If You Were Innocent But Charged With A Heinous Crime ...

[Jingthing]

Here is the complete text of the poll question. It is a complicated question, so I am doing it this way.

Imagine this scenario. You are arrested and charged in Thailand of a very heinous crime. BUT YOU KNOW YOU ARE INNOCENT! The kind of crime that would make everyone hate you if you were guilty and would get you a massive sentence in a hellhole of a Thai prison. Then, what luck, you are able to make a deal and allowed to leave Thailand for a short amount of time, but required to come back to face trial. To add to the drama, assume you have a massive amount of assets in Thailand. So now to the question --

Would you come back to face trial (and take your chances with the Thai justice system, basically risking it all to clear your name)?

[smokie36]

Had to vote 'Not Sure' as you failed to tell us whether we got a decent lawyer....its way too subjective content....depends on witnesses are the police directly involved....high ranking Thai officials pissed off ...and on and on.....

[joe552]

I think the natural instinct for most Westerners would be a belief that the justice system would eventually clear the innocent. But from what I've read of Thailand's justice system, I would have no confidence, and would fight extradition if I were innocent.

[smokie36]

Had some time to think about it and changed to NO.....I hear Montenegro is pleasant this time of year.....

[balo]

I voted NO

After all we only live once, and living in a thai prison for years is not an option for me. Even if I'm innocent.

[Jingthing]

BTW, in case it isn't obvious, this poll is based on this real life situation of the Russian guy arrested in Pattaya --

To be clear, I have no opinion on this person's guilt or innocence in real life, and the presumed innocence is a construct for purposes of the hypothetical question of this poll. Like many people, I was very surprised that this man did return to Thailand under these circumstances, whether he is guilty or not. If innocent there is always the real risk of being falsely convicted. He had the chance to run away, and he came back. Definitely worth remarking about.

Edited July 18, 2010 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Had to vote 'Not Sure' as you failed to tell us whether we got a decent lawyer....its way too subjective content....depends on witnesses are the police directly involved....high ranking Thai officials pissed off ...and on and on.....

You ask too much of me. I can't deliver. However, what I think you are saying is that if you were very confident of being acquitted you would come back. But even with that confidence, there is always the risk. It occurs to me now that I should have also said to presume that the hypothetical you would be able to settle in a country with no extradition agreement with Thailand.

[smokie36]

Had to vote 'Not Sure' as you failed to tell us whether we got a decent lawyer....its way too subjective content....depends on witnesses are the police directly involved....high ranking Thai officials pissed off ...and on and on.....

You ask too much of me. I can't deliver. However, what I think you are saying is that if you were very confident of being acquitted you would come back. But even with that confidence, there is always the risk. It occurs to me now that I should have also said to presume that the hypothetical you would be able to settle in a country with no extradition agreement with Thailand.

I take it you're saying its 50/50 on acquittal.....in that case no way jose.....Phnom Penh here I come.....!

[Just1Voice]

If I were "Average Joe", and knowing the Thai "justice system", my answer would be "NO!" However, if I were an internationally recognized figure, very high profile, then I probably would because I know the international media and community would be watching with interest, thereby putting pressure on the Thai courts to make sure they conduct the trial fairly, openly, and without prejudice.

On the other hand, TIT, so there's also the chance the Thai courts don't give a dam_n about the rest of the world and will administer "justice" as they see it, which may not be as it really is.

[sarahsbloke]

you forgot to add.

.... and knew many people in charge of Thailand wanted you guilty and conspired to get a guilty verdict.

[Ulysses G.]

Innocent or guilty, most foreigners would vote with their feet.

[liveinlos]

Had to vote 'Not Sure' as you failed to tell us whether we got a decent lawyer....its way too subjective content....depends on witnesses are the police directly involved....high ranking Thai officials pissed off ...and on and on.....

You ask too much of me. I can't deliver. However, what I think you are saying is that if you were very confident of being acquitted you would come back. But even with that confidence, there is always the risk. It occurs to me now that I should have also said to presume that the hypothetical you would be able to settle in a country with no extradition agreement with Thailand.

Remember the Russian Pilots that landed at Don Muang with all the artillery and weapons on board and the Thai govt let them walk away after about 2 months of legal wrangling?

The same thing with this Russian Pianist

He is so famous the Russian govt is now involved and I suspect he will be cleared of any charges whether he is guilty or innocent

Power has a place in Thailand and without it, he would be in jail already

[Haacker]

This case seems like a case of extortion. It reminds me of a movie that was on TV a couple of months ago. I think the name of the movie was "Street Gangs of new York". In this movie children (street erchents) That had no one the take care of them. Fell in with adult criminal, to form a gang to steel from the rich. Here we have a man that has lived in Thailand for 15 years, Has excursive real estate holding here in the land of smiles. To the small time criminal that sells boys for sex. This extortion Plan is his way to the good life.

[tingtongfarang]

Had to think for while, then remembered watching a video where Dr Porntip made a verbal statement claiming that there are a very high percentage or cases where there police had managed to force false statements by means of torture and fabricated evidence, She claims in 60% of casses the police are wrong...and they know it!

It also seems that any dna or scientific evidence is is only used by the police if for thier advantage ie dna results not available for people to prove thier innocence,

I voted no

But then if i were pletnev and innocent i maybe would return.

Edited July 19, 2010 by tingtongfarang

[leemo]

No thanks. If they had enough 'evidence' or weighted instruction to charge me, I would not risk my liberty by appearing before a Thai judge. I might envy the courage of someone who does, but that would come with no sympathy.

Fwiw, I wouldn't hesitate to take my chances in a country where justice is regarded as more than a legal nicety.

[DP25]

I'd leave. Not just Thailand though, I'd do it anywhere. Innocent people go to jail everywhere, sometimes even executed. Supposedly Brazil won't extradite you if you have a child there, so that's what I'd do.

[Jingthing]

The results so far are what I would have predicted. Which makes the return of the Russian, which inspired this poll, even more curious.

[leoalex]

Had to vote 'Not Sure' as you failed to tell us whether we got a decent lawyer....its way too subjective content....depends on witnesses are the police directly involved....high ranking Thai officials pissed off ...and on and on.....

You ask too much of me. I can't deliver. However, what I think you are saying is that if you were very confident of being acquitted you would come back. But even with that confidence, there is always the risk. It occurs to me now that I should have also said to presume that the hypothetical you would be able to settle in a country with no extradition agreement with Thailand.

Remember the Russian Pilots that landed at Don Muang with all the artillery and weapons on board and the Thai govt let them walk away after about 2 months of legal wrangling?

The same thing with this Russian Pianist

He is so famous the Russian govt is now involved and I suspect he will be cleared of any charges whether he is guilty or innocent

Power has a place in Thailand and without it, he would be in jail already

if you think what usa and uk not doing same 'hidden agreements' with another goverments - you dont know real life. also due for economic situation it easy to hire russian/ukrainian pilots without any knowledge what inside this airplane. and not easy to know who is real owner of this weapons. this real things is just hidden from public. it politic, not just common peoples actions.

also is you think because that pilots - all russians is have guilty by default? funny opinion, you just need to understand what here in thailand you treated same as russian - here mostly farangs - but not like 'european country of your citizenship' (but european nations is also same - difference only in money level and goverment who doing everything to separate peoples but forget what all of us living at one planet and same humans).

What about that russian pianist - i not think what him guilty. if here some hidden agreements - him not need to return to thailand for sure. not many peoples can do simular things. at least this make us think what him innocent and him is human of honour - not like most of us.

Edited July 19, 2010 by leoalex

[Jingthing]

If we are talking about the Russian musician, I hope for his sake that he really is innocent and he is justly acquitted. However, don't fool yourself that people won't always wonder what the REAL story was, no matter what the outcome turns out to be. You can't stop that. Sure it might LOOK like honor that he came back, but it can also look like reckless irrationality, or some other story behind the story that we will never know. I acknowledge this isn't at all fair if the real truth is innocence if he was caught in some kind of trap through no fault of his own.

Edited July 19, 2010 by Jingthing

[Travel2003]

No way.

I love this country.

But if i ended up in that situation, I would be out of here ASAP.

I believe this is about our self, as we are today, and not if we are someone more famous or powerful (money and contacts).

I think it is almost funny to see some have actually voted yes.

Meaning they would stay to try to clear their name.