Solar Power

[sezzo]

I have been having heaps of trouble trying to get a definative answer from the local electricity mob about getting power connected to my new house which is about 500 m fromthe nearest power transmission lines and about 1 km from the nearest household power supply.

Has anybody heard of solar power for remote located houses and how much am I in for. Just researching for alternatives.

Thanks

[tso310]

Might be helpful, if you find out about any costs I'll be interested.

http://www.leonics.com/html/en/pd_ecp/pd_ecp_pv.php#homesys

http://www.siamsolar.com/index_en.asp

http://www.swdsbd.com/productbyband.asp?grp_id=1&band_id=1

http://www.solartron.co.th/

[chownah]

I recently heard somewhere that the gov't was going to subsidize some solar for remote locations...don't know if you qualify...its probably for remote villages not individuals....I can't remember where I heard this...maybe here in the news forum?

[aletta]

There is a thread with some info on solar,i think it worked out at approx 2 dollars per watt.(400 dollars for a 200 watt panel)Thats 16000 baht for 200 watts,not cheap at all.

However,electricity poles are not cheap either,6000 Baht each a few years ago.

[Rinrada]

Allowing for the fact that a half decent A/C unit might run at 2.5 kw (2,500 kw)with your costs based on circa 16,000 Bts for 200 watts (total just to keep cool=200,000)

Might be worth considering the "poles"or getting a couple of lads with shovels to start digging.

Depending on your requirements a 4 core 25mm pvc-swa (if you can get one)should cover you and allow for Volts drop.

I am looking a using Solar/wind generators but only for water pumping and storage operations and maybe to keep the beer cool.

[Bikkel]

I looked some time ago into the renewable energy biz for my energy needs. I came to the conclusion that for Thailand with its relatively low diesel prizes, renewable energy is totally uneconomical in the short run.

Yet diesel prizes are expected to go up and up in the future, since the Chinese and Indian people start getting prosperous.

For a 10 kW diesel generator: 3 k$ on Ebay ex operational costs, compare this to an investment in solar power of 25 k$+. Biogas is nice for cooking, for electricity you need shit from 100+ piggies, a really big pooperscooper (septic tank) and a converted diesel generator that uses 1 liter diesel / hour to ignite the biogas and to prevent H2S corrosion.

Check out Palang Thai, something like 'power to the Thai people' (?):

Palang Thai

Yet a solar water heater from solarhart is worth considering.

Renewable energy suppliers in Thailand here

[Deke]

The Entech exhibition will be held at BITEC from 7 to 10 July. Some of the local PV suppliers will have exhibits as well as others. It should be a good source of information if you're seriously interested.

[peter991]

Like Australia - Thailand always struck me as a perfect place for solar hot water heating. With cheaper labour and (relatively) high electricity charges, I am surprised that more use is not made of solar hot water systems instead of instant electric water heaters.

Thanks for the solar links, tso310. I will have a look at the links above to find out more.

[spacebass]

The big problem with solar electricity is storing the charge, you need a lot of batteries to run anything serious and they are expensive and take up a lot of space.

Now solar water heating, criminally underutilised.

[aletta]

You can produce your solar heated water with a few large pvc pipes painted black.There are some good photos on one of the threads.

[lopburi3]

Solar water heat does not work well with one pipe plumbing. It is used in many hotels that have duty free access to imported fixtures but homes normally have simple on/off valves and only one feed.

[Khun Bob]

I can get hold of solar panels for some good prices - but as has allready been said what is the cheapest way of holding the power you have converted ? Batteries are not that cheap and you lose power in storing and also power deteriorates when stored. I think this is why conversion to water heat is more efficient - but theres not that much call for lots of hot water in Thailand !

I've just been looking at the UK cakking itself over meeting targerts for renewable energey by 2010 and they are going big time on wind farms - but whn you look at the power some of those propellers produce it is incredible - mega watts ! i just wondered if you think wind power would be a goer in Thailand and where might ne the best place ?

This might be a hot topic as the Thai PM wants less energy usage and may impose some drastic measures to achieve this - and this may also explain the strange deviation recently the Thai Baht has had from the USD.

[kidtongue]

I have been having heaps of trouble trying to get a definative answer from the local electricity mob about getting power connected to my new house which is about 500 m fromthe nearest power transmission lines and about 1 km from the nearest household power supply.

Has anybody heard of solar power for remote located houses and how much am I in for.  Just researching for alternatives.

Thanks

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Long and short of it:Your house design will affect 85% of your energy consumption. Still want solar (you can sell back to the grid) 2.5 kW isn't a bad guess (watching tv, using computer, laundry,microwave,blow drying hair) but you have 2 serious problems: (1) getting everything back from DC to AC (an inverter) and (2) a properly designed battery system. You have to talk to PEA about stringing the line to your place and they're required by law to buy it back, but you have to have the equipment in place to put it on the grid and meter it as well.

For the same amount of money you can hire a lifetime supply of fan bearers of suitable age. Might be better than having a tv.

[Bikkel]

Here is an example of all the hardware you will need for a solar power installation. Its the solar power project for the SETI people down under:

Seti solar power

Solarhart waterheaters can be found here

>hire a lifetime supply of fan bearers of suitable age?

I was thinking of a large array of hometrainers with a dynamo

[bakachan]

your not that far from the power poles. it would definately be cheaper to pay for an extension. i lived many years with a yanmar diesel tractor motor mated to a 5kw

belt driven ac generator that i called very unaffectionaly "the beast" It was LOUD and smelly.

i also installed solar panels, used ones but still expensive to supplement. i had a bank of golf cart batteries that were charged via the solar or the generator. cost was around 10,000 us dollars and i installed everything myself.

whenever i needed to run anything that required more amps than the inverter put out, air conditioner, air compressor, ide crank up the beast.

i had to buy 12 volt appliances, ceiling fan, vacuum cleaner, which were very expensive compared to their ac counterparts and of cheaper quality.

i finally got sick of it and paid 5000 dollars to have power lines put in.

However, it was nice whenever there was a power outage i always had lights.

The area i was in was very mountainous and power outages could last a week or

more because it took crews a long time to get to the area and the trees were thick and fell against the lines constantly.

[haha]

I started a thread on the subject last month. you can do a search on my handle to locate it.

personally, I would do a google search for "solar energy forums" to ask people who have solar systems installed for their feedback.

instead of a few responses, why not get a crowd of people who have them installed to provide you with information. right?

http://www.solardepot.com/c_system_examples.htm

http://www.windsun.com/testmonials.htm

http://www.manytracks.com/solar.htm

http://www.solarsense.com/Testimonials/Testimonials.html

http://www.backwoodssolar.com/

http://www.gensets.com/solarpower/

http://www.acmesolar.com/testimonials.phtml

http://www.hatcreekpublishing.com/

[bambob]

not really feasible until the installation costs reach 'grid parity' ,thats the magic words.

the price of electricity will need to rise so much or the price of equipment falls to reach 'grid parity'

the state of the art in solar power will improve and become cheaper but that point has not yet been reached.

[aletta]

It needs some government promoton to get solar going,otherwise there will not be the economies of scale to bring the cost down and thus stimulate demand.A bit of a chicken and egg scenario.

[yuyi]

It needs some government promoton to get solar going,otherwise there will not be the economies of scale to bring the cost down and thus stimulate demand.A bit of a chicken and egg scenario.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Of course it would be nice to have some "government promotion". But it is not needed to get "solar going". As a matter of fact the production of the solar power cell factories is sold out for years. Now they need to build new factories, to have something to sell for any new demand.

Building these new factories does mean a big investment, and as a consequence solar power cells did get much more expensive this year.

A friend of me is building a house now, and he looked at a smaller solar system (8 panels) for his new house. Last year he would have got the whole system for 100000 baht. Now it is at 170000 baht, price guaranteed for one month only.

Still a very good price for Thailand. It is calculated as it should be: purchase price plus reasonable margin. The dollar sign which so many Thais see on the farangs forehead has no influence here.

Here is what you can get for these 170000 baht:

SOL-PV–1K

This system is designed to supply power for the following equipment:

·  1 energy-saving refrigerator

·  4 energy-saving lamps, 9 W each

·  1 television

·  1 radio

·  1 satellite receiver station

 

System Components:

·  1 Solar generator with 8 RWE ASF32 solar modules, 32W each

·  2 Aluminum mounting frame for 4 modules

·  4 Solar batteries, 110Ah each, with acid

·  1 Solar charging controller, 12A

·  1 Inverter 600W, 24V/12V

·  1 installation set, comprising:

      * Bypass cable, battery cable with fuse and terminal clips, battery terminal, small items 

·  1 external overload protection device for the inverter (price on application); this device

  is not essential, but it does offer additional for the inverter

 

Price ex work Bangkok no VAT 166.000TB

NOTE: Last year this system was still at 100000 baht

As you can see this is not enough for A/C (but why do you need unhealthy A/C anyway, go open the window (only as long as you do not live in BKK of course) and install some fans )

But if you need a bigger system, here is one:

SOL-PV–2M

This system is designed to supply power for the following equipment:

·  1 energy-saving refrigerator, class A, volume approx. 200l

·  8 energy-saving lamps, 9 W each

·  1 television

·  1 radio

·  1 satellite receiver station

·  1 Coffee-maker

·  1 power tool, up to 900 W

This System is not designed for the simultaneous operation of the coffee-maker and the power tool

   

System Components:

·  1 Solar generator with 16 RWE ASF32 solar modules, 32W each

·  4 aluminum mounting frame for 4 modules

·  8 Solar batteries, 110Ah each, with acid

·  1 Solar charging controller, 20 A with digital readout

·  1 Inverter 1,3 KW, 24V/ 

·  1 installation set, comprising:

  * Bypass cable, battery cable with fuse and terminal clips, battery terminal, small items 

·  1 external overload protection device for the inverter (price on application); this device

    is not essential, but it does offer additional for the inverter

     

     

Price ex work Bangkok no VAT 320.000TB

Still not enough power? Here is more:

SOL-PV–3M

This system is designed to supply power for the following equipment:

·  1 energy-saving refrigerator 

·  1 energy-saving freezer

·  12 energy-saving lamps, 9 W each

·  1 television

·  1 radio

·  1 CD player

·  1 Stereo system

·  1 satellite receiver station

·  1 Coffee-maker

·  1 dishwasher

·  1 power tool, up to 1.5 KW

·  1 Washing machine

It is strongly recommended that a solar collector should used to supply hot water to the dishwasher and washing machine. If hot  water is used; the power required by these appliances can be reduced by at least 70%.

No more than two large power consumers, such as hairdryers, power tools, dishwashers and washing machines, may be operated at the same time   

System Components:

·  1 Solar generator with 48 RWE ASF32 solar modules, 32W each

·  12 aluminum mounting frame for 4 modules

·  2 module coupler, 45 Ah

·  12 high-performance solar batteries, 2V 1000Ah, with acid and Aqua Gen

·  1 Solar charging controller, type STR 145,with digital readout

·  1 Inverter 2.0 KW, 24V

·  1 installation set, comprising:

      *    Bypass cable, battery cable with fuse and terminal clips, battery terminal, small items 

·  1 external overload protection device for the inverter 

Price ex work Bangkok no VAT 927.000TB   

The power cells are made in Germany by RWE, and last at least 25 years. The batteries should be good for 7 to 10 years, depending on your usage.

So you have to put some money down to have free electricity for a long long time. But it is not that much. Many shops in LOS have ridiculous prices, and not the best material. Compare!

BTW, there is no need to get 12 Volt appliances, these systems include an inverter which gives you a nice electronicly generated sinus curve AC (Beware, lower quality systems used "hacking" and "hacked" AC can kill your PC etc.)

i also installed solar panels, used ones but still expensive to supplement. i had a bank of golf cart batteries that were charged via the solar or the generator. cost was around 10,000 us dollars and i installed everything myself.

bakachan, the medium system described above is new under the 10000 $ US you paid for your used system, how does it compare?

[bakachan]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

bakachan, the medium system described above is new under the 10000 $ US you paid for your used system, how does it compare?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It wouldnt be a fair comparison since these panels I got were about 1/2 price of

new at the time (about 10 yrs ago). They were from a demonstration power plant that had put concentrator mirrors on them and literally cooked them brown. However, their output was just a little less than new but they had no idea how long they would last. Here someone posted on the web a picture of the same panels . There were many many sets that were sold.

http://www.otherpower.com/otherpower_solar_used.html

that 10,000 included the yanmar diesel. My inverter was a trace 1k and I had 2 trace charge controllers for the 2 arrays. My array put out about 800 watts on a cool day and i had 8 huge golf cart batteries bought new. I also had a very very expensive

submersible DC well pump. That was 800 dollars alone.

Another negative to solar is theft. If you have bad neighbors you could come home

and find some solar panels missing. If i installed them in an area that was

remote and or i didnt trust my neighbors, ide drill holes through the frames and

chain them together.

The reasoning behind buying 12 volt appliances, ceiling fan etc.. was for peak

output times. There is quite a bit of loss with the batteries + inverter so running

them at peak times is like skimming gravy off the top.

Edited July 3, 2005 by bakachan

[sezzo]

your not that far from the power poles. it would definately be cheaper to pay for an extension.  i lived many years with a yanmar diesel tractor motor mated to a 5kw

belt driven ac generator  that i called very unaffectionaly "the beast"  It was LOUD and smelly.

i also installed solar panels, used ones but still expensive to supplement. i had a bank of golf cart batteries that were charged via the solar or the generator.  cost was around 10,000 us dollars and i installed everything myself.

whenever i needed to run anything that required more amps than the inverter put out, air conditioner, air compressor, ide crank up the beast.

i had to buy 12 volt appliances, ceiling fan, vacuum cleaner,  which were very expensive compared to their ac counterparts and of cheaper quality.

i finally got sick of it and paid 5000 dollars to have power lines put in.

However,  it was nice whenever there was a power outage i always had lights.

The area i was in was very mountainous and power outages could last a week or

more because it took crews a long time to get to the area and the trees were thick and fell against the lines constantly.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A week or so after posting this topic, surprise surprise, the electricity mob sent out 2 guys to give me a quote (only took 3 months to get there). They quoted 100,000 baht to put in a transformer and run the cables down the road to the house.

Going by the trouble and cost involved in the above post I might pay the money and get the power put on the easy way.

Thanks very much for all that answered my initial question. I have appreciated all the advice and information.

[Diggerbasher]

927,000 Baht and not enough electricity for one air conditioner.

[yuyi]

927,000 Baht and not enough electricity for one air conditioner.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, you got it: a/c is a huge waste of energy.

And not healthy, not at all.

Switch them all off, and Thailand's energy problem is solved. And not so much monkeys running around anymore with suite and tie, but with proper clothes for this climate here.