Honda Cbr 250R 2011

[snowflake]

I predict that i will buy a cbr because their dealerships are everywhere- whilst i have yet to see a lean green one here... Red dead vs lean green- win will win? Who is the best? Guess time will tell- but let us agree that both bikes are good, cheap, and both can be fun to ride... Now wait, i have paid for my cbr so all i have to do is to wait.:-):-):-) coming very soon!

[dave_boo]

You keep saying the Kawasaki Ninja 250R is overpriced. What nonsense. I think it's cheap as chips.

You needn't pity the Ninja 250R owners. They paid more and got a better bike. Not that there's anything WRONG with the new Honda CBR250. But there's some truth to the old saying "You get what you pay for".

And please get your facts straight. For 2010 the Ninja 250R sells for 147.5k Baht, not 149k. Unlike Honda Ape with their "recommended retail pricing" which means you have no idea what your dealership might charge, with Team Green there's no need to run around looking for the best price or worry about being cheated because Kawasaki sets the prices, not the dealerships.

Ride On!

Tony

"You keep saying the Kawasaki Ninja 250R is" "a better bike". I'm really interested in how you come to that conclusion having not ridden the CBR 250R yet....

While the saying that "you get what you pay for" is valid, to an extent. There are obviously outliers such as Bose versus other brands etc. The real question that needs to be explored is whether the Ninja offers >30% more 'better-ness' than the CBR.

[taichiplanet]

Don't forget that making something in quantity also helps to lower the price. If Honda are able to make the CBR250 in volumes worldwide of double or triple the Ninja 250 you can still have the same quality but at a lower price.

Anyone in Pattaya been gouged on the price of the CBR250? I would think Mityon are keeping a tight rein here, they own the Kwaka Big Bike shop too. I asked at the friendly shop in Naklua corner of Soi 16/2 (North Pattaya) and they said 100k! i think 950 for rego, but don't know about insurance. You wouldn't get the bike til next year! I didn't go any further as more interested in the ABS version; they didn't know when it was being released.

[nikster]

Yeah well we'll have to wait and see to decide whether the CBR250 got to this low a price because they cut some corners, or because they figured out ways to make it cheaper while keeping up the quality.

I think it's the latter. First off this is Honda we're talking about, they have a certain reputation to uphold - they're not going to produce a bad bike. Second, we already know it's a single cylinder and has 26 hp vs the Ninja's twin/33 - I suspect a lot of the savings come from that alone. Third, the C-ABS is a perfect example of how new technology can make something both cheaper and better than existing solutions. In theory at least - according to Honda's info graphics - the C-ABS is lighter and cheaper than regular ABS, yet works better, too. The pace of innovation in bikes/cars is absolutely glacial compared with, say, electronics but I think we'll see a slight uptick there - C-ABS again is a good example.

[taichiplanet]

I agree. Honda (or Kawasaki) are not gonna make a shoddy bike. They might misread the market, but seems Honda have hit the target with the CBR250; a bike suited to Asia, and commuting/learning world wide. You don't give a 3 year warranty and nationwide road assistance on a piece of c_rap. The bike i test rode was excellent quality.

I still want to know if the 26hp for the CBR250 is at the wheel or crank. I think the Ninja 250 is 33hp at the crank and 26hp at the wheel.

The honda C-ABS adds 4 kgs. Bosch has a system that weighs 1.6 kgs and they reckon can be fitted to most bikes (requiring programming to suit the characteristics of the particular bike model).

The new thai brochure booklet now states the weights as 163 kgs standard and 167 kgs with ABS. It's got fat waiting around to be released!

[bobbin]

And I'm not dissing the Ninja 250 owners. I feel badly for them that Kawasaki sold them an over-priced bike.

And that will cost them money when they resell. They paid almost Bt.50k more than the Honda, and if they want to resell, they will have to under-price the Honda. So maybe a loss of Bt.70K for a 2 year-old bike. Ouch! That's almost 50%.

The above figures are based on the real selling price of the Honda (not present early-purchaser gouging) and the current price of the 250 Ninja (Bt.149K)

You keep saying the Kawasaki Ninja 250R is overpriced. What nonsense. I think it's cheap as chips.

You needn't pity the Ninja 250R owners. They paid more and got a better bike. Not that there's anything WRONG with the new Honda CBR250. But there's some truth to the old saying "You get what you pay for".

And please get your facts straight. For 2010 the Ninja 250R sells for 147.5k Baht, not 149k. Unlike Honda Ape with their "recommended retail pricing" which means you have no idea what your dealership might charge, with Team Green there's no need to run around looking for the best price or worry about being cheated because Kawasaki sets the prices, not the dealerships.

Yes, they did pay more. Did they get a better bike? You don't know, do you?

"You get what you pay for". Keep telling yourself that.

According to that "theory", the Kawasaki has to do everything 30+% better. Ain't gonna happen.

And calling me on a difference of Bt1,500? 1%. What's with that? Pretty lame-ass.

[jackcorbett]

I think it is obvious that it is going to cost less to produce a one cylinder bike than it does a two cylinder bike.

Also....If anyone likes they can Google the Kawasaki Ninja 250 R and look up a number of in depth bike reviews. I've not seen a bad review on this bike yet. All say it's simply outstanding, a great beginners bike that will satisfy the experienced driver and so on.

As for the Honda 250, it's still got 26 horsepower. Compare this to the 17 for the Honda Phantom. Compare it to the 250 Rebel that had been sold in the U.S. and elsewhere for years that produces just 17 horsepower and we are talking about a 53 % increase in power. I think this engine just might be the missing link that Honda's been ignoring for years.

As far as you get what you pay for---oftentimes this is true, but not always. In the early 1980's I bought a BMW R-65 brand spanking new and that bike did everything well from cross country touring to city driving. A couple of my friends had bought used 1000 c.c. BMW touring bikes--top of the line then retailing for $6000. I bought my R-65 for around $3400. About the only thing wrong with the R-65 is although it was absolutely smooth up to 58 miles per hour, after that there was a vibration zone up to 70 miles an hour, and then it was completely smooth with no vibration whatsoever. Then the US had a speed limit of 55 miles an hour. So I'd take her to 5000 rpms and beyond but I also found it to be completely necessary to have a radar detector. 650's are not supposed to be cross country tourers. They are too small they say. One needs 1000 c c BMWs for that, Honda Gold Wings, and Big Harleys. Yet, I once drove 500 miles in one day from St. Louis to Door County Peninsula in Wisconsin with my girlfriend on the back and I was completely comfortable all the way and was not tired one iota when I got to my destination. This bike was even better than its larger BMW brothers as it had a shorter wheel base, was lighter and it handled better. Unfortunately I sold the bike, but a few years later I got the BMW K 100 RS, a four cylinder twin that didn't even hit its stride until it hit 80 miles an hour. I could cruise 90 to 100 miles per hour no problem and beat about anything on the road. However, as wonderful as this bike was it always had a high speed vibration tingle in the bars so I"d want to get off for a few minutes after driving it 100 miles or so. So which was the better bike? The K-100 RS sold new for $7000 while the R-65 had sold for half that price. And the K-100 RS felt top heavy in heavy city traffic and was not good at all at slow speeds due to its narrow handle bars and other considerations.

There is also the question of the quality of the horsepower. There are simply some engines that have been built that exceed all expectations for it. Just one example was my last pickup truck..a 1997 four wheel drive Dodge Dakota short bed sport model with a club cab capable of taking 4 passengers. Mine had the latest and greatest overdrive automatic and a 318 short block fuel injected engine producing 230 horsepower which was the smallest V-8 Dodge offered back then. I actually had it up to 110 miles and I was still accelerating when I had to back off. That's a lot of weight and wind resistance for a 318 to be hauling around as to start with 4 wheel drives are significantly heavier than 2 wheel drive trucks. Well, my first pickup truck had been a 1978 Dodge three quarter ton so that's 21 years between my first and last pickup truck and both had the 318 engine. It's no wonder Chrysler sold that engine for many years. (the truck was also stone reliable for over 100,000 miles when I sold it.). Chrysler also produced a 360 cubic inch V-8 for many years and way back in the days of dinosaurs a 383. For a few years My Dad had been buying 283 cubic inch Chevrolet Impalas with two speed power glide automatic transmissions. They'd to around 110 miles an hour and never get more than 14 miles per gallon. Then he upscaled to a larger, prettier Chrysler Newport with a 383 two barreled carburetor. That car would do 120 miles an hour and get 20 miles to the gallon while offering superior handling in a bigger car. Later my Dad got a Chrysler with a 360 in it and it wouldn't come close to 120 miles an hour and it would only get 16 to 17 miles per gallon. Back then, a 383 with a two barrel couldn't do 120 miles an hour especially in that big of a car and it most certainly could not beat Chevrolet's much smaller V-8 by 6 miles per gallon, but it did.

But back to bikes.......the Ninja 250 R has been around for many years. It produces its power at high rpms. But I'm betting its a very reliable engine---otherwise Kawasaki would not still be making it. That being said, if I were to bet I'd say that the new Honda 250 CBR will like that 1997 Dodge of mine exceed expectations for its level of power and as for "You always get what you pay for" I think that 650 BMW R-65 was just too good of a machine and that's why BMW discontinued it. At $3400 BMW simply didn't have the profit margin it wanted so they axed the best German bike of its era. And I think Honda, Yamaha and most of the other Japanese companies have been offering bikes most people don't really want or need in their unrelenting search for bigger and bigger profit margins while creating an artificial demand for higher and higher performance bikes or bigger and plusher cruisers as an excuse to push their prices through the stratosphere. One more note.....I wrote above, "German machine of its era" on purpose. When I still had my R-65 a friend of mine had bought a 500 Kawasaki Ninja which I drove for 20 miles or so, and it was the most fun, best handling bike I had ever been on. I suppose that's why they are still selling it in the guise of its newer improved siblings.

[JonnyF]

And I'm not dissing the Ninja 250 owners. I feel badly for them that Kawasaki sold them an over-priced bike.

And that will cost them money when they resell. They paid almost Bt.50k more than the Honda, and if they want to resell, they will have to under-price the Honda. So maybe a loss of Bt.70K for a 2 year-old bike. Ouch! That's almost 50%.

The above figures are based on the real selling price of the Honda (not present early-purchaser gouging) and the current price of the 250 Ninja (Bt.149K)

You keep saying the Kawasaki Ninja 250R is overpriced. What nonsense. I think it's cheap as chips.

You needn't pity the Ninja 250R owners. They paid more and got a better bike. Not that there's anything WRONG with the new Honda CBR250. But there's some truth to the old saying "You get what you pay for".

And please get your facts straight. For 2010 the Ninja 250R sells for 147.5k Baht, not 149k. Unlike Honda Ape with their "recommended retail pricing" which means you have no idea what your dealership might charge, with Team Green there's no need to run around looking for the best price or worry about being cheated because Kawasaki sets the prices, not the dealerships.

Yes, they did pay more. Did they get a better bike? You don't know, do you?

"You get what you pay for". Keep telling yourself that.

According to that "theory", the Kawasaki has to do everything 30+% better. Ain't gonna happen.

And calling me on a difference of Bt1,500? 1%. What's with that? Pretty lame-ass.

Bobbin, seriously.. using that logic you'll be looking to see if the CBR250 does everything (top speed/acceleration/desirability) 30% better than the CBR150 before buying. I'll give you a clue - it doesn't! Does the CBR150 do everything 90 % (or whatever %) better than a Honda Wave? errrm

Some people want a 250 and buy the one they like the most. We don't all sit down with a calculator and work out whether the % difference in price is equal to the % difference in acceleration/top speed/desirability, thankfully

Anyway, I'm heading out to get some new tyres for the KSR. Remind me to check if the Pirelli's are 300% grippier than stock or I might have to change my plans

[dave_boo]

Bobbin, seriously.. using that logic you'll be looking to see if the CBR250 does everything (top speed/acceleration/desirability) 30% better than the CBR150 before buying. I'll give you a clue - it doesn't! Does the CBR150 do everything 90 % (or whatever %) better than a Honda Wave? errrm

Some people want a 250 and buy the one they like the most. We don't all sit down with a calculator and work out whether the % difference in price is equal to the % difference in acceleration/top speed/desirability, thankfully

Anyway, I'm heading out to get some new tyres for the KSR. Remind me to check if the Pirelli's are 300% grippier than stock or I might have to change my plans

From my reading of bobbin's post he was mocking (too strong a word?) another poster's assertion that "you get what you pay for". That phrase means to most people that the added value of whatever you are purchasing is equivalent to the added price.

BTW, Pirelli Supercorsas appear to me to be at least that much better than the stockers on the Ninja 250R....

[snorkelador]

Just a little correction on the topic of the Kawasaki 250R being about 30% more expensive than the Honda CBR250i.

According to www.motorcycle.in.th the SRP of the Kawa is 147,500.- THB, which is about 47% more than the Honda at a SRP of 100,500.- THB. So it would need to be almost 50% worth more to the buyer, for whatever reason, in order to justify it's price. Easily done when you want to be different or have a very strong feeling for a certain brand. In this case, you might find it easy to find any reason under the sun, to defend your favorite brand and most of us are a bit guilty of that. With some people however, it almost seems to become pathological...

Anyway, compared to the Kawasaki 250R however, the CBR250i is almost 32% cheaper.

[mbox]

I really like these price discussions.

I have a Tiger Retro 110C which has 110cc ,single cyl, 4 stroke , carbed, and it cost 30000 thb if i buy 3 of them and "connect " them i will have a triple with 330cc for just 90000 thb - hell that would be something

i like to see a bike in the priceclass of the cbr250 - ninja250 with a triple ,naked and abs as extra ....maybe triumph could come up with that since they are the triple specialists ....and i want the KTM duke 200 too within that cbr250-ninja 250 pricerange . That would give some more choices to us .And more choices is a good thing.

happy trails,

mbox

[appropriate]

"...with Team Green there's no need to run around looking for the best price or worry about being cheated because Kawasaki sets the prices, not the dealerships." BigBikeBKK

Yeah, coz you can't even go to the dealers to get one.

Anyone buying the soon to be 3 yr old ninja on the classifieds today? comes with nice scratches and no warranty. PRICE: 100,000 BHT (price is not negotiable)

Or 10k (or less) more and a brand spanking new CBR 250 with 3 yr warranty and no scratches, tax and reg paid.... Hmmmmmm.

[appropriate]

You keep saying the Kawasaki Ninja 250R is overpriced. What nonsense. I think it's cheap as chips.

It may well be cheap as chips, but relative to the better respected brand competition, it's 47% more expensive. It is all relative.

You needn't pity the Ninja 250R owners. They paid more and got a better bike.

Actually there is no 'better bike' universally speaking. As it's relative to each individual.

For me, I didn't go for the ninja as it's dead before 9,000rpm. That for me is disgraceful, in a bike I'll use everyday, under 9,000rpm for the most part.

Cheers chaps.

[PolPat]

"...with Team Green there's no need to run around looking for the best price or worry about being cheated because Kawasaki sets the prices, not the dealerships." BigBikeBKK

Yeah, coz you can't even go to the dealers to get one.

Anyone buying the soon to be 3 yr old ninja on the classifieds today? comes with nice scratches and no warranty. PRICE: 100,000 BHT (price is not negotiable)

Or 10k (or less) more and a brand spanking new CBR 250 with 3 yr warranty and no scratches, tax and reg paid.... Hmmmmmm.

Saw a second hand 250R at Mytion Pattaya for 80K 8,000 Kilometers last week.

[appropriate]

Poor bastards, having to take a virtual 50% hit on a 2 yr old bike.

[Just1Voice]

Resale Value:

I bought the last of the old models, a black one. Paid 68k for it. Almost 18 months to the day, I sold it to one of my wife's relatives for 55,000 cash. That's 80% of what I paid for it 18 months earlier. In other words, I paid 722 baht a month for "renting" it. Not including gas, of course.

Try getting an 80% return on a Ninjette after 18 months and see what happens.

[mcgriffith]

I saw the new 2011 CBR 250R today when I went to Nat Honda here in Chiang Mai to renew my insurance for my CBR150.

Was a silver/red (not maroon, to my eye anyway) and was fully dealer-prepped and waiting for pickup by the buyer late afternoon around 4 PM.

Chatted with the owner about it. Said I was interested- how much?

He told me the bike we were standing next to had been sold for 115,500 THB. This was a non-ABS model.

He said the ABS model would be available late Jan/early Feb 2011, and would retail for 15,000 THB more than the base model.

I reiterated and clarified a few times with him that (his price, anyway) would be:

non-ABS: 115,500

ABS: ~130,000

Sorry I didn't take a snap, I was rushing to complete the expiring insurance thing.....

[bobbin]

Here is what I wrote Aug. 30 2008 re the Ninja 250...

Before we get too much further into the thread I would just like to say that the only negative about the Ninja 250 for me is it's price.

If it had come priced in the 100-110K range i would be down there ordering one tommorow! That is figuring up from 63-65K for the Cbr 150 and 85K for the Phantom.

At least I'm consistent.

In looking for that quote in a Ninja 250 thread, I had to go back 8 pages. Been awhile since anyone had something to say about the Ninja 250.....

I also notice that BBBkk aka Tony, made about half of the posts in that 26 page thread. So he is just going to ignore what doesn't fit in his world-view. At least until it's staring him in the face...

Let's all hope for an early comparison of the two bikes so we can put this performance issue to bed.

As for the price issue, well that's done and dusted and the clear winner is Honda.....and me.

[visions]

This evening I visited a local fair /market and a Honda dealer had a 250 (red) and 150 (Black) on display. I asked the price of the 250 and was told 120,000. I commented that that wasnt correct for the std model. The sales staff were adament that the bike they had there, had C-ABS ......which is priced at 120,000. But clearly it wasnt the ABS model at all. I left with the sales staff still claiming it definately had ABS. No way would I buy from that dealer!!

[JonnyF]

Here is what I wrote Aug. 30 2008 re the Ninja 250...

Before we get too much further into the thread I would just like to say that the only negative about the Ninja 250 for me is it's price.

If it had come priced in the 100-110K range i would be down there ordering one tommorow! That is figuring up from 63-65K for the Cbr 150 and 85K for the Phantom.

At least I'm consistent.

In looking for that quote in a Ninja 250 thread, I had to go back 8 pages. Been awhile since anyone had something to say about the Ninja 250.....

I also notice that BBBkk aka Tony, made about half of the posts in that 26 page thread. So he is just going to ignore what doesn't fit in his world-view. At least until it's staring him in the face...

Let's all hope for an early comparison of the two bikes so we can put this performance issue to bed.

As for the price issue, well that's done and dusted and the clear winner is Honda.....and me.

So have you bought it yet? Or have you been too busy digging up 2 year old posts? Or still working out whether the taxi to the dealer will be 800% better than the baht bus?

I look forward to your ride report.

[johnboy3739w]

in mytion today (Pattaya, South Road) - sales lady gave me a brochure and said 100,000 - but have to wait 7-10 days for actual bike................

[mcgriffith]

One other comment on the new 250.

The owner offered me to sit on the bike; I didn't. Out of deference to the buyer.

But I picked it up off the side stand and shook it back and forth a few times, pushed on the front forks a bit. It's obviously a bit heavier, with a slightly higher center of gravity than my old 2007 CBR150. The new plastics are way wider than the old model. Seat height a bit higher as well.

All in all it looked sweet.

Think I'll wait till January and pull the trigger on an ABS model.

One other aside- my dealer said they were just starting production, and as they are being exported (according to him) to various export markets.....availability here may become tight....

(Hey, I used to work in a Ducati Aprilia Moto Guzzi dealership....this is called creating perceived scarcity).

[tomartoh]

Seen what I think is the highest price for a CBR250R today.

On show in Krabi was a red ABS model for 139K bahts. !

The girl did give me a nice smile when she told me and went and told the boss when i told her 115k on the internet but he didnt smile at me.

So I just said no thanks I buy in Bangkok too expensive Krabi

[bobbin]

Another point....

Mityon Pattaya is willing to give me Bt.19,000 in trade against either the Cbr150 or Cbr250. They put the offer in writing.

I bought the bike, first year in the model series, in Dec. 2002. Let's do the math...

I paid Bt. 65,000. Less trade-in value of Bt.19,000 = Bt.46,000.

Divided by 96 months. That's a monthly cost of Bt. 479.16.

Now let's do the Ninja250, shall we? In this calculation, the numbers will be approximate..

Purchase price Bt 147,500. (This is for you Tony)

Sell after 24 months for Bt.80,000. There is such a report further up the thread. But we'll do it at Bt100,000 as well, since that's what one poor fellow in the classifieds wants. And he won't negotiate...yet.

Bt.147,500 less Bt80,000 = Bt.67,500 /24 months = Bt.2812.50 per month.

Bt.147,500 less Bt.100,000=Bt.47,500/24 months = Bt.1979.16 per month. But there won't be many resold at that price.

[bobbin]

Here is what I wrote Aug. 30 2008 re the Ninja 250...

Before we get too much further into the thread I would just like to say that the only negative about the Ninja 250 for me is it's price.

If it had come priced in the 100-110K range i would be down there ordering one tommorow! That is figuring up from 63-65K for the Cbr 150 and 85K for the Phantom.

At least I'm consistent.

In looking for that quote in a Ninja 250 thread, I had to go back 8 pages. Been awhile since anyone had something to say about the Ninja 250.....

I also notice that BBBkk aka Tony, made about half of the posts in that 26 page thread. So he is just going to ignore what doesn't fit in his world-view. At least until it's staring him in the face...

Let's all hope for an early comparison of the two bikes so we can put this performance issue to bed.

As for the price issue, well that's done and dusted and the clear winner is Honda.....and me.

So have you bought it yet? Or have you been too busy digging up 2 year old posts? Or still working out whether the taxi to the dealer will be 800% better than the baht bus?

I look forward to your ride report.

Why would I take a taxi?

[appropriate]

So anyway, here's some Battlax BT 090, size front: 110/70/17 rear: 150/60/17. Price: 7,800b.

[JUDAS]

XXX Baht per month sure kills the passion for bikes....

[appropriate]

All white, gentlemen?

[BigBikeBKK]

Here is what I wrote Aug. 30 2008 re the Ninja 250...

Before we get too much further into the thread I would just like to say that the only negative about the Ninja 250 for me is it's price.

If it had come priced in the 100-110K range i would be down there ordering one tommorow! That is figuring up from 63-65K for the Cbr 150 and 85K for the Phantom.

At least I'm consistent.

In looking for that quote in a Ninja 250 thread, I had to go back 8 pages. Been awhile since anyone had something to say about the Ninja 250.....

I also notice that BBBkk aka Tony, made about half of the posts in that 26 page thread. So he is just going to ignore what doesn't fit in his world-view. At least until it's staring him in the face...

Let's all hope for an early comparison of the two bikes so we can put this performance issue to bed.

As for the price issue, well that's done and dusted and the clear winner is Honda.....and me.

Yes, you are consistent about one thing- being a cheap skate. Back in 2008 when you wrote that post complaining that you couldn't afford the new Ninjette the Ninja 250R was the only 250cc bike available in Thailand. (I don't think the Tiger Boxer 250 was available yet?) Kawasaki could have charged a lot more since they had the 250cc market all to themselves but they released the bike for only 132k Baht back in 2008. Price has gone up a bit in the last two years but it's still a cheap bike. The new Honda is a cheaper 250cc bike. AFAIK the Tiger Boxer 250RS is the cheapest 250cc bike in Thailand.

FWIW- I sold my Ninja 250R when the ER6n became available at the end of 2008. I think a lot of other Ninjette owners did the same and I suspect that's why that thread has gone quiet.

So Bobbin, since you seem to be such a cheap charlie and spend so much time complaining that the Ninja 250 is too expensive for you, why aren't you complaining that the CBR 250 is overpriced compared to the Tiger Boxer 250? Just wonderin...

Ride On!

Tony

[wjmark]

.

Well, I guess it's me!

I just put 100km on my new CBR250. Picked it up at 7:30pm (with 45lb tire pressure - changed that quickly!). Couldn't get it earlier as they wanted it for display. I'm off to Canada on Monday, so I am going to let them have it back for 2 weeks of display.

What can I say. It is a bit bigger, a bit heavier, and clearly faster than the old 150. Also the seat seems a bit higher (but that might be the shock set on full). I haven't really cranked it open yet - think I'll follow Honda's advice and give it 500km of easy riding. Hope to have that under my belt by tomorrow evening.

Nice to have the bigger tires - corners so easily and confidently. Comfortable too. The riding position is virtually the same as the old 150...

No real surprises to this bike, except it seems to be pretty noisy at idle - lots of mechanical bits doing their thing. What else? There is a tickling kinda buzz to the inside of my legs from some gas tank vibration - no big deal. Don't feel that vibration in the hands.

I don't think it is going to be super fast - but nice torque, and I bet it does a tonne.

Also feel that the speedo is accurate, as opposed to the 10+% optimism of the old 150. Headlights are way better - can actually see at night in the mountains. Someone reported that the kickstand is in a stupid place - indeed it is...

Light, quick, stable, and minimal learning curve coming from the 150 - feels like what I wanted and expected.

Think I'll give it a few thousand kms before I look into any mods...

What was nice was I had never seen one or sat on one, and I came in this evening, started it up and rode away!

Oh - it's red. And no ABS.