Pigs 101 (A Start)

[COXYATCITY]

hope i can buy 1 of these boars in a couple of months,but will have to see what happens with the price of pork meat :-(

[revar]

Don't see it in swinethailand website yet but prices seem to be starting to rise slowly with some buyers around here ( I lobied with a lot of small farmers around here not to sell at the 46-48 they offered. Now they offer 50). On rakbankerd site I also see an upward trend. Only 2 weeks until new year. Are they prices going up at your end? Lets share some data. I know the buyers are doing it!

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[MrChangers]

Ok lads,

The other day I received a very nice trotter written letter from the pigs union leader in sty 3. The pigs had been texting each other

and were not happy with the quality of the nosh being provided. I suspect the duck helped him write it as she often likes to stick her

head in for a quick nibble and who can say no to a quick nibble?

I have to admit that after inspecting to piggy poo I was not impressed either. The stools were of the same colour as the feed and

rather soft. I went to a nearby retailer, who contibutes to this knowledge base, purchased some feed and made a 50/50 mix. Reason

being I have noted here a change of feed can lead to the squirts.

In 2 days the stools are once again Paynes grey in colour and firm with slight pellet pressed formation.

Using my skill and judgement in subjects I know nothing about has always been my forte so Prof Nat had a good look at the feed

and on inspection there is a difference visually. Jo-Jo 555 not so uniform in length, grain seems rougher and not such a polished

finish to the exterior than the TFG 414A. Photo is attached for your perusal.

Also there is a differnce in smell, Jo-Jo 555 has been purchased from 2 seperate vendors so I can rule out batch issues. Also I notice

Jo-Jo 555 can produce more dust in the bag BUT, and a very big BUT, I suspect this is down to the handling of a certain vendor who

could be a little more delicate with their wares. I shall be sing the 50/50 mix for a while as I have a quantity of Jo-Jo 555 in store

but will be gradually reducing to 25/75 in TFG 414A favour over the next few days. That said, the world ends on Friday which is a bit

of a bugger as I have plans for the weekend.

So the conclusion from Prof Nats lab is: I will be moving over to TFG 414A from the results of this highly scientific test, added

to the fact that Jo-Jo is very expensive. I am aware that feed is getting expensive and expect cuts could be made to protect companies profits.

As always any comments to this professionally conducted scientific test carried out in the state of the art lab are welcome, but as mentioned above, before close of play Friday!

Nat

[humblefalang]

Mrs Changers

Would youplease give a bit more info on that

TFG 414A

who makes it with no abreviations or thats what it is called (TFG)

haven.t hear of it over my side but always good to know others experience.

even jojo never seen it here,

thanks

[MrChangers]

Mrs Changers

Would youplease give a bit more info on that

TFG 414A

who makes it with no abreviations or thats what it is called (TFG)

haven.t hear of it over my side but always good to know others experience.

even jojo never seen it here,

thanks

HF,

good point! TFG is Thai Food Group.

Nat

[tingtong]

http://www.tfcf.co.th/indexeng.html

we used their fish feed, competitive prices when bought 60 bags a time, with free deliveries to us ( 70kms from their wholesale).

[humblefalang]

Thanks guys

Its more of wanted to know than i i will try it.

i use balance decent price and growth rate give the circumstances.

one again thank you

[revar]

just one thing. With any brand check the expiration date when you buy/use the bags. I found that pig food realy goes bad quickly. You can see green dot and pigs refuse food which is only a week over date.

Ok, two things.

If the feed has to much 'dust' mix it with water. pigs who are used to pellets may refuse the dust because it causes them to caugh. Mix it wirh water and they love it. (but first check that their are no fungi or other bad growth).

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[IsaanAussie]

Do you guys castrate all the boars? If not, do the boars get docked in price or do boars and barrows sell for the same price per kilo?

I’ve just read this thread for first time in weeks. I have the same question as Gary: do you castrate your boars? If yes, taint is never an issue. All my boar piglets were castrated (barrows); never had any problems raising them with gilts right up to market size. I always preferred barrows since they were probably around 20% heavier than gilts of same age so were very much more profitable (before the market collapsed to 3kg pork for 100 baht direct-sale at local markets by my feed producer and the rest who also ran major farms!).

Rgds

Khonwan

Until recently I castrated boar piglets but of late with the future unsure I have left most intact. As I have noted before the meat quality is better from a boar, but as Khonwan notes there is a weight gain penalty.

Gary, it is very hard to sell an intact boar for meat here as most are scared of taint issues.

[tingtong]

sorry IA, i am lost understanding your post a bit, so, pls help out:

Until recently I castrated boar piglets but of late with the future unsure I have left most intact. As I have noted before the meat quality is better from a boar, but as Khonwan notes there is a weight gain penalty.

Gary, it is very hard to sell an intact boar for meat here as most are scared of taint issues.

you say the market is unsure...then to Gary, that it is very hard to sell uncastrated boar...if this is the situation why do you say you have left most your boar intact?

then you say better quality meat from boar, but say most afraid from taint issues. how so it is better quality then?

Khonwan said:

"All my boar piglets were castrated (barrows); never had any problems raising them with gilts right up to market size. I always preferred barrows since they were probably around 20% heavier than gilts of same age so were very much more profitable"

you rafer to Khonwan notes and weight gain penalty, whereas my understanding from Khonwan's note that there is a positive correlation in the favour of barrows vs. guilts.

sorry, once it is not your language, understanding might be an issue. And understanding these above issues are the importance to me, as we are about to pick up our piglets, and looking to the best options for us. Never to late to make final decisions while my money is still in my pocket.

many thanks

tingtong

[IsaanAussie]

OK, barrows grow fastest followed by boars then gilts. But barrows also eat more and can become too fat. If you are not going to breed a boar then it is safer to castrate them as piglets as boars need to be separated from the gilts and barrows at about 4 months or they can cause problems. A group of young boars in one pen can also be an issue if they start to fight. But to me, the best meat comes from a boar. Taint is not a problem if the boar is slaughtered correctly.

Boar piglets or pigs are more difficult to sell because castration is considered a risk by most Thais.

Keeping it simple. If you are growing to grow out piglets then buy gilts and barrows. If you want a boar to breed with then buy one at 40 to 60 kgs as you can get a good look at his potential and still have try to train him some manners.

Does that help?

[tingtong]

thanks IA,

yes, helps, part answered the points.

not yet that why you wish to keep more boars with an unsure market as you said.

with most not wanting to buy boars, and unsure probably means not to speed up on breeding....do you plan to eat more of your boars? or what is the reason behind that decision?

[IsaanAussie]

I sell boars to breeders as well as to restaurants. If I only sold to the local market for meat they would all be castrated. The local prices have been low whereas my market returns have stayed higher. Leaving them intact simply gives me more options and as my numbers are down I have the spare pen space. That simple really.

[tingtong]

that answers it, thanks

[IsaanAussie]

For those who haven't had a look at the prices, there is no good news. The numbers below are 13th Dec provincial numbers that show 55 baht as the yardstick. I expected slightly higher by now and will be watching closely over the next month.

I can remember 5 years ago as we put our planning budget together that at 55 baht we would cover a fully amortised cost base, God how things have changed! Feed prices are 40% higher and my stock numbers are way down.

I don't know about you guys but some big decisions are getting very close for us as we have swallowed enough bitter pills.

Ratchaburi 55.00. (+2).

Nakhon Pathom 55.00. (+2).

Chachoengsao. 54.50. (+0.5).

Chon Buri 54.50. (+0.5).

East. 53.00. (+2.5).

Chiang Mai 65.00. (0).

Sriracha. 54.50. (+0.5).

Surat Thani 54.00. (0).

Songkhla 55.00. (0).

Piglets. 1200.00 + - 51.00.

[COXYATCITY]

For those who haven't had a look at the prices, there is no good news. The numbers below are 13th Dec provincial numbers that show 55 baht as the yardstick. I expected slightly higher by now and will be watching closely over the next month.

I can remember 5 years ago as we put our planning budget together that at 55 baht we would cover a fully amortised cost base, God how things have changed! Feed prices are 40% higher and my stock numbers are way down.

I don't know about you guys but some big decisions are getting very close for us as we have swallowed enough bitter pills.

Ratchaburi 55.00. (+2).

Nakhon Pathom 55.00. (+2).

Chachoengsao. 54.50. (+0.5).

Chon Buri 54.50. (+0.5).

East. 53.00. (+2.5).

Chiang Mai 65.00. (0).

Sriracha. 54.50. (+0.5).

Surat Thani 54.00. (0).

Songkhla 55.00. (0).

Piglets. 1200.00 + - 51.00.

very bad news,as usual of late,i will be in Surin on the 28th only for a few days ,with a trip to Buriram 1 day,and hopefully come to see you and have a chat,NAT(MR CHANGERS ) is welcome to come along if he gets in touch with me.or any other pigsters in the area.

regards IAN.

[MrChangers]

For those who haven't had a look at the prices, there is no good news. The numbers below are 13th Dec provincial numbers that show 55 baht as the yardstick. I expected slightly higher by now and will be watching closely over the next month.

I can remember 5 years ago as we put our planning budget together that at 55 baht we would cover a fully amortised cost base, God how things have changed! Feed prices are 40% higher and my stock numbers are way down.

I don't know about you guys but some big decisions are getting very close for us as we have swallowed enough bitter pills.

Ratchaburi 55.00. (+2).

Nakhon Pathom 55.00. (+2).

Chachoengsao. 54.50. (+0.5).

Chon Buri 54.50. (+0.5).

East. 53.00. (+2.5).

Chiang Mai 65.00. (0).

Sriracha. 54.50. (+0.5).

Surat Thani 54.00. (0).

Songkhla 55.00. (0).

Piglets. 1200.00 + - 51.00.

very bad news,as usual of late,i will be in Surin on the 28th only for a few days ,with a trip to Buriram 1 day,and hopefully come to see you and have a chat,NAT(MR CHANGERS ) is welcome to come along if he gets in touch with me.or any other pigsters in the area.

regards IAN.

Be good to meet you and yes grim news regarding prices. Very grim news.

I shall tough it out and hope for a good price over the next month.

Nat

[MrChangers]

For those who haven't had a look at the prices, there is no good news. The numbers below are 13th Dec provincial numbers that show 55 baht as the yardstick. I expected slightly higher by now and will be watching closely over the next month.

I can remember 5 years ago as we put our planning budget together that at 55 baht we would cover a fully amortised cost base, God how things have changed! Feed prices are 40% higher and my stock numbers are way down.

I don't know about you guys but some big decisions are getting very close for us as we have swallowed enough bitter pills.

Ratchaburi 55.00. (+2).

Nakhon Pathom 55.00. (+2).

Chachoengsao. 54.50. (+0.5).

Chon Buri 54.50. (+0.5).

East. 53.00. (+2.5).

Chiang Mai 65.00. (0).

Sriracha. 54.50. (+0.5).

Surat Thani 54.00. (0).

Songkhla 55.00. (0).

Piglets. 1200.00 + - 51.00.

very bad news,as usual of late,i will be in Surin on the 28th only for a few days ,with a trip to Buriram 1 day,and hopefully come to see you and have a chat,NAT(MR CHANGERS ) is welcome to come along if he gets in touch with me.or any other pigsters in the area.

regards IAN.

Be good to meet you and yes grim news regarding prices. Very grim news.

I shall tough it out and hope for a good price over the next month.

Nat

[COXYATCITY]

For those who haven't had a look at the prices, there is no good news. The numbers below are 13th Dec provincial numbers that show 55 baht as the yardstick. I expected slightly higher by now and will be watching closely over the next month.

I can remember 5 years ago as we put our planning budget together that at 55 baht we would cover a fully amortised cost base, God how things have changed! Feed prices are 40% higher and my stock numbers are way down.

I don't know about you guys but some big decisions are getting very close for us as we have swallowed enough bitter pills.

Ratchaburi 55.00. (+2).

Nakhon Pathom 55.00. (+2).

Chachoengsao. 54.50. (+0.5).

Chon Buri 54.50. (+0.5).

East. 53.00. (+2.5).

Chiang Mai 65.00. (0).

Sriracha. 54.50. (+0.5).

Surat Thani 54.00. (0).

Songkhla 55.00. (0).

Piglets. 1200.00 + - 51.00.

very bad news,as usual of late,i will be in Surin on the 28th only for a few days ,with a trip to Buriram 1 day,and hopefully come to see you and have a chat,NAT(MR CHANGERS ) is welcome to come along if he gets in touch with me.or any other pigsters in the area.

regards IAN.

Be good to meet you and yes grim news regarding prices. Very grim news.

I shall tough it out and hope for a good price over the next month.

Nat

sold some pigs 5 days ago 48 baht,but i had to wait for this guy as well

[CHRISTIANa9]

For those who haven't had a look at the prices, there is no good news. The numbers below are 13th Dec provincial numbers that show 55 baht as the yardstick. I expected slightly higher by now and will be watching closely over the next month.

I can remember 5 years ago as we put our planning budget together that at 55 baht we would cover a fully amortised cost base, God how things have changed! Feed prices are 40% higher and my stock numbers are way down.

I don't know about you guys but some big decisions are getting very close for us as we have swallowed enough bitter pills.

Ratchaburi 55.00. (+2).

Nakhon Pathom 55.00. (+2).

Chachoengsao. 54.50. (+0.5).

Chon Buri 54.50. (+0.5).

East. 53.00. (+2.5).

Chiang Mai 65.00. (0).

Sriracha. 54.50. (+0.5).

Surat Thani 54.00. (0).

Songkhla 55.00. (0).

Piglets. 1200.00 + - 51.00.

Is this a demand and supply problem? Or due to competitive pricing of other meats eg chicken. Cos in Australia pricing of pork is lower than lamb, beef and chicken in this order.

[slapout]

The farmers lot has always been, sell at wholesale, buy at retail price.

But the Thai mark up in CM seems to ignore the old rule of thumb that hog farm price would be multiplied by 2 at the retail level, to the consumer.

We use to figure beef price at 2.2 multiplier, due to greater % loss from live weight to retail outlet.

Lamb not sure as never involved commercially with them, but always more expensive than beef or pork.

Chicken was always the cheapest of the everyday fare of meats.

Granted this does not work for the prime cuts of any livestock, with the exception of chicken, but the prices I see in CM are way more than expected and there is a huge profit being made after the animals leave the farm. When you throw in labor cost, Thailand vs the real world, its easy to see how the CP and like groups have become so wealthy.

The old saying "No one said life would be fair" is all too apparent on the Thai farm scene. Not sure what the 700,000 workers projected to be laid off and will return to the ag sector, with the wage jumpong to 300 baht/day, expect, but I suspect they are going to be disappointed.

[IsaanAussie]

There is some real insight SL,not really at issue. Our farming community cannot afford the 300 baht level for "real workers" let alone what is available here. There are some big changes in store and I fear it is the large agribusiness companies that are the only viable answer. For those of us with limited finances, be preparedto get your hands dirty. For those who have the funds to support family farms, get interested in the returns. To all, find the niche that you can service or get much,much bigger

[DerkMR]

Well, it seems it depends on the area and the job.

I was looking for people to manually dig a new deepest place in one emptied pond which had a rest of water in (due to the bad position of the old deepest place unable to pump further off) and was offering 500 a day because it's really dirty and hard work.

No one was interested.

Bye,

Derk

[humblefalang]

Urgent advice please

one of my sows is 116 days pregnant today 28/12/12

not very experienced i am/nor the missus

have medicine ready to inject to initiate contractions

milk?

full tits but not milking on stimulation

no broken waters yet

sure she is pregnant,

this sow always gives baby on the day number113

round five for her and last.

[IsaanAussie]

Urgent advice please

one of my sows is 116 days pregnant today 28/12/12

not very experienced i am/nor the missus

have medicine ready to inject to initiate contractions

milk?

full tits but not milking on stimulation

no broken waters yet

sure she is pregnant,

this sow always gives baby on the day number113

round five for her and last.

You are as prepared as you need to be, now wait for signs of distress from the sow. If she is eating, drinking and shitting then she is not ready. Have you given her some nest building materials?

[thoongfoned]

Urgent advice please

one of my sows is 116 days pregnant today 28/12/12

not very experienced i am/nor the missus

have medicine ready to inject to initiate contractions

milk?

full tits but not milking on stimulation

no broken waters yet

sure she is pregnant,

this sow always gives baby on the day number113

round five for her and last.

let nature take its course, we have some sows that can be as late as 125- 126. if no milk on stimulation i would say maybe not today. but you can never tell for 100 percent. look for leakage from the virgina. dont know what meds you have put try to hold off until she is at least 75 percent through in labour. when you can see she is "itchy" she would be starting the birthing process, but still this could be some hours off or maybe up to a day.

[IsaanAussie]

Itchy!!! Well you live and learn. I had never thought of it that way, but you are dead right. Thanks!

[Falang Nang Fa]

Who have pigs from around 100 kg.

I need a few for my customers and don't have them from myself that are big enough.

For the people who are intrested, I have young piglets for sale.

[revar]

Swinethailand prices of 28-12.

Ratchaburi 58.00 (+1). Nakhon Pathom 59.00 (+2). Chachoengsao. 58.50 (+2). Chon Buri 58.50 (+2). East. 55.00 (+2). Chiang Mai 65.00 (0). Sriracha. 58.50 (+2). Surat Thani 54.00 (0). Songkhla 55.00 (0).

Prices are slowly rising here now.

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[IsaanAussie]

Who have pigs from around 100 kg.

I need a few for my customers and don't have them from myself that are big enough.

For the people who are intrested, I have young piglets for sale.

Can you be a bit more specific? Based Khon Kaen I think. How many pigs, what breed, size range, and offering price? Same for the piglets would be handy. Could be a deal/swap around which would save on transport costs.