On another thread I kept coming to the conclusion that I was saying the wrong things. I wasn’t getting my meaning across.

Someone would say I was bragging. No, that’s not it. I’d be accused of all sorts of things that were incorrect. I don’t want to tell anyone about my sex life.

I was trying to figure out how to explain my motives because no one, at least almost no one enjoys continually being called or thought of as a dirty old man.

It has to do with retirement and sexual security. I think it may be a totally male concept. But, not being a woman I don’t know. I have the feeling women get cats instead of sexual security. I have thought about trying cats but I’m not quite there yet.

I don’t know if this is a reflection on western women of late or it has always been this way. Watching my mother and father age I have a feeling it has been this way for at least the last hundred years and reading Kipling maybe a lot longer.

Perhaps you think this is not important to discuss. I think it is the major reason men come to Thailand to retire. And that is certainly worth discussing as it is a major industry worth billions.

Sexual security is not the same as being a lecher. It’s not even close to the same thing. It has nothing to do with go go bars, beer bars or prostitution. So everyone can breath a sigh of relief. Nor does it have anything to do with weird techniques or alternative lifestyles or any other counter culture deviations.

A wise man when discovering a particular commodity is necessary for the proper function of something usually carries a spare. A spare tire or spare oxygen cylinder or a spare parachute.

I don’t care how expensive or darn good your parachute is, it still makes sense to have a reserve chute.

Sex is important to most men, some may say even the most important thing after air, water and food. Sex can mean a lot of different things. As simple as sleeping companion or as complicated as the playboy mansion but nevertheless it is still sex. The difference between sleeping with a dog, cat or person is sex. Sleeping with someone as opposed to sleeping alone provides a wealth of benefits. Some of those things like security or warmth may also be provided by a dog but a person brings sex into the equation. I am not necessarily talking about intercourse. I like to sleep with a woman. I have been sleeping with a woman since I left my parents home. In addition to something I like it is also a lifelong habit.

My first attempt at sexual security was marriage. It didn’t work the first time but I gave it two more trials before I realized the definition of insanity was doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

As I got older I realized that my attempts at sexual security were becoming more expensive and more difficult.

I had lived in South East Asia as a young man and thought with my brief understanding of the culture I would give it a try as I became older.

I am a man. I have found sexual security in Thailand. I believe the conditions that allow this will continue for some time. I actively resist efforts to change the status quo by NGO’s, individuals and social movements.

Now do you understand? I am not the devil. I don’t want to brag about my sexual prowess or complain about my lack of it. I don’t want to constantly talk about bar girls or good girls or seduction techniques.

People used to go to the desert if they had lung problems. Now men go to Thailand if they have sexual security problems. It is not a matter of choice. It is a matter of life and death. That’s why there are so many members of the Pattaya flying club. There are a significant number of people who would rather be dead than not have sexual security.

Men don’t get married to have children and a nice little house and in laws. Men get married to have sexual security.

Why Thailand? Because women go to both Pattaya and Las Vegas. Women don’t go to Vegas to find a guy and take him back to Cheboygan.

If everyone didn’t know it men are dumb. They are constantly looking for a woman with a heart of gold. In Vegas nobody plays the game anymore. I don’t know if they ever did. In Thailand everyone is still playing the game.

When the poor dumb guy realizes his latest does not really have a heart of gold it is not the end of the world in Thailand. There are millions more who are still playing the game. See? Sexual security.

Of course I know it is never going to work! Gambling casinos and the lottery are still two of the best investments in the world. Everybody knows the house is always going to win!

Here's an alternative thought. It's not animosity and it's not misunderstanding - it's lack of interest. Whilst your preoccupation with 'sexual security' might be very important to you to others it's just mind numbingly boring.

Some people are monks. Sure I can see that. Some people are nuns. Sure I can see that too. And there are people on the opposite end of the spectrum like sex tourists and I can see that too. I can also see that men who have sexual security would not be concerned about it. If you are young, rich, handsome and a well spoken I doubt if you are concerned about sexual security. I also doubt most men migrating to Thailand are young, rich, handsome and well spoken.

I was sitting in the red carpet lounge in the San Francisco airport with a stock ticker, private phone and a secretary at my elbow while I sipped on a Jack on the rocks with a twist waiting for my flight, one day a long time ago. I looked around and with a premonition, reminded myself, “boy if you loose this gig it’s going to be a long way down.” It was.

My point is that most men living in Thailand are in the middle, looking for sexual security as opposed to looking for celibacy or debauchery.

Women don’t come to Thailand looking for sexual security because it is not available for them here unless they are lesbians. And then I’m not real sure because I don’t know that many lesbians in Thailand.

I also don’t know if women even care about sexual security. It may be so readily available that security is not an issue or they may just not ever think about it.

I think women care more about financial and physical and emotional security for their family and selves far more than sexual security. But I don’t really know.

Edit. I forgot about the Bali beach boys but I don't really don't know much about that whole scene so I will not speak to that issue. If some women would like to fine. But I am out of my depth discussing it. I have been in a lot of Thai places catering to women but have seen very few Western women there and when I did they seemed much more interested in dancing and partying than looking for a long term relationship.

I understand exactly what you are talking about, Mark. Most of the married men I know that are over the age of 50 DO complain about the lack of sex at home. If they WERE happy they wouldn't be complaining about it or watching the porno sites on the internet. A recent study showed that many married men would rather watch porno than make love to their wife. And, I still say that anyone who tells me they would rather make love to someone old, fat and ugly, rather than someone, young, fit and attractive is either a liar or weird. That goes equally for men and women. A man can have what he wants in Thailand for relatively little money. Maybe I'm spoiled, but I don't even LOOK at women in Canada anymore in a sexual manner. And, I love all women providing they are interesting people. I've got lots of platonic lady friends in North America and around the globe.

I thank Thailand every day for how it has improved my life. I walk around with confidence and a feeling like I own the joint. And, that extends to my living in Canada where I'm celibate for 7 months of the year. I know what I have waiting for me whenever I decide to return to Thailand, and that is a nice feeling of security. It certainly has kept me relatively young and fit in mind and body.

And, when and if there is no gas left in the tank I can sit in my rocking chair with a big grin on my face, and listen to my grandkids asking for me to tell them a story. And, they are already doing that.

I understand what you're saying, Mark.....and I think there is a paradox in your view;

Men get married so that they can have sex, and therein lies the problem. Entering into marriage so as to have sex. If sex was a bonus within marriage/partnership/hooking up, and the marriage/partnership was actually based on mutual compatability/friendship not based on sex or with sex as a proviso, then perhaps the marriage would be more enduring and you would be having sex with your wife until your libido wanes.

I like sex. I much prefer love-making....it's a better experience.

I can have sex with any woman that will have me.....but I could never make love with a prostitute. I'm not sure that a woman who loves me/puts out for me just for my material wealth is any different to a prostitute.

Before your hackles raise let me clarify that in this context, "prostitute" is said in a down to earth, realistic sense with no negative connotation.

My idealistic view is tempered with an opinion that what you are talking about is not actually "sexual security".....I suspect that you are actually talking about sexual variety, (and I include myself here) many men get bored with the one partner. I suspect that there is a primordial urge to procreate with as many woman as possible......you said it yourself; there is an attraction to a place where there is a pool of millions of vaginas to choose from, and one can dive into that pool whenever the vagina you have, for whatever reason, goes sour.

You can make it look more respectable by saying it's sexual security. The lech and the sexual tourist just make the changes quicker.

There's also another aspect too that has nothing to do with "sexual security"....(and again, I do not hold myself above it); Male dominance. The modern Western marriage is based on equality. A man can make no demands and have very few expectations. In a situation where the man has simply chosen a walking vagina from the Asian pool, there is probably a (perhaps subconscious) feeling of superiority or at least an attitude of "I am paying for our house/food/excursions/etc, so she has to put out", and there is a chance that she (perhaps not subconsciously) agrees.

Is it really important to you for people to "understand" what you do & why? Are you not able to just live your life as you see fit & not worry or care what others think or why they do what they do. I really honestly just don't get it. Is it a need for acceptance? permission? validation?.

I understand exactly what you are talking about, Mark. Most of the married men I know that are over the age of 50 DO complain about the lack of sex at home. If they WERE happy they wouldn't be complaining about it or watching the porno sites on the internet. A recent study showed that many married men would rather watch porno than make love to their wife. And, I still say that anyone who tells me they would rather make love to someone old, fat and ugly, rather than someone, young, fit and attractive is either a liar or weird. That goes equally for men and women. A man can have what he wants in Thailand for relatively little money. Maybe I'm spoiled, but I don't even LOOK at women in Canada anymore in a sexual manner. And, I love all women providing they are interesting people. I've got lots of platonic lady friends in North America and around the globe.

I thank Thailand every day for how it has improved my life. I walk around with confidence and a feeling like I own the joint. And, that extends to my living in Canada where I'm celibate for 7 months of the year. I know what I have waiting for me whenever I decide to return to Thailand, and that is a nice feeling of security. It certainly has kept me relatively young and fit in mind and body.

And, when and if there is no gas left in the tank I can sit in my rocking chair with a big grin on my face, and listen to my grandkids asking for me to tell them a story. And, they are already doing that.

So you're saying that you gain confidence, youth and fitness and a feeling that you own the joint because you can get a cheap shag in Thailand?

I dunno, but having seen OP bring up the issue of prostitution in Thailand in nearly every post I've seen by him, I have the feeling that some kind of obsession is operative.

In any case, the kind of security being discussed sounds like an obsession with predictability and control, which doesn't usually lead to real relationships or connections with other people. However, such obsessions can be among the reasons that persons who are no longer able to maintain real relationships with others turn to commercialisation of relationships in various contexts.

So you're saying that you gain confidence, youth and fitness and a feeling that you own the joint because you can get a cheap shag in Thailand?

In a way, yes. When you take sex out of the picture it's much easier to respond to women on a friendly basis. You can't be manipulated by coy invitations hoping to ensnare you. And, that is true whether the gal is a hooker or some prudish old maid who wants a husband. You can be up front, discuss anything and act like the woman is no different than any other friend... male or female. My platonic lady friends all know what I enjoy and why I act like I do. When I ask them out to supper, or go somewhere that we mutually enjoy, they understand that there is no hidden agenda of trying to get them into bed. They know they can stay at my home rather than pay for a hotel if they are in the neighbourhood. And, the husbands of the married women know that they can trust me.

Like Harcourt, I also prefer making love as compared to just having sex. But, where we might differ is in who we are with. If the woman is not enjoying herself then I'm not either. It takes a while to narrow the group down to those that do enjoy my company and what we do together. I'm lucky that I have several very good lady friends. If they were to get married it would take time to find a replacement.... Same as it would if you suddenly found yourself single again... for whatever reason.

I dunno, but having seen OP bring up the issue of prostitution in Thailand in nearly every post I've seen by him, I have the feeling that some kind of obsession is operative.

In any case, the kind of security being discussed sounds like an obsession with predictability and control, which doesn't usually lead to real relationships or connections with other people. However, such obsessions can be among the reasons that persons who are no longer able to maintain real relationships with others turn to commercialisation of relationships in various contexts.

Sex can be bought anywhere in the world, sure the prices differ but it's there if you look.

Sounds like the OP wants a little piece of the mind along with the body, that's where the "security" comes in.

Not another marky conquest thread is it?

I only read up to the 3rd post. Sorry..its just not a topic that holds my attention. If that makes someone presume thats because im not interested in sex..or am more interested in cats..or whatever..well haha...so be it.

But i have to say..im sorry mark..your comment here tickled my funny bone:

Women don’t come to Thailand looking for sexual security because it is not available for them here unless they are lesbians. And then I’m not real sure because I don’t know that many lesbians in Thailand.

I find it really bizarre how quite a few Western men have very insular views when it comes to women and their sex lives in Thailand.

I never doubted that the straight girls on this forum were getting plenty...

I dunno, but having seen OP bring up the issue of prostitution in Thailand in nearly every post I've seen by him, I have the feeling that some kind of obsession is operative.

In any case, the kind of security being discussed sounds like an obsession with predictability and control, which doesn't usually lead to real relationships or connections with other people. However, such obsessions can be among the reasons that persons who are no longer able to maintain real relationships with others turn to commercialisation of relationships in various contexts.

That is exactly what I was not writing about. That is the reason I started the thread. It is not about prostitution.

The whole thread was an explanation of the real reason men retire to Thailand and it is not prostitution.

It seems like the world is against me in this particular topic.

I’ll try to make it clearer.

To some extent you have to throw out your traditional beliefs about prostitution as they don’t apply in Thailand.

You have to become a little bit Thai to live realistically in Thailand.

When an older unattractive Thai man marries a younger Thai woman it is not prostitution.

When an older unattractive western man marries a younger Thai woman it is not prostitution.

My point is why the older unattractive man comes to Thailand and marries a younger Thai woman.

It is not about lechery it is about sexual security. When the marriage goes on the rocks there is another marriage readily waiting in the wings.

The Thai laws are such that a man can survive many such marriages if he is prudent.

Maybe you won’t believe me but I am a nice guy. I don’t radically change once I get married.

I got married three times in the west. All three times the women married me to change me. I was like a piece of clay that they thought had possibilities.

<deleted>!

News flash for the world. I am the same guy now. I still like guitars that are tuned good and firm feeling women.

Like I said in my OP, “Sexual security is not the same as being a lecher. It’s not even close to the same thing. It has nothing to do with go go bars, beer bars or prostitution. So everyone can breath a sigh of relief. Nor does it have anything to do with weird techniques or alternative lifestyles or any other counter culture deviations. “

I don’t know how much clearer I can be.

I've been to Hollywood

I've been to Redwood

I crossed the ocean for a heart of gold

I've been in my mind

It's such a fine line

That keeps me searchin' for a heart of gold

And I'm gettin' old

But I keep running into women who are singing

I've been taking on a new direction

But i have to say

I've been thinking about my own protection

It scares me to feel this way

What's love got to do, got to do with it

What's love but a sweet old fashioned notion

What's love got to do, got to do with it

Who needs a heart when a heart can be broken

gotta admit, eek got further than me.

And since I don't have to read it, I am not going to bother. Sorry but your endless need to air your laundry and justify your lifestyle makes me ask the same questions as Boo.

Is it really important to you for people to "understand" what you do & why? Are you not able to just live your life as you see fit & not worry or care what others think or why they do what they do. I really honestly just don't get it. Is it a need for acceptance? permission? validation?.

Yes, Boo I think you are exactly right. Listening to three guys having lunch in the pub and telling each other stories about where they met their wives is a perfect example of this need for acceptance, permission and validation.

My GF asked me yesterday, “why do all the Falang men marry prostitutes.”

The nurses at the government hospital treat the foreigners poorly because they think they are sex tourists.

Look at all the threads on TV that mention Thai/Chinese wives because they think that somehow these ladies are better.

The need for understanding I think is a human trait. Some people have it in greater amount than others. Some people are medical research scientists and others to take pills. Some people fly airplanes and others design them.

I like to know what makes things work.

When I was a child I lived on a boat and had to learn to navigate. That meant I had to learn about Pythagoras because they did not have GPS when I was a kid.

Pythagoras was probably the single most educated man in the world at that point of time. He wanted to share what he knew, but the people of Samos the island where he lived, were less than enthusiastic. After finding that no one was interested to listen to his learning, he came up with a unique idea. Pythagoras offered to pay a certain sum of wages to a homeless child for every lesson that he mastered.

The boy was very happy. He thought that he could make better wages listening to this old man sitting under the shade of a large tree rather than working hard in the hot sun. Gradually, Pythagoras introduced him to the mathematical disciplines and soon the boy got so interested in his lessons that he begged for more and more lessons.

At this point, Pythagoras explained that he was not in a position to pay someone to just listen to him anymore. But as the boy was eager to learn more, they reached onto an agreement. The boy agreed to pay the teacher instead of being paid! (He had saved enough to pay Pythagoras from the earlier lessons). This was probably the start of organized education!

I believe that if you keep reading my posts that some day you will understand there is more to life than just living and you may come to understand what you do and why. And even further why it is important to understand what and why you do things in addition to just doing them.

a2 + b2 = c2 is why your airplane finds its way home. You don't need to know that to fly home but I find it reassuring.

I only read up to the 3rd post. Sorry..its just not a topic that holds my attention. If that makes someone presume thats because im not interested in sex..or am more interested in cats..or whatever..well haha...so be it.

But i have to say..im sorry mark..your comment here tickled my funny bone:

Women don’t come to Thailand looking for sexual security because it is not available for them here unless they are lesbians. And then I’m not real sure because I don’t know that many lesbians in Thailand.

I find it really bizarre how quite a few Western men have very insular views when it comes to women and their sex lives in Thailand.

Eek, I readily admitted I have no idea why western women come to Thailand. I don’t pretend to be an expert. My views are not insular they are non existent. I have a gut feeling that women don’t worry about sexual security because it is readily available but again I have no real data to support or deny this feeling.

A western woman in Thailand has never confided in me the details of her sex life. Except for one Swiss lady who told me she did not have a sex life.

It was kind of funny because she was beyond beautiful. She was movie star gorgeous. I think she scared off all the men. She was a wonderful woman but so striking men were afraid to talk to her.

She still texts me on holidays to say hi but I have never worked up the courage to actually ask her out alone. We went out a couple of times in groups and she was an excellent dancer as well as speaking 5 languages fluently. Way above my league. Maybe that was her problem. She is too young and too beautiful. If she was Thai I would have asked her out in a heartbeat. What does that say?

Not another marky conquest thread is it?

I have a thick skin but if your are going to knock me you might read the thread to find out if it is about conquest or security and survival.

I understand what you're saying, Mark.....and I think there is a paradox in your view;

Men get married so that they can have sex, and therein lies the problem. Entering into marriage so as to have sex. If sex was a bonus within marriage/partnership/hooking up, and the marriage/partnership was actually based on mutual compatability/friendship not based on sex or with sex as a proviso, then perhaps the marriage would be more enduring and you would be having sex with your wife until your libido wanes.

I like sex. I much prefer love-making....it's a better experience.

I can have sex with any woman that will have me.....but I could never make love with a prostitute. I'm not sure that a woman who loves me/puts out for me just for my material wealth is any different to a prostitute.

Before your hackles raise let me clarify that in this context, "prostitute" is said in a down to earth, realistic sense with no negative connotation.

My idealistic view is tempered with an opinion that what you are talking about is not actually "sexual security".....I suspect that you are actually talking about sexual variety, (and I include myself here) many men get bored with the one partner. I suspect that there is a primordial urge to procreate with as many woman as possible......you said it yourself; there is an attraction to a place where there is a pool of millions of vaginas to choose from, and one can dive into that pool whenever the vagina you have, for whatever reason, goes sour.

You can make it look more respectable by saying it's sexual security. The lech and the sexual tourist just make the changes quicker.

Eddie Fisher said of his wife Elizabeth Taylor, “she had the face of an angel and the morals of a truck driver.”

Elizabeth Taylor said, “when the sun comes up I have morals again.”

I never really knew what morals truck drivers had until I lived in Pattaya. I met a guy who owned a successful bar on Soi Bukhow who was a truck driver in the UK. Then the Eddie Fisher quote made sense.

Because of my fear of disease I guess one could classify me as a serial monogamous person.

Over the years I have found solutions to the variety issue which I think is innate in the male species.

I certainly can’t speak for everyone but in my case variety is not an issue.

I agree with your point that if a marriage was based on compatibility and friendship rather than sex it would have a better chance of surviving.

I have tried this tack but have never found a woman who would go along with it. Even old women. They all expect sexual fidelity even though there is no sex. That means they expect the man to be faithful and frustrated. Which brings up your other point of superiority. Marriage based on fidelity and frustration definitely puts one partner in the drivers seat. That is, one partner is driving and the other is the seat.

We may be beating our heads against the wall, Mark. I'll leave you with something I wrote...

We never know who we touched or how we touched them on our travels. One tiny thought or bit of advice might have changed someone's life forever. And, like a ripple in a pond, it spreads to far shores.

We never know who we touched or how we touched them on our travels.

One of the reasons I gave up drinking...

We never know who we touched or how we touched them on our travels.

One of the reasons I gave up drinking...

So, after reading your rambles i have to fly millions of miles to Bali to find "sexual security" or perhaps Africa. I hear the Gambia is good, or the Carribean. What's the difference with men flying off to SEA for their lovely jubbles and having a great holiday to brag about to their mates down the pub? Are you shocked that women actually have sexual urges and may have to go half way around the world the fulfill them? And why? Because their big fat ugly husbands don't do it for them!!! Just like you put down western women....

I had a great time in Thailand - both culturally and sexually (not with a Thai man, but with a Westerner who wanted to have a proper conversation, he was sick of speaking to himself)

I can tell you, I can walk out of my flat here and meet a man and have "sexual security", in fact I think I might just go see my mate of 10 years for just that this afternoon!!

Mark, i enjoy your threads. But really, you have no idea at all do you?

So, after reading your rambles i have to fly millions of miles to Bali to find "sexual security" or perhaps Africa. I hear the Gambia is good, or the Carribean. What's the difference with men flying off to SEA for their lovely jubbles and having a great holiday to brag about to their mates down the pub? Are you shocked that women actually have sexual urges and may have to go half way around the world the fulfill them? And why? Because their big fat ugly husbands don't do it for them!!! Just like you put down western women....

I had a great time in Thailand - both culturally and sexually (not with a Thai man, but with a Westerner who wanted to have a proper conversation, he was sick of speaking to himself)

I can tell you, I can walk out of my flat here and meet a man and have "sexual security", in fact I think I might just go see my mate of 10 years for just that this afternoon!!

Mark, i enjoy your threads. But really, you have no idea at all do you?

Patsy I love reading your posts but you should really read mine a bit more carefully. I said and quote “I also don’t know if women even care about sexual security. It may be so readily available that security is not an issue or they may just not ever think about it. I think women care more about financial and physical and emotional security for their family and selves far more than sexual security. But I don’t really know.”

Your statement about walking out of your flat and finding sexual security would match my expectations for western women.

I was rather surprised to find a post a while back on the ladies forum that generated so much interest in finding out about a club in Chiang Mai that catered to women instead of men. One, because there are clubs like that all over Thailand and two, because I thought everyone knew it was a status symbol for BG’s to be able to afford men from those clubs. It surprised me that ladies posting on the women’s forum would want to put themselves in the same category.

Perhaps you could answer a question for me. Do you find sexual security for women less or more available in Thailand than in the west for women and are you more inclined to avail yourself of people you have known for a period of time, say 10 years or a stranger?

a2 + b2 = c2 is why your airplane finds its way home. You don't need to know that to fly home but I find it reassuring.

good to know that you are not a pilot

Not another marky conquest thread is it?

I have a thick skin but if your are going to knock me you might read the thread to find out if it is about conquest or security and survival.

I must be a sick puppy because I am one of the few people that bothered to read it.

Have you thought about doing a column in the sealed section of a mans magazine or something, I'm not sure whether the readers here at Bedlam are ready for you.

a2 + b2 = c2 is why your airplane finds its way home. You don't need to know that to fly home but I find it reassuring.

good to know that you are not a pilot

a2 + b2 = c2 is why your airplane finds its way home. You don't need to know that to fly home but I find it reassuring.

good to know that you are not a pilot

Pythagorean Theorem

Vertical, horizontal, or diagonal distance can be solved using Pythagoras distance formula, or what is called “Pythagorean theorem.” The man who invented the distance formula based this on the dimensions of a right triangle or a 90 degree triangle. This triangle has three sides—the base, the height, and the hypotenuse, which is the diagonal side. If 2 sides have known dimensions the third unknown can be solved.

Thus, to solve the distance from one point to a standing structure, and the dimensions for the structure height and the hypotenuse are given, the distance can be calculated. The formula for this is C squared is equal to A squared plus B squared. According to the distance formula inventor, C is the value for the base, A is the value for the height, and B is the value for the hypotenuse side. The man who invented the distance formula figured any unknown value of this equation can be solved by merely manipulating or transposing the formula.

The Pythagorean Theorem is a vital formula in Geometry and Trigonometry. Architects, engineers, pilots, and seamen use it in their works. Pythagoras was said to have learned basic Geometry from the Egyptians—the famed Pyramid builders, Arithmetic from the Phoenicians, and Astronomy from the Babylonians. But his contribution to Geometry and Trigonometry was exemplary. In fact, Plato was so influenced by Pythagoras’ ideas. Scores of other philosophers and scientists were likewise influenced by the distance formula inventor.

a2 + b2 = c2 is why your airplane finds its way home. You don't need to know that to fly home but I find it reassuring.

good to know that you are not a pilot

I can’t get much more basic. That is how I explained computing distance to my 8 year old daughter. That both you and nam would not think the computation of distance would not be important to a pilot is frankly mind boggling.