German Arrested + Deported

[monitorlizard]

I just found out that a man from Germany who did side work as a computer repairman who caught by police. He spent 1 day in jail. He paid 200,000 baht fine to get out. Once out he was deported out of Thailand. He received a stamp in passport indicating deportation. I need to check on the details but I believe it was for 10 years.

Times are a changing..... I think people ought to be very careful working without a WP. I imagine that other people are turning them in especially if it is a job that a Thai can do. I don't know all the details about how this German national was caught but the circumstances are very true! This is by no means a rumor.

I think people should be warned about working without a WP. The consequences are very severe.

Maybe Thaivisa should send out a warning again to members?

[Indo-Siam]

Hi ML -

I'd be very interested to learn the details - the really fine details. Particularly:

Exactly what sort of police arrested him? In what jurisdiction?

What sort of visa and entry permit did he have? How many days validity were still remaining on his entry permit?

Did he have a valid work permit for other work?

What sort of computers in what sort of a business? (No surprise if he was fixing computers for an illegal outbound VOIP calling card operation that got busted, or similar).

I would be totally amazed if an otherwise fully legal guy doing nothing but helping a neighbor replace a hard drive for 500 baht was arrested and deported just for that.

Cheers!

Indo-Siam

[CMexpat]

monitorlizard, I agree with you that people should be warned. Some have no idea how thin the ice is they are walking on. Some could be competing with a local that lives just a "few doors away".

However the last I want to create here is a panic. Just play it by the book as best as you can and when in doubt check with the labour department.

[monitorlizard]

IT wrote

What sort of computers in what sort of a business? (No surprise if he was fixing computers for an illegal outbound VOIP calling card operation that got busted, or similar).

Can you translate the above into plain English because I have no idea what a VOIP calling card operation is....

Anyway, I will find out the other information for you. My friend who knows him personally told me today. I didn't think of asking him for details but if I were to guess I got the impression that he was operating a business and was repairing computers for businesses. This happened in Bangkok. I agree with you that doing work for friends is not much of a concern here. As soon as I find out more I will pass on the information to you.

[married2surin]

VOIP stands for Voice Over Internet Protocol.

It's a common method used to truncate/compress multiple telephone calls down to the same bandwidth used by 1 single line, and then push it over the internet..... this is how most of the cheap calling cards can charge such little money for their calling cards....

It is also when the call quality is not normally as good as a regular telephone company, as you are sharing that one line with 5 or 10 or 20 telephone calls.

Is that non techie enough for you ?

Cheers

Mike

[Kan Win]

IT wrote

What sort of computers in what sort of a business? (No surprise if he was fixing computers for an illegal outbound VOIP calling card operation that got busted, or similar).

M.L. wrote:-

Can you translate the above into plain English because I have no idea what a VOIP calling card operation is....

Me think IT did not quote this as you mentioned.

Anyway, Kan I have a guess ????????

Voice Over IP and IP Telephony:

http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/I/Internet_telephony.html

P.S.

And if I am wong, then, that is why there are very few Telephony in China, as there are to many Wings and too many Wongs someone might wing the wong number

[Kan Win]

VOIP stands for Voice Over Internet Protocol.

It's a common method used to truncate/compress multiple telephone calls down to the same bandwidth used by 1 single line, and then push it over the internet..... this is how most of the cheap calling cards can charge such little money for their calling cards....

It is also when the call quality is not normally as good as a regular telephone company, as you are sharing that one line with 5 or 10 or 20 telephone calls.

Is that non techie enough for you ?

Cheers

Mike

Mike,

You beat me to it.

Nice one

[Guest IT Manager]

And yes IT only just arrived. But I would have asked the same questions, so they remain as if from me as well.

IT

[george]

Related topic:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=3959

[homeless007]

There seems to be a lot of exageration in this respect. A friend of mine with a middle sized factory in the boating industry got caught recently by the police, even had another foreigner actually handson working there at the time and got away with 10K. "teamoney" and has been working eversince without wp. or hassles....

[monitorlizard]

I am sure this brings comfort to the German freezing right now in his home country. Why take the chance?

Basically the foreigners who are working without a WP are NOT paying tax. The company may collect it but they certainly are not sending it to government. It is obivious that the government needs to increase their revenues to pay for all the social programs (30 baht healthcare, million baht village fund, etc). Can you blame them for cracking down on tax cheats?

I think it is an error in judgement to say that because one person paid tea money and got away with it means that everone can do the same.

This is the same reasoning people use when they are smoking grass down at the southern beaches. I am sure they are kicking themselves in the axse every night for listening to such bad advise when they bed down every night at the Bangkok Hilton.

[chaamjamal]

university in thailand sends me job offer along with a bunch of paperwork in thai. i take the lot and my passport to the thai embassy and they issue me a multiple entry and renewable non-b visa. i come to thailand to work for the university. do i need yet another document called a 'work permit' or is the non-b visa sufficient?

thanks in advance

jamal

[caughtintheact]

Wondering if there is any possibility that this German guy was ripping off his customers to make them mad enough to turn him in? I know someone like that.

[TizMe]

Unfortunately you don't need to be rippin off your customers for one of them to take a disliking to you and then turn you in to the authorities.

[Indo-Siam]

Jamal -

Yes, you need a work permit - and a personal income tax registration card.

Concerning "turning someone in to the authorities" - I doubt that one farang in 1,000 in Thailand (and most run of the mill Thais as well) would have the first clue about how to effectively get any "Thai authorirties" interested in most trivial adminstrative violations (not to be confused with violent crimes, or theft, or boiler room operations).

I am talking about figuring out which phone number to call, or what office to visit to press a complaint. If anyone thinks complaining about a work permit violation to to a tourist policeman, or a street traffic cop, or a Police Station desk sergeant would generate a response - you are mistaken.

Thus - I chalk 95% of such reports up as urban legend, or someone's fabrication being repeated by others as reality.

Now - if you finger a farang for some non-trivial law violation that is within the normal jurisdiction of the above types of police, they might very well add a work permit violation to a list of "crimes" that they are compiling against a troublemaker - I could easily believe this. I.e. once they have been moved to take formal action against a farang (which does not happen so very easily), I suspect that in the course of their investigation, they will not hesitate to add to the charges every additional discrepancy they find as part of doing a thorough investigation.

Indo-Siam

[T0MY]

that's why its nice not to work in thailand, to hot to work, just relax and ask the maid to bring you coconut drink

[xxxarte]

I own 10 apartments that I rent out for long term contract 6 month 1 year, not like an hotel.

Does I need a work permit?

Does I need to have a company or paying my incoming tax is enought?

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I own 10 apartments that I rent out for long term contract 6 month 1 year, not like an hotel.

Does I need a work permit?

Does I need to have a company or paying my incoming tax is enought?

Do you really OWN them ? You need immediate and urgent advice. Talk to Indo-Siam or Sunbelt. Today would be a good time to start.

[monitorlizard]

QUOTE (xxxarte @ Wed 2003-12-03, 00:48:32)

I own 10 apartments that I rent out for long term contract 6 month 1 year, not like an hotel.

Does I need a work permit?

Does I need to have a company or paying my incoming tax is enought? 

Do you really OWN them ? You need immediate and urgent advice. Talk to Indo-Siam or Sunbelt. Today would be a good time to start.

Talk? I would run over to their office!

[Sunbelt Asia]

Does I need a work permit?

Owning condos in Thailand can be legal.

If you are collecting the funds and signing the leases, you need a work permit.

However, if you have management firms, sign the lease, collect the funds, pay the taxes and they manage the condos. (You yourself have no involvement in managing the condos.) Then you are not doing any work. You want to be iron clad your overseas company issues an invoice to the management firm and sends the funds to your firm overseas.

Yes we do management of condos for some clients.

[zakk9]

I don't understand this discussion. As in most countries, working in Thailand is illegal for a foreigner if you don't have a work permit. If you get caught without one, there's a chance that you will be thrown out, after the guys have emptied your pockets.

Getting a work permit is a bit complicated, but it's even more difficult for Thais wanting to work in a couple of European countries I know about, so that's only fair, isn't it.

Most people wanting to run a serious business in this country (serious = employing a lot of Thais, paying tax, supplying relevant knowledge, attracting rich tourists to the country or anything else that will strengthen the Thai economy short or long term. No, opening another bar i Pattaya will not attract more tourists) can get a WP with the help of a lawyer or another competent person.

Should we feel sorry for those who break the rules and make life even more complicated for those who try to follow them? No! Not at all. If they think it's to cold in Germany or Siberia or wherever they came from, they should have thoght about that before they started working.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I just found out that a man from Germany who did side work as a computer repairman who caught by police. He spent 1 day in jail. He paid 200,000 baht fine to get out. Once out he was deported out of Thailand. He received a stamp in passport indicating deportation. I need to check on the details but I believe it was for 10 years.

Times are a changing..... I think people ought to be very careful working without a WP. I imagine that other people are turning them in especially if it is a job that a Thai can do. I don't know all the details about how this German national was caught but the circumstances are very true! This is by no means a rumor.

I think people should be warned about working without a WP. The consequences are very severe.

Maybe Thaivisa should send out a warning again to members?

I'm with Indo-Siam. There is more to this than meets the eye. Generally speaking, the listing on the Persona Non Grata list is for way in excess of 10 years too. His fine was out of the ordinary too.

[Sunbelt Asia]

The Boiler room boy several years back, were fined 5,000 Baht and deported. They were put on the Persona Non Grata list.

Is this typical for not working without a permit or simply they were in the headlines?

[mraloha]

can you get busted if you help a friend move to a new house?

[T0MY]

can you get busted if you help a friend move to a new house?

whats that gotta do with work permit, are you trying to change the subject

[monitorlizard]

I'm with Indo-Siam. There is more to this than meets the eye. Generally speaking, the listing on the Persona Non Grata list is for way in excess of 10 years too. His fine was out of the ordinary too.

Alright everyone, I will call my friend up tonight and get the whole story and post what I found out tomorrow.

[fat_bald_farang]

hello

last night i carried my wifes sisters computer out of my wifes travel agent shop. there is policeman who does security for the gold shop next door - last night it was not the usual policeman as we know the usual guy and sometimes wave hello. this guy gave me such a look as i put the cpu case in my sister inlaws pickup, i thought he was going to come out of the shop and question me. we are friendly with the gold shop, it's my wifes business and i sit at the back not behind the counter but you hear stories and last night frightened the ###### out of me. yes i did some work on her computer - upgraded the os and ram but did it as a favour to her no money changed hands. i think some of this stuff is just a matter of local jealousy/competition or just being in the wrong place at the wrong time. it would have gone bad last night but it didn't... just luck i guess?????

fatty

[JayDawg]

Ok OK, maybe people should be warned, but comon yall! You are in Thailand! If you dont want to respect the Kingdom, and the privledge you have of being there, then you deserve what you get.

Common Sense is what is needed here. All these ding dongs that get busted for drugs, and getting drunk, and causing basic trouble.... They are bringing this stuff on themselves. Dont act like an ass in Thailand, dont break the law, pretty ###### simple. If you dont know if what you are doing is wrong or not, then stop and find out.

Not a hard concept to grasp. But I guess for some it is. I understand this guy prolly needed money, but his need for money has cost him more than the profit he gained from what he was doing. Crime does not pay in the long run. Maybe it didnt seem like a crime to him, but there are laws in Thailand, and they dont favor the Farang.

[monitorlizard]

Just a quick update. I called the source and he is out of Bangkok on a business trip with a client. He should be back tomorrow. As soon as I find out more I will post it here.

[marquess]

Guys! Guys! Guys! I suspect that he got busted for what he was doing rather than for not having a permit. You see the TOT has been dragging it's feet for year over the VOIP thing. In the fear that it will dent their monopolistic revenue. It is probably the fact the German was doing what he was doing that got him busted.

I recall, 3 years ago when on one of the Islands, a Thai being busted for using one of those internet VOIP things.

When they start going to language schools and busting teacher then I would really start to worry.