือความทุกข์ มันปิดไม่มิดหรอก เอามือปิดฟ้าได้ยังไง

Sondhi L – And at the moment there are rumours that someone in the sky ordered the hit on me. And those in a high place don't know whether it is the rumour that they spread. And who spread it they know. It was said it was spread through one monk near the Yawana district, but that monk was angry and denied it. He telephoned me and to someone high up that he was not involved and said who was it that spread this rumour. This is is distressing. It cannot be completely concealed. How can you use your hand to cover up the sky?

Who shot Sondhi?

Bullets came from Lopburri. Lots of people in Lopburri.

Honestly? Who cares, they missed!

[jcbangkok]

Who cares if the photos were shopped or not.

It is more fun to argue if Thaksin is dead or alive.

Who say he is already dead? How many say he is still alive?

The more Thaksin denies being dead ... the more convinced I am he is dead

[lazurus]

BBC's Thai correspondant has just reported, (and I hope I heard right). That the government say they have evidence of a deeper plot, to overthrow the government and undermune the monarchy.

The Suthep propaganda this morning..... Red Shirt Leaders have already sued him for developing fake informations (Webfact)

The debate is going lower and lower....soon we will have all the gossips of massage parlours and brothels.....

Rule of thumb, when the reds start calling something fake you know its the real deal.

[danc]

@ humfurry

And so where in this scholarly debate would that put their brethren 'the poor'? Perhaps several generations behind the middle class?

The poor brethren are streets ahead of them (the middle classes) politically, I would say, even though they are so stupid

[Gippy]

Who cares if the photos were shopped or not.

It is more fun to argue if Thaksin is dead or alive.

Who say he is already dead? How many say he is still alive?

agree, whether they are tailored or not, doesn't matter. I just asked to see them as there was so much fuss going on about them for the last couple of days, and they were described as a very poor photoshop job.

To give a non technical view the wife reckons they are fake because Thaksin looks much fatter on the temple one than the others, even though they were supposed to be taken a few days apart.

I think he is still alive but enjoying the rumours whoever started them. Another one today is that the AP interview with him in Montenegro is fake because somebody is in a short sleeve t-shirt even though it's cold and apparently he is seen in front of a bank that doesn't have any branches in Montenegro anyway.

[lazurus]

Who cares if the photos were shopped or not.

It is more fun to argue if Thaksin is dead or alive.

Who say he is already dead? How many say he is still alive?

My vote is that he has been frozen in Carbonite like Han Solo.

[BNZ]

Who cares if the photos were shopped or not.

It is more fun to argue if Thaksin is dead or alive.

Who say he is already dead? How many say he is still alive?

agree, whether they are tailored or not, doesn't matter. I just asked to see them as there was so much fuss going on about them for the last couple of days, and they were described as a very poor photoshop job.

This recent portrait of another flea circus participant wasn't photoshopped 

[lazurus]

Who cares if the photos were shopped or not.

It is more fun to argue if Thaksin is dead or alive.

Who say he is already dead? How many say he is still alive?

The more Thaksin denies being dead ... the more convinced I am he is dead

Are you implying that there is a Fake Thaksin?

[chantorn]

Who cares if the photos were shopped or not.

It is more fun to argue if Thaksin is dead or alive.

Who say he is already dead? How many say he is still alive?

agree, whether they are tailored or not, doesn't matter. I just asked to see them as there was so much fuss going on about them for the last couple of days, and they were described as a very poor photoshop job.

To give a non technical view the wife reckons they are fake because Thaksin looks much fatter on the temple one than the others, even though they were supposed to be taken a few days apart.

I think he is still alive but enjoying the rumours whoever started them. Another one today is that the AP interview with him in Montenegro is fake because somebody is in a short sleeve t-shirt even though it's cold and apparently he is seen in front of a bank that doesn't have any branches in Montenegro anyway.

The AP interview is fake. Behind the mask is Tom Cruise preview of MI4

[jdinasia]

Thank you for your candid admission to Reds being more violent. It has been visible from the pics and videos for awhile AND certainly noticeable from the Red stages but up until now you have avoided mentioning red violence.

BTW --- Thailand is still not France.

No, you are mistaken. I just state that the Farmers are far more tougher than the average Middle Class. But as people utilising their muscles for heavy jobs, they are less violent for starting a struggle, far more reserved to use their strength, less agressive, in fact more peaceful than the average. However if the provocation is coming they will replicate strongly and I have no doubt about the winners .....

Getting away from poltics but I would suggest you spend some time in rural villages when the lao-khao gets flowing and Im not even being critical of the people but it is a hard physical existance and violence certainly rears its head. Not disimlar to the poor background, in a rich country, that I come form. More violent in all ways than middle class ones.

I spend a lot of time in an issaner village and first, I do not see the Lao khao flowing except in exceptional parties. here it is very poor, and they are not drinking alcohol often. (Nakhon Phanom Area).

But no doubt about the daily physical training utilising the Tic-Tac or working in the fields with basic tools. (including women working in the paddies)

with my in -law family, we drink a little the saturday evening only. Remaining of the week: water.

You spend some time in a village ... you drink weekly on Saturdays ... the rest of your time is in France?

While I do find your story plausible, it is strictly anecdotal about your in-laws and only when you are there with them. The fact that there are many cases of methyl-alcohol poisonings annually and that the statistics of alcohol sales in Thailand is amongst the highest per-capita in the world certainly tells another story.

Lao Khao is CHEAP and kept that way for a reason ...... the reason is the marketplace

[blaze]

This country is on the verge of real chaos, and civil war will produce much more victims than a crack down of the Ratchprasong area !

Better wake up and get your coffee before you open your mouth... You get things really wrong. You need to face the reality in Thailand that a violent crackdown at Rajprasong WILL produce a civil war.

I think you are absolutely correct- it may be that when the first large demos at Rajaprasong occurred, it might have been possible for the authorities to clear the area. But what would have happened- one more strike against the N and NE (self-identified) rural poor. The prai. And no matter how uncomfortable it is to have those angry people demonstrating in Bangkok- were they to return to the provinces- all hel_l would break loose- on a much larger and vindictive scale than what we are currently seeing.

Keep your friends close- and your enemies closer. In that case- the authorities might have chosen the most prudent and intelligent course- hold'em.

Because they might know (or have been led to believe) something that many on this board would rather not: the depth and breadth of frustration and anger in the provinces-

Worst case scenario would be to 'defeat' the Rajaprasong reds... What was Mao's dictum? First the villages, THEN the cities--- and yes, in such a scenario- with armed and angry red gangs/cells whatever dispersed throughout two thirds of the country=- a local population enraged at the capitol- - it would very quickly become Bangkok's problem.

Edited April 27, 2010 by blaze

[bangkoklight]

Maybe Sondhi's on a yacht in the Adriatic with his long lost bum chum Thaksin. Wouldn't that be funny?! If that were true, the Reds would still have a case to fight on, but the Yellows wouldn't. But that probably won't be. And how could those gunmen have missed that final shot?

[blaze]

But back to the article- failed state? Maybe- but anarchy? I don't think so- (some might cynically argue that this is the most organized, disciplined and law abiding 'district' in town. No paying off guards for special priviledges- no sex tapes for sale- no prostitution- and probably very very little violent crime (within the community). And traffic control is a heck of a lot better than it is on my street where nobody seems to understand the meaning of the term 'one way'- including, it seems, the police.

No- anarchy is the wrong word- but incipient civil war- well- maybe that's not too far of a semantic stretch.

[jcbangkok]

[retarius]

Does anyone else (apart from the current governement) think that Aung San Suu Kyi is on Thaksins payroll?

http://www.dvb.no/news/suu-kyi-wades-into-...and-crisis/8738

Burma opposition leader Aung San Suu Kyi has drawn the ire of Thai politicians after claiming that the country’s instability resulted from a constitution that was drawn up by the military.

She reportedly told lawyer Nyan Win that Burma “need not look very far” to see that “a new government coming to power under a constitution drawn up by the military will never be stable,” according to AFP.

“We just see Thailand. [Former prime minister] Thaksin was an elected person. The military seized the power from an elected person. The constitution was drawn up by the military.”

“After that, what happened with the first [government]? It was not stable,” she said of the short-lived administration that followed the coup. “This was a result of the constitution being written by the military.”

Suu Kyi’s comments have angered the upper echelons of the Thai government, whose grip on power is now looking tenuous.

Thai news agency Matichon quoted a Thai senator as saying that he was “so very disappointed” with the comments “because Mrs Aung San Suu Kyi should understand Thailand better”.

He also reportedly demanded that an “audit of the financial path” to Suu Kyi be made public to see whether she had “received support from anyone,” likely a reference to Thaksin.

I guess the yellow shirt view is that Aung San Suu Kyi is on the redshirts payroll...she might have gone further and told the world that criticism of the document was made illegal before the vote....what a shame that she is undercutting the predominant yellow lie on here that Abhisit's government is legitimate...

I am keeping track of the international press and Abhisit isn't getting a good rap, and his constant talk about terrorists only draws derisory guffs as it is printed in quotation marks to highlight the nonsense that it is....the sympathies are with the ones killed by the army on April 10th and the plucky few who are prepared to put themselves in harm's way to have a chance to vote...

[brahmburgers]

In summary it is the view of many that : The Nation and TAN and ASTV are now basically all the same, pure Yellow. Can you expect anything even remotely neutral from them ? Perhaps once in a blue moon as a diversionary tactic perhaps ? This opinion article is pure Yellow nonsense, thats my opinion of it.

Ok, we get your drift. You're upset because the Nation appears to takes sides against your boys, the Reds. It bothers you, and you think of all sorts of reasons why the Nation writers think that way. We get it. Ok, can we go on from there?

I and millions of Thais happen to agree with the Nation, so that should make you even more frustrated, particularly when you try to gauge the myriad reason that why many people disagree with your opinions. Fact remains: A relatively small group of rowdies is causing major problems for Bangkok and Thailand. Much of their activities are illegal, despite their earlier claims of having a peaceful demonstration.

The Reds are making themselves angry because the politician they like got shoved out of office. We get it. Now they're prolonging their messy demonstration for various reasons, not least because;

>>>> the man they like is still paying them

>>>> many demonstrators cannot leave. They're bullied (told they can't leave) and they're denied the return of their confiscated ID cards

>>>> They hope their man will come back to power because they'll get more money when that happens.

>>>> Oh, and there's been some talk of democracy, but individually, the demonstrators don't know much about democracy (nearly all have probably been paid for their votes in the past), and their movement doesn't do anything democratically.

Solution: Go home. Learn what democracy really is. What a real campaign is, what constitutes a fair polling booth. And try to learn that elections are the best ways to affect change. If a group of people aren't content, then they can grudgingly support the current elected officials, while gearing up for the next election.

[jamieson]

Thaksin ordered killing of thousands of innocent people yet never got prosecuted for it. Does this give Abhisit automatic right to kill all the redshirted protesters? Afterall Thaksin did it.

How stupid can this "double standard" discussion get?

Thaksin ordered the killing of these people who were believed to be drug runners. It has nothing to do with what's happening now. Why bring this into the debate?

"thaksin ordered the killing of thousands of innocent people..."??????????????

is there an archive where we can research on this killings???????????

"thousands ", eh?

and, "all innocents" , too

holy toledo, oh jesus, oh budhha, oh-my-god!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

where is the the records, photographs, evidence, wwitnesses,etc.etc.

Ongoing Impunity from Thaksin's War on Drugs

In August 2007 the government appointed a special committee chaired by former Attorney General Khanit na Nakhon, to investigate approximately 2,500 extrajudicial killings that took place in 2003 as part of Thaksin's "war on drugs." Nevertheless, it remains unclear whether the new investigations will lead to effective criminal prosecution of the perpetrators, who are believed to include senior police officers and members of the former Thaksin administration.

There are tons of news articles, picture and videos all over the net for anyone who wants to be better informed.

unable to watch this youtube.

anyone knows how?

[jdinasia]

Maybe Sondhi's on a yacht in the Adriatic with his long lost bum chum Thaksin. Wouldn't that be funny?! If that were true, the Reds would still have a case to fight on, but the Yellows wouldn't. But that probably won't be. And how could those gunmen have missed that final shot?

A professional assassin would only need 1 bullet to finish Sondhi off.

It could either be a complete bunch of idiots who never had firearms in their hands hired to do the job, or a part of a Theatre performance.

Theatre performance/ Complete with cranial surgery!

You guys are amazing ... this is one of those Tin-Hat things that I just don't get!

[jamieson]

Thank you for your candid admission to Reds being more violent. It has been visible from the pics and videos for awhile AND certainly noticeable from the Red stages but up until now you have avoided mentioning red violence.

BTW --- Thailand is still not France.

No, you are mistaken. I just state that the Farmers are far more tougher than the average Middle Class. But as people utilising their muscles for heavy jobs, they are less violent for starting a struggle, far more reserved to use their strength, less agressive, in fact more peaceful than the average. However if the provocation is coming they will replicate strongly and I have no doubt about the winners .....

Beyond a bad back not sure where they would be getting so much strength unless it is lifting all that Thai whiskey in the months they spend not farming. Remember the elite middle class can all afford gyms and personal trainers to sculpt their bodies and of course the best.

But seriously ... when is the fight between the middle class and the poor coming? Right now it is about largely thugs and terrorists who will be going up against a military.

PS. everybody is non-violent until they are.

a

aren't people who frequent gyms a bit "if===y"? you know what i mean.

for those with personal trainers, aren't those people even more "if---y"?

check it at the dj station.

[landofthefree]

Wow..another gem of objective reporting. Red thugs terrorizing law abiding citizens almost nation wide no less.

It was just a few short weeks ago when all the self proclaimed experts were predicting that the UDD protest was a "total failure"

They are not getting the numbers....they will run off home when the sticky rice runs out...or when the police crack down on them blah blah blah

Now we are told they are bringing the whole country to its knees....how did this remarkable transition happen?

I see crowds of reds almost daily (outside Bankok) and have never been threatened or felt in any danger. Of course if you just hate flag waving

mulam music and the smell of fermented fish.....you would probably feel terrorized. Good job Nation....nothing like the unbiased truth in journalism.

Great piece of journalism the Nation, that the unintelligent yellow bigots on Thai will lap up. Shame the rest of the world's press doesnt agree with it but obviously the Yellows are right and everyone else is wrong.

[gemini81]

But back to the article- failed state? Maybe- but anarchy? I don't think so- (some might cynically argue that this is the most organized, disciplined and law abiding 'district' in town. No paying off guards for special priviledges- no sex tapes for sale- no prostitution- and probably very very little violent crime (within the community). And traffic control is a heck of a lot better than it is on my street where nobody seems to understand the meaning of the term 'one way'- including, it seems, the police.

No- anarchy is the wrong word- but incipient civil war- well- maybe that's not too far of a semantic stretch.

well so far, have the rednecks, or have they not, gotten away with anything and everything? (and a 15 day jail sentence is a joke!) it gets worse by the day as they test the waters.

Bottom line is, there is no new election. They made their point, it failed, so why not just go home and wait for the next election?

When they can stack tires all over the BTS, stop soldiers, and stop police, then there is no real enforcement of law or peace. Thats taking steps toward the direction of anarchy and mayhem, sure.