If this blockade is in International Waters then it should be blown out of said International Waters by any means & by any & all countries capable.

Would it have made any difference to any of the anti-Israeli lobby here if Israel waited until the ships left int'l waters? We all know the answer to that one.

It turns out the ships weren't carrying weapons. This reminds me of how in Iraq the insurgents would force innocent families to drive fast at a road block so that they would get blown to hel_l just to cause an incident to use against the coalition forces.

Odd way of comparison you have there....

Lets see ships carry aid versus cars trying to speed through a check point....

As for anti any race...Well I would say it is ant piracy...anti wrong...many things but not anti the unmentionables that you mention.

Funny how folks throw that anti xxx-race deal about like a shield yet anything done from that side is deemed fair & square.

Whether it be attacking unarmed aid ships in international waters or pretty much anything else.

The point is if any country regardless of race is allowed to stop & board ships in international waters then do not later cry foul when another does it.....Period...

It will be interesting to see what happens next with the Turkish naval escort. Then lets see how the US will react or not.

While not so much a Turkish puppet as a israel puppet the US still needs to keep it open.

If this blockade is in International Waters then it should be blown out of said International Waters by any means & by any & all countries capable.

Would it have made any difference to any of the anti-Israeli lobby here if Israel waited until the ships left int'l waters? We all know the answer to that one.

It turns out the ships weren't carrying weapons. This reminds me of how in Iraq the insurgents would force innocent families to drive fast at a road block so that they would get blown to hel_l just to cause an incident to use against the coalition forces.

Do we? What do you think?

I feel I would have less argument if they had done it in Israeli waters.....does that suprise you or was that your prediction?

It would have made it a simple "Why is imprisoning Gazans" debate instead of "How dare those pirate thugs do what they did". As it stands, the Israelis are every bit guilty of murder on the high seas.

From all the international outrage, from the general public to high ranking diplomats and officials globally, if this was an orchestrated publicity stunt by Hamas (as has been suggested), then it was a stroke of brilliance.

Whoever made the publicity stunt accusation.....do you really think a Nobel Peace Laureate and a former UN diplomat (amongst all the others) would be complicit? Dream on.

I think it was a cold, cynical and perhaps clever, manipulative, nauseous piece of work by Hamas. Israel survives by making sure it does not make empty threats. A compromise solution was offered ( alternative berthing ) and this was turned down. Now why do you think that was if the humanitarian side of this was paramount in the thinking...........?

I am certainly not pro-Israeli ( dad in the old Palestine mob who was held under house arrest when he and some of his fellow veterans threatened to make a citizens arrest on Begin on his first official visit to the UK ), but saying that, I admire their strength and self-belief. Their tactics often leave a lot to be desired, one of them the way they can be conned and manipulated into doing something silly like this to hold to their principles of self-defence no matter what.

Playing games with such much needed aid, is even more sick making and using well meaning folk as cover for such a blatant political act, is a bit like herding civilians in front of your tanks as you advance.

Do we? What do you think?

I feel I would have less argument if they had done it in Israeli waters.....does that suprise you or was that your prediction?

It would have made it a simple "Why is imprisoning Gazans" debate instead of "How dare those pirate thugs do what they did". As it stands, the Israelis are every bit guilty of murder on the high seas.

From all the international outrage, from the general public to high ranking diplomats and officials globally, if this was an orchestrated publicity stunt by Hamas (as has been suggested), then it was a stroke of brilliance.

Whoever made the publicity stunt accusation.....do you really think a Nobel Peace Laureate and a former UN diplomat (amongst all the others) would be complicit? Dream on.

I made the claim that it was an orchestrated stunt by Hamas. It's been done before by others.

Have you ever heard of the Exodus? No, not the Biblical one, the 1947 one. This was a boatload of European Jews trying to reach Israel after WWII in a ship re-named The Exodus. It seems the ship was boarded in so-called international waters by the British Navy where three civilians were killed by the King's Sailors. Look it up. You might learn something. The similarities are striking.

As to your silly question about a Nobel Peace Laureate and former UN diplomat being complicit in the plan, I provide you with some names that should require no explanation.

Nobel Peace Prize - Al Gore (global warming) and Barack Obama (his entire Presidency and career in Chicago politics)

UN Diplomat - Kofi Annan (Oil for Food)

Try Googling "UN scandals" and see what you find.

In your thirst for knowledge, why not try and find out why Egypt is also blockading Gaza and has been since 2007.

Edit in:

I just remembered one of the more notorious Nobel winners...Yasser Arafat.

What do you think, Mr. Harcourt. Would good old Yasser pull such a stunt?

How silly of me to forget, even temporarily.

Do we? What do you think?

I feel I would have less argument if they had done it in Israeli waters.....does that suprise you or was that your prediction?

It would have made it a simple "Why is imprisoning Gazans" debate instead of "How dare those pirate thugs do what they did". As it stands, the Israelis are every bit guilty of murder on the high seas.

From all the international outrage, from the general public to high ranking diplomats and officials globally, if this was an orchestrated publicity stunt by Hamas (as has been suggested), then it was a stroke of brilliance.

Whoever made the publicity stunt accusation.....do you really think a Nobel Peace Laureate and a former UN diplomat (amongst all the others) would be complicit? Dream on.

I made the claim that it was an orchestrated stunt by Hamas. It's been done before by others.

Have you ever heard of the Exodus? No, not the Biblical one, the 1947 one. This was a boatload of European Jews trying to reach Israel after WWII in a ship re-named The Exodus. It seems the ship was boarded in so-called international waters by the British Navy where three civilians were killed by the King's Sailors. Look it up. You might learn something. The similarities are striking.

As to your silly question about a Nobel Peace Laureate and former UN diplomat being complicit in the plan, I provide you with some names that should require no explanation.

Nobel Peace Prize - Al Gore (global warming) and Barack Obama (his entire Presidency and career in Chicago politics)

UN Diplomat - Kofi Annan (Oil for Food)

Try Googling "UN scandals" and see what you find.

In your thirst for knowledge, why not try and find out why Egypt is also blockading Gaza and has been since 2007.

Edit in:

I just remembered one of the more notorious Nobel winners...Yasser Arafat.

What do you think, Mr. Harcourt. Would good old Yasser pull such a stunt?

How silly of me to forget, even temporarily.

if my memory serves me, i believe the Isrealis stopped a ship during arafats time that was loaded with weapons and ammunition of all sorts.

my burning question is what does amnisty international think of all this

It is not illegal for a state to search a delivery to a hostile entity in international waters and Hamas is certainly hostile. They admit freely in their charter that they are dedicated to destroying the nation of Israel and no if ands or buts about it. The US legally blockaded Germany and Japan during World War 2 and Cuba during the missile crisis and Israel warned these violent activists continually that they would not be allowed to enter their waters.

These activists have claimed over and over again that they did not raise their hands against the soldiers and the mass media keep repeating it, but there is clear video evidence that they violently attacked the soldiers before they had even reached the deck of the ship. They are liars pure and simple and violent liars. The whole purpose of this flotilla was to manipulate the public and they have done just that.

Maritime law is very murky. Here are a couple of links for those inclined to try and figure it out.

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2...each-of-the-law

http://www.un.org/Depts/los/convention_agr...os/closindx.htm

Odd way of comparison you have there....

Lets see ships carry aid versus cars trying to speed through a check point....

Odd? Not in the slightest. In fact, it's spot on.

1) Car of innocent people sent into a military check-point in an aggressive way with the purpose of provoking action which could lead to death on one side (Muslim) and extremely bad publicity for the other (USA)

2) Boat of aid sent into a military blockage in an aggressive way with the purpose of provoking action which could lead to death on one side (Muslim) and extremely bad publicity for the other (Israel)

Would it have made any difference to any of the anti-Israeli lobby here if Israel waited until the ships left int'l waters? We all know the answer to that one.

Do we? What do you think?

I feel I would have less argument if they had done it in Israeli waters.....does that suprise you or was that your prediction?

You would have "less argument"? Of course you would, but that wouldn't change your opinion of the Israelis or of what they did.

What has Hamas really in an uproar is that instead of the aid going straight to the black market where Hamas can get money for selling it to the poor Palestinians, those dam_n Israelis are sending it into Gaza in trucks to the people who need it.

It is not illegal for a state to search a delivery to a hostile entity in international waters and Hamas is certainly hostile. They admit freely in their charter that they are dedicated to destroying the nation of Israel and no if ands or buts about it. The US legally blockaded Germany and Japan during World War 2 and Cuba during the missile crisis and Israel warned these violent activists continually that they would not be allowed to enter their waters.

These activists have claimed over and over again that they did not raise their hands against the soldiers and the mass media keep repeating it, but there is clear video evidence that they violently attacked the soldiers before they had even reached the deck of the ship. They are liars pure and simple and violent liars. The whole purpose of this flotilla was to manipulate the public and they have done just that.

The bold sentence...:

That's nonsense because the video has been aired all over the world (the Israel version....) and everyone knows and has seen that the activists attacked the commandos indeed.

Commandos, attacking a ship in international waters in the middle of the night with their helicopters and speedboats; a ship with aid goods on board and everyone knew, on both sides, there weren't any weapons on board because that would have blown the whole operation which was a peaceful protest operation meant to help the Palestinians in Gaza, not an attack by Hamas.

Israel knew about this a long time ago since the whole operation was publicized.

But, not a single word what happened after that...9 people killed with at least 4 of them with a straight bullet in their head (in the middle of the night) and also 9 or 10 activists in very serious, life threatening, condition in Israeli hospitals next to the many less wounded activists.

How did that happen....?

Was that justified ?

I think some high so military men in Israel are under investigation right now because they blew it...badly.

A silly, dumb and unnecessary action and that's exactly what the military consensus within Israel is right now.

A stupid action by Israel and that's how the world thinks about it.

LaoPo

A stupid action by Israel and that's how the world thinks about it.

LaoPo

"The world" has been wrong more than once and this time is no different.

I'm no friend of Israel or Fox News, but as a mariner who has been on vessels that have been boarded numerous times in international waters and not, I agree the maritime law is on Israel's side, even if the PR fallout is not. But I guess the whole point was to create the negative PR, huh?

Only one or two hundred years before the oil runs out... if Israel can survive that long.. it wins!

Why they couldn't take a piece of the old soviet union I dont know... oh yes.. that bloody rock.

A stupid action by Israel and that's how the world thinks about it.

LaoPo

"The world" has been wrong more than once and this time is no different.

Hahah The world is wrong again & koheesti is right again ...rich

Laopo do not try to confuse with facts as they fall on deaf ears

Only one or two hundred years before the oil runs out... if Israel can survive that long.. it wins!

Why they couldn't take a piece of the old soviet union I dont know... oh yes.. that bloody rock.

Maybe you remember that Stalin created a "homeland" for their Jews - way out in Siberia bordering China.

Paintballs to pistols, Israel admits ship blunders

Dan Williams

JERUSALEM

Tue Jun 1, 2010 1:02pm EDT

JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Wrong intelligence, wrong guns, wrong tactics. Israel's military acknowledged big mistakes on Tuesday during the bungled boarding of a Gaza-bound aid ship in which elite troops killed nine international activists.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6502...37:b34554112:z0

LaoPo

Paintballs to pistols, Israel admits ship blunders

Dan Williams

JERUSALEM

Tue Jun 1, 2010 1:02pm EDT

JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Wrong intelligence, wrong guns, wrong tactics. Israel's military acknowledged big mistakes on Tuesday during the bungled boarding of a Gaza-bound aid ship in which elite troops killed nine international activists.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6502...37:b34554112:z0

LaoPo

It doesn't matter what is on a ship if it is trying to run a blockade. If you try to run through a police roadblock and nothing illegal in your car does that make it all right? Try it next time the BIB have a roadblock set up. Chances are, they have no reason other than to collect tea money.

I think it was a cold, cynical and perhaps clever, manipulative, nauseous piece of work by Hamas. Israel survives by making sure it does not make empty threats. A compromise solution was offered ( alternative berthing ) and this was turned down. Now why do you think that was if the humanitarian side of this was paramount in the thinking...........?

I am certainly not pro-Israeli ( dad in the old Palestine mob who was held under house arrest when he and some of his fellow veterans threatened to make a citizens arrest on Begin on his first official visit to the UK ), but saying that, I admire their strength and self-belief. Their tactics often leave a lot to be desired, one of them the way they can be conned and manipulated into doing something silly like this to hold to their principles of self-defence no matter what.

Playing games with such much needed aid, is even more sick making and using well meaning folk as cover for such a blatant political act, is a bit like herding civilians in front of your tanks as you advance.

You write as if you agree that the entire flotilla and it's decision to continue towards Gaza was a Hamas idea. It is not a realistic idea and in my mind very unlikely.

We may never know.

The "compromise" that Israel offered was untenable to the aid organisers. The whole idea was to get humanitarian aid to the suffering Gazans; Do you think Israel would have allowed all the aid in, and in a timely fashion? Israel bans all sorts of harmless items on their ridiculous pretext of "security."Prohibited items include common ones like sage, cardamon, jam, vinegar, chocolate, fruit preserves and dried fruit, seeds and nuts, biscuits and sweets, fresh meat, fabric for clothing, fishing rods, musical instruments, writing implements, notebooks, newspapers, toys, razors, heaters, horses, donkeys, goats, cattle, and chicks."

It was Israel's blockade that the flotilla was making a stand about. The blockade, put in place ostensibly for security, is in fact in place to punish, subjugate, demoralise, and harm the Palestinian civilians.

Paintballs to pistols, Israel admits ship blunders

Dan Williams

JERUSALEM

Tue Jun 1, 2010 1:02pm EDT

JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Wrong intelligence, wrong guns, wrong tactics. Israel's military acknowledged big mistakes on Tuesday during the bungled boarding of a Gaza-bound aid ship in which elite troops killed nine international activists.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6502...37:b34554112:z0

LaoPo

It doesn't matter what is on a ship if it is trying to run a blockade. If you try to run through a police roadblock and nothing illegal in your car does that make it all right? Try it next time the BIB have a roadblock set up. Chances are, they have no reason other than to collect tea money.

It's very convenient for the pro-Israel lobby to overlook the fact that the blockade is illegal and anti-humanitarian; That fact is what the aid convoy was all about.

Paintballs to pistols, Israel admits ship blunders

Dan Williams

JERUSALEM

Tue Jun 1, 2010 1:02pm EDT

JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Wrong intelligence, wrong guns, wrong tactics. Israel's military acknowledged big mistakes on Tuesday during the bungled boarding of a Gaza-bound aid ship in which elite troops killed nine international activists.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6502...37:b34554112:z0

LaoPo

It doesn't matter what is on a ship if it is trying to run a blockade. If you try to run through a police roadblock and nothing illegal in your car does that make it all right? Try it next time the BIB have a roadblock set up. Chances are, they have no reason other than to collect tea money.

It's very convenient for the pro-Israel lobby to overlook the fact that the blockade is illegal and anti-humanitarian; That fact is what the aid convoy was all about.

Illegal? Tell it to the Egyptians.

http://blogs.news.sky.com/foreignmatters/Post:077f7e56-cb03-414e-9683-82158cd57f8d

For years now almost all media when writing about the 'siege' of Gaza has refered to it as the Israeli blockade. This term is misleading, not because there is no Israeli blockade, but because it gives the impression that it is only Israel which prevents the free flow of goods in and out of the territory. Israel imposed the blockade after Hamas took control of Gaza, and tightened it when thousands more rockets were fired into Israel leading to the war of Dec 08 - Jan09.

However, there are no Israeli's inside Gaza, nor along the border with Egypt, nor at the Rafah crossing into Egypt which is controlled by the Egyptians. Cairo does not allow goods to pass into Gaza through Rafah because it does not want to recognise the authority of Hamas.

And this one...

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Middle-East...in-the-blockade

where is the world outrage over the Isreali kidnapped soldier that has been held for over a yr. by hamas.

where is the world outrage over the Isreali kidnapped soldier that has been held for over a yr. by hamas.

Paintballs to pistols, Israel admits ship blunders

Dan Williams

JERUSALEM

Tue Jun 1, 2010 1:02pm EDT

JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Wrong intelligence, wrong guns, wrong tactics. Israel's military acknowledged big mistakes on Tuesday during the bungled boarding of a Gaza-bound aid ship in which elite troops killed nine international activists.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6502...37:b34554112:z0

LaoPo

It doesn't matter what is on a ship if it is trying to run a blockade. If you try to run through a police roadblock and nothing illegal in your car does that make it all right? Try it next time the BIB have a roadblock set up. Chances are, they have no reason other than to collect tea money.

..."trying to run a blockade..." ? whilst the (slow) ship was 120 km or 75 miles away from the blockade ?

The countries who have their Navy ships in the area off the coast of Somalia, trying to protect commercial vessels from being attacked by Somalian pirates are more "polite" and sophisticated than this action.

Israel should have acted in a more civil way; I hear nobody about the people who were killed.

LaoPo

where is the world outrage over the Isreali kidnapped soldier that has been held for over a yr. by hamas.

Not a wholly unreasonable statement, but nonetheless, I would suggest it is a different thread to this one.

A stupid action by Israel and that's how the world thinks about it.

It was stupid that Israel assumed that the "peace" activists would be peaceful. They were pro-Hamas radicals looking to provoke violence and they got it. The Israelis should have come in like the ship was chock full of terrorists, because that is where their sympathies lay.

where is the world outrage over the Isreali kidnapped soldier that has been held for over a yr. by hamas.

Where is the world outrage over the 46 South Koreans killed by North Korea with a missle? Hypocrites.

It is not illegal for a state to search a delivery to a hostile entity in international waters and Hamas is certainly hostile. They admit freely in their charter that they are dedicated to destroying the nation of Israel and no if ands or buts about it. The US legally blockaded Germany and Japan during World War 2 and Cuba during the missile crisis and Israel warned these violent activists continually that they would not be allowed to enter their waters.

These activists have claimed over and over again that they did not raise their hands against the soldiers and the mass media keep repeating it, but there is clear video evidence that they violently attacked the soldiers before they had even reached the deck of the ship. They are liars pure and simple and violent liars. The whole purpose of this flotilla was to manipulate the public and they have done just that.

That's nonsense because the video has been aired all over the world (the Israel version....) and everyone knows and has seen that the activists attacked the commandos indeed.

Now that Fox has released the video other media are showing snippets of it as well, but it was available for the first two days after the incident and they ignored it completely. better late than never - I guess.

where is the world outrage over the Isreali kidnapped soldier that has been held for over a yr. by hamas.

Not a wholly unreasonable statement, but nonetheless, I would suggest it is a different thread to this one.

I was interested in what Turkey's reaction would be here, whether they'd just sabre rattle or do something serious.

I googled keywords Turkey Israel Nato for news and much to my surprise the first four results were stridently pro Israel.

Seems like the damned liberal press haven't got control of the internet yet.

http://www.google.co.th/search?q=turks+nat...lient=firefox-a

A stupid action by Israel and that's how the world thinks about it.

LaoPo

NEWSFLASH LaoPo,

Clearly thats not how 'the world' thinks about it, because there are voices everwhere, including posters here at TV, stating otherwise.

I certainly wouldnt get too hung up on the way that certain mainstream circles of the media are reporting, for obvious reasons .

I again, cannot jump up and down on the spot claiming one thing or another because I'm yet to see complete and FULL video footage to support either case.

Of course, there are plenty of other people jumping up and down on the spot, so it shouldnt matter

Paintballs to pistols, Israel admits ship blunders

Dan Williams

JERUSALEM

Tue Jun 1, 2010 1:02pm EDT

JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Wrong intelligence, wrong guns, wrong tactics. Israel's military acknowledged big mistakes on Tuesday during the bungled boarding of a Gaza-bound aid ship in which elite troops killed nine international activists.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6502...37:b34554112:z0

LaoPo

It doesn't matter what is on a ship if it is trying to run a blockade. If you try to run through a police roadblock and nothing illegal in your car does that make it all right? Try it next time the BIB have a roadblock set up. Chances are, they have no reason other than to collect tea money.

To be simplistic, lets be chronological about it (but not by going back further than the actual incident). If the ships crew had allowed Israel non violent access & for the ship to be searched, would there have been any deaths or injuries? My guess, probably not. If the ship was cleared of possessing any weaponry, would it have been allowed to continue on its 'so called' humanitarian run? My guess, probably.

So, having said that & I don't believe what I have said to be that outrages, one can only be left wondering why this situation transpired into what it has become?