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Thaksin To Attend Human Rights Violation Hearing In US


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Thaksin regarded it as a good occasion to provide the United States with the other side of the story of what had taken place in April and May, the Thai government having already given information to the US administration and Congress.

Pretty sure the "other" side of the story needs to be told by the other side. Does Thaksin think he'll do a better job than D. Rivers?

Asked whether Thaksin would be able to attend, Thani said it was up to the US authorities to decide whether to allow him into the country.

Asked whether Thailand would seek his extradition if the former prime minister entered the country, Thani said the Office of the Attorney-General (OAG) would be responsible for making such a decision.

However, Sirisak Tiyapan, director of the OAG's International Affairs Department, said it would be for the Foreign Ministry and the Police Commission to request extradition. Unless the two agencies made such a request, the OAG has no authority to do anything, he said.

"The Foreign Ministry and the police have done nothing [in this regard] so far," he said.

This crap makes me nauseous.

Maybe just pull it together and arrest him and do your jobs.

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Me thinks the US will have no choice but to refuse him a visa just to avoid embarrassing Thailand.

Especially after the VB favor.

Anyway it will be interesting to see what happens.

I belive like the UK the US will try remain neutral and simple refuse entry.

What ever never mind! the sun is shining and its a glorious day to to the beach and chill out!

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FUGITIVE EX-PM

US on the spot over Thaksin

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Ex-PM invited to speak at US forum on military crackdown, says Noppadon; extradition an issue if allowed to enter

US authorities have been presented with a political hot potato, as former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra hopes to visit Washington to provide testimony to the US Commission on Security and Cooperation in Europe (CSCE).

The panel has invited him to provide information this month on the military crackdown in Bangkok this year, his legal adviser Noppadon Pattama said yesterday.

The US Embassy in Bangkok was not available for comment yesterday when asked whether Thaksin would be allowed to enter the country.

Thaksin has not visited the United States since he was ousted as Thailand's prime minister by a military coup in September 2006 while he was in New York for the United Nations General Assembly.

Chavanond Intarakomalyasut, secretary to the foreign minister, said he believed Thaksin would not be able to enter the United States, but he did not say why he thought this was the case.

The Foreign Ministry has learned about his planned visit but could not provide any details, he said.

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva said yesterday: "I don't know what he would say there, but as far as I know he was heavily mentioned in a previous US Congress session."

The Foreign Ministry will verify whether Thaksin will actually go the United States to provide testimony, he added.

Noppadon said in an e-mail to the media that Thaksin had been invited to testify to the CSCE in the middle of the month over the crackdowns on red-shirt protesters in April and May. The commission sent the invitation a few days ago and Thaksin has accepted it, he said.

The CSCE, also known as the Helsinki Commission, is an independent US government agency created in 1976 to monitor and encourage compliance with the Helsinki Final Act and other commitments of the Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE).

It comprises nine members from the US Senate, nine from the House of Representatives and one each from the departments of State, Defence and Commerce.

Thailand's domestic affairs come under the attention of the commission as the country has been an OSCE cooperation partner since November 2000.

Noppadon said the senators on the CSCE wanted Thaksin to provide information and evidence during a hearing in Washington regarding human-rights violations in Thailand.

He claimed the CSCE particularly wanted to delve into the crackdowns on anti-government demonstrators in April and May, during which more than 90 people were killed and more than 2,000 injured.

He said the commission also wanted Thaksin to brief it about the situation in the deep South and violations of freedom of expression and press freedom, which, he said, had been restricted by the state of emergency imposed earlier in the year.

Former foreign minister Noppadon insisted Thaksin had not offered to testify, but was responding positively to an invitation to give information to the panel.

Thaksin regarded it as a good occasion to provide the United States with the other side of the story of what had taken place in April and May, the Thai government having already given information to the US administration and Congress.

"I can say that Thaksin will definitely not do anything to cause damage to the country. He will simply give the truth to the panel," he said.

Acting Foreign Ministry spokesman Thani Thongpakdi said the Thai Embassy in Washington had informed the ministry about Thaksin's invitation to appear.

The ambassador, Kittiphong na Ranong, was also invited to join the forum, he said.

Asked whether Thaksin would be able to attend, Thani said it was up to the US authorities to decide whether to allow him into the country.

Asked whether Thailand would seek his extradition if the former prime minister entered the country, Thani said the Office of the Attorney-General (OAG) would be responsible for making such a decision.

Thailand and the United States have an extradition agreement and the attorney-general could seek extradition if he were able to verify Thaksin's presence on US soil, he said.

However, Sirisak Tiyapan, director of the OAG's International Affairs Department, said it would be for the Foreign Ministry and the Police Commission to request extradition. Unless the two agencies made such a request, the OAG has no authority to do anything, he said.

"The Foreign Ministry and the police have done nothing [in this regard] so far," he said.

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-- The Nation 2010-12-07

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First, why would any reputable group want some one to give testimony which would be hear say? He has not been here for the time frame mentioned so his first hand knowledge is zilch.

Next, who says he can even get a visa for the US, that is not a overnight procedure if it were granted.

The US police depts regularly notify wanted suspects that they have won a prize/lottery and when they show up to collect. arrest them.

We have all forewarned anyone who may fall for this, so maybe we ruined the plan.

Still thin it mouthpiece bs.

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Me thinks the US will have no choice but to refuse him a visa just to avoid embarrassing Thailand.

Especially after the VB favor.

Anyway it will be interesting to see what happens.

I belive like the UK the US will try remain neutral and simple refuse entry.

What ever never mind! the sun is shining and its a glorious day to to the beach and chill out!

This assumes that the US immigration has the wherewithal to keep track of all of Thaksin's various passports.

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It makes you wonder (just a little bit) if THIS might be the payoff for Victor B.

Extradition of Thaksin to Thailand from the US? It would make me proud :)

Can anybody answer the following questions:

1. Is t barred from entry to the US?

2. This Helsinki Commision, what sort of a set up is this? Is it just sit and listen to t talk? Or would there be people there who are tasked to (and have sufficient background knowledge) to ask detailed relevant questions and to, if needed, challenge what t says?

Just another thought, has this OSCE / Helsinki Commission ever investigated t for his human rights abuses?

Wonder if someone should bring that to their attention and they could interview him on two cases at the same time.

I'm with you 'scorecard'. As soon as I saw this I started putting two and two together.

Extradition procedures have already been established between the US and Thailand with the recent Victor Bout case. The OSCE is essentially an NGO, as it does not have any veto over US authorities. If he does land in the US, I have no doubt the authorities will be there waiting for him to repay the favour to Thailand.

On the other point, however, there was a brief mention in the report of a discussion on incidents that occurred in the restive South. If they do get on to that subject, well he's got to be bang to rights...surely!

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It makes you wonder (just a little bit) if THIS might be the payoff for Victor B.

Extradition of Thaksin to Thailand from the US? It would make me proud :)

Can anybody answer the following questions:

1. Is t barred from entry to the US?

2. This Helsinki Commision, what sort of a set up is this? Is it just sit and listen to t talk? Or would there be people there who are tasked to (and have sufficient background knowledge) to ask detailed relevant questions and to, if needed, challenge what t says?

Just another thought, has this OSCE / Helsinki Commission ever investigated t for his human rights abuses?

Wonder if someone should bring that to their attention and they could interview him on two cases at the same time.

I'm with you 'scorecard'. As soon as I saw this I started putting two and two together.

Extradition procedures have already been established between the US and Thailand with the recent Victor Bout case. The OSCE is essentially an NGO, as it does not have any veto over US authorities. If he does land in the US, I have no doubt the authorities will be there waiting for him to repay the favour to Thailand.

On the other point, however, there was a brief mention in the report of a discussion on incidents that occurred in the restive South. If they do get on to that subject, well he's got to be bang to rights...surely!

Agree, if this commission is going to ask thaksin about the south then, if they want to seen as credible (and seen as not being selective) they should also question him about the south when he was the pm, obviously including the tak bai incident and more. If they don't include tak bai, etc., then surely they open themselves to severe criticism for being selective.

It still intrigues me as to how this commission and it's 'hearing' works:

- Do they just invite people to speak with no further q & a?

or, as mentioned earlier,

- Would there be people there who are tasked to (and have sufficient background knowledge) to ask detailed relevant specific questions and to, if needed, challenge what t says?

In fact, if the second arrangement is not part of the 'hearing' then how can this commission have any credibility about anything?

The whole thing seems pretty smelly to me:

- This commission is supposed to be focused on Europe.

- There are issues about thaksin even being allowed to enter the US, there are issues about the possibility of the US extraditing him . In fact one thought is that the US very probably doesn't want to be put in a corner, especially regarding extradition, and would perhaps on this angle alone refuse him entry.

What gives?

Is this just another fantasy of the mouthpiece?

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Here are some options regarding the 'news' article:

>>>> it's junk news, perpetrated by Noppadon and/or Amsterdam - who both keep playing the misinformation game on the world stage for all they milk it for.

>>>> It's a ruse concocted by US and Thai law enforcement, to nab the big T and ship him back to Thailand (BB's note: T in Thai custody would not bode well for the country's fractured political landscape).

Even if T were to appear in front of a group of US congressmen and women, they are not the type who are hamstrung by niceties & politecisms like Asian politicians. Some on the commission will rail in to Thaksin like a runaway potato cart. Indeed, the first question asked might be something like, "How can you, Mr. Thaksin, even pretend to represent human rights concerns when your record, while you were PM, is atrocious in that regard."

They might also add, "Mr. Thaksin, when you were interviewed on CNN during the political fracas of Spring 2009, you claimed unequivocally; there were multiple slayings of Red Shirt protesters by Thai government forces. Yet subsequent inquiries have found no such thing. Indeed, even the Red Shirt leaders themselves never followed up on those claims. So how can anyone believe anything you say, when you have such a long and lurid history of lying?"

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Foreign ministry ready to proceed extradition request of Thaksin from US if asked

BANGKOK: -- Thailand's Ministry of Foreign Affairs on Monday said it is prepared to send an extradition request for ousted ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra to the United States if requested by the Office of Attorney-General as the deposed premier plans to testify on Thailand's crackdown of anti-government protesters in Bangkok to a US agency next week.

Acting foreign ministry spokesman Thani Thongpakdi remarked after Thaksin legal adviser Noppadon Pattama announced that the convicted ex-premier accepted an invitation from the Commission on Security and Cooperation in Europe (CSCE) to testify on alleged human rights violations during Bangkok's deadly political demonstrations.

Mr Noppadon earlier said Mr Thaksin will arrive Washington Dec 16 and the CSCE briefing will consider alleged human rights violations during the political disorder in March-May which led to a number of deaths and injuries as well as following up on the insurgency situation in Thailand's three southernmost provinces, and the violation of freedom of expression of the media and public opinion which have been caused by the enforcement of a state of emergency.

Mr Thani, who is also deputy director-general of the foreign ministry's Department of Information, said the Thai embassy in Washington has informed Bangkok of possible appearance of the deposed premier there and that the Thai ambassador to Washington has also been invited to attend the briefing.

Mr Thani said the CSCE is an independent agency and it plans to hold a briefing on Thailand's situation, adding he does not know if Mr Thaksin will be allowed to enter the country as it depends on the consideration of the US authorities.

As Mr Thaksin has an outstanding arrest warrant on terrorism charges, the spokesman said, Thailand has an extradition treaty with the US in effect but it depends on the decision of the Office of Attorney-General (OAG).

"If the OAG coordinates with the foreign ministry (to seek extradition of the ex-premier), we are ready to proceed with the request," said Mr Thani, "but until now no request has been made as Mr Thaksin's address in the US must be identified first."

Deposed by a military coup in Sept 2006, Mr Thaksin now lives in exile abroad after evading a two-year jail term for violating a law on conflict of interest regarding a controversial Bangkok purchase of prime land.

Thailand's Criminal Court issued an arrest warrant for him on terrorism charges for being behind and funding the violent actions of the Red Shirts which led to grenade attacks and arson in the Thai capital and provinces in the North and Northeast during the March-May demonstrations.

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva commented on Monday that he is uncertain regarding Mr Thaksin's purpose in 'clarifying' to the CSCE on the human rights violations in the kingdom and that he has to wait for clearer details on Mr Thaksin's visit.

Mr Abhisit added the foreign ministry is duty-bound to consider whether they should seek the extradition of the fugitive premier or not. (MCOT online news)

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-- TNA 2010-12-07

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If it is a legitimate invite from members of the U.S. Congress, it is highly unlikely Mr. Thaksin would be arrested as it would be an affront to Congress. In the event that was planned, the wisest move would be to bar entry. That way a headache is avoided.

In order for an extradition request to be honoured it would have to be submitted through diplomatic channels (wikileak alert :whistling: ) and the the crime has to be an extraditable offense, with the supporting documents properly certified in accordance with 18 U.S.C. § 3190. Has Thailand done that on short notice? Is the crime Mr. Thaksin is accused of by Thailand covered by the extradition treaty?

Here's what we know;

- Former Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra was found guilty of corruption and sentenced to two years jail time.

- ARTICLE 2- Extraditable Offenses:(1) An offense shall be an extraditable offense for prosecution or for the imposition of a penalty or detention order only if it is punishable under the laws of both Contracting Parties by imprisonment or other form of detention for a period of more than one year or by any greater punishment.

Ok, so it looks like he comes under to the treaty.

But wait kids, there's a catch.

- ARTICLE 3 -Political and Military Offenses

(1) Extradition shall not be granted when:

(a) the offense for which extradition is sought is a political offense ;

or

b ) it is established that extradition is requested for political purposes

I wouldn't be surprised for Mr. Thaksin to claim the conviction was a political setup. In consideration of the fact that he was overthrown by way of a military coup, he might be able to convince a judge of that.

In any case, it would create a mess. I don't anticipate Mr. Thaksin appearing unless it is by video conferencing.

Edited by geriatrickid
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If it is a legitimate invite from members of the U.S. Congress, it is highly unlikely Mr. Thaksin would be arrested as it would be an affront to Congress. In the event that was planned, the wisest move would be to bar entry. That way a headache is avoided.

In order for an extradition request to be honoured it would have to be submitted through diplomatic channels (wikileak alert :whistling: ) and the the crime has to be an extraditable offense, with the supporting documents properly certified in accordance with 18 U.S.C. § 3190. Has Thailand done that on short notice? Is the crime Mr. Thaksin is accused of by Thailand covered by the extradition treaty?

Here's what we know;

- Former Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra was found guilty of corruption and sentenced to two years jail time.

- ARTICLE 2- Extraditable Offenses:(1) An offense shall be an extraditable offense for prosecution or for the imposition of a penalty or detention order only if it is punishable under the laws of both Contracting Parties by imprisonment or other form of detention for a period of more than one year or by any greater punishment.

Ok, so it looks like he comes under to the treaty.

But wait kids, there's a catch.

- ARTICLE 3 -Political and Military Offenses

(1) Extradition shall not be granted when:

(a) the offense for which extradition is sought is a political offense ;

or

b ) it is established that extradition is requested for political purposes

I wouldn't be surprised for Mr. Thaksin to claim the conviction was a political setup. In consideration of the fact that he was overthrown by way of a military coup, he might be able to convince a judge of that.

In any case, it would create a mess. I don't anticipate Mr. Thaksin appearing unless it is by video conferencing.

All very valid points but he is a fugitive and was convicted in a court of law which the US recognizes and Thailand also has an extradition treaty with the US. Not to mention it seems a little too coincidental that all of a sudden the US invites Thaksin to the US weeks after the whole Russian extradition thing. The US has a good relationship with Thailand and I cannot imagine they would want to slap the ruling powers in Thailand in the face by having Thaksin freely come and go into the USA. You may be very right on this but something sounds fishy here and I have a feeling Thaksin is a no show ... if he is smart.

And not only is he a fugitive in a country the US has an extradition treaty with but he is also wanted, for at least questioning, related to terrorism. Again this is all just very bad for the US if they let him freely enter and leave the country freely.

PS. I believe the articles you mention need to be decided by a court. In other words, he should still be arrested and then go to court for an extradition hearing if he decides to fight extradition. At that time the court would decide these issues.

Edited by Nisa
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Abhisit says he talked to Obama about iPAD, not Thaksin's extradition

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva said Tuesday that he had talked to US President Barack Obama about iPAD, not about extradition of former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

While attending the weekly Cabinet meeting, Abhisit denied a report by Wikileaks that he and Obama discussed extraction of alleged Russian arms dealer Viktor Bout in exchange for Thaksin's extradition.

Speculations had it that Thaksin had been lured to Washington DC by a standing parliamentary committee to be arrested and extradited to Thailand in return for Bout's extradition.

"We only talked about iPAD," Abhisit said, when reporters asked him to confirm the Wikileaks report.

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-- The Nation 2010-12-07

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Let's see...cops setup arrest stings in the US all the time.....Victor Bout was invited in a similar sting operation to Thailand. The US owes Thailand big time for giving them Victor Bout....hmmm. His ego is so big he probably doesn't see it coming.....

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This is a trap. This is the 2nd half of the Bout-Thaksin exchange deal. Thai government jet may be parked in US waiting already.

For once I actually agree with something Kh P says.

Not just Kh P but many here in Bkk have said the same thing to me, Thailand gave Bout to America in exchange for Thaksin.

I really don't think Thailand would want him back in Thailand.

The red shirts would just use him for propaganda to stir up more trouble.

As to him attending a commission on Human Rites it makes sense to me.

He could show them how to orchestrate and carry out a campaign to abuse human rites.

After all he is a master he has done it twice.:(

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Thaksin is many things, but he is not an idiot. He will not go the US. This is a non-story.

Possibly.

But if he does go to the US, says his piece and departs it will be hard for his enemies to claim he is permanently on the run from one third world dump to another.It will be hard for Thailand to pretend most countries don't consider any extradition request politically motivated and it will be hard for those forum members whose main interest is castigating Thaksin that the wider world shares their views.In fact quite a few people will have egg on their faces, especially little Kasit (not so much Abhisit who is not pushing the matter so much)

If - assuming Thaksin does travel to the US - the Thais say that for some technical reason an extradition request was not served (for Thailand and the US have a valid treaty) you can be sure they have been told in advance by the State Department they are wasting their time.If Thaksin doesn't travel then not only does he seem rather cowardly but in addition I think that this will be evidence that extradition proceedings represent a clear and present danger for him - somewhere, sometime.

Just speculation on my part and we will soon know the score.I do feel that Thailand (and Abhisit) has a lot of goodwill internationally so perhaps Thaksin will be shipped back to Bangkok.I honestly don't know - nor do I suspect do most other people.

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Thaksin is many things, but he is not an idiot. He will not go the US. This is a non-story.

Possibly.

But if he does go to the US, says his piece and departs it will be hard for his enemies to claim he is permanently on the run from one third world dump to another.It will be hard for Thailand to pretend most countries don't consider any extradition request politically motivated and it will be hard for those forum members whose main interest is castigating Thaksin that the wider world shares their views.In fact quite a few people will have egg on their faces, especially little Kasit (not so much Abhisit who is not pushing the matter so much)

If - assuming Thaksin does travel to the US - the Thais say that for some technical reason an extradition request was not served (for Thailand and the US have a valid treaty) you can be sure they have been told in advance by the State Department they are wasting their time.If Thaksin doesn't travel then not only does he seem rather cowardly but in addition I think that this will be evidence that extradition proceedings represent a clear and present danger for him - somewhere, sometime.

Just speculation on my part and we will soon know the score.I do feel that Thailand (and Abhisit) has a lot of goodwill internationally so perhaps Thaksin will be shipped back to Bangkok.I honestly don't know - nor do I suspect do most other people.

I would put money on your second scenario. We know what kind of backbone Thaksin has already. i.e. none.

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I did a check of the OSCE web site including coming hearings,

and a search of 'Thaksin' and search of 'Thailand'.

Absolutely NOTHING about either.

Still nothing posted, which seems odd given that they are supposedly only 9 days away.

It would seem with the hullabaloo, that somewhere, someone would confirm the hearings.... someone other than Noppadon.

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I personally don't believe there was any invitation, and the whole story is a hoax by T's attorneys to try to add a bit of respect to his rightfully trashed image. However, if Thaksin were to go to the US for such a meeting, and if the panel members were to even mention Thaksin's past abuses of human rights (Tak Bai, extra-judicial murders, etc) you can bet Mr. Amsterdam will interject with a loud and quick, "Sir, my client is not the one on trial here!"

I am a working person with no criminal record, still USA refuse my tourist visa application. How can Thaksin get a visa? Thaksin has no job, plus has a criminal record.

money, honey.

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I personally don't believe there was any invitation, and the whole story is a hoax by T's attorneys to try to add a bit of respect to his rightfully trashed image. However, if Thaksin were to go to the US for such a meeting, and if the panel members were to even mention Thaksin's past abuses of human rights (Tak Bai, extra-judicial murders, etc) you can bet Mr. Amsterdam will interject with a loud and quick, "Sir, my client is not the one on trial here!"

I am a working person with no criminal record, still USA refuse my tourist visa application. How can Thaksin get a visa? Thaksin has no job, plus has a criminal record.

money, honey.

Well you may be right but you're putting yourself firmly in the camp that shortly could look rather silly if the invitation is real.(Not a fault in my view:I make predictions all the time - often completely off beam!)

The FT of 2 December has some interesting background including the nugget that little Kasit didn't even raise the subject of extradition when he visited Montenegro

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/d4d9da1e-fd65-11df-a049-00144feab49a,dwp_uuid=672232c6-1385-11de-9e32-0000779fd2ac.html#axzz17Oq0SNJC

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Thailand's fugitive ex-PM to speak to US panel: official

BANGKOK, December 7, 2010 (AFP) - Thailand's fugitive former prime minister is to give evidence to a US government human rights panel on deadly "Red Shirt" anti-government protests in the kingdom, officials have confirmed.

Thaksin Shinawatra, who was ousted by a 2006 military coup and lives abroad to avoid a jail term for corruption, has been a vocal critic of the Thai government response to the Bangkok rallies, which saw dozens killed in clashes.

The former billionaire telecoms tycoon's invitation to Washington comes after the United States' protracted legal battle for the extradition of alleged Russian arms dealer Viktor Bout, who was eventually extradited last month.

It is unclear whether Thailand will ask for Thaksin's extradition should he set foot on US soil, although Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva has rejected suggestions that there was a deal to swap the ex-leader for Bout.

Neil Simon, spokesman for the Helsinki Commission, an official US watchdog overseeing human rights and other issues, confirmed late Monday that the event was planned for December 16.

In a letter to the former premier, the panel said the "recent crackdown on political protesters" was of "particular interest".

Thaksin drew wide support from Thailand's rural poor when he was in office and is still held in high regard by many Red Shirts, who accuse the current government of being elitist and undemocratic.

The Reds' rally demanding immediate elections overwhelmed the retail heart of Bangkok for two months before a military crackdown brought the demonstration to a bloody end in May.

More than 90 people were left dead and nearly 1,900 injured in unrest during the protests and many of those killed were civilians.

"I welcome the fact that the US authorities have recognized that the horrific human rights atrocities that occurred in April and May this year are to be fully and independently investigated," Thaksin said in a statement responding to the invitation.

Thai government spokesman Panitan Wattanayagorn said Tuesday authorities were considering whether to send a representative to testify at the hearing.

afplogo.jpg

-- (c) Copyright AFP 2010-12-07

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