Thaksin Phones In During Pattaya Rally

[Siam Simon]

To think I fell for your posts a while back about the reds in Ratchaprasong.

Where?

[Buchholz]

The army murdered over 90 of them - many millions are left and will never give up.

To think I fell for your posts a while back about the reds in Ratchaprasong.

Where?

Edited September 5, 2010 by Buchholz

[bristolgeoff]

still trying to keep his fingers in the pie.shame he is avoiding his sentence

[alstaxi]

That's a tired and discredited point that apologists for the crimes of the military often trot out.Absurdly,if taken literally, it means that the many civilians murdered by the military somehow got caught in the crossfire as snipers aimed at the militants.What laughable rubbish.

What's more laughable are your feeble attempts as a red propagandist. Any objective observer of the events during the Tai Rouge occupation of Bangkok know that that is exactly what happened.

At any rate, whether you recognise that the unarmed deaths were collateral rather than intentional, the poster has a point about the choices the UDD members made. The occupation was illegal and its leaders promoted violence daily on the stage. That is a matter of abundant public record, so you're calling that appraisal 'rubbsih' won't fly. The physical, social and economic damage the UDD caused amounts to terrorism under their cheerless leader's own definitions as approved by an elected parliament. The government showed admirable restraint in enforcing the law.

One wonders whether someone like this has any limit on the amount of bloodshed he is happy to endorse.Clearly this fellow, to the extent he expresses himself coherently, is at the reactionary end of the spectrum.Even government spokesmen pay lip service to the concept of a rigorous inquiry - not that they are really prepared to commit to one.Historically the Thai army has always covered up its crimes and avoided accountability.Actually in this case I think the army acted reasonably professionally but there's still a need for a proper inquiry

You are on and on about a rigorous inquiry. What good is that going to do we all know that the red shirts tried to burn down Bangkok they tried through violence to get the legal government to resign. They refused to negotiate. They invaded a hospital. Are you absolutely sure you want to know the whole story. Remember they started the lethal violence on April 10 the rest was just a natural result of there reactions. When the inquiry is over and the red shirts are shown for what they are will you go on a crusade to get them to pay the wages for all the people they put out of work will you try to get them to pay for the rebuilding of the damage caused by there arson. When will you red shirts learn you have rights but the right to hold a nation up for your own personnel gain is not one of them and will be stopped by all the legal means at the governments hands.

Or am I reading you wrong and what you want is a rigorous investigation of the people who financed this act of terrorism. If so my apologies but I think that is a investigation you would rather not have.

Well said.

[alstaxi]

Have you ever sent an email to a company and gotten a reply back in seconds, that they have received your letter and its important to them, and then in 2 days an email from them with a totally out to lunch response, based on a few words in your email??? Its from a computer, think some of are falling for one now.

[ratcatcher]

Thaksin is phoning in now because he's worried.

The bleeding of MPs to Pumjaithai, the poor council elections in Bangkok, the dissatisfaction with Payap as leader of the Issan faction where funds failed to reach the destinations,ie MPs, have all weakened Pheua Thai.

And Thaksin knows another violent red protest is the kiss of death for him and his cohorts.

So Yongyut was ordered to propose the 5 point reconcilation plan, a red herring, to make the red shirts\Pheua Thai look conciliatory.

Tomorrow, Pojaman, his so called divorced wife who is supposed to be not interested in politics,will join a meeting of Pheua Thai MPs.

Somchai Wongsawat has already guaranteed continued funds to the MPs.

The Shinawat seniors are back in charge of Pheua Thai with their wallets ready.

Forget any nonsense about it being a party of the people, the elite are back to protect their interests!

This last line says it all.

The elite of the PTP,who accuse the "elite yellow shirts" of holding on to power, are struggling in a last ditch attempt to get their collective snouts back in the trough.

Nothing to do with "Twoo democwacy" as spouted by their evil leader.

[craigt3365]

Thaksin is phoning in now because he's worried.

The bleeding of MPs to Pumjaithai, the poor council elections in Bangkok, the dissatisfaction with Payap as leader of the Issan faction where funds failed to reach the destinations,ie MPs, have all weakened Pheua Thai.

And Thaksin knows another violent red protest is the kiss of death for him and his cohorts.

So Yongyut was ordered to propose the 5 point reconcilation plan, a red herring, to make the red shirts\Pheua Thai look conciliatory.

Tomorrow, Pojaman, his so called divorced wife who is supposed to be not interested in politics,will join a meeting of Pheua Thai MPs.

Somchai Wongsawat has already guaranteed continued funds to the MPs.

The Shinawat seniors are back in charge of Pheua Thai with their wallets ready.

Forget any nonsense about it being a party of the people, the elite are back to protect their interests!

This last line says it all.

The elite of the PTP,who accuse the "elite yellow shirts" of holding on to power, are struggling in a last ditch attempt to get their collective snouts back in the trough.

Nothing to do with "Twoo democwacy" as spouted by their evil leader.

For sure. What is amazing is how many farangs get caught up in this red propaganda...hook, line and sinker...

But to be fair, both sides are trying to keep their snouths in the trough! No different where I come from...

[Insight]

The army murdered over 90 of them - many millions are left and will never give up.

To think I fell for your posts a while back about the reds in Ratchaprasong.

Where?

Seems like an important part of my post has gone missing there, Simon. Haven't read the forum rules for a while, but allow me to post it again:

Another bullshitting pro-red propagandist. That 90-odd figure you are quick to throw around INCLUDES murdered army personnel.

Which reminds me, I need to update my signature.

Have a nice day.

[jayboy]

The UDD incited the violence and destruction beforehand in their speeches. You guys are whining about 90 dead people, yet what these terrorists planned to do (and possibly still plan to do) are far worse. I'd consider the 90 deaths as a preventatitve sacrifice.

If all the posts supporting army violence were as vicious, unfeeling and unthinking as this, there would be no need to undertake the often thankless task of pointing out uncomfortable home truths about the nature of this struggle.The primitive mentality which talks in terms of "whining about the dead" is obviously beyond much help.Though to be fair there are many urban Thais who think like this, who for reasons which are interesting but obviously beyond the understanding of this genius, have hitched their wagon to the that of the elite.

Posted this before but didn't get a response from you, so here it goes again:

Given the numerous amounts of proven propaganda distributed by the red shirts over this period attempting to paint the army negatively - the images taken from a video of the soldiers shot in the south and placed onto a poster stating this is what happens when soldiers refuse to deal with red shirts, the photoshopped photos of the slain protesters, and not to mention the many images of the so called MiB and Chavalit's men armed and wearing army fatigues on a skytrain station - it's the red shirts with a real credibility crisis and the reason many people are taking their claims about the army shooting journalists and nurses with a very large dose of salt.

I did see your rather commonplace response and with respect it just seemed a reworking of the simple minded bar room talk we've heard from you previously.Anyway since you insist:

It's not a matter of Red propaganda (nor for that matter Government propaganda).It's a matter of having a proper transparent and rigorous investigation.However for those like yourself who have mysteriously (and to be frank impossibly) already access to all relevant information and closed already made up minds, I can see why there might be some resistance.A cynic however who understands the record of the Thai military might say the reluctance of some to see a proper investigation simply anticipates an inquiry uncovering repetition of past behaviour. I am genuinely open minded and as previously noted have the impression the security forces acted reasonably and professionally in the circumstances.My wish is to to seek the truth so far as that's possible, and let the cards fall where they may.

Do I have any confidence this will happen? Not really.

[bendejo]

Were they being paid to attend?

Imagine that, concerts where they pay YOU to be there. I've paid to be at a few concerts where I felt them paying me would be more appropriate.

[LikeHeat]

The UDD incited the violence and destruction beforehand in their speeches. You guys are whining about 90 dead people, yet what these terrorists planned to do (and possibly still plan to do) are far worse. I'd consider the 90 deaths as a preventatitve sacrifice.

If all the posts supporting army violence were as vicious, unfeeling and unthinking as this, there would be no need to undertake the often thankless task of pointing out uncomfortable home truths about the nature of this struggle.The primitive mentality which talks in terms of "whining about the dead" is obviously beyond much help.Though to be fair there are many urban Thais who think like this, who for reasons which are interesting but obviously beyond the understanding of this genius, have hitched their wagon to the that of the elite.

Where did you read 'supporting army violence' in the quotes post ? It is indeed an ungrateful task to point out uncomfortable home truths which do not fit in a prejudiced mindset.

Oh wow, what intellectual power and devastating repartee.

When you have some decent points to make - instead of parroting my posts in a mindless schoolyard manner - let's hear them.In the mean time as Mr Attlee once said to one of his irritatingly voluble colleagues, "a period of silence on your part would be most welcome"

And one of my own personal favorites : You should never ask anyone to do something that you are not prepared to do yourself.

[Insight]

If all the posts supporting army violence were as vicious, unfeeling and unthinking as this, there would be no need to undertake the often thankless task of pointing out uncomfortable home truths about the nature of this struggle.The primitive mentality which talks in terms of "whining about the dead" is obviously beyond much help.Though to be fair there are many urban Thais who think like this, who for reasons which are interesting but obviously beyond the understanding of this genius, have hitched their wagon to the that of the elite.

Posted this before but didn't get a response from you, so here it goes again:

Given the numerous amounts of proven propaganda distributed by the red shirts over this period attempting to paint the army negatively - the images taken from a video of the soldiers shot in the south and placed onto a poster stating this is what happens when soldiers refuse to deal with red shirts, the photoshopped photos of the slain protesters, and not to mention the many images of the so called MiB and Chavalit's men armed and wearing army fatigues on a skytrain station - it's the red shirts with a real credibility crisis and the reason many people are taking their claims about the army shooting journalists and nurses with a very large dose of salt.

I did see your rather commonplace response and with respect it just seemed a reworking of the simple minded bar room talk we've heard from you previously.Anyway since you insist:

It's not a matter of Red propaganda (nor for that matter Government propaganda).It's a matter of having a proper transparent and rigorous investigation.However for those like yourself who have mysteriously (and to be frank impossibly) already access to all relevant information and closed already made up minds, I can see why there might be some resistance.A cynic however who understands the record of the Thai military might say the reluctance of some to see a proper investigation simply anticipates an inquiry uncovering repetition of past behaviour. I am genuinely open minded and as previously noted have the impression the security forces acted reasonably and professionally in the circumstances.My wish is to to seek the truth so far as that's possible, and let the cards fall where they may.

Do I have any confidence this will happen? Not really.

"With respect"!?! Frankly I find such padding cringe worthy, specifically coming from a poster whose main line of attack is to belittle the intelligence of every other poster with an opinion that contrasts to his own, yet only not so long ago figured out the basic typing requirement of pressing the space bar after each comma or period.

As for the rest of your predictably pompous and boring response, a UDD supporter (who admittedly makes the odd feeble attempt at sounding balanced, presumably for the sake of posters who see the name "Jayboy" for the first time) asking for a "proper and transparent rigorous investigation" is almost as cringe worthy as the above. You will probably get your enquiry when the public are convinced such atrocities by the military did occur. That just doesn’t seem to be happening, despite the on-going propaganda drive supporting the notion we see around us.

[ToffeEFCpower]

Was the music anygood at the concert

[ToffeEFCpower]

Was the music anygood at the concert:ph34r:

[Lancelot]

...Thaksin phoning in gives a clear message that the red shirts are being manipulated for personal gain.

Of course Thaksin is using the poor; this political conflict is all about who will retain/acquire power in Thailand.

On the other hand, Thaksin did help the poor, even if he was manipulating them. In the US, some dishonest state governors and congressmen are repeatedly returned to power by their constituents because they, the pols, deliver the goodies

[jayjay0]

jayboy You said

" the security forces acted reasonably and professionally in the circumstances.My wish is to to seek the truth"

You have just stated the truth what more do you want? The red shirts atrocities are all ready a matter of record.

[Siam Simon]

Seems like an important part of my post has gone missing there, Simon. Haven't read the forum rules for a while, but allow me to post it again:

Another bullshitting pro-red propagandist. That 90-odd figure you are quick to throw around INCLUDES murdered army personnel.

Which reminds me, I need to update my signature.

Have a nice day.

You didn't answer my question. Where did you fall for TallForeigner's posts about the reds in Ratchprasong?

[Buchholz]

There's a map drawn in Post # 62.

[mintyfresh]

The army murdered over 90 of them - many millions are left and will never give up.

Correction: The army killed over 90 Thaksin backed terrorists who were hel_l bent on torching Bangkok, destroying property, killing others, and in general causing thuggery and mayhem with bombs, guns, and knives. And nobody misses them....

[rubl]

The army murdered over 90 of them - many millions are left and will never give up.

Correction: The army killed over 90 Thaksin backed terrorists who were hel_l bent on torching Bangkok, destroying property, killing others, and in general causing thuggery and mayhem with bombs, guns, and knives. And nobody misses them....

90 were killed in the April - May 2010 period. It started with 25 (including 1 Japanese reporter and 5 soldiers). Most others were killed during the May 13 - 19 cleanup. The torching and looting seems partially planned (K. Arisaman favorite tune 'I burned it my way') and partially because the UDD leaders had loudly indoctrinated their supporters for months (on the main stage and PTV) to not believe the government, sowed fear in their hearts for the army and after declaring to 'fight on till their last drop of blood' simply surrendered.

Gone and no-one in BKK misses them.

[hoaker]

This will never end!!!!

[hammered]

Thaksin is phoning in now because he's worried.

The bleeding of MPs to Pumjaithai, the poor council elections in Bangkok, the dissatisfaction with Payap as leader of the Issan faction where funds failed to reach the destinations,ie MPs, have all weakened Pheua Thai.

And Thaksin knows another violent red protest is the kiss of death for him and his cohorts.

So Yongyut was ordered to propose the 5 point reconcilation plan, a red herring, to make the red shirts\Pheua Thai look conciliatory.

Tomorrow, Pojaman, his so called divorced wife who is supposed to be not interested in politics,will join a meeting of Pheua Thai MPs.

Somchai Wongsawat has already guaranteed continued funds to the MPs.

The Shinawat seniors are back in charge of Pheua Thai with their wallets ready.

Forget any nonsense about it being a party of the people, the elite are back to protect their interests!

Their other worry for the Shin team is that this time there are likely to be a lot more wallets ready and willing to back the organised oppositon to Thaksin's party - the BJT. This could get very expensive and the red rampage that was intended to cow the normal business class into continuing their normal quiet political neutrality may have actually backfired into forcing them to take sides.

Interesting pieces by both Chiang Noi and one on NM recntly that both suggest the Thaksin star could be politically on the wane leaving it to pure fianancial power as to who will win the election.

[sbk]

It seems members can't go a full 6 hours without needing a reminder.

1. DO NOT alter someone else's post in anyway.

2. DO NOT flame, insult or belittle other members

3. DO DROP the propaganda, DO STOP claiming "facts" with no proof.

I don't know how many times I have to tell you people this stuff, you must know it all off by heart by now and yet still you choose to ignore it. I would suggest that is unwise.

[philw]

jayboy You said

" the security forces acted reasonably and professionally in the circumstances.My wish is to to seek the truth"

You have just stated the truth what more do you want? The red shirts atrocities are all ready a matter of record.

To jayjayO

Care to admit the army's atrocities ???

Or do you deny that there were any ?

Edited September 6, 2010 by philw

[Insight]

jayboy You said

" the security forces acted reasonably and professionally in the circumstances.My wish is to to seek the truth"

You have just stated the truth what more do you want? The red shirts atrocities are all ready a matter of record.

To jayjayO

Care to admit the army's atrocities ???

Or do you deny that there were any ?

You prove to us the snipers belonged to the army first.

[philw]

jayboy You said

" the security forces acted reasonably and professionally in the circumstances.My wish is to to seek the truth"

You have just stated the truth what more do you want? The red shirts atrocities are all ready a matter of record.

To jayjayO

Care to admit the army's atrocities ???

Or do you deny that there were any ?

You prove to us the snipers belonged to the army first.

So you therefore accept that they WERE used by the army.

Now it just the debatable differential of who fired first.

Glad to see that you are making progress with your denial.

Who is us ???

Always thought you were a bit of a team.

[brahmburgers]

The army murdered over 90 of them - many millions are left and will never give up.

Another bullshitting pro-red propagandist. That 90-odd figure you are quick to throw around INCLUDES murdered army personnel.

Easy boy.It is a matter of record that many unarmed civilians were shot by the army.The question is how many.However in the tradition of the Thai military covering up their crimes unfortunately it seems unlikely there will ever be a credible or thorough investigation. You can call it bullshitting red propaganda if you like but most reasonable people would just like a proper enquiry.

The Red shirt supporters remind me of the dogs on my rural street. Whenever one starts barking, all the others join in - and each time one chimes in, it barks the same tune.

There are a bunch of inquiries going on. As usual, Thaksin and his Red Problematics are sucking up legal resources like a tornado sucks up plastic bags while going through a trailer park.

To say 90 were murdered by the gov't forces is utter balderdash. You might as well say Mickey Mouse caused the 9-11 attack on NYC. It's just neo red-bailing - with the hope that repeating the same ridiculous crap often enough, that some people (outside the Red minions' camp) will believe it.

[Insight]

So you therefore accept that they WERE used by the army.

Where did I say that? I'm asking you guys to prove to us cynics (of which there are clearly many) to prove the snipers belonged to the army. Scan your eyes past those words again and let me know how you come to the above impression.

Now it just the debatable differential of who fired first.

Glad to see that you are making progress with your denial.

Refer to the above. What denial?

Who is us ???

Are you getting philosophical...?

Always thought you were a bit of a team.

.. Or just plain paranoid?

[Crushdepth]

Me Me Me. It's all about ME.

[rubl]

Me Me Me. It's all about ME.

Poor old K. Thaksin. Imagine just turned 61 and with barely US$ 390 Million left having to work again to earn enough to feed his children. I'm still wondering what some really poor red-shirts think when he says that ?