What You Have Done For Thailand?

[Nawtier]

I suppose I could pay back all that Thailand has given me. What government office do you suggest I go to visit and empty my bowels on the floor?

immigration...post haste

[jazzbo]

From my TV.com profile:

Braille -- Founder of US 501c3 Non-Profit (NGO); US Library of Congress

Certified Braille Transcriber; Volunteered 2001-2003 at Thai NGO Under

Patronage of HM the King.

I assisted a committee of lawyers and political scientist who are blind in drafting Section 30. of the current 2007 Constitution regarding 'unjust discrimination' ...

[MSingh]

Pay Tax, more Tax than the vast majoritty of Thai people taht i know i would have thoguht too, for sure...

[jaideeguy]

Over 2 decades in Asia, I can't begin to count the people and families, wats, churches, schools, strangers, women, women and [did I mention women??] here in LOS and the Philippines and mostly without a 'thanks'!!

[sleepwalker999]

I pay 1,500 baht tax every month.

Now walk up to the end of your soi and back while your at it ask all those motorbike drivers and food sellers just how much tax they are paying, my guess would be a big fat nothing.

[phetaroi]

Thai immigration policy in no uncertain terms says - We Don't Want You Here

And to this you give a big dopey smile and open your wallet.

As for HIV orphans. Why isn't the govt doing more for them and to curb HIV? Why can't you donate to some HIV cause in your home country and feel as good? Or to Haiti? Or wherever....Why does Thailand deserve your donation when they treat you like a criminal?

Your previous post brings up a sore subject for many, because just the fact that someone doesn't like something about Thailand doesn't mean they should be asked, "So why don't you leave?" But you went down a long laundry list of things that you despise in the country. If I hated a country that much, I would leave.

Now, in re Thai immigration policy saying they don't want you here...if they really didn't want you here, the policy would simply not allow you to be here. I think attitude has always been that they want us here (mostly for the incoming money), but they want to put us in our place just a bit.

As to your last question, third world countries (and make no mistake, Thailand is still that) don't have the discretionary funds the rich countries have to spend on health issues...and event he rich countries don't always do a very good job of it.

[Forethat]

I help others because it makes ME feel good, not because I expect anything in return. And, it seems like Kharma actually works. To me, all humans on earth should have a right to enjoy a relatively safe and pleasant life.

You are a wise man, Ian.

For further clarification (not you Ian, you've got it spot on already!) I recommend the book "The Art of Happiness" by his holiness The Dalai Lama. In this book, he makes it clear that every living thing on earth have two things in common:

1. We all seek happiness

2. We all try to avoid suffering

The problem emerges in the way most of us try to get the happiness required in point 1. The Dalai Lama teaches us that there's a counteraction to everything we do. Some of us eat because it makes us happy, but the obvious counteract is that we get fat and unhealthy. Some of us get happy when we drink, but eventually that too will backfire on our health. Some of us want money, but that may cause us lose our friends. The list goes on and on; everything we do in order to get a little happiness has a balancing power that works towards suffering and unhappiness.

BUT, there's an exception to the rule. If instead of trying to gain your own happiness, you try to make OTHER people happy, then there's no drawback, there's no counterbalancing force which will push you towards unhappiness and suffering. This is the only way you can achieve sustainable happiness - to make other people happy! The greatest happiness, according to the Dalai Lama, is achieved by making other people happy without ever letting them know you actually made it happen, and therefore can never expect to receive gratitude or recognition for being a good person. I like the Thai expression for this "pidt tong lang pra" (Decorate the back of the Buddha)

I am confident there are posters on here who do good deeds without feeling the need to brag about them, so for this reason I find this topic a little strange.

[StreetCowboy]

Thai immigration policy in no uncertain terms says - We Don't Want You Here

And to this you give a big dopey smile and open your wallet.

As for HIV orphans. Why isn't the govt doing more for them and to curb HIV? Why can't you donate to some HIV cause in your home country and feel as good? Or to Haiti? Or wherever....Why does Thailand deserve your donation when they treat you like a criminal?

Your previous post brings up a sore subject for many, because just the fact that someone doesn't like something about Thailand doesn't mean they should be asked, "So why don't you leave?" But you went down a long laundry list of things that you despise in the country. If I hated a country that much, I would leave.

Now, in re Thai immigration policy saying they don't want you here...if they really didn't want you here, the policy would simply not allow you to be here. I think attitude has always been that they want us here (mostly for the incoming money), but they want to put us in our place just a bit.

As to your last question, third world countries (and make no mistake, Thailand is still that) don't have the discretionary funds the rich countries have to spend on health issues...and event he rich countries don't always do a very good job of it.

+1

I'd like to think that I had done more than the bare minimum for Thailand, but sadly, I can't. I paid no more tax than I was obliged to, I did no more than I needed to in order to comply with the immigration requirements, and I did not pay any more than what I considered to be a fair price for any services I got. I didn't help out anyone except my friends, I've given scant pennies to beggars in the street, and no more than the most modest of donations at temples and public parks.

I really don't think that counts as giving at all. That is only paying a fair price.

I've never felt unwelcome, though. The people at immigration have always been polite and no more obstructive than could be ascribed to inefficiency and bureaucracy, rather than corruption, laziness or incompetence.

I've never been abused in the street, nor, to my knowledge, deliberately deceived of money - other than perhaps when intoxicated....

SC

[jazzbo]

Are you doing something (in Thailand) to contribute to your community? I do not consider paying government mandated taxes a contribution to the community ... But as far as doing something of one's own volition as a contribution to the community, the snarky answer is: Why should someone be expected to do in Thailand that which he/she never did at home?

[bangkokburning]

Honestly, I am here because of two reasons: Diving/snorkeling that can't be beat for cost, ease and beauty and a lovely lady cum girlfriend I met while on one of these trips. Other than that, I would be happily in Malaysia. I did not look or ask for the latter, the relationship fell into my lap, but she is an absolutely lovely person, so until we can move about more freely, I'm pretty much stuck. I do limit my stays to about 9 months a year. I had it down to 5-6 when we met. All I need Thailand to do is to give me a few TRs a year - but this has become an impossible grubbing session. I do not want an annual visa.

I have deleted some of my comments here >

For what its worth, I do support the National Park system. I pay about B5500a month + our food. Please note that not only do I support the park, but I pay 100% over the Thais. I would also argue that via VAT I pay more per month than the vast majority of Thais into the system that gives me nothing. In the US, a Thai would never be charged double for not being a US citizen nor anywhere else I have visited. This appears to be a "Thai thing"

If you want to help, help individuals through a (your) family. You will see the fruits of your hard won cash move someone to a better position in life. Personally, I do not support wats and especially monks. That's just me. We are after all only long-stay tourists here (hence your "extension of stay") no matter what sort of life you have built or illusions of permanence you harbor.

Ask the guy supporting some washed up 40++ bargirl and her two kids what he is "doing for Thailand" when they will not give him a visa to live here. All this guy does is drink himself silly in a small house in Issarn and gives every baht he has to the family and childrens (not his) education. They will not allow him back in the country. We have read this story 1000 times. So, not only does the govt directly harm the farang, but it in this case has ruined the opptys of the children and made that family potentially homeless. Because the guy only has a B40K pension. So please - give.

Every nation has a right to set its own immigration policy. We have a right to reject that policy. I just do not understand how given this nations policies can ever really call it home. I have been in and out of Thailand for 17 years and it has never felt less like "home".

Edited November 15, 2010 by bangkokburning

[surayu]

The greatest happiness, according to the Dalai Lama, is achieved by making other people happy without ever letting them know you actually made it happen, and therefore can never expect to receive gratitude or recognition for being a good person. I like the Thai expression for this "pidt tong lang pra" (Decorate the back of the Buddha)

I am confident there are posters on here who do good deeds without feeling the need to brag about them, so for this reason I find this topic a little strange.

The thoughts of the Lama are admirable, however i don't agree in keeping your help hidden, because that's a way to educate others which many times would have never thought about those good gestures, IMO to make aware the person on the receiving end and others around that his situation is improving because of the good heart of another person is much better than just leaving this person to think that it was just an event of luck, not depending from any other person, so others can be lead to think that things will get better by just leaving everything to his own destiny without feeling the need to intervent, that's not good, also do you feel like bragging your own wealth when you are donating something? I don't think so, that's bashing on whom is helping the society in multiple ways. :jap:

[surayu]

Are you doing something (in Thailand) to contribute to your community? I do not consider paying government mandated taxes a contribution to the community ... But as far as doing something of one's own volition as a contribution to the community, the snarky answer is: Why should someone be expected to do in Thailand that which he/she never did at home?

I will answer to that, first, when you are paying the taxes you ARE contributing to the community, because those funds should be used to improve things for them, if however some dishonest member of the government prefere to hijack those funds for his own personal enjoyment that's another matter. The second point is that many of those that are doing good things here, very likely have been also doing good things in their own country, or, given the newly aquired "freedom" from the western duties they might have decided to invest their time in something different, i don't like to use the words "to give back" because that sounds like if someone has taken more than it should, when instead people have very likely worked hard for what they got and probably been given less, surely not more, so people vastly deserved what they worked for and there is no need to "give back" , how many people when they have reached their retirement age decides to invest their time in local good causes? i don't think that's something you have never heard about

[Ulysses G.]

Thai immigration policy in no uncertain terms says - We Don't Want You Here

...just the fact that someone doesn't like something about Thailand doesn't mean they should be asked, "So why don't you leave?" But you went down a long laundry list of things that you despise in the country. If I hated a country that much, I would leave.

What a wimpy, long-winded way to tell him to go the f___ home!

[jazzbo]

A contribution is voluntary; Taxes are not voluntary... Everyone whether in Thailand or elsewhere is expected to support one's own family in exchange for what ever benefits you receive for such family association ... You can also say that your presence in Thailand is supporting the rubber tree growers.

Conversely: Those who never did 'good things' at home are likely not to be bothered to do 'good things' here.

[Forethat]

also do you feel like bragging your own wealth when you are donating something? I don't think so, that's bashing on whom is helping the society in multiple ways. :jap:

That is exactly what I dont feel like. And my point was that I dont expect others to bra about it either, and for that reason this topic becomes a little disabled - if there are someone out there he may not want to brag about it on TV. So for this reason, just because not many step up and claim a reward doesn't mean it isn't happening. Edited November 15, 2010 by Forethat

[jazzbo]

The OP mentioned about 'doing something to contribute to your community' ... I do not sense doing something necessarily equates to money ...

... of course there is always the David Mamet line: Everybody needs money. That's why they call it money.” (Heist)

[travelmann]

I bought 5 condos so Thai construction workers benefitted also the niti office were kept employed and the developer, I bought a car made in Thailand, I bought some land for my wife off a local so they probably blew it all on a car all made in Thailand, I gave the condos to my wife who earns about 90k a month renting them out so she has been kept employed and she quit her job to do it thereby freeing up her old job for a new Thai employee.

I pay for the fast track service at the airport thus employing their staff..

I did enough.

You bought those condos for your financial benefits your wife is earning 90ks by renting them out so she do not need any other lousy job, all the Toyota's and Honda's are assembled here in Thailand so you have to use them, and your fast track service at air port is just because you don't wanna waist your time.

I bought the condos to keep her occupied and give her a decent income rather than her 12 hour days for 12000 a month they are in HER name they could easily have been in mine on top of this she now has other agency work shes working 7 days a week.

I could have bought a Mercedes or Bmw not made in Thailand and even then Thailand would have made a huge profit from the taxes levied, I only use the fast track when NOT flying business class so guilty as charged, its free with business class.

Im only here for a few months each year.

[jazzbo]

Oscar Wilde wrote of someone who " ... knows the price of everything and the value of nothing." It is possible for someone with no money or without deploying money to still make a significant contribution ...

[IMA_FARANG]

I suspect like many people who will respond here, I didn't do what I did for Thailand, but for my personal reasons. In my case in 1980 I met a Thai woman who had been married before that had 3 children by her first husband, who then proceeded to run away from her leaving her with no money. Well, I fell in love with her, and 30 years later we are still together. I supported the family, fed and sent the kids to school, and bought a house in Bangkok for her where we all now live, and where I will be spending my retirement.

I would be lieing to say I did it for Thailand, but all three kids now have jobs, and the daughter has a grand daughter who is now in school. So at least I can claim they are all productive Thai citizens...and with another generation yet ahead on the way.

I never did it for Thailand, I did it for love and what I thought was my duty. I won't say it's been perfect, but the kids still call me daddy, and and that woman and I are still together after 30 years. Like the old joke goes, after that long I guess I'll keep her.

In the end, what else can you really ask for, anyhow?

[canuckamuck]

How about, "what have you done for Thailand that did not benefit you personally?"

It seems it has hard not to live here without a spin off benefit to the Thais, but how about completely sefless actions, any takers?

[jazzbo]

Well, to start with, maybe you can help send someone to school -- who would not otherwise be able to go to school -- who isn't a member of your family.

[KarenBravo]

Well, to start with, maybe you can help send someone to school -- who would not otherwise be able to go to school -- who isn't a member of your family.

You are quite obviously a saint. None of us are worthy to even stick matchsticks in your sh1t.

[jazzbo]

You're welcome.

Whatever it is I might do -- as the Canuck implies above -- I think many non-Thai persons in Thailand could 'contribute' more to the community than they do ...

Edited November 15, 2010 by jazzbo

[Loz]

How about, "what have you done for Thailand that did not benefit you personally?"

It seems it has hard not to live here without a spin off benefit to the Thais, but how about completely sefless actions, any takers?

An episode of "Friends" explored this idea and found it is not possible. :jap:

[KarenBravo]

How about, "what have you done for Thailand that did not benefit you personally?"

It seems it has hard not to live here without a spin off benefit to the Thais, but how about completely sefless actions, any takers?

An episode of "Friends" explored this idea and found it is not possible. :jap:

Well.........if it was on TV series Friends, it must be true..........

[surayu]

A contribution is voluntary; Taxes are not voluntary... Everyone whether in Thailand or elsewhere is expected to support one's own family in exchange for what ever benefits you receive for such family association ... You can also say that your presence in Thailand is supporting the rubber tree growers.

Conversely: Those who never did 'good things' at home are likely not to be bothered to do 'good things' here.

A "contribution" can also be an "unwilling contribution" and in many part of the world taxes are in fact more of a personal choice than anything else and yes, i am contributing in supporting the rubber tree growers as well and i am always doing it with a great pleasure

[jazzbo]

Charity biography:

Samuel L. Jackson was an usher at the funeral of Martin Luther King in 1968, which led him to become active in the civil rights movement.

... maybe you forgot.

Many male farangs in Thailand have made an 'unwilling' contribution to Thailand because they were unwilling to support the rubber growers ...

Edited November 15, 2010 by jazzbo

[surayu]

I think many non-Thai persons in Thailand could 'contribute' more to the community than they do ...

i agree, but the harsh reality is that many of those in need of a contribution, hardly deserved it...

[surayu]

How about, "what have you done for Thailand that did not benefit you personally?"

It seems it has hard not to live here without a spin off benefit to the Thais, but how about completely sefless actions, any takers?

An episode of "Friends" explored this idea and found it is not possible. :jap:

Yes that sounds about right, as people doing good things to others receive happiness and satisfaction by doing so, ....so that's a benefit that end up on theirselfs, maybe you can try to do it without looking or just telling some lies to yourself, naaah is not going to work, i give up

[jazzbo]

from Saturday Night Live version Biden - Palin debate

Gov. Sarah Palin: ... You know, John McCain and I, we're a

couple of mavericks. And, gosh darnit, we're gonna take that maverick

energy right to Washington and we're gonna use it to fix this financial

crisis and everything else that's plaguin' this great country of ours!

Gwen Ifill: How will you solve the financial crisis by being a maverick?

Gov. Sarah Palin: You know, we're gonna take every aspect of the

crisis and look at it and then we're gonna ask ourselves, "What would a

maverick do in this situation?" And then, you know, we'll do that! [ she

winks coyly ]

So just like Sarah, I say to myself every day, What would a Saint do? ... and then say: NAAH ...