Captiva Or Pajero

[triffid]

I previously had a thead about choosing between Pajero, Suzuki GV and Escape in which MRO, Shipwreck and KBB made very useful comments for which my thanks again. Putting all the info against my needs I ruled out the Suzuki and Ford. I then looked for a car-based suv (vs an adapted pick-up) partly because of stuff I read of a pickup chassis being less safe because it lacked a bonnet and boot that would crumple and partly to get as much quietness and smoothness and and driveablity as I could. I also increased my budget to around 1.3 million.

I test drove the Captiva LTZ yesterday, and liked it a lot. So if I may pick your brains further, what are your comments on choosing from the following ?

1) 3.2 litre Pajero - which I test drove quite like but is noisier and less well equipped than the Captiva LSZ, I think - less around 7k discount

2) Captiva LSX - less a 20k discount

3) Captiva LSZ demo car which has under 7000km on the clock and which I can buy at a 2% discount

All those three would come to around 1.3 million

4) 2.4 litre Pajero - cheaper, presumably quieter but of course not as well equipped - also with around 7k discount

All come with a year's insurance and registration costs.

I have in mind :

= a general comparison of the two models

= value for money

= are both models taxed similarly?

= rate of depreciation (someone posted a photo of the 2011 Captiva - with a radically changed grill, headlamps and foglights - presumably this might affect resale prices)

= is that 20% off on the the LTZ a great deal or just normal depreciation for that suv?

= any other criteria I should be considering

I have started a new thread so as to maybe draw comment from Captiva owners who might possibly have ignored my previous post.

I am hoping to have comments as helpful as before and which will decide the matter over the weekend. Many thanks in advance.

[triffid]

Went again to Chevrolet and need to amend some things in my original post

The discount on the LTZ demo car is 12% not 20% which puts it over my budget and therefore rules it out.

On the other hand the cash discount on a new car is upped to 30k (previously 20K)

I shall try on Monday to get a better discount on the Pajero than the 7k.

Am still hoping for some comments on the Captiva and the comparisons etc from readers here.

[PatLogan]

  Quote

4) 2.4 litre Pajero - cheaper, presumably quieter but of course not as well equipped - also with around 7k discount

If you choose the same version (GT), the equipments on the 2.5 are I think exactly the same, except that the 3.2 has 17" rims while only there are 16" rims on the 2.5 (unless you consider the 4WD to be an equipement )

[MoonRiverOasis]

Pajero Sport is classed as a PPV in Thailand (Passenger Pickup Vehicle) and has a special excise tax of 20%, the Captiva has an excise tax of 30% (35% of you're talking about the LS or LT with the 2.4L benzene engine BTW)

= I read of a pickup chassis being less safe

Old wives tale / Outdated info. Only thing inherently different between a PPV and a softroader is the PPV will have less squeaks and rattles over time, due to less body flex.

= a general comparison of the two models

Both are about the same weight, but Pajero is marginally bigger (20cm longer). 3.2L Pajero has substantially more power/torque than the diesel Captiva, 2.5L Pajero has slightly less power than Captiva, but better torque. 3.2L Pajero is a well-credentialled off-road machine, Captiva and 2.5L Pajero are FWD/RWD respectively. Captiva has ESP, neither Pajero model has this. Captiva has steering wheel audio controls standard, ~4K Baht option on Pajero. Mitsu dealer/servicing network stronger than Chev. Mitsu customer service/general attitude light years ahead of Chev.

= value for money

Best comparison is 2.5L Pajero vs. Captiva LSX. Same feature bundle, similar specs, but Mitsu 250K cheaper.

= are both models taxed similarly?

No. See above.

= rate of depreciation (someone posted a photo of the 2011 Captiva - with a radically changed grill, headlamps and foglights - presumably this might affect resale prices)

Chev will depreciate faster due to poor brand reputation in LOS. Next Captiva release is a minor change. Used values typically drop ~10% on minor/major changes.

= is that 20% off on the the LTZ a great deal or just normal depreciation for that suv?

20% is less than what you'll lose as soon as you turn the key on a Chev

= any other criteria I should be considering

Do you need 4x4? Do you need something bigger, or something smaller? How much does resale value really impact your decision? Which one do you think offers you the best compromise?

The Captiva is a nice looking and nice driving car. The only reasons you don't see more of them on the road is their high price/low resale and poor brand reputation amongst Thais. It's a perfectly capable and well built Daewoo otherwise, and if you were here comparing it to CR-V, Tuscon or Escape, it would be a clear winner IMHO.

[MoonRiverOasis]

  On 10/2/2010 at 9:57 AM, triffid said:

Went again to Chevrolet and need to amend some things in my original post

The discount on the LTZ demo car is 12% not 20% which puts it over my budget and therefore rules it out.

On the other hand the cash discount on a new car is upped to 30k (previously 20K)

I shall try on Monday to get a better discount on the Pajero than the 7k.

Am still hoping for some comments on the Captiva and the comparisons etc from readers here.

There's 70,000 Baht of discount "play" in the Pajero GT - you'll need to squeeze them hard and/or shop outside of CNX to get more than about 30-40K of this though.

[bangsaenguy]

Both these are nice vehicles. I recently went through the same debate. Wasn't easy to decide but eventually bout a 3.2 Pajero because it was RWD.

[triffid]

Is rwd better for off road use or for better handling on normal roads - or both?[

quote name=bangsaenguy' timestamp='1286083685' post='3924861]

Both these are nice vehicles. I recently went through the same debate. Wasn't easy to decide but eventually bout a 3.2 Pajero because it was RWD.

[triffid]

Thanks again everyone.

MRO

= If I understand correctly, you don’t accept that the lack of a crumple zone on the Pajero makes it less safe in a collision?

= Is the 2,5 Pajero adequately powered in your opinion?

= I assume the Captiva LSX is quieter than the 2.5L Pajero?

= I assume that their running costs are similar.

So the choice seems to be between:

Pajero 2.5 GT - at a 15k discount with insurance and the usual extras thrown in (list price 1,097,000

Captiva 2.0 LSX - at a 38k discount with the same ins & extras (list price 1,348,000)

roughly a 220k net difference in purchase price - which I can afford.

Assuming that your driving was 90% on normal roads; space was unimportant; and reliability, driveablity, quietness, running costs all mattered

Which would you buy?

A few supplementary questions that are relevant to me:

= If I was considering a resale in say 3/4 years is the difference in percentage depreciation going to be huge?

= MRO posted a photo of a cable that to work the iPod through the Pajero radio. Where in Chiangmai is this sold?

(The Mitsu man says it will invalidate the warranty on the entertainment system - but I need the connexion, regardless). Captiva comes with the connexion.

= How feasible and costly is it to fit a dvd compatible screen on either vehicle? And/or a navigation system?

[PatLogan]

  On 10/4/2010 at 10:38 AM, triffid said:

= How feasible and costly is it to fit a dvd compatible screen on either vehicle? And/or a navigation system?

Hi Triffid,

Well on the Pajero I am buying it cost me nothing for the screen at the back (part of the freebies I got) and I paid 25K THB for the Alpine integrated Nav system (including one more free display installed in the glove box that the front passenger can hold to watch, or put on the dashboard. I am still to see how it will look like actually, I am a bit worried but it is installed by Mitsu and they gave it as a freebie...

By the way, I did not get ask for discounts, but a lot of free accessories as you can see in my other thread (including the LCD, the rear view cameras...) and the 1.097 MTHB included the insurance. And a 1.4% financing after 25% downpayment. So I suggest you check the list of options I got for free, the financing details, and you go back to Mitsu telling them you can get this in Bangkok, and that Bangkok is only a night away by train...

As for other questions about the choice, well, I can't reply, I was not willing to go much over 1.1M THB, and resale value, space and easy financing were my priorities....

[MoonRiverOasis]

  On 10/4/2010 at 10:38 AM, triffid said:

= If I understand correctly, you don't accept that the lack of a crumple zone on the Pajero makes it less safe in a collision?

What lack of crumple zone? Sorry, I don't mean to be a prick, but there is a crumple zone - ladder frame or monocoque design means nothing on it's own, it's all about the engineering intent (and expertise). Don't let the old wives' convince you otherwise

See for yourself - both scored 4 stars in ANCAP tests:

  On 10/4/2010 at 10:38 AM, triffid said:

= Is the 2,5 Pajero adequately powered in your opinion?

Yes.

  On 10/4/2010 at 10:38 AM, triffid said:

= I assume the Captiva LSX is quieter than the 2.5L Pajero?

Both are diesel, so both will be very similar. Take a test drive

  On 10/4/2010 at 10:38 AM, triffid said:

= I assume that their running costs are similar.

Fair assumption.

[MoonRiverOasis]

  On 10/4/2010 at 10:38 AM, triffid said:

Assuming that your driving was 90% on normal roads; space was unimportant; and reliability, driveablity, quietness, running costs all mattered

Which would you buy?

I bought the Pajero Sport 2.5L GT

  On 10/4/2010 at 10:38 AM, triffid said:

= If I was considering a resale in say 3/4 years is the difference in percentage depreciation going to be huge?

Educated guess: 40-50% depreciation on the Chev after 4 years, vs 30-35% on the Mitsu (from new price respectively). [Edited for clarity]

  On 10/4/2010 at 10:38 AM, triffid said:

= MRO posted a photo of a cable that to work the iPod through the Pajero radio. Where in Chiangmai is this sold?

In Chiangmai, Amnuay Motor Air and Khuangsingha are the big Alpine dealers.

[MoonRiverOasis]

  On 10/4/2010 at 10:38 AM, triffid said:

(The Mitsu man says it will invalidate the warranty on the entertainment system - but I need the connexion, regardless). Captiva comes with the connexion.

They don't understand the question, so that's just a canned response. It's a plug-in adapter that most dealers outside of Chiangmai keep in stock, it will not effect your warranty.

  On 10/4/2010 at 10:38 AM, triffid said:

= How feasible and costly is it to fit a dvd compatible screen on either vehicle? And/or a navigation system?

Quite feasible.

As for navi, many options available - portable from ~8k Baht (name brand), or full integrated from ~16k Baht.

[triffid]

Hi PatLogan

Thanks for your info. Can I clarify some things please?

= The screen in the back can be viewed by passengers not in the front/driver's row - right?

= By "or put on the dashboard" you don't mean using the touch screen already there - right? You mean they stick an ancillary screen somewhere on the dashboard.

= As you say going to Bkk is not a big deal for me. May I know which is your dealer? I might just go there! (I already told them about the Bkk option, but they won't budge)

  On 10/4/2010 at 10:48 AM, PatLogan said:

  On 10/4/2010 at 10:38 AM, triffid said:

= How feasible and costly is it to fit a dvd compatible screen on either vehicle? And/or a navigation system?

Hi Triffid,

Well on the Pajero I am buying it cost me nothing for the screen at the back (part of the freebies I got) and I paid 25K THB for the Alpine integrated Nav system (including one more free display installed in the glove box that the front passenger can hold to watch, or put on the dashboard. I am still to see how it will look like actually, I am a bit worried but it is installed by Mitsu and they gave it as a freebie...

By the way, I did not get ask for discounts, but a lot of free accessories as you can see in my other thread (including the LCD, the rear view cameras...) and the 1.097 MTHB included the insurance. And a 1.4% financing after 25% downpayment. So I suggest you check the list of options I got for free, the financing details, and you go back to Mitsu telling them you can get this in Bangkok, and that Bangkok is only a night away by train...

As for other questions about the choice, well, I can't reply, I was not willing to go much over 1.1M THB, and resale value, space and easy financing were my priorities....

[PatLogan]

Hi Triffid,

See below.

  On 10/4/2010 at 11:15 AM, triffid said:

Hi PatLogan

Thanks for your info. Can I clarify some things please?

= The screen in the back can be viewed by passengers not in the front/driver's row - right? Absolutely, it is fold-able unit fixed on the roof.

= By "or put on the dashboard" you don't mean using the touch screen already there - right? You mean they stick an ancillary screen somewhere on the dashboard. Yes. from my understanding the wiring goes to the glove box and you can then put the unit out to put on the dashboard. I will get the cr normally on Thursday, will take pictures.

= As you say going to Bkk is not a big deal for me. May I know which is your dealer? I might just go there! (I already told them about the Bkk option, but they won't budge) It is the Mitsubishi shop on Sukhumvit 71. The dealer can speak only Thai though, but if you have somebody with you speaking Thai, I will ask my wife for his number.

[PatLogan]

  On 10/4/2010 at 11:12 AM, MoonRiverOasis said:

In Chiangmai, Amnuay Motor Air and Khuangsingha are the big Alpine dealers.

Hi MRO, I am sure it is somewhere in the threads here, but I would appreciate if you could tell me which Alpine suppliers you'd recommend in Bangkok if you know any, and the price you paid for plug-in adapter.

Thanks!

[MoonRiverOasis]

  On 10/4/2010 at 11:26 AM, PatLogan said:

  On 10/4/2010 at 11:12 AM, MoonRiverOasis said:

In Chiangmai, Amnuay Motor Air and Khuangsingha are the big Alpine dealers.

Hi MRO, I am sure it is somewhere in the threads here, but I would appreciate if you could tell me which Alpine suppliers you'd recommend in Bangkok if you know any, and the price you paid for plug-in adapter.

Thanks!

Cheapest price in BKK is from this vendor (1000 Baht):

http://www.pajerospo...hp?topic=1791.0

Possibly also the cheapest price no matter where you are in TH though

The best Alpine dealer in BKK is probably Rocket Sound. They're as good as it gets..

[triffid]

Thanks for, once again, your comprehensive reply.

Given that both Mitsu dealers had no clue about the cable/adaptor - did the shop or the Mitsubishi fit it?

  On 10/4/2010 at 11:13 AM, MoonRiverOasis said:

  On 10/4/2010 at 10:38 AM, triffid said:

(The Mitsu man says it will invalidate the warranty on the entertainment system - but I need the connexion, regardless). Captiva comes with the connexion.

They don't understand the question, so that's just a canned response. It's a plug-in adapter that most dealers outside of Chiangmai keep in stock, it will not effect your warranty.

  On 10/4/2010 at 10:38 AM, triffid said:

= How feasible and costly is it to fit a dvd compatible screen on either vehicle? And/or a navigation system?

Quite feasible.

http://www.thaivisa....ost__p__3796809

As for navi, many options available - portable from ~8k Baht (name brand), or full integrated from ~16k Baht.

[PatLogan]

  On 10/4/2010 at 11:30 AM, MoonRiverOasis said:

Cheapest price in BKK is from this vendor (1000 Baht):

http://www.pajerospo...hp?topic=1791.0

Possibly also the cheapest price no matter where you are in TH though

The best Alpine dealer in BKK is probably Rocket Autosound. They're as good as it gets..

Thanks a lot! . It does not look difficult to install at all (thanks Google translate )

[MoonRiverOasis]

  On 10/4/2010 at 11:34 AM, triffid said:

Thanks for, once again, your comprehensive reply.

Given that both Mitsu dealers had no clue about the cable/adaptor - did the shop or the Mitsubishi fit it?

I fitted mine myself, along with a few other goodies

If you're not up for a DIY, I'd suggest Khuangsingha - those guys do some impressive work (note: maps link is from memory only, may not be exact )

[PatLogan]

  On 10/4/2010 at 11:41 AM, MoonRiverOasis said:

I fitted mine myself, along with a few other goodies

I read this back then, very impressive . I have a WD player I am not using any more, and soon a Pajero 2.5 GT... Hmmm

I honestly think about doing that too, after all I mastered in Electrical Engineering. Problem is I have not touched a soldiering iron for about 20 years now . But i guess it is like a riding a bycicle, I just need to train myself a bit first.

[triffid]

I would be totally incapable of doing any of it myself. So I would go to these people you have recommended - I am in Chiangmai. Assume they can do the whole shooting match - screens and iPod connexion. I congratulate you on the job you did - and as someone else also mentioned I take along your photos to show them the feasibility and standard of finish. Many thanks again.

  On 10/4/2010 at 11:41 AM, MoonRiverOasis said:

  On 10/4/2010 at 11:34 AM, triffid said:

Thanks for, once again, your comprehensive reply.

Given that both Mitsu dealers had no clue about the cable/adaptor - did the shop or the Mitsubishi fit it?

I fitted mine myself, along with a few other goodies

If you're not up for a DIY, I'd suggest Khuangsingha - those guys do some impressive work (note: maps link is from memory only, may not be exact )

[MoonRiverOasis]

  On 10/4/2010 at 11:51 AM, PatLogan said:

But i guess it is like a riding a bycicle, I just need to train myself a bit first.

That's it So long as you still have a steady hand and some patience, you'll probably enjoy having a little project (as I did)

Here's some shots of the USB extension mod I did as well..

[MoonRiverOasis]

  On 10/4/2010 at 11:56 AM, triffid said:

I would be totally incapable of doing any of it myself. So I would go to these people you have recommended - I am in Chiangmai. Assume they can do the whole shooting match - screens and iPod connexion. I congratulate you on the job you did - and as someone else also mentioned I take along your photos to show them the feasibility and standard of finish. Many thanks again.

I'm almost certain that Khuangsingha will be able to do the job - while a lot of the stuff I've seen them do is OTT, they're obviously up and able for the challenge..

[SoloFlyer]

Triff, I'm picking up mine in CM tomorrow. Have asked Amnuay a while back and they have the cable and said they'd look into doing the WDTV - but they are expensive. I drove past Khuansingha on MRO's recommendation but recalled I got some shoddy service person I wasn't happy with years ago.

MRO - love that usb; I'll be going into Amnuay tomorrow for film and want to see what the options are on getting a unit with USB, preferably FLAC support. I suspect the WDTV will be best bet.

[SoloFlyer]

BTW, would an iTouch be as good as anything for a GPS device, given all the other apps you could load on to it?

Pissed about not having a trip function, which i gather you can do on an iTouch.

[PatLogan]

What a nice touch this USB docking system! Love it too!

Honestly, I am afraid of getting into a Pimp my Drive frenzy after getting the car, but the missus will calm me down I guess . She might not appreciate seeing me dismantling the dashboard, so I might wait for a few weeks before doing that. But I am not sure I can wait for trying to trade in the rims and wheels to get something nicer... But I guess the first thing I will have to buy is proper booster seats for the kids. I don't even know if they sell this here, or if I should take back mine from France next time I go there...

About the Ipod touch used for Navi, Soloflyer, it has no built-in GPS, so you need to get a device like the one made by Tomtom. Not sure the maps of Thailand are good though. See here: http://www.tomtom.com/en_gb/products/mobile-navigation/tomtom-car-kit-for-iPod-touch/

TBH, I am not sure it is worth using an Ipod touch for Navi, given the Garmin units go for 10K or below...

Btw, MRO, I remember the main advantage of integrated GPS in EU cars recently made was that even when you were losing the GPS signal (say below a tunnel), the GPS unit was using the on board electronics to still calculate your position on the road you were given the speed you were at. Do you know if it is the case with original Alpine Navi on the Pajero?

[triffid]

Hi PL

And thanks for the clarification.

I'm looking forward to seeing those photos and also getting a number for the bkk dealer.

  On 10/4/2010 at 11:23 AM, PatLogan said:

Hi Triffid,

See below.

  On 10/4/2010 at 11:15 AM, triffid said:

Hi PatLogan

Thanks for your info. Can I clarify some things please?

= The screen in the back can be viewed by passengers not in the front/driver's row - right? Absolutely, it is fold-able unit fixed on the roof.

= By "or put on the dashboard" you don't mean using the touch screen already there - right? You mean they stick an ancillary screen somewhere on the dashboard. Yes. from my understanding the wiring goes to the glove box and you can then put the unit out to put on the dashboard. I will get the cr normally on Thursday, will take pictures.

= As you say going to Bkk is not a big deal for me. May I know which is your dealer? I might just go there! (I already told them about the Bkk option, but they won't budge) It is the Mitsubishi shop on Sukhumvit 71. The dealer can speak only Thai though, but if you have somebody with you speaking Thai, I will ask my wife for his number.

[PatLogan]

Hi Triffid,

The dealer will deliver me the car tomorrow, will get his mobile number then. So for him not to be surprised by the call, I will tell him a friend from ChiangMai will call him cos he is interested in a Pajero GT, and looking for a good deal. If you don't mind, send me a PM with the first name of the person calling, so it will know who it is.

Went to the showroom today, where they are busy installing the options ( films were put on, chrome mirrors too ,et.c etc.). Seems the rear spoiler will arrive only Friday , but I will send the car back to mount it, don't want to wait. The rear seat display will be mounted this afternoon. But I could have a look at what is inside the glove box. And now I get it .

It al l came from me complaining I could not watch the Navi and have at the same time the kids watching videos at the back. Well their solution was simple. Add to the Navi option a portable GPS unit in the glove box so I could choose to use the integrated Navi on the main screen or the portable unit.

Morality, don't count on your missus who has no idea about what all this stuff is about and improve your Thai language skills .

Either way, it fits my needs, so it is ok

See below:

[PatLogan]

Triffid, as promised

The car (still missing the rear spoiler):

The monitor at the back (can see TV or the same screen than in front):

(sorry about the quality, blame the Iphone 3Gs lousy camera...)

The additional GPS (Alpine too):

Well I have a problem though, as Mitsubishi installed the monitor at the back after the Alpine dealer installed the second GPS and not the Navi does not work properly. I went to the Alpine dealer (who is actually only 500 meters from my house) and they will fix that tomorrow morning.

I asked for the price of the Ipod/Iphone cable and she is going to check, but it seems they sell it 1800 THB mounted. I think I will take it from them since they are close from my place, more convenient.

[SoloFlyer]

Those be dam_n dark windows. But looks good.

Alpine Ipod cable i am being quoted here 1500... in CM.