Baird...Bell? The ignorance is overwhelming at times.

My astonishment at this question is such I've never found a satisfactory answer.

Anyway I'm in a decent burger restaurant and naturally order a halfpounder or whatever.....then I'm asked how I want it cooked.

Cooked?

Yes Sir how would you like it done?

Umm cooked please.

<are you being a smart arse look>

Help is it just me???

Yeah, you.

Burgers are cooked 3 ways, rare, medium, ruined.... and inbetween.

Harky, yer BBQd steak was spotton.........blue.

I actually knew the owners of Auckland's pie carts, no doubt you know them, The Broadway Diner and The White Lady Diner,.

For years I was asked to give a hand, possibly over 25 years.

Amazing what and how people would ask for in burgers, cooking and contents..

Our "Cannibal" burger was quite popular...... raw mince of course.

Popular for ppl in a hurry.

Edit to comment on previous post.

New Zealand sends so much beef for burgers to the US, unpteen tons.

Checked by meat inspectors all thru the process.

Must be local US beef with the e-coli.

Four children died in 1993 from an e coli infection picked up by eating hamburger not cooked well done (Jack in the Box). That started the well done cooking thing in all burger joints.

Most people in the States used to order a med or med rare burger before 1993 in high class burger joints. E coli is only really only a problem for ground beef as opposed to steak because it comes from the cow's intestine which are sometimes spilled as beef is ground.

Cows are completely ground up for burger. Steers are used for steaks and the trim is sometimes ground up for burger.

An old dairy cow enters the slaughterhouse and 20 minutes later a burger rolls out. There are all different kinds of burger but the hamburger chains buy the cheapest so e coli is still a danger. If you grind up primal cuts of meat the risk is very low and rare is fine.

E coli is killed immediately at well done temperatures or slowly at med rare temps in the case of roasting.

It of course is a standard question in a steak house to ask how you would like your steak cooked or in a breakfast house how you would like your eggs cooked.

I don't know how they do it in America, but even so, I doubt you are right.

Yes, old dairy cows, as well as old bulls, are the animals mainly used for the hamburger industry, but it is ONLY the meat. The beasts are slaughtered and butchered exactly the same way as any other meat animal, ie dressed (hide and offal removed), hung, and boned (by hand), just the same as your T-bone steak.

20 minutes is not realistic, either.

You are right that E-Coli is the main culprit, and that it likely can come from intestinal contamination....but from poor butchering practices.

There are many kinds of slaughter houses. There are those that break beef into primal cuts and ship those and those that produce only burger among many others.

The advantages of quick slaughter are many and include labor saving and less bacteria growth. Armour meats used to produce burger that had a refrigerated shelf life of over a month because they went from live to chilled in such a short period of time.

When steers are slaughtered for steaks it is a different ball game.

Cattle for burgers is done very quickly using boning machines. IBP and Con Agra both have production lines doing 400 cattle per hour.

The big change in automated slaughterhouses started in the 1960's.

No the most jaw droppingly stupid person I met was a Londoner who thought California was a city.

To be fair, I think that's an easy mistake to make if you didn't have specific knowledge about the region. American's often they they come from in terms of the state rather than city.

Baird...Bell? The ignorance is overwhelming at times.

My astonishment at this question is such I've never found a satisfactory answer.

Anyway I'm in a decent burger restaurant and naturally order a halfpounder or whatever.....then I'm asked how I want it cooked.

Cooked?

Yes Sir how would you like it done?

Umm cooked please.

<are you being a smart arse look>

Help is it just me???

Yeah, you.

Burgers are cooked 3 ways, rare, medium, ruined.... and inbetween.

Harky, yer BBQd steak was spotton.........blue.

I actually knew the owners of Auckland's pie carts, no doubt you know them, The Broadway Diner and The White Lady Diner,.

For years I was asked to give a hand, possibly over 25 years.

Amazing what and how people would ask for in burgers, cooking and contents..

Our "Cannibal" burger was quite popular...... raw mince of course.

Popular for ppl in a hurry.

Edit to comment on previous post.

New Zealand sends so much beef for burgers to the US, unpteen tons.

Checked by meat inspectors all thru the process.

Must be local US beef with the e-coli.

Verotoxigenic Escherichia coli (VTEC) infection is emerging as one of New Zealand’s most important enteric diseases. The incidence has increased markedly since the first case of VTEC serogroup O157 infection was detected in 1993, with 48 cases notified in 1998 (1.3 cases per 100 000). The impact of the disease is relatively high, with a case-fatality rate of 2.6% and a hospitalisation rate of 41%. Cases in New Zealand have been sporadic or in small household clusters, although common source outbreaks are well documented overseas. Rates of infection are highest in those under 5 years of age and in the central North Island. Reducing the incidence and impact of this disease requires effective surveillance, and prevention and control measures. Clinicians should consider the diagnosis of VTEC infection in any patient with diarrhoea, particularly bloody diarrhoea, or haemolytic uraemic syndrome, and request specific testing for these organisms. Swift notification of cases to the medical officer of health supports identification and investigation of common source outbreaks. Precautions are needed to limit secondary transmission, which is common. Prevention depends on the public and the food industry taking steps to minimise exposure. Minced meat should be thoroughly cooked. Unpasteurised milk and inadequately treated water should be avoided.

Ahaaaa a Jap disease.

VTEC is a Honda system

mark45y Thanks for that, matey.

Very interesting read.

I went to site.

Seems to affect infants mainly, decade old survey.

Clinical features of NZ cases of VTEC 1995-9

Most cases were young (61.3% of all cases since 1995 were less

than 5 years - figure 1) but all age groups were affected

The New Zealand Paediatric Surveillance Unit study of

HUS, there was a mean delay of five days between the onset

of symptoms and diagnosis of HUS in children. The diagnosis

must be considered in all children presenting with diarrhoea

(particularly bloody diarrhoea) who become progressively

unwell. Acute renal failure develops rapidly and coincides

with the onset of anaemia.

Antibiotics are not recommended in the treatment of VTEC

infection. They appear to increase the risk of developing

HUS by increasing the amount of Shiga toxin released.

Antidiarrhoeal drugs such as Lomotil and Imodium are also

contraindicated in VTEC-associated diarrhoea because they

appear to prolong the excretion of E. coli and worsen the

Figure 2: Childhood haemolytic uraemic syndrome and VTEC

isolates: NZ 1993 - 1999

No common source outbreaks have been recognised in NZ.

Nevertheless, based on overseas experience of large

outbreaks associated with common source food and water

borne illness, it is likely to be only a matter of time before

New Zealand experiences a VTEC outbreak.

Controlling VTEC infection depends on prompt identification

of cases, prevention of secondary transmission and the swift

recognition and control of the common source outbreak.

Clinicians should notify the Medical Officer of Health of all

suspected and confirmed cases of VTEC, including cases

of HUS. Public Health will undertake further appropriate

investigation and action.

The organism has a low infective dose and is

resistant to cold storage, acid conditions and

drying.

It's not just a beef problem. E coli is in the soil. Spinach and lettuce being big culprits. It is certainly not only a “Yank” problem. E Coli is an international problem. Forgive me if I overreacted a bit. There are times when I think some forums here should be renamed the Anti Yank and Arab and Israeli debating society forum.

BOT.

Just discovered the battery on my car is dead. I was on the way to meet up with my GF. Rang her to say I couldn't get there because the car won't start.

Her response: "did you try it?"

BOT.

Just discovered the battery on my car is dead. I was on the way to meet up with my GF. Rang her to say I couldn't get there because the car won't start.

Her response: "did you try it?"

I get the all the time OC. Questions like:

Mrs. 'Rakers: Did you get the milk?

Me: No, they didn't have any!

Mrs. 'Rakers: Did you look?

Standing at the bus stop. Somebody arrives and asks "Has the bus come yet?"

I have little patience for such things and nearly always resort to a torrent of sarcasm:

"Well yes it has actually, but instead of getting on it I decided to stand here in the freezing cold"

BOT.

Just discovered the battery on my car is dead. I was on the way to meet up with my GF. Rang her to say I couldn't get there because the car won't start.

Her response: "did you try it?"

I get the all the time OC. Questions like:

Mrs. 'Rakers: Did you get the milk?

Me: No, they didn't have any!

Mrs. 'Rakers: Did you look?

Um. Well. Given alot of men's capacity for finding things, its a fair question.

BOT.

Just discovered the battery on my car is dead. I was on the way to meet up with my GF. Rang her to say I couldn't get there because the car won't start.

Her response: "did you try it?"

I get the all the time OC. Questions like:

Mrs. 'Rakers: Did you get the milk?

Me: No, they didn't have any!

Mrs. 'Rakers: Did you look?

Um. Well. Given alot of men's capacity for finding things, its a fair question.

There's always one who lowers the tone

Um. Well. Given alot of men's capacity for finding things, its a fair question.

That's a low blow, sbk....

True, but low just the same.

Um. Well. Given alot of men's capacity for finding things, its a fair question.

That's a low blow, sbk....

True, but low just the same.

I'm very good at finding things. Better than anyone I've lived with.

Um. Well. Given alot of men's capacity for finding things, its a fair question.

That's a low blow, sbk....

True, but low just the same.

It's not a low blow because it is simply true.

It's the male perogative, globally, and bears the name "Domestic Blindness".

"Honey, my socks are not in the drawer."

"Yes they are".

"No, they're not, I can't see them anywhere." he says, with the drawer fully open and hands turning over all the undies in the smallest drawer in the dressing table.

She walks in to the room, over to the drawer, and hey presto, pulls the pair of socks out after a one second scan of the contents.

Women have to learn to accept that it is a male condition, genetic, and tied in with testosterone levels. We just can't help it.

Whooooosh

Um. Well. Given alot of men's capacity for finding things, its a fair question.

That's a low blow, sbk....

True, but low just the same.

It's not a low blow because it is simply true.

It's the male perogative, globally, and bears the name "Domestic Blindness".

"Honey, my socks are not in the drawer."

"Yes they are".

"No, they're not, I can't see them anywhere." he says, with the drawer fully open and hands turning over all the undies in the smallest drawer in the dressing table.

She walks in to the room, over to the drawer, and hey presto, pulls the pair of socks out after a one second scan of the contents.

Women have to learn to accept that it is a male condition, genetic, and tied in with testosterone levels. We just can't help it.

Male perogative, globally! Domestic Blindness! Male condition, generic!, Tied in with testosterone!

What a load of horseshit.

If you're incapable of finding a pair of socks in your own sock drawer, look within, don't assume everyone of your gender is also incapable of very simple tasks.

I know where all my shit is, and if I temporarily misplace something like keys, I can replay in my mind events leading up to the point where I put them down, and go straight there.

No the most jaw droppingly stupid person I met was a Londoner who thought California was a city.

To be fair, I think that's an easy mistake to make if you didn't have specific knowledge about the region. American's often they they come from in terms of the state rather than city.

I can remember convincing a Scot that Toronto wasn't really a city, it was just a big amusement park near Ottawa.

Um. Well. Given alot of men's capacity for finding things, its a fair question.

That's a low blow, sbk....

True, but low just the same.

It's not a low blow because it is simply true.

It's the male perogative, globally, and bears the name "Domestic Blindness".

"Honey, my socks are not in the drawer."

"Yes they are".

"No, they're not, I can't see them anywhere." he says, with the drawer fully open and hands turning over all the undies in the smallest drawer in the dressing table.

She walks in to the room, over to the drawer, and hey presto, pulls the pair of socks out after a one second scan of the contents.

Women have to learn to accept that it is a male condition, genetic, and tied in with testosterone levels. We just can't help it.

Male perogative, globally! Domestic Blindness! Male condition, generic !, Tied in with testosterone!

What a load of horseshit.

If you're incapable of finding a pair of socks in your own sock drawer, look within, don't assume everyone of your gender is also incapable of very simple tasks.

I know where all my shit is, and if I temporarily misplace something like keys, I can replay in my mind events leading up to the point where I put them down, and go straight there.

(should read "genetic" )

Perhaps I should have accompanied the obviously humourous, self-depracating, hyperbolic words with particular smilies to make certain it was a taken as intended.

Or did you just get out of the wrong side of the bed this morning?

It's not a low blow because it is simply true.

It's the male perogative, globally, and bears the name "Domestic Blindness".

"Honey, my socks are not in the drawer."

"Yes they are".

"No, they're not, I can't see them anywhere." he says, with the drawer fully open and hands turning over all the undies in the smallest drawer in the dressing table.

She walks in to the room, over to the drawer, and hey presto, pulls the pair of socks out after a one second scan of the contents.

Women have to learn to accept that it is a male condition, genetic, and tied in with testosterone levels. We just can't help it.

Male perogative, globally! Domestic Blindness! Male condition, generic !, Tied in with testosterone!

What a load of horseshit.

If you're incapable of finding a pair of socks in your own sock drawer, look within, don't assume everyone of your gender is also incapable of very simple tasks.

I know where all my shit is, and if I temporarily misplace something like keys, I can replay in my mind events leading up to the point where I put them down, and go straight there.

(should read "genetic" )

Perhaps I should have accompanied the obviously humourous, self-depracating, hyperbolic words with particular smilies to make certain it was a taken as intended.

Or did you just get out of the wrong side of the bed this morning?

Good pickup on my spelling error, but one of the first rules of being a spelling nazi is not to make one yourself.

If your post was self-deprecating, why did you include all men in what is just your own shortcomings?

I never get up on the wrong side of the bed because I'm organised. It's the side closest to the toilet, where I visit frequently during the night. That's the reason I wake up grumpy in the mornings!

..i find the "why would a western woman would date a thai man?" a bit of a 'scuze me whilst i go back my head against the wall' question.

..add to that "why would a western woman want to live in Thailand".

It's not a low blow because it is simply true.

It's the male perogative, globally, and bears the name "Domestic Blindness".

"Honey, my socks are not in the drawer."

"Yes they are".

"No, they're not, I can't see them anywhere." he says, with the drawer fully open and hands turning over all the undies in the smallest drawer in the dressing table.

She walks in to the room, over to the drawer, and hey presto, pulls the pair of socks out after a one second scan of the contents.

Women have to learn to accept that it is a male condition, genetic, and tied in with testosterone levels. We just can't help it.

Male perogative, globally! Domestic Blindness! Male condition, generic !, Tied in with testosterone!

What a load of horseshit.

If you're incapable of finding a pair of socks in your own sock drawer, look within, don't assume everyone of your gender is also incapable of very simple tasks.

I know where all my shit is, and if I temporarily misplace something like keys, I can replay in my mind events leading up to the point where I put them down, and go straight there.

(should read "genetic" )

Perhaps I should have accompanied the obviously humourous, self-depracating, hyperbolic words with particular smilies to make certain it was a taken as intended.

Or did you just get out of the wrong side of the bed this morning?

Good pickup on my spelling error, but one of the first rules of being a spelling nazi is not to make one yourself.

If your post was self-deprecating, why did you include all men in what is just your own shortcomings?

I never get up on the wrong side of the bed because I'm organised. It's the side closest to the toilet, where I visit frequently during the night. That's the reason I wake up grumpy in the mornings!

I am unable to understand having to get up and go to the toilet during the night.

Piss before bed, piss again once I get up.

Noway am I getting up, spoiling good dreams just to go piddle, woteva.......&lt;deleted&gt;.

I am unable to understand having to get up and go to the toilet during the night.

Piss before bed, piss again once I get up.

Noway am I getting up, spoiling good dreams just to go piddle, woteva.......&lt;deleted&gt;.

Just do like I do, Pete. Take a Viagra before going to bed. It keeps me from rolling out of bed.

I know where all my shit is,

Without offering my assistance to help, in case you do lose any, I hope the first place you look is the big white telephone.

..i find the "why would a western woman would date a thai man?" a bit of a 'scuze me whilst i go back my head against the wall' question.

..add to that "why would a western woman want to live in Thailand".

What did you date him? 1973 or 2497? (or whatever the Thai year was).

And banging your head against a brick wall does not help, believe me. I used to do it every day, twice on Sundays, but it was only when I left Thailand that I found peace and repose.

And to your second question, the answer is surely "'Cos it's there".