More Trouble To Arrive On Our Own Doorstep Shortly..?

[Ulysses G.]

Newspapers want to write exciting stories.

How many of us think the International media got the gist of what was really happening in Bangkok? I thought that they were mostly way off the mark. Why would they have any more insight into what may happen here in the future than those of us who actually live here and interact with Thais every single day?

Let's hope that they are on the wrong track again.

Edited May 23, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[heybruce]

So, the Al Jazeera reporter's angle was that 'underground struggle' is now all that's left. It's not. It's MUCH more likely that 'the Thai way' will prevail, and elections will take place late this year or early next year. Meanwhile all the groups in the red movement will have to do some soul searching and decide who they want to be: socialists, democracy activists, Thaksin-fanboys, or Phua Thai Party-elite.

I saw on the news that Abhisist said that there won't be any elections until all violence and protests stop. Does that mean he's now Prime Minister for Life?

[Loaded]

So, the Al Jazeera reporter's angle was that 'underground struggle' is now all that's left. It's not. It's MUCH more likely that 'the Thai way' will prevail, and elections will take place late this year or early next year. Meanwhile all the groups in the red movement will have to do some soul searching and decide who they want to be: socialists, democracy activists, Thaksin-fanboys, or Phua Thai Party-elite.

I saw on the news that Abhisist said that there won't be any elections until all violence and protests stop. Does that mean he's now Prime Minister for Life?

I think you should apply for a job with CNN using that sort of reasoning.

[ChouDoufu]

Newspapers want to write exciting stories.How many of us think the International media got the gist of what was really happening in Bangkok? I thought that they were mostly way off the mark. Why would they have any more insight into what may happen here in the future than those of us who actually live here and interact with Thais every single day?Let's hope that they are on the wrong track again.

newspapers want to write exciting stories. sex and blood sells. dull, peaceful protests rarely get even a passing mention

on the newscasts. protesters know this, those who finance the protests know this, and PR & law firms that advise those

who finance the protests know it as well.

[ollylama]

according to the (far less sensationalist) globe and mail article there's a mass rally planned for saturday with 20,000 people expected. they also suggest a guerrilla campaign against the government and the military is underway here.

that's a bummer, man. that's a bummer.

[debcmai]

Very concerning read:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/...article1578808/

[ChouDoufu]

according to the (far less sensationalist) globe and mail article there's a mass rally planned for saturday with 20,000 people expected. they also suggest a guerrilla campaign against the government and the military is underway here. that's a bummer, man. that's a bummer.

"The colour red....is still in vogue in Chiang Mai..."

has the author visited chiang mai recently? i've spent hours riding around town the past few days. red flags and

streamers on cars and buildings have all but disappeared.

"...the gathering, which she predicted would draw 20,000 people from Chiang Mai and the surrounding provinces..."

another prediction, like the million-man march?

"...gathered Sunday under a red flag on at least one street corner, in defiance of the country’s state-of-emergency laws...."

how many gathered? two? three? in defiance of non-enforced laws?

[debcmai]

according to the (far less sensationalist) globe and mail article there's a mass rally planned for saturday with 20,000 people expected. they also suggest a guerrilla campaign against the government and the military is underway here. that's a bummer, man. that's a bummer.

"The colour red....is still in vogue in Chiang Mai..."

has the author visited chiang mai recently? i've spent hours riding around town the past few days. red flags and

streamers on cars and buildings have all but disappeared.

"...the gathering, which she predicted would draw 20,000 people from Chiang Mai and the surrounding provinces..."

another prediction, like the million-man march?

"...gathered Sunday under a red flag on at least one street corner, in defiance of the country’s state-of-emergency laws...."

how many gathered? two? three? in defiance of non-enforced laws?

doing it again...making little of them. the same was said before the Bangkok build up and now we know they were able to get large crowds ( the newspaper we dare not name said upwards of 100,000 in the evenings rigtht up to the crack down) with staying power...only dwindled once the govt began firing on them.

I think you are not every where in Chiang Mai. The people I talk to, in the shops, are still very sympathetic...

you may be right...but I think there is a strong possiblitiy this is all not going away easily this time. people got lulled to sleep by the easy coup in 2006...i think they will not go down quietly this time and we would do well to take it seriously.

[orang37]

Sawasdee Khrup, TV CM Friends,

A kindly TV CM person sent us an interesting private message about Fox News, listing a long number of people who appear on it ... we believe with the intent to expand our awareness of the variety of views and opinions presented there ... and, quite fairly, asking us about our off-the-cuff negative reference to it on this thread.

Well: confession time: my human component pulled the plug on his television sixteen months ago, and very rarely watches video on the web. So, kindly TV CM person, thank you: you are quite right to question whether we are in any position to have any valid opinion about Fox News: we ain't got one. We do not know if the fragance of its video garbage reeks less or more than CNN or Al Jazeera.

That does not mean, however, we have gone completely "cold turkey" on "talking heads:" we enjoy reading the weekly transcripts of the American news program "Meet the Press," for example, usually skipping the "featured guest(s)," and going straight to the round-tables that occasionally have such illuminati as Doris Kearns Goodwin, the Pulitzer-prize winning scholar of Presidential history in the US.

Nor do we have any "global opinion" re Al Jazeera: our critical remarks were directed at only this one piece of "radical chic" videography.

We are sitting at the same campfire with Khun UG, wondering about all the reporting and analysis.

In this interesting piece Khun Somtow (novelist, musician) gives an interesting view of CNN and Dan River's reporting : Khun Somtow's pieces are often linked to on the Nation home-page. By the way, Khun Somtow's novel, "Jasmine Nights," (written in English which was his first language), is quite tasty.

http://www.somtow.org/2010/05/dont-blame-dan-rivers.html

Is "big trouble in Chiang Mai city" coming soon to a screen near you ? Stay tuned.

So let's say good morning with this happy thought from William Blake:

“All futurity seems teeming with endless destruction never to be repelled; Desperate remorse swallows the present in a quenchless rage.” from The Four Zoas, ‘Night the Eighth’

Have a nice day, best, ~o:37;

[Thailand]

Very concerning read:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/...article1578808/

Seems to be a number of cobbled together bits of stories to come up with a bit of sensationalist journalism giving the impression that CM is a hotbed of red revolutionaries which it is certainly not. As always there will be a few rediots but the huge majority have been disgusted at recent events.

As usual with the media good news is bad for news for them- they need bad news to sell their product so if it's not there manufacture it with a bit of cut and paste.

Just my 2 sense.

Simply be aware and be safe!

[debcmai]

Very concerning read:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/...article1578808/

Seems to be a number of cobbled together bits of stories to come up with a bit of sensationalist journalism giving the impression that CM is a hotbed of red revolutionaries which it is certainly not. As always there will be a few rediots but the huge majority have been disgusted at recent events.

As usual with the media good news is bad for news for them- they need bad news to sell their product so if it's not there manufacture it with a bit of cut and paste.

Just my 2 sense.

Simply be aware and be safe!

Truthfully, I think we are perfectly safe...it's the Thais I am worried about...

[ChouDoufu]

you misunderstand me. i'm not 'making little of them.' i was questioning the reporting.

i'm guessing this was a telephone interview rather than on-site reporting.

saying 'the color red is still in vogue' implies that red shirts and flags are commonly displayed.

this is not the case. they have all but disappeared in the past week.

a prediction of 20,000 protesters by the protest organizer? the predicted million protesters

in bkk turned out to be at most 100k, 10% of the prediction.

and you are correct, they had staying power up until government forces

started firing back.

Edited May 24, 2010 by ChouDoufu

[mrmillersr]

Newspapers want to write exciting stories.

How many of us think the International media got the gist of what was really happening in Bangkok? I thought that they were mostly way off the mark. Why would they have any more insight into what may happen here in the future than those of us who actually live here and interact with Thais every single day?

Let's hope that they are on the wrong track again.

Yes but newpapers write all kinds of stories, both exciting and not so exciting ones. What surprises me is the number of you who criticize articles where someone interviews a redshirt or sympathizer who portends dark days ahead as sensationalism. According to the poster above, I guess the media should be interviewing him instead since he lives here and has contacts with Thais on a daily basis. Why waste time talking with the Thais who are directly involved and are willing to say what they think.

Also, wasn't the gist of what happened in Bankok the fact that this is a country where there are groups (some small some large) that have no respect or regard for their actions and without any thought, are willing to disrupt the lives of innocent others around them - including both foreigners and locals?

Again, there is absolutely nothing anyone of us can do but scoffing at those in the media reporting what they find as just sensationalism is wrong. To me it looks like some of you would rather stick your heads in the sand rather than read anything remotely foreboding. Others want to gather information from all sources and be kept abreast of what is being reported. That being said, I don't think I need to tell you which camp I'm in.

[Loaded]

How do they reach the number 20,000? Invitations were sent RSVP? Members were polled by email? or they have just made it up? I predict aliens are going to invade on Sunday the day after the 'mass' red shirt rally. Until I'm proved wrong I must be respected as a news pundit.

[NancyL]

When and where is the Sunday rally suppose to occur? It would be nice to know to avoid the area.

[chrisll]

FOR SURE THIS WILL END UP LIKE THE SOUTH,,TIME TO LEAVE I THINK.

[mamborobert]

FOR SURE THIS WILL END UP LIKE THE SOUTH,,TIME TO LEAVE I THINK.

Your right of course....we are getting more and more like Dixieland, an opressed poor rural class seeking equal representation.

Unless of course you are talking about Islamic extremists seeking a separate state or unification with a Islamic Malaysian state in which case your reasoning on the similarities has lost me.

[orang37]

FOR SURE THIS WILL END UP LIKE THE SOUTH,,TIME TO LEAVE I THINK.

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun Chrisll,

Well, yes, with your mind in this all-capital state, it probably is a good time for you to leave. "Bon Voyage," and please do send us a postcard.

It fascinates our minds to consider the many levels on which a "perceived freedom to leave" might be such a powerful force ... a kind of "magnetism" as it were ... in shaping our perceptions (what we choose to perceive, the selective editing of sensory perceptions), and the mental reality we construct.

Last night our human form was riding his bicycle: the usual outing for soy-milk: saw armed soldiers around the railway station and the Kawila military barracks for the first time.

We watched a movie in our human's head as it temporarily played a video interview with someone dressed all in black ... a shapeless black bag not unlike the voluminous burqa recently outlawed by some European countries ... not sure if it was a man or a woman ... the person spoke through some kind of voice scrambler so their voice had a robotic saw-tooth wave tinge to it.

Essentially, the person was saying: they wanted the freedom to destroy the idea that other people had that they were "free to leave." This movie had a noire quality to it, and this statement seemed ominous. When the whoever in black said: "the ultimate freedom to leave is suicide:" we just bicycled out of the movie

We kept on bicycling, wondering if "freedom to leave" was emotional, mental, spiritual, or something else: or was all this mentation just a fantasy: with the only thing that mattered was whether you had the passport, and the money, to take the physical meat-package outside a country.

Then, like sudden heat-lightning illuminating far-away clouds: the thought that if a truly voluntary compromise of "freedom to leave" were made ... is such possible ? ... that "freedom to leave" could not be diluted: it would be like the the "purnagatha," the ever self-refreshing pot of flowers that was one of the symbols of the historical Gautama the Buddha (along with an empty "teaching chair," a conch shell, the dharma-chakra wheel, a deer, etc.) during the three hundred years or so following his physical death when visual representations of said historical Buddha as "person" were not made.[1]

Which led to the thought of how, then, of "how" to ... have ? ... attain ? ... surrender to ? ... such a freedom to make a purely voluntary choice to give-away some of your freedom, which led to a certain darkness that ached for more heat-lightning: because we know we are so far from that freedom.

It is good to keep on bicycling. The feeling of the hot soy-milk passing through the black back-pack, warming the spine.

best, ~o:37;

[1] The first major representations of the historical Gautama the Buddha (formerly Siddhartha, Prince of the Sakyas) "in human form" were made in what are now areas of Afghanistan and Pakistan, in what was, then, the Kingdom of Gandhara, by descendents of the conquering armies of Alexander the Great whose visual vocabulary was shaped by Hellenic culture: hence the first images of the Buddha often look like ancient Greeks, have long hair and mustachios, etc. Here, have an eyefull:

Gandharan Buddha Images

Edited May 24, 2010 by orang37

[Ulysses G.]

Newspapers want to write exciting stories.

How many of us think the International media got the gist of what was really happening in Bangkok? I thought that they were mostly way off the mark. Why would they have any more insight into what may happen here in the future than those of us who actually live here and interact with Thais every single day?

Let's hope that they are on the wrong track again.

What surprises me is the number of you who criticize articles where someone interviews a redshirt or sympathizer who portends dark days ahead as sensationalism. According to the poster above, I guess the media should be interviewing him instead since he lives here and has contacts with Thais on a daily basis. Why waste time talking with the Thais who are directly involved and are willing to say what they think.

No one is asking you to stop staying informed. What I said - without your spin - is that we do not know what will happen until it happens and either do the media.

I am very concerned about the situation, but Thailand is an unusual place and it is not impossible that things will not spin out of control. There is no reason to panic, but that does not mean to stop paying attention to what is going on.

All we can really do is hope for the best.

[Thailand]

FOR SURE THIS WILL END UP LIKE THE SOUTH,,TIME TO LEAVE I THINK.

Make sure you get a daytime flight as the curfew has been extended for 7 more days. We would all be very concerned if you miss it.

[thailandbluegrass]

FOR SURE THIS WILL END UP LIKE THE SOUTH,,TIME TO LEAVE I THINK.

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun Chrisll,

Well, yes, with your mind in this all-capital state, it probably is a good time for you to leave. "Bon Voyage," and please do send us a postcard.

It fascinates our minds to consider the many levels on which a "perceived freedom to leave" might be such a powerful force ... a kind of "magnetism" as it were ... in shaping our perceptions (what we choose to perceive, the selective editing of sensory perceptions), and the mental reality we construct.

Last night our human form was riding his bicycle: the usual outing for soy-milk: saw armed soldiers around the railway station and the Kawila military barracks for the first time.

We watched a movie in our human's head as it temporarily played a video interview with someone dressed all in black ... a shapeless black bag not unlike the voluminous burqa recently outlawed by some European countries ... not sure if it was a man or a woman ... the person spoke through some kind of voice scrambler so their voice had a robotic saw-tooth wave tinge to it.

Essentially, the person was saying: they wanted the freedom to destroy the idea that other people had that they were "free to leave." This movie had a noire quality to it, and this statement seemed ominous. When the whoever in black said: "the ultimate freedom to leave is suicide:" we just bicycled out of the movie

We kept on bicycling, wondering if "freedom to leave" was emotional, mental, spiritual, or something else: or was all this mentation just a fantasy: with the only thing that mattered was whether you had the passport, and the money, to take the physical meat-package outside a country.

Then, like sudden heat-lightning illuminating far-away clouds: the thought that if a truly voluntary compromise of "freedom to leave" were made ... is such possible ? ... that "freedom to leave" could not be diluted: it would be like the the "purnagatha," the ever self-refreshing pot of flowers that was one of the symbols of the historical Gautama the Buddha (along with an empty "teaching chair," a conch shell, the dharma-chakra wheel, a deer, etc.) during the three hundred years or so following his physical death when visual representations of said historical Buddha as "person" were not made.[1]

Which led to the thought of how, then, of "how" to ... have ? ... attain ? ... surrender to ? ... such a freedom to make a purely voluntary choice to give-away some of your freedom, which led to a certain darkness that ached for more heat-lightning: because we know we are so far from that freedom.

It is good to keep on bicycling. The feeling of the hot soy-milk passing through the black back-pack, warming the spine.

best, ~o:37;

[1] The first major representations of the historical Gautama the Buddha (formerly Siddhartha, Prince of the Sakyas) "in human form" were made in what are now areas of Afghanistan and Pakistan, in what was, then, the Kingdom of Gandhara, by descendents of the conquering armies of Alexander the Great whose visual vocabulary was shaped by Hellenic culture: hence the first images of the Buddha often look like ancient Greeks, have long hair and mustachios, etc. Here, have an eyefull:

Gandharan Buddha Images

<deleted> !!!!!

[thailandbluegrass]

Anyways, all I can say is every day I drive my gf to work beside the City Hall and yesterday AND today I saw more police and military then any other day in the past 2 months. But I guess you all know more then they do?

[anonymouse]

Newspapers want to write exciting stories.

How many of us think the International media got the gist of what was really happening in Bangkok? I thought that they were mostly way off the mark. Why would they have any more insight into what may happen here in the future than those of us who actually live here and interact with Thais every single day?

Let's hope that they are on the wrong track again.

Yes but newpapers write all kinds of stories, both exciting and not so exciting ones. What surprises me is the number of you who criticize articles where someone interviews a redshirt or sympathizer who portends dark days ahead as sensationalism. According to the poster above, I guess the media should be interviewing him instead since he lives here and has contacts with Thais on a daily basis. Why waste time talking with the Thais who are directly involved and are willing to say what they think.

Also, wasn't the gist of what happened in Bankok the fact that this is a country where there are groups (some small some large) that have no respect or regard for their actions and without any thought, are willing to disrupt the lives of innocent others around them - including both foreigners and locals?

Again, there is absolutely nothing anyone of us can do but scoffing at those in the media reporting what they find as just sensationalism is wrong. To me it looks like some of you would rather stick your heads in the sand rather than read anything remotely foreboding. Others want to gather information from all sources and be kept abreast of what is being reported. That being said, I don't think I need to tell you which camp I'm in.

What I'm interested in from the media is hard facts or at least intelligent analysis, a lot of what we are seeing is sensationalism because that is what sells.

I don't think anybody is saying that it is all rosy now and I think we are all aware it could turn nasty but I for one will not be swayed by hearsay or bad journalism I'm keeping my options open on the outcome of all this.

[Loaded]

Anyways, all I can say is every day I drive my gf to work beside the City Hall and yesterday AND today I saw more police and military then any other day in the past 2 months. But I guess you all know more then they do?

It wouldn't be difficult.

[ollylama]

FOR SURE THIS WILL END UP LIKE THE SOUTH,,TIME TO LEAVE I THINK.

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun Chrisll,

Well, yes, with your mind in this all-capital state, it probably is a good time for you to leave. "Bon Voyage," and please do send us a postcard.

It fascinates our minds to consider the many levels on which a "perceived freedom to leave" might be such a powerful force ... a kind of "magnetism" as it were ... in shaping our perceptions (what we choose to perceive, the selective editing of sensory perceptions), and the mental reality we construct.

Last night our human form was riding his bicycle: the usual outing for soy-milk: saw armed soldiers around the railway station and the Kawila military barracks for the first time.

We watched a movie in our human's head as it temporarily played a video interview with someone dressed all in black ... a shapeless black bag not unlike the voluminous burqa recently outlawed by some European countries ... not sure if it was a man or a woman ... the person spoke through some kind of voice scrambler so their voice had a robotic saw-tooth wave tinge to it.

Essentially, the person was saying: they wanted the freedom to destroy the idea that other people had that they were "free to leave." This movie had a noire quality to it, and this statement seemed ominous. When the whoever in black said: "the ultimate freedom to leave is suicide:" we just bicycled out of the movie

We kept on bicycling, wondering if "freedom to leave" was emotional, mental, spiritual, or something else: or was all this mentation just a fantasy: with the only thing that mattered was whether you had the passport, and the money, to take the physical meat-package outside a country.

Then, like sudden heat-lightning illuminating far-away clouds: the thought that if a truly voluntary compromise of "freedom to leave" were made ... is such possible ? ... that "freedom to leave" could not be diluted: it would be like the the "purnagatha," the ever self-refreshing pot of flowers that was one of the symbols of the historical Gautama the Buddha (along with an empty "teaching chair," a conch shell, the dharma-chakra wheel, a deer, etc.) during the three hundred years or so following his physical death when visual representations of said historical Buddha as "person" were not made.[1]

Which led to the thought of how, then, of "how" to ... have ? ... attain ? ... surrender to ? ... such a freedom to make a purely voluntary choice to give-away some of your freedom, which led to a certain darkness that ached for more heat-lightning: because we know we are so far from that freedom.

It is good to keep on bicycling. The feeling of the hot soy-milk passing through the black back-pack, warming the spine.

best, ~o:37;

[1] The first major representations of the historical Gautama the Buddha (formerly Siddhartha, Prince of the Sakyas) "in human form" were made in what are now areas of Afghanistan and Pakistan, in what was, then, the Kingdom of Gandhara, by descendents of the conquering armies of Alexander the Great whose visual vocabulary was shaped by Hellenic culture: hence the first images of the Buddha often look like ancient Greeks, have long hair and mustachios, etc. Here, have an eyefull:

Gandharan Buddha Images

<deleted> !!!!!

Hey, let's use proper punctuation when cursing. You don't want people to think we're uncultured, do you? <deleted> should be followed by a string of question marks.

[SomchaiCNX]

I'm in favor for them to go underground.

I think 6 ft will be deep enough.

[heybruce]

So, the Al Jazeera reporter's angle was that 'underground struggle' is now all that's left. It's not. It's MUCH more likely that 'the Thai way' will prevail, and elections will take place late this year or early next year. Meanwhile all the groups in the red movement will have to do some soul searching and decide who they want to be: socialists, democracy activists, Thaksin-fanboys, or Phua Thai Party-elite.

I saw on the news that Abhisist said that there won't be any elections until all violence and protests stop. Does that mean he's now Prime Minister for Life?

I think you should apply for a job with CNN using that sort of reasoning.

My comment was meant as part humor and part sarcasm. In a free society peaceful protest is allowed, provided in stays within reasonable legal boundaries (yes I know, the boundaries were seriously breached in Bangkok). If the Prime Minister refuses to have elections until after all protests end, there will be no more elections in Thailand.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Don't be silly, there will be elections. (2011 at the latest)

The larger issue however, as commented on in recent Newsweek and Economist articles (PM me for links), is that elections results are time and again thrown out through undemocratic means, including military coup, frivolous court rulings, and horse trading in parliament. Like one of those magazines said: "Whatever it takes, other than elections". This is the perception among non-Democrat voters at the moment. (Which includes far more people than Red/UDD people, obviously (and fortunately)).

Edited May 24, 2010 by WinnieTheKhwai

[heybruce]

Obviously sarcasm doesn't work here, so I'll be clear; there will be elections, before protests end, unless Abhisist wants to declare himself Prime Minister for Life. The parties supported by the Redshirts will almost certainly win, as they have won in every election in the past ten years, the Yellowshirts will start protesting, and the establishment will start conspiring to get them out of power. This will put us back to where we were in 2008.

[Puwa]

I don't get this whole thing about portraying Abhisit as a power-hungry maniac. It seems pretty clear to me that he is just a talented politician who became the Democrat party's man at the wrong time. Anyway there seems to be a fundamental contradiction in the two charges most often leveled at him: that he is mad for power, and that he is just a puppet of more powerful interests.

Regarding the troubles of the previous Thaksin parties (TRT and PPP), they brought at least some of it on themselves. Calling a snap election then paying small parties to run and lose, in order to validate their own victories, is as fraudulent as you can get.

I noticed that after the Bangkok mayhem, a very pro-Thaksin neighbor who for the last 5 years has had his home and shop literally wallpapered with TRT, PPP, and PT posters, has taken down the signs. Change of heart or change of tactics?

For me anyway, the long hard road to building democracy in Thailand will be built on institutional reform-- creating an independent judiciary, accountable policing, an anti-corruption movement--more than electoral politics, which have proved dodgy. The country has shown its ability to subvert the letter and spirit of electoral law at all levels, from the village ballot box to the inscrutable workings of the EC. Regarding institutional reform, neither side has distinguished itself. Not Team Yellow, with its influence on the courts, and certainly not team Red, with Mr T's impressive track record of disempowering every independent state agency (NCCC, NHRC, NRC...) and centralizing control to himself. I'm not suggesting that there shouldn't be elections, but that I don't see any electoral outcome in itself leading to a more democratic state.