Vicious Beating On Khao San Road

[LoveDaBlues]

Accept Thailand for what it is, I do thats why I still live here, amongst other reasons, but don't defend the indefensible desperately at every turn. Get real.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I've noticed this also on this forum. Some very defensive people when a negative post is made about Thailand or a bad incident.......sometimes to the point where the poster is basically called a liar. I guess Neeranam deserved to be beaten up and cheated......or maybe he's not telling the WHOLE story ......perhaps I deserved to be robbed......or maybe I'm lying and it didn't happen....

My plans at this point are to live with the GF in Thailand....hopefully 9-10 months each year and the rest back in the states. So I like Thailand.......but lets not attack people who have been the victims of a crime.

Jomama - I grew up in the 'backwoods of the South' (Mississippi); go there and they'll force you to do something terrible.....like eat some grits.

Recently here in Las Vegas two scumbags sat around all day drinking and trying to decide what to do to have some fun. Around 11 pm they decided to go shoot someone......just for fun (this is what they later confessed to). They shot and killed a casino shift manager driving home from work. They choose him at random. He was 60 years old with a wife and a 10 year old little girl. I'd classify this as a 'random act of violence'.

[Curt]

Sorry, I meant most random acts of violence.

Once again, really slooooooooooooooow.

I don't think all Thais are saints.

I don't think a beating is justified.

I do believe, however, that in MOST CASES, and I repeat, IN MOST CASES, shit doesn't just happen.

Alcohol is a great catalyst for disaster.

You remove the alcohol from this situation, and there would be no story to tell.

I think it's better to tell people to watch their shit.

People are becoming far too comfortable in a foreign country that does, indeed, offer few protections.

Yes, there are people out there to get you.

But, most of them are quite easily avoided.

Most people don't hang out these places.

Most people don't close up bars.

Most people won't have this problem.

[OlRedEyes]

Recently here in Las Vegas two scumbags sat around all day drinking and trying to decide what to do to have some fun.  Around 11 pm they decided to go shoot someone......just for fun (this is what they later confessed to).  They shot and killed a casino shift manager driving home from work.  They choose him at random.  He was 60 years old with a wife and a 10 year old little girl.  I'd classify this as a 'random act of violence'. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If it happens here, there will be much agonising over what he probably did wrong.

It is a form of, sorry for not remebering the exact word, being patronizing. When you deal with people you regard as equals, you will take their culture into account, but still condemn uncivilized behaviour. If you regard them as less developed, or more barbaric if you wish, you excuse uncivilized behaviour or find excuses for it.

You see it in Western dealings with Africa all the time. Making continual excuses for unacceptable Thai behaviour on the basis of culture and 'there must be more to the story' only serves to demonstrate that the speaker doesn't see the Thai as an equal, but because of PC will never admit it.

[Tolley]

It is amazing to read all the posters defending the Thais.

These sort of incidents are commonplace in LOS.

There was a guy nearly killed the other day in Asoke presumably because he didn't pay for some alcohol.

There was the cop in Kanchanburi who got bail when he murdered those English backpackers.

There are the organised assisted suicides in Pattaya that occur on a regular basis.

Thailand is a very violent place and westerners really don't have any legal protection in Thailand. Thais can beat up and even kill western tourists with impunity. Do you think this fact is not lost on many Thais?

To be fair Thai on Thai violence is even worse.

The drugs war where 2000 people were murdered by the police. The incident in the south of Thailand where 70 odd prostestors were murdered etc

Thailand and its fake smiles suck many a gullilbe tourist into believing it is truly the LOS. However you only have to scratch the surface very slightly to reveal a very violent xenophobic society.

Time some posters here took a reality check.

No matter how long or how much you know about LOS you too could be a victim of crime here.

Wake up!

[lampard10]

It is amazing to read all the posters defending the Thais.

These sort of incidents are commonplace in LOS.

There was a guy nearly killed the other day in Asoke presumably because he didn't pay for some alcohol.

There was the cop in Kanchanburi who got bail when he murdered those English backpackers.

There are the organised assisted suicides in Pattaya that occur on a regular basis. 

Thailand is a very violent place and westerners really don't have any legal protection in Thailand. Thais can beat up and even kill western tourists with impunity. Do you think this fact is not lost on many Thais?

To be fair Thai on Thai violence is even worse.

The drugs war where 2000 people were murdered by the police. The incident in the south of Thailand where 70 odd prostestors were murdered etc

Thailand and its fake smiles suck many a gullilbe tourist into believing it is truly the LOS. However you only have to scratch the surface very slightly to reveal a very violent xenophobic society.

Time some posters here took a reality check.

No matter how long or how much you know about LOS you too could be a victim of crime here.

Wake up!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So the people killed,injured or maimed in Europe because they support the wrong football team are not as bad.The schoolkids ramdomly shot in the States because some guy got up on a monday morning not feeling too good are not as bad. The teenager who beats an eightyfive year old blind widow senseless and unrecognisable cause she has a couple of pounds hidden away are not so bad. The nice school teacher who blows himself up on a crowded bus, cause he heard voices in his head are not so bad. It's time you my friend took a reality check. And I think your end piece should read.

' No matter how much you know about the World you too could be a victim of crime'. Thailand is not a very violant place. The world we live in is a very violant place. I personally have never felt safer now I am living in your 'Helll on Earth'

Edited July 31, 2005 by lampard10

[uncle paul]

ok so we have moved on to general violence in thailand

life is cheap and violence is part of that.

because you are in Thailand you dont have to forget your street awareness!

[dr_Pat_Pong]

With most of these stories there always seems to be some vital piece of info left out.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The third side of the story.......the truth. <_<

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So very very true

[Neeranam]

I guess Neeranam deserved to be beaten up and cheated......or maybe he's not telling the WHOLE story

I don't think in this particular instance I deserved to be beaten up. Just because I was drunk is no excuse. Ha ha , I remember walking down the road with a mate in Scotland when we were attacked for no reason by a bunch of soccer thugs. An unmarked police car saw the lot. In court the judge and defense started questioning if I had been drunk or not, how many beers I had had, to which I pointed out that it didn't matter if I were crawling along the ground, I wouldn't deserve to be beaten up. What a farce, they got 250 pound fines, I nearly got done for contempt of court(I had had 4 or 5 double jack daniels and coke and 4 pints of strong lager for lunch!). The casuals(thugs) then marked us for pointing them out in court and a few months lateer I got a broken nose again outside a night club.

I think the problem is with me, when I drink I go places that I would never have gone, sometimes very dangerous places. When alcohol is added to me, however, I can be a complete ######, I guess all the beatings prove that. Funny as I always think I never deserved it, maybe I did totally and can't remember some important details. A guy in Pat Pong attacked me with a snooker cue for absolutely no reason! A bouncer in a night club smashed a bottle over my head for no reason. etc etc etc. mmmm why me?. Since I have quit drinking(many years now) I have NEVER been beaten up, or come anywhere close. Says it all really.

But many Thais in tourist areas are scum, and when a dispute with a farang happens they all stick together and have a good laugh as they all cowardly have a kick when they are on the ground.

Edited July 31, 2005 by Neeranam

[Jockstar]

I'm surprised and saddened by this. I know people who work there or have worked there. I would be very surprised if they were involved. Infact i was in there last night. And met a friend from a few years back who used to work somewhere else. I think that maybe the full story is not being told here. But i may be wrong. I for one will not stop going there. I have never had any problems there and neither have any my friends. I've been going there For over 3 years and have never witnessed anything of this nature.

[Jockstar]

This posted by one of those injured:

i feel obliged to issue a fair warning - as well as look for some advice...

i personally ask you to BOYCOTT the Sawasdee Guesthouse and Restaurant on Rambuttri lane, Banglamphu (the lane is just north of the west end of Khao Sarn rd)

my partner and i and another girl we were out with have just been brutally attacked by staff at this restaurant/guesthouse.

we were having a quiet drink, just the 3 of us, in the small hours of the morning (1 or 2 beers) and had been paying the cheque as each beer was served. we got up to leave and were presented with a new bill (300B). an argument resulted over us not paying for it, as we had already paid. after having spent 3 months in india, i'm fairly fed up with this sort of 'scam' and stated the ridiculousness of it and went to leave.

the result - i got punched in the face by one of the waiters. repeatedly. of course my partner and the other girl tried to intervene and i got thrown across the room into furniture and other people. on turning around i saw at least 2 waiters then punching and kicking my friends. other thai's ran in, which i thought was to help us, but instead it was more thai staff joining in the forray. there were at least 5 of them, and my two friends were curled up on the floor in a ball while being repeatedly bashed. none of us fought back whatsoever. something we actually perhaps regret now!

one of the waiters produced a metal bar and hit us also with that (as i attempted to pull the men away from my friends) and that has lead to stitches on my partners head and a few lumps and bumps to boot. there was blood everywhere and they just wouldnt stop. only upon me running out to the lane and screaming police as loud as i could did they back off and let my friends scrape themselves off the floor and find an ambulance. we have since spent over US$1000 in hospital bills thanks to the kind caring staff at Sawasdee!

police eventually came to the lane but wouldnt attend the scene of the crime (stood at least 50m away) and provided us with no help what-so-ever. they wouldnt take a statement, or let us indicate the criminals. they took no names and in fact didnt even speak to us. they just stood their with their hands in the pockets. this will almost definitely be because they are paid by the restaurant to look the other way. i have since been back to the police station and given a statement and shown a photo i took of one of the responding officers, but i sincerely doubt anything will happen.

what i want to know is - HOW can we tell people what the staff at this very popular guesthouse restaurant are prepared to do? i dont think a business serving foreign backpackers like that should be allowed to continue!

we have since been told by a girl that she witnessed only 2 nights before a similar incident at the SAME place. a UK backpacker being continually bashed and beaten by the staff on the street out the front. this is obviously not an isolated event. i have no idea what 'started' that incident, but NOTHING can deserve that sort of brutality.

what should we do?

what would you do?

This is where it sounds &lt;deleted&gt;. You cannot get beer or whiskey after 1am. Only cocktails.

[Boo]

Does seem that there is one side of the story missing doens't there?

[Jockstar]

Does seem that there is one side of the story missing doens't there?

Yes. For sure.

[jomama]

I think this probably did happen (where there's that much smoke, there's fire), but why? Could be more to the story indeed. Like rude behavior, etc. Still it doesn't warrant being hospitalized. Maybe some of the posts have the key words:

ghetto+drunk+arrogance=problems.

Could happen many places in the world...but I think that people should know about it. Cultural sensitivity is one thing, but brutal behavior remains brutal in any culture.

[Boo]

I do feel bad for the people if they got attacked & it was without provocation but a 300bt bill doesn't seem enough to me for that kind of violence. I personally have seen froeigners in Thailand who are completly patronising to thai people & particulary towards service staff that makes me what to smack them. So until all sides of the story are out there I don't think it can be blamed entirely on anyone but a severe beating would, IMHO be warranted after something much worse than not paying 300bt bill without some other crap going down as well

[Richard Hall]

I was once in a situation on a late night in a bar on Patpong road. I started to realize something was wrong when many of the customers left quickly. Two obvious Muay Thai Boxing trained types posted themselves by the door. I was then presented with a bill for 5000 baht.

No one was being allowed to leave the bar unless they paid the phoney bill. I was told if I wanted to leave, I'd have to pay the 5000.

Eventually I negotiated down to 1500 baht, by letting the guy in charge know that was all I had. He agreed to let me leave. During the discussion I mentioned the tourist police. He just laughed at me, said he had the police paid off, and anyhow before I got to the police, I would already be in the hospital.

On my first day in BKK I was told when I felt the need to visit a bar in Patpong to stick to places run by the King's group because they don't rip you off. Actually, they have the intention to keep the reputation of Patpong "clean" because if the foreigners start staying away this is going to ruin their business.

Wonder how that grinning thug would have reacted if your just had told him calmly that you were not intending to report to the tourist police but rather to a manager of the King's group. Most likely you didn't have to pay a single baht in this case.

Knowing the rules and going by them make quite a difference here in Thailand.

Best advice will always surely be to stay away from dubious places and people whenever possible.

Enjoy BKK 'coz it has got lots to offer.

Richard

Edited July 31, 2005 by Richard Hall

[Tolley]

It is amazing to read all the posters defending the Thais.

These sort of incidents are commonplace in LOS.

There was a guy nearly killed the other day in Asoke presumably because he didn't pay for some alcohol.

There was the cop in Kanchanburi who got bail when he murdered those English backpackers.

There are the organised assisted suicides in Pattaya that occur on a regular basis. 

Thailand is a very violent place and westerners really don't have any legal protection in Thailand. Thais can beat up and even kill western tourists with impunity. Do you think this fact is not lost on many Thais?

To be fair Thai on Thai violence is even worse.

The drugs war where 2000 people were murdered by the police. The incident in the south of Thailand where 70 odd prostestors were murdered etc

Thailand and its fake smiles suck many a gullilbe tourist into believing it is truly the LOS. However you only have to scratch the surface very slightly to reveal a very violent xenophobic society.

Time some posters here took a reality check.

No matter how long or how much you know about LOS you too could be a victim of crime here.

Wake up!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So the people killed,injured or maimed in Europe because they support the wrong football team are not as bad.The schoolkids ramdomly shot in the States because some guy got up on a monday morning not feeling too good are not as bad. The teenager who beats an eightyfive year old blind widow senseless and unrecognisable cause she has a couple of pounds hidden away are not so bad. The nice school teacher who blows himself up on a crowded bus, cause he heard voices in his head are not so bad. It's time you my friend took a reality check. And I think your end piece should read.

' No matter how much you know about the World you too could be a victim of crime'. Thailand is not a very violant place. The world we live in is a very violant place. I personally have never felt safer now I am living in your 'Helll on Earth'

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Mate. you just don''t seem to get the point.

Sure violence is everywhere but it is worse in Thailand than most of the countries where we come from.

Thailand is a third world country where life is cheap.

Add to this that the police will not care tuppence if you are a farang and a victim of violent crime. There is no due process something that is taken for granted in many other countries but not in Thailand.

It is funny how posters here keep saying well there must be more to the story than what was said....yeah right whatever they did doesn't warrant the punishment that was meted out.

This is also in a main tourist area in Bangkok and did the police give a hoot?

Not likely....nothing in it for them.

""I personally have never felt safer now I am living in your 'Helll on Earth""

Your personal reality is at odds with most of the statistical evidence and much of the anecdotal as well.

Silly comment really...........there are trade offs for living in Thailand and one of them is that personal safety is a bigger issue .....cheaper lifestyle attracts many that are prepared to make that trade off.....being aware of the situation is being forewarned....simple as that.

[Jockstar]

Thailand is a third world country where life is cheap.

LOS hasn't been a 3rd world country for at least 10-12 years.

[kat]

uhm, yes it is. As evidenced by the World Bank and United Nations, and Thaksin's great announcement to make Thailand a developed country before Malaysia in 2014 or so.

[SEAtramp]

Very much agree with Tolley. Make no bones about it, Thai's are given the ability to kick shi~ out of farangs, as and when the mood takes them.

And when i say given thats exactly what can be interpreted in the mind of Thai's. You are not Thai, you are in our country. Who,just who will intervene when you find yourself lying in a pool of blood ? For sure it will not be a Thai.

A simple one on one confrontation thai V farang will almost certainly see other Thai's appear out of the woodwork, only too willing to beat the farang to a pulp. Forget about all that Buddhist/Karma/smile/ indoctrinated stuff. As far as they are concerned, if you die from a good kicking you will re-inherit the planet as maybe a gecko or katoey. So no problem in having to make some merit at the Tak Baht line up the next day for them.

Thai's are the most cowardly brutal peices of work I have ever seen when it comes to confrontations. And as a farang you will do well to always bear this in mind, never &lt;deleted&gt; with a Thai's ricebowl. (matters not wether full or not)

[ilyushin]

I've seen lots of questionable acts of violence on Khao San. They (locals) do cause some of it and sometimes the tourist are asking for trouble.

Report it to the TAT (Tourist Police) and the travel publications that are focused on Khao San Rd. Keep the people informed.

I fought 14 Thais over the defense of tourist back in 1990. They came out of the wood work with everything but a gun. The victim was sliced ( broken beer bottle) and admitted to hospital.

Myself, I was soiled a little. Gave them a good fight, but it wasn't why I went out. Never went down and they tired and backed off after a few words in Thai and more threats -we walked.

Sounds like Sawasdee Guest House needs a change of attitude.

Anybody know the owner?

[Richard Hall]

Statistically, I must be scared to death now but frankly said I give a hoot. Does this make me an ignorant bugger with low life expectancy? Hoot again 'coz the cheap lifestyle here makes me senseless.

I'm 100% with ya Jock Thailand ain't a third world country but rather a DEVELOPING country which is surely a much more brighter perspective than you can anticipate in numerous "advanced" countries that appear to go more and more backwards.

Never felt more home than here and well as far as statistics are concerned well just flush them. Maybe one day one or several furious Thai are going to beat the &lt;deleted&gt; out of me but well it's for sure not gonna be an easy, well very easy, job.

There is a severe difference between visitors and long time expats. Quite a number of the latter adjust. Do I must anticipate now that in 5 years more or so when the transformation is complete that I start to prey on harmless foreigners and make it kind of a hobby to kick backpackers into the groin The Thai answer to American werewolf? Scarey, frightening, intimidating... aeh, what to heck "mai bpen rai".

Closing with a weak sounding Chaiyo 'coz that weird glimmer in the eyes of the policeman at the corner just popped into my mind.

Cheers from BKK,

Richard

P.S.: By the way it is as just a myth that all Japanese are Karatekas like that all Thais are Muay Thai fighters. Frankly, said like in all other countries the majority is in pretty poor shape. Being a good martial arts artist takes a lot of character and attitude and usually a real champ is not a thug. Well, a good friend of mine, guard of Pram Ram 3 park, is a former muay thai fighter with the right attitude. Once, a bunch of 5 Thai youngsters wanted to mess with him and well all he did was getting in position and there where some rabbits on the run.

Edited July 31, 2005 by Richard Hall

[lampard10]

""I personally have never felt safer now I am living in your 'Helll on Earth""

Your personal reality is at odds with most of the statistical evidence and much of the anecdotal as well.

Silly comment really...........there are trade offs for living in Thailand and one of them is that personal safety is a bigger issue .....cheaper lifestyle attracts many that are prepared to make that trade off.....being aware of the situation is being forewarned....simple as that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well I'm afraid I moved to Thailand because it is safer than England. I love England,but it has become a place to avoid rather than one to return to. Well enough of this. You just cannot talk to Thailand knockers like yourself. Sometimes I wonder just why you are here.

[markuk]

Isnt it funny that the majority of these "Incidents" involve tourists, i have lived here for a while and never get any trouble at all, which i am sure goes for most of the expats here.

Tourists really do need to open their eyes to their behaviour sometimes (especially Songkran!!), there is bound to be another vital piece of info to this story.....

IMO!

[chonabot]

On my first trip to Thailand , back in 1988 , as a young 20 something I found myself in Pattaya...

I was minding my business walking along the Beach Road , about 10 am, when a rough looking older Thai bloke approached me. He grabbed my left wrist in a firm grip , then proceeded to shove me with the other hand. I was a little bemused and looked around for some kind of reaction from others. All I received was a few tourists shuffling past , not interested , and a few Thais looking in amusement.

I told the guy to get the fuqc away from me , he increased the grip and started to throw a few knees at me. Fortunately I had been doing several styles of Martial Arts since I was about 6 , including Aikido. I used the std circular realease and lock grip , took the &lt;deleted&gt; down, heard a snap, and walked away.

None of the smirking Thais came to his defense. Funnily enough i saw the guy a few times on subsequent visits , hopefully he had stopped pulling that sh1t with other less able farangs.

And that was the only time I have had a physical confrontation , except whilst Muay Thai training. So IMO these people do exist in Thailand , and they can attack without provacation, wrong place and time.

As to the OP's post , who knows the full story ?, but I can't recommend the ability to look after yourself and yours highly enough.

9 times out of 10 , these &lt;deleted&gt; will back off if you can hurt them back.

Edited July 31, 2005 by chonabot

[Jockstar]

Isnt it funny that the majority of these "Incidents" involve tourists, i have lived here for a while and never get any trouble at all, which i am sure goes for most of the expats here.

Tourists really do need to open their eyes to their behaviour sometimes (especially Songkran!!), there is bound to be another vital piece of info to this story.....

IMO! 

Agreed mate. Some of these people here saying this, saying that. No idea. This NOT your country. If you DONT like it, Then ###### off!.

[bkkmadness]

This is where it sounds &lt;deleted&gt;. You cannot get beer or whiskey after 1am. Only cocktails.

If its the one up by the temple you can get whiskey and beer as well depending I suppose on the current climate, manager in charge and who you know. I never drink cocktails, only whiskey there after hours.

[Nordlys]

P.S.: By the way it is as just a myth that all Japanese are Karatekas like that all Thais are Muay Thai fighters.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, it's nothing but a myth. Not every Japanese/Chinese/Koreans practiced martial arts and I, for one, (as a Japanese) know next to nothing about Karate and just because you're a martial artist doesn't mean you can overpower bunch of thugs like OP has faced, though demonstrating "kata" position can fool and scare away those who tend to believe all Japanese are descendant of samurai, ninjas or whatever (heard it works in certain part of Europe).

[bkkmadness]

This the reason why I think there is something else to this story, a part of the victimns account of the incident

we were having a quiet drink, just the 3 of us, in the small hours of the morning (1 or 2 beers) and had been paying the cheque as each beer was served. we got up to leave and were presented with a new bill (300B). an argument resulted over us not paying for it, as we had already paid. after having spent 3 months in india, i'm fairly fed up with this sort of 'scam' and stated the ridiculousness of it and went to leave.

The guy seems like he had a chip on his shoulder in the first place coz of his experiences in India, did he bring the wrong attitude to this situation? You know how racist some of these travellers can be with their "all the thais are robbing me" thinking.

Gotta wonder how politely he stated it was ridiculous, could he not have sorted it out there and then without doing a runner on the apparent bill?

Did he run off his mouth and tell them to 'f.uck off' or something? Only one side of the story here and I dont believe from previous experience of Thais or the staff at Sawadee that they would have attacked someone for no reason over a 300 baht bill discrepancy IF the guy handled it the correct way.

I'm wondering if as many times before it was the farang playing the part of the "superior white man' and finding out pretty soon after that he aint so superior after all.

I'm sure in the same situation, that I would never have got into a fight over it and could have dealt with it properly.

[chownah]

It's been awhile since I've been in one of those establishments in Bangkok but up here in the North this is an everyday occurance. Many times when you enter a bar you have to step over the farangs who are out cold on the floor...and be sure you don't slip on the blood!!!.....its no big deal really...just life in the North. It's kind of funny actually....watching the people who are new up here feeling so put upon the first time they get whacked on the noggin for leaving no tip!!! You learn pretty quickly....if you survive.

[daleyboy]

This isnt a Thai bashing post BUT, i was with a friend of mine on KSR and she(farang)was looking at a skirt, picked it up tried it up against herself decided it would be too big and put it back down, the Thai women then turns around and says "&lt;deleted&gt; Americans i am glad they blow up towers" i was truly amazed at this comment(3 days after the twin towers). I wasnt sure if i should say something, i turned round and told her 1. we wernt Americans and 2. she should really watch her comments because someone would probably smack her in the mouth, if she said it to the WRONG person. We then walked away.

This is the only hostility i have faced in all my time in Thailand, and i am still stunned to this day why she actually said this.We showed no hostility towards her, we showed no arrogance, we were polite and were not your typical backpackers ( we had actually showered that day and werent wearing fisherman pants and no platted hair)

It seems funny that all these problems happen around the ksr area, maybe the Thai people around this area are fed up of the great arrogant unwashed crew that hang aroud here