Throughout the early history of mankind communication was accomplished with symbols.

Then language and alphabet was invented. Civilization flourished.

Lately I have noticed a dumbing down trend in many things. Education, music, expats living in Thailand and many more examples of the regression of society.

When I see a smiley I automatically think the person using it is unable to communicate on an adult level.

Don’t get me wrong I think smileys are great for people who can’t write a language.

Smileys also serve the function of saving people the time of putting words together. Putting words together is a sign of education and intelligence.

I also think smileys are linked to insulting people in a PC way. People who are either incapable of a proper insult or who want to insult a person but are constrained by rule or law revert to the insider, wink, wink, nudge, nudge smiley thing.

When people are sarcastic and use a smiley I am supposed to not be offended.

News flash! I am still offended. Doubly offended because you must think I am stupid not to get your point or somehow pass it off because you are being cute.

I realize not everyone is a writer and some have accumulated 500 posts by using one word answers or emotion symbols but you would think after that much posting whatever it be that they could write a simple sentence and use simple punctuation.

If you want to make me smile write something funny or if you want me to cry write something sad.

Perfect example!

You take yourself WAY to seriously sunshine.

I'm with Moonrakers. They can serve to clarify your meaning while also economising on explanation. They take the place of personal interaction, where you can witness the facial expressions associated with the words. Nothing personal, but I think your comment about IQ is rather presumptuous.

Words fail me.

Words fail me.

Could you not even muster a smiley?

Words fail me.

I'm with Moonrakers. They can serve to clarify your meaning while also economising on explanation. They take the place of personal interaction, where you can witness the facial expressions associated with the words. Nothing personal, but I think your comment about IQ is rather presumptuous.

Do you see a lot of smileys in textbooks? Do you see a lot of smileys in newspapers? Do writers use smileys when trying to convey meanings to any mass audience?

You do see a lot of symbols when communicating with monkeys. I have seen them used with dolphins too.

This is a forum - not a formal work. Your comparison is about as valid as saying that there should be no photographs in the paper - because the scene can be described; no comics - because humour can be conveyed by word; no postcards; no TV (perhaps you will allow us a radio); no circuit diagrams; no building plans... no pictorial works or representations at all. No, my examples are not valid for the argument, but can you perhaps see that neither are yours?

Smiley's do not belong in textbooks because textbooks are there to deliver facts and information, not emotion.

Newspapers do use smiley's all the time, only they are in the form of photograph's or other images which are used to help illustrate the text and portray emotion. Those images are little more than a complicated smiley.

Writers do use smileys: "He laughed", "She cried" etc. It might be in the form of text but they are still expressing an emotion. In addition many writers do use images. Should you read a book by J.R. Tolkein, for example, then you are likely to find pages of wonderful illustrations that give you a helpful insight into the creative mind of the author.

A smiley is simply a form of communication, that is all. All (or most) of us here on this and other forums manage to communicate effectively using characters in the form of letters and numerals and also characters or images in the form of smiley's. When making a post we do not have much time to give detailed images or explanations and so smiley's make a quick and convenient alternative.

Everybody else seems able to use smiley's effectively as a communication tool mark45y, it appears as though it is only you who struggles to comprehend this concept.

Words fail me.

Could you not even muster a smiley?

"....People who ..............want to insult a person but are constrained by rule or law revert to the insider, wink, wink, nudge, nudge smiley thing. ....."

Aside from the obvious flaws that others have pointed out in your OP , Marky, you contradict yourself. People who are constrained by rules and revert to smileys as a way around the rule may be quite clever in so doing.

The main thing you miss, though, is that the internet provides a global forum. Many cultures and thus many ways of expressing things, often in a language that is not mother tongue. Words alone are inadequate to convey tone.

I suggest that you start to employ smileys. History has shown that you feel that you are often misunderstood in this forum. If that is the case, a smart person would make a greater effort to convey what he wants to say.

Personally, I think that if you want to deduct IQ points from me, you may. It's not as if I care. However, if you had a higher IQ than me, then I would sit up and take notice of your judgement.

I often use a smiley to convey that even though I am taking the piss or giving you a rebuke over something that I probably thought stupid/moronic/pointless etc, I am trying to be nice about it because I am not a nasty person & don't want to hurt your ego unnecessarily :D But hey, if you think that shows signs of "being a retard" then

I think the main reason why smileys are not used in text books is that it is nearly impossible to animate a smiley on a paper page, rightly so the authors practise pc by not discriminating against animated smileys, i mean a standard smiley can be printed on a page without worry but how would the animated smileys feel?

In the case of TV, I use smilies/smileys frequently in the hopes that those of lower intelligence will understand what I am trying not to say. Who likes to be literal when you can belittle?

JMHO

Words fail me.

Me too, theres nothing about sexual conquest in the OP's claims, perhaps hes having an off day

Peace begins with a smile. - Mother Teresa

Words fail me.

Me too, theres nothing about sexual conquest in the OP's claims, perhaps hes having an off day

One of the reasons I posted about smileys was the absence of sex in the topic. I post a lot of topics with no reference to sex but they seem to get lost in the psyches of the readers who only seem to see the salacious. I hope you have enjoyed the opportunity to read and post about a subject that has other than sexual references.

I think that maybe you need to get out more mark.

The insult followed by the joke whatever the reason is the definition of passive aggressive behavior.

The force behind this behavior is hurt. Someone strong has hurt this person and the only way they know to defend themselves is to get a jab in here and there and then say it was only a joke.

Western culture is full of passive-aggressive behavior. Negative humor is a very acceptable way to relate and it reeks of passive-aggressiveness.

I found this on the net, “But the emoticon is so dam_n needy. The smiley is the snare drum rimshot of online communication (which makes the frowny the sad trombone). It clings to your virtual leg, begging for your approval. "Love me!" it grovels. "Understand me. I am trivial and light of heart even when in despair!" (The mere existence of an emoticon for "brokenhearted" is enough to, well, break my heart.) “

Well, you've expressed your point of view - one that you seem to share with no-one else in this sub-forum. You don't seem willing to accept the views of everyone else, so the argument is a stalemate. Time to move on, perhaps?

Here's a rimshot...

^I was wondering when that smiley would make its inevitable appearance in this thread...

Hmm..youve given me an idea for some interesting research. Something along the lines of "The Psychology of Forum Smileys/emoticons". I decided to google it, as i realised its probably already out there..likely done to the death too. A few things came up, but I havent yet perused.

In life we are lambasted by sensory information. We need to reduce it in order to by-pass information that isnt required or necessary. We sum things up and discard them. Sometimes incorrectly. But regardless it is necessary. This is fact. If you have interest in Psychology, you will likely already know it.

A forum (as pointed out) is not a formal piece of writing, where one takes time to formulate and consider the text carefully. It is a place to express views and opinions, quickly. Most readers will skim read the posts too. Smileys and Emoticons often aid to convey a message, and/or defuse the harshness of a comment. You see the smiley in a post often before reading the post, which can effect how you read it. Something that a person may take as insulting might be tongue in cheek. A smiley can break tension. A smiley can show that a person is only teasing. (..and if a person takes offense to teasing, they are likely too soft to be reading an open forum anyway!)

Your thinking that only "retarded" people use smileys is offensive. You state you are offended by sarcasm and that the smiley doesnt defuse anything..you are still offended..YET, you throw out a comment that all those who use smileys are "retarded". As sbk said..words do indeed fail. In fact, in my opinion, its the wise person that aims to simplify their message and help readers to not misconstrue their meaning. The smart person, imo, doesnt waste time being offended and nitpicking and aiming to act somehow superior (particularly in an open forum) by name calling all and sundry just because they dont share a similar viewpoint.

Lest i forget: " "

Here's a rimshot...

The smart person, imo, doesnt waste time being offended and nitpicking and aiming to act somehow superior (particularly in an open forum) by name calling all and sundry just because they dont share a similar viewpoint.

Lest i forget: " "

Cor, then I'm smart then, am I? 'Cos I don't take a blind bit of notice of what anyone calls me.

“But the emoticon is so dam_n needy. The smiley is the snare drum rimshot of online communication (which makes the frowny the sad trombone). It clings to your virtual leg, begging for your approval. "Love me!" it grovels. "Understand me. I am trivial and light of heart even when in despair!" (The mere existence of an emoticon for "brokenhearted" is enough to, well, break my heart.) “

Don't ya just luuuurve smileys?

Hmm..youve given me an idea for some interesting research. Something along the lines of "The Psychology of Forum Smileys/emoticons". I decided to google it, as i realised its probably already out there..likely done to the death too. A few things came up, but I havent yet perused.

In life we are lambasted by sensory information. We need to reduce it in order to by-pass information that isnt required or necessary. We sum things up and discard them. Sometimes incorrectly. But regardless it is necessary. This is fact. If you have interest in Psychology, you will likely already know it.

A forum (as pointed out) is not a formal piece of writing, where one takes time to formulate and consider the text carefully. It is a place to express views and opinions, quickly. Most readers will skim read the posts too. Smileys and Emoticons often aid to convey a message, and/or defuse the harshness of a comment. You see the smiley in a post often before reading the post, which can effect how you read it. Something that a person may take as insulting might be tongue in cheek. A smiley can break tension. A smiley can show that a person is only teasing. (..and if a person takes offense to teasing, they are likely too soft to be reading an open forum anyway!)

Your thinking that only "retarded" people use smileys is offensive. You state you are offended by sarcasm and that the smiley doesnt defuse anything..you are still offended..YET, you throw out a comment that all those who use smileys are "retarded". As sbk said..words do indeed fail. In fact, in my opinion, its the wise person that aims to simplify their message and help readers to not misconstrue their meaning. The smart person, imo, doesnt waste time being offended and nitpicking and aiming to act somehow superior (particularly in an open forum) by name calling all and sundry just because they dont share a similar viewpoint.

Lest i forget: " "

Eek you are right. I used the word “retarded” like another might use a smiley. I wanted the thread to generate some attention. It is a headline designed to get readership. It worked.

I think there is ample evidence of passive aggressive behavior and I hope my message on that topic got through.

“Something that a person may take as insulting might be tongue in cheek. A smiley can break the tension. A smiley can show that a person is only teasing.” That statement falls under the definition of passive aggressive behavior.

Something a person may take as insulting is likely insulting. If you did not want it to be insulting it should be written in a different way. The smiley is evidence of a behavior that is referred to as passive aggressive. There are many texts available to learn how to deal with passive aggressive behavior.

I don’t mind being insulted. If you look at the posts in this thread they are almost all insulting.

I guess I started it by using the word “retarded.”

However I did not try and candy coat anything. My behavior was straightforward and rational even if my opinion is different than the majority.

As I see it two points have come out. 1. Using smileys as a written short hand and 2. Using smileys to lessen the blow of an insult.

If you are using smileys to lesson the blow of an insult then maybe you should research that behavior because it probably bothers many more people than you know.

I can see the reasoning behind the written short hand, humor being part of that. But I think it is a rather imprecise way of communicating.

If you are using smileys to lesson the blow of an insult then maybe you should research that behavior because it probably bothers many more people than you know.

Perhaps you should research the terms 'banter' and 'sense of humour' mark.

As I said earlier in this thread, you take yourself way too seriously and so I suspect things such as banter will be lost on you.

Marky, you say "passive aggressive" as if it is an undesirable behaviour.

What's so wrong with passive agressiveness?

"......I don’t mind being insulted. If you look at the posts in this thread they are almost all insulting. ..."

Are they almost all insulting? If you think so, then you may be a bit over-sensitive despite your claim. I saw very few insults. Mocking, cajoling, tongue-in-cheek rib-poking.... not many insults though.