Red-Shirt Leaders To Spell Out Conditions In Joining Peace Process

[jdinasia]

Some of you are really putting a spin on this. Abhisit says the election will be on the 14th. How can he say that when the election date is not up to him? To dissolve parliament IS up to him and he refuses to give a date. WHY?

The EC formally sets the date. Not the PM. Usually the EC rubberstamps the date BUT they do verify the dates coincide with the law of the land. That is part of their duties. To keep people from manipulating the electoral process. Sadly you have people like Arisaman raiding the EC ........

edit ---

So he will obviously set a date in the designated time period after consulting with the EC. There is work to be done first. Like getting the illegal violent mob out of BKK and seeing that candidates are not interfered with and getting the budget done AND most importantly getting the charter reform done. If he set a date now and the charter reform required a different date ... people would cry foul.

Edited May 9, 2010 by jdinasia

[thailien8]

Some of you are really putting a spin on this. Abhisit says the election will be on the 14th. How can he say that when the election date is not up to him? To dissolve parliament IS up to him and he refuses to give a date. WHY?

The EC formally sets the date. Not the PM. Usually the EC rubber-stamps the date BUT they do verify the dates coincide with the law of the land. That is part of their duties. To keep people from manipulating the electoral process. Sadly you have people like Arisaman raiding the EC ........

edit ---

So he will obviously set a date in the designated time period after consulting with the EC. There is work to be done first. Like getting the illegal violent mob out of BKK and seeing that candidates are not interfered with and getting the budget done AND most importantly getting the charter reform done. If he set a date now and the charter reform required a different date ... people would cry foul.

Are these legal technicalities about setting precise dates really just more basic face-saving by the face-obsessed Thais? UDD's big, original, continuing demand was/is for a firm Parliament dissolution date, so Abhisit's proclaiming such a date could lose face. Abhisit offered an election date instead, leaving UDD to work out the possible date(s) for legally-required dissolution. UDD could use this opportunity to enlighten us further on this legal technicality when (if) they ever get it together to present their own road map.

With two road maps on the table, sane negotiations could prove fruitful.

Sadly, the red reinforcements that kept on truckin' into beleaguered Bangkok on Saturday, show that Thaksin still has enough wealth to continue financing his red troubles here in our capital city for our foreseeable future. Remember Thaksin-in-self-exile's motto: "No Justice, No Peace"

We "farangs" who lived thru all of Thaksin's reign of terror, while trying to keep smiling as Thailand became his family corporation, remember Thaksin's concept of "justice", which was rooted in the double standards that he supposedly now deplores. Thaksin, his relatives, and friends were first in line. His formerly engorged nipples of money leaked just enough to keep useful followers happy, while the Isaan peasants survived on loans and promises.

Thaksin's justice was relative, collegial, familial, regional. He promised to prioritize government help, depending on which provinces voted for TRT.

[jdinasia]

No, the current mess is just he red leaders stalling for a deal that they won't get.

[ChiangMaiFun]

What's wrong with giving a date for the dissolution of parliament? Is the puppet, Abhisit, falling back in line and obeying his masters? He gave a date for the election but he is NOT authorized to set that date. Is he speaking with forked tongue? I wouldn't trust him either without him giving the requested and promised date.

The reason, at least for me, is quite obvious. When the date comes, he will be able to say "I never said I would dissolve parliament today" and just keep going without holding elections on November 14th. That's the only reason I can think of. I can see no other reason as to why he's basically saying to the media "I won't tell you the date because you can calculate it yourself".

a can of worms... he's playing a game OR he's simply winding up the reds for no good reason (highly unlikely) - this is not the time for all this cr*p - just tell us the dates and end it.

[lazurus]

If anyone in the future is successful in suing the UDD (or the PAD for that matter) for damage to Bkk infrastructure will there be any funds to meet the costs or is all their money invisible?

Are people being searched for weapons as they leave the Rachaprasong area or is that an infringement of human rights?

Are either of these linked to the red-shirts' delay in ending the rally?

By the way, was there any evidence of armed gunmen in the yellow crowds either during 2008 or more recently? If there had been, could they be held responsible? Similarly, just because the armed gunmen this time were videoed in the redshirt area, surely that can't mean that the redshirt leaders could be found guilty of anything?

Why can't the redshirts TV channel be reopened and a fresh start given to the owners - two warnings and then shutdown in the case of incitement to violence or hatred. Otherwise leave it open.

The Thais are a remarkably independent people and their natural course of action may often be to break a rule if it appears to cause no harm to anyone eg road traffic infringements when the road is empty. I hope that this good-natured trait will always be there. Education can be in part about informing people of the dangers when this degenerates into breaking rules where other people are harmed by injustice, as in the case of corruption, (funding not reaching the intended usually worthy targets), not allowing people to make up their own minds about things but "vote how I tell you"

People are searched all the time at the rally site, by red guards, and yes that is a violation of their human rights.

If you think the red tv station is going to stop inciting violence and hatred you are naive, that's its only function.

By staying at the protest site under the protection of armed guards the red leaders are giving their approval for such behavior. If you hire a hitman to commit murder, but you do not personally handle the weapon are you not also guilty of a crime? Similarly the red leaders can't absolve themselves of responsibility for the armed men in their midst.

[lazurus]

Red leadership wants to leave but cant as they have to pay protesters the other half of the cash when they go home. 5,000 new protesters fro K.K are just coming back to get paid.

They dont want amnesty from government - they want Govt protection from protesters they short changed.

Next the red leaders will want the government to pay the protesters so they can pocket the money Thaksin sent them.

[Tigs]

Cabinet to Meet at Government House Tomorrow

The Abhisit administration has announced its intention to move its weekly Cabinet meeting back to the Government House after using the 11th Infantry Regiment facilities during the political unrest.

Tomorrow's meeting with be the first Cabinet meeting to be held at the Government House since red shirt protesters started their mass demonstrations in Bangkok on March 12.

What a clever move! Either the Reds will react and send people to block Government house, thereby reducing numbers and facilitating a dispersal by troops, or the troops will be ordered to do nothing and the world media will capture the fact that the reds have no interest in either peace or the road map. If the reds do nothing then Jutaporn and his rogue General will have a cardiac. Either way, smart move Abhisit.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

We "farangs" who lived thru all of Thaksin's reign of terror, while trying to keep smiling as Thailand became his family corporation, remember Thaksin's concept of "justice", which was rooted in the double standards that he supposedly now deplores.

LOL!! Please speak for yourself. Oh wait... early bar closings = terror aimed at Farangs.. Right.

[whybother]

From article in daily rally updates:

The key Red Shirt leader said the deaths of people was very serious and was important for the Reds. Until now no one has taken responsibility for that incident which have seen may deaths and hundreds injured.

Maybe the red leaders should be standing up and taking the responsibility for having armed men amongst the protestors causing many of the deaths and injuries.

[Robby nz]

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Bangkok-Red-...nd-t363547.html

Read it and weep as they say, or laught for you red supporters.

Seems they have no intention of going, "we will leave on Monday" another lie detected.

And 2 more bombings last night, Dont even you reds on here think its getting a bit much.

[lazurus]

Some red posters have complained that the Election Commission is the one to set the date of the election and not the PM thus they want a date for dissolution. Why is it then that the red leaders want the PM to guarantee them immediate bail when they turn themselves in when it is up to the police and the courts to issue bail and not the PM?

I would think that the red leaders might follow the example of their hero Thaksin and as such are considerable flight risks. Some are already out on bail and have continued to violate the law. I think the courts and the police should consider their actions over the past two months before unleashing them back into society. Should people leading an organization that could be charged with murdering police be eligible for bail? Thai people will all be much safer with them locked up. They have a history of resisting arrest and fleeing from police. In what other country would bail even be a consideration for them?

[pedro01]

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Bangkok-Red-...nd-t363547.html

Read it and weep as they say, or laught for you red supporters.

Seems they have no intention of going, "we will leave on Monday" another lie detected.

And 2 more bombings last night, Dont even you reds on here think its getting a bit much.

Hardly a shock - now it's all about the red leaders covering their asses. The offer by Abhisit will be retracted after more protests and dispersal will be back on the table.

These guys cannot expect immediate bail. They all have questions to answer.

[pedro01]

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Bangkok-Red-...nd-t363547.html

Read it and weep as they say, or laught for you red supporters.

Seems they have no intention of going, "we will leave on Monday" another lie detected.

And 2 more bombings last night, Dont even you reds on here think its getting a bit much.

Hardly a shock - now it's all about the red leaders covering their asses. The offer by Abhisit will be retracted after more protests and dispersal will be back on the table.

These guys cannot expect immediate bail. They all have questions to answer.

[Old Man River]

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Bangkok-Red-...nd-t363547.html

Read it and weep as they say, or laught for you red supporters.

Seems they have no intention of going, "we will leave on Monday" another lie detected.

And 2 more bombings last night, Dont even you reds on here think its getting a bit much.

One way or another it will be over soon by this weekend.

If the Reds accept Abhisit's road map, they will be gone by this weekend. If they don't accept, Abhisit will have to disperse them by this weekend. Schools re-open next week and Abhisit does not want little school children running around while the Reds take target practice with their M79 grenades.

Changes are already occurring. There is an armed military presence spread out in CBD that wasn't there Friday. They are watching the main canals and roads for Red reinforcements in case the Reds do not accept Abhisit's road map. Stay safe. This week will be very tense.

[chantorn]

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Bangkok-Red-...nd-t363547.html

Read it and weep as they say, or laught for you red supporters.

Seems they have no intention of going, "we will leave on Monday" another lie detected.

And 2 more bombings last night, Dont even you reds on here think its getting a bit much.

Which Monday?

[lazurus]

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Bangkok-Red-...nd-t363547.html

Read it and weep as they say, or laught for you red supporters.

Seems they have no intention of going, "we will leave on Monday" another lie detected.

And 2 more bombings last night, Dont even you reds on here think its getting a bit much.

Which Monday?

How can you tell if a red leader is lying? His lips are moving.

[Who, me ?]

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Bangkok-Red-...nd-t363547.html

Read it and weep as they say, or laught for you red supporters.

Seems they have no intention of going, "we will leave on Monday" another lie detected.

And 2 more bombings last night, Dont even you reds on here think its getting a bit much.

Which Monday?

How can you tell if a red leader is lying? His lips are moving.

Oh no......Not this old joke again..........

[earthpig]

a general amnesty as applicabable to abhisit and his people as it is to the reds is essential.

without it, the opposition leadership will be rounded up and the elections will be a farce. no fair election can occur in an enviroment in which the opposition is being arrested.

moreover, attempts to round up red leaders may foment violence against the government, creating an opportunity--or indeed even the necessity--for the government to call off the elections.

surely abhisit knows all this well enough. if he is sincere in his peace overtures, he will give blanket amnesty.

on the other hand, he may not be sincere and it is at least theoretically possible that his peace overtures area a ploy to crack down.

after all the missed deadlines and threats, the moment of truth may have arrived. it finally looks this is the week we find out whether the resolution to thailand's social ills is political, or other.

abhisit has to date shown wisdom enough. lets hope it doesnt fail him now.

[Jingthing]

Reds would want a general amnesty as their leadership is a nest of criminals. Nice try. It ain't going to happen. Let them defend themselves in court.

[elcent]

a general amnesty as applicabable to abhisit and his people as it is to the reds is essential.

without it, the opposition leadership will be rounded up and the elections will be a farce. no fair election can occur in an enviroment in which the opposition is being arrested.

moreover, attempts to round up red leaders may foment violence against the government, creating an opportunity--or indeed even the necessity--for the government to call off the elections.

surely abhisit knows all this well enough. if he is sincere in his peace overtures, he will give blanket amnesty.

on the other hand, he may not be sincere and it is at least theoretically possible that his peace overtures area a ploy to crack down.

after all the missed deadlines and threats, the moment of truth may have arrived. it finally looks this is the week we find out whether the resolution to thailand's social ills is political, or other.

abhisit has to date shown wisdom enough. lets hope it doesnt fail him now.

huh? they're going to arrest the opposition party? Why would they need an amnesty, they are not on the list yet.

Or are you suggesting that the opposition parties are the head of the terror?

well then, thank you for the enlightenment ...

[jdinasia]

Only 2 MP's from PTP have been summoned by CRES that I know of, and only one of those 2 has a warrant out for him (Jatuporn). Jatuporn has immunity until parliament is dissolved.

Edit --- the leaders of the redshirts have promised to turn themselves in on May 15th (I assume earthpig knows this) so "rounding them up" isn't an issue is it? Or does he mean that the red leaders have lied again?

Most should be able to get bail, but there are a few that will probably NOT be eligible for bail because they have committed new crimes whilst on bail for other charges.

Edited May 10, 2010 by jdinasia

[earthpig]

Reds would want a general amnesty as their leadership is a nest of criminals.

So was Gandhi and Martin Luther King. That what happens in political protests cum revolts. People break the law to gain what they perceive to be social justice. You are free to not agree with the Red aims. But what the reds are doing hardly makes them common criminals; these people are not pick pockets.

This is a political problem and the best way forward at this stage is an amnesty in order to bring resolution of this matter to the only place where it can be resolved, the ballot box.

and one should consider: if no amnesty, then what?

what many posters who are anti amnesty really want is a blood bath.

[lannarebirth]

Discuss.

THE NATION: @ktnews: Seh Daeng: I've talked to Thaksin. Rally will go on with "2nd generation leaders" named -Kwanchai, Arisman, Suporn, Vaipoj

THE NATION: Seh Daeng to red leaders: "If u want to leave, leave. We don't care."

[Jingthing]

Reds would want a general amnesty as their leadership is a nest of criminals.

So was Gandhi and Martin Luther King. That what happens in political protests cum revolts. People break the law to gain what they perceive to be social justice. You are free to not agree with the Red aims. But what the reds are doing hardly makes them common criminals; these people are not pick pockets.

This is a political problem and the best way forward at this stage is an amnesty in order to bring resolution of this matter to the only place where it can be resolved, the ballot box.

and one should consider: if no amnesty, then what?

what many posters who are anti amnesty really want is a blood bath.

Don't you DARE compare the red shirt leaders to Martin Luther King! They have absolutely NOTHING in common. Edited May 10, 2010 by Jingthing

[Old Man River]

a general amnesty as applicabable to abhisit and his people as it is to the reds is essential.

without it, the opposition leadership will be rounded up and the elections will be a farce. no fair election can occur in an enviroment in which the opposition is being arrested.

For the record, the vast majority of the Reds' leaders that you see on stage are not politicians (Jatuporn is). While the PTP leaders support what is going on in Bangkok, they have kept their distance and for the most part and are not subject to arrest. They can move on and contend in the election.

However, to be a free and fair election both sides should have the same rights. This has not been the case when the Democrats have tried to campaign in the north and northeast. From your comments you seem to forget this and think it is all one sided. It isn't.

[siampolee]

Seha Daeng said all redshirts leaders except Jatuporn didn't want to continue fighting. "They're out of their minds." #NNA

"They're out of their minds." Seha Daeng

Pot. Kettle Black !!!

Edited May 10, 2010 by siampolee

[earthpig]

Don't you DARE compare the red shirt leaders to Martin Luther King! They have absolutely NOTHING in common.

both, with gandhi, use nonviolence and inflict economic pain on elites to further their political/social goals.

in light of these facts, the contention that they have "nothing" in common shows that you "dare" to raise ignorance to iconic levels.

[Jingthing]

The red movement is a rabidly VIOLENT movement. MLK was a champion of NON-VIOLENCE. Again, don't you dare bring MLK into your red propaganda. He would want nothing to do with the those violent thugs.

Nonviolence is the answer to the crucial political and moral questions of our time; the need for mankind to overcome oppression and violence without resorting to oppression and violence. Mankind must evolve for all human conflict a method which rejects revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method is love.

Martin Luther King Jr., December 11, 1964

[elcent]

Discuss.

THE NATION: @ktnews: Seh Daeng: I've talked to Thaksin. Rally will go on with "2nd generation leaders" named -Kwanchai, Arisman, Suporn, Vaipoj

THE NATION: Seh Daeng to red leaders: "If u want to leave, leave. We don't care."

Thaksin should be sought by an international arrest warrant now. It is crystal clear of who is behind the terror and destruction. Nero Thaksin is now the biggest threat to SE-Asia and not only to Thailand.

[jdinasia]

Don't you DARE compare the red shirt leaders to Martin Luther King! They have absolutely NOTHING in common.

both, with gandhi, use nonviolence and inflict economic pain on elites to further their political/social goals.

in light of these facts, the contention that they have "nothing" in common shows that you "dare" to raise ignorance to iconic levels.

All the red leaders in question have called for the use of violence. You state that violence is a red option.

Ghandi and MLK Jr disavowed the use of violence. The red movement has ALWAYS been about violence and the threat of violence.

You tarnish the memories of some great people by comparing the red leadership to them. It is offensive though sadly I do not think it is against the rules.