Austrian Man Accused Of Conducting Lewd Acts With Minors In Pattaya

[geriatrickid]

.

] .......maybe the officials who write "reports" about Austria and have their UN offices in Vienna should learn some German in order to be able to read local newspapers. As I stated bef. there have been several trials against child offenders when they came back...or had been deported. I doubt that the USA do the same, paying flights for witnesses and their parents or employes of NGOs. BTW I have been a lawyer for 25 years and I am happy that our jurisdiction is different to the jurisdiction in the USA. At least we don t have a place like Guantanamo and waterboarding is not known in my country....and in other civilized EU countries,too.

Mrs. Astrid Winkler is an Austrian national. Ecpat Austria's offices are located here Address : Alserstraße 21/5 A-1080 Wien/Vienna Austria.

You state that you have been a lawyer for 25 years. There is a difference between a real estate conveyance clerk, a commercial transaction processor, a criminal law lawyer and a notary. I take it then that you have 25 years experience in International law and Criminal law. Congratulations. Now please cite the cases where charges were brought and a conviction obtained. There have been some cases where the most egregious of cases were brought against human trafficers but these charges were forced upon Austria because of EU pressure.These cases did not involve child sex tourists. Again, I ask you name one case in the past year where an Austrian was charged in Austria. How about the past two years?

The issue here is not the USA. The prosecution of Austrian child molestors has nothing to do with Guatanamo or waterboarding. They are not even related, but are a seperate attempt by you to change the subject. You are drowning now. TVF has provided several examples in the past year where U.S. nationals have been charged and convicted. Why are you obsessing on the USA? Australia and Canada have the same approach, although Australia has been more effective, simply because the Australians have a specific unit and Canada and the USA roll the sex crimes into other functions. Austria is hardly the leader in bringing justice in these cases.

As an aside, people that graduate at the bottom of their law class can pass the bar exam and practice law. Possessing a law diploma doesn't necessarily make a person a competent lawyer.

Edited December 27, 2010 by geriatrickid

[Ulysses G.]

At least we don t have a place like Guantanamo and waterboarding is not known in my country....and in other civilized EU countries,too.

So Austria is perfect? How about Joseph Fritzl and his dungeon? Wasn't he from Austria? At least that is on topic.

[Nisa]

How is KY evidence of a crime? All this other stuff here has been said 1000 times every time there is a pedo case discussed here. We might as well just have one thread to include them all, the discussions are so predictable. Yes, everyone wants such people arrested and convicted. Some people want them hanged, drawn and quartered, burned at the stake, tarred and feathered, dropped in acid, and/or genitally mutiliated. When there is gay sex involved, there is always a homophobe or two here telling lies that pedo crimes are mostly gay, or that all gays are pedos. And so it goes. Nothing new, and the next arrest, we will hear the same, ad nauseum, ad infinitum. What's the point of going over the SAME territory 1000 times?

However, this pattern which I have indeed observed over the years of the police confiscating and the press reporting of "evidence of lubrication" has not been adequately discussed here on this board EVER, in my view. I am NOT talking about this one case. I am talking about a clear pattern that has been going on for many years.

In the west, you simply don't read such reports on these arrests. Underage porn confiscations, yes of course, but here apparently legal age porn is criminalized as well. Evidence of lubrication and possession of "lube", no you don't hear that reported.

It's worth noting that when the police here find sex toys and that is reported, that is a different thing because sex toys are illegal in Thailand, and much as most expats find that an absurd law, it is the law, so confiscation and reporting about that is logical.

I continue to contend there is something insidiously and institutionally homophobic in this pattern of police action and press reporting in Thailand, specifically about "evidence of lubrication" and the way it's used to throw "gay dirt" on crime suspects.

Actually, I can see how this may better be discussed as a separate general issue (institutional police homophobia in Thailand and the cooperation of the press), but it came up here in this thread, another pedo arrest, and another report of lubrication confiscation, it seemed like an opportunity to bring this up as an issue (and a way to introduce something new into a predictable and dreary subject area).

As an expat matter, the Thai police are the Thai police. This is Thailand. We are foreigners. However, I think the expat press should consider not participating in the homophobia here and strongly consider NOT reporting on incidents of possession of lubrication.

I think you are the only one here obsessing about lubricant and believing the mention of it is some how ant-gay. Very odd considering we don't even know if this guy is gay and the lubricant seized was in the context of what he may be doing with it as it relates to children. Might be a good idea for you to start a new anti-lube thread or petition to have all mention of lubricants in any context banned in the press since you are unable to think about lubricant without believing it is attacking gays.

Edited December 27, 2010 by Nisa

[NanLaew]

How is KY evidence of a crime? When there is gay sex involved, there is always a homophobe or two here telling lies that pedo crimes are mostly gay, or that all gays are pedos. And so it goes. Nothing new, and the next arrest, we will hear the same, ad nauseum, ad infinitum.

However, this pattern which I have indeed observed over the years of the police confiscating and the press reporting of "evidence of lubrication" has not been adequately discussed here on this board EVER, in my view. I am NOT talking about this one case. I am talking about a clear pattern that has been going on for many years.

In the west, you simply don't read such reports on these arrests. Underage porn confiscations, yes of course, but here apparently legal age porn is criminalized as well. Evidence of lubrication and possession of "lube", no you don't hear that reported.

I continue to contend there is something insidiously and institutionally homophobic in this pattern of police action and press reporting in Thailand, specifically about "evidence of lubrication" and the way it's used to throw "gay dirt" on crime suspects.

As an expat matter, the Thai police are the Thai police. This is Thailand. We are foreigners. However, I think the expat press should consider not participating in the homophobia here and strongly consider NOT reporting on incidents of possession of lubrication.

I think you are the only one here obsessing about lubricant and believing the mention of it is some how ant-gay. Very odd considering we don't even know if this guy is gay and the lubricant seized was in the context of what he may be doing with it as it relates to children. Might be a good idea for you to start a new anti-lube thread or petition to have all mention of lubricants in any context banned in the press since you are unable to think about lubricant without believing it is attacking gays.

..or he could quit using lubricant and hence 'feel' better about this perceived wholesale persecution of people of a certain sexual persuasion.

We have the Austrian male involved with two Thai male juveniles. Homosexuality isn't being prosecuted here, it's pedophilia. If this guy was caught with two Thai female juveniles, he would still be prosecuted for pedophilia, the cops and media would STILL be talking up 'confiscated lubricants' and jingthing wouldn't have started this 'debate' now would you?

jingthing.... most times you are a star but in this instance you definitely fall into the 'think too mut' category. When you consider how acceptance of homosexuality in your home country is a quite recent event, why should one expect the same acceptance in this morally moribund country city where you now chose to live?

[NanLaew]

At least we don t have a place like Guantanamo and waterboarding is not known in my country....and in other civilized EU countries,too.

So Austria is perfect? How about Joseph Fritzl and his dungeon? Wasn't he from Austria? At least that is on topic.

And Adolf... wasn't he born in Braunau am Inn after all?

Now THAT should get this thread of senseless conjecture, name-calling and self-imposed social stigmatization well and truly buried!

[cdnvic]

Hitler? Guantanamo? Get back on topic please.

[fruity]

Merry xmas Walter...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA....Obviously, not the best Yultide old Walter will have enjoyed!

How, one wonders, do these people think they can get away with this type of behaviour? Surely, someone, sometime is going to get suspicious? Amazing!

[Jingthing]

We have the Austrian male involved with two Thai male juveniles. Homosexuality isn't being prosecuted here, it's pedophilia. If this guy was caught with two Thai female juveniles, he would still be prosecuted for pedophilia, the cops and media would STILL be talking up 'confiscated lubricants' and jingthing wouldn't have started this 'debate' now would you?

No, I think you are wrong, and you helped prove my point. If the target of a particular arrested man was females, and lubricants were found, the police would NOT have mentioned lubricants if found (and of course neither would the press). I feel I have framed this issue quite well -- there is institutionalized homophobia in Thailand at play here (and it is pervasive all across Thai society). If you don't get my argument, not sure what more I can do about that as I did my best to communicate it. I think I have also made it crystal clear I am not talking about this one case only, rather a clear and definite PATTERN that has been happening for many years.

Also note, I agree that a true pedo clinically isn't really gay or straight in the usual sense. Their sexual thing is prepubescent children, and they commonly can go for either sex. Some will tend to go for one sex or another, and practically speaking, both the police and the public will tend to classify a particular one as gay or straight based on the sex of their targets. To the poster who is concerned about this labeling, I fully get your point. Of course, not everyone arrested for underage sex crimes is actually a pedophile clinically speaking. (If you don't understand that point, just google.)

However, get real, the police and the press, knowing the same sex nature of the targets here, and also whenever there are same sex targets, they do indeed go with the gay label. Thus they go for the perfectly legal lubricants because of the gay connection, which they want to establish because they know full well throwing gay dirt on a suspect helps with conviction.

Edited December 27, 2010 by Jingthing

[Murat]

.

] .......maybe the officials who write "reports" about Austria and have their UN offices in Vienna should learn some German in order to be able to read local newspapers. As I stated bef. there have been several trials against child offenders when they came back...or had been deported. I doubt that the USA do the same, paying flights for witnesses and their parents or employes of NGOs. BTW I have been a lawyer for 25 years and I am happy that our jurisdiction is different to the jurisdiction in the USA. At least we don t have a place like Guantanamo and waterboarding is not known in my country....and in other civilized EU countries,too.

Mrs. Astrid Winkler is an Austrian national. Ecpat Austria's offices are located here Address : Alserstraße 21/5 A-1080 Wien/Vienna Austria.

You state that you have been a lawyer for 25 years. There is a difference between a real estate conveyance clerk, a commercial transaction processor, a criminal law lawyer and a notary. I take it then that you have 25 years experience in International law and Criminal law. Congratulations. Now please cite the cases where charges were brought and a conviction obtained. There have been some cases where the most egregious of cases were brought against human trafficers but these charges were forced upon Austria because of EU pressure.These cases did not involve child sex tourists. Again, I ask you name one case in the past year where an Austrian was charged in Austria. How about the past two years?

The issue here is not the USA. The prosecution of Austrian child molestors has nothing to do with Guatanamo or waterboarding. They are not even related, but are a seperate attempt by you to change the subject. You are drowning now. TVF has provided several examples in the past year where U.S. nationals have been charged and convicted. Why are you obsessing on the USA? Australia and Canada have the same approach, although Australia has been more effective, simply because the Australians have a specific unit and Canada and the USA roll the sex crimes into other functions. Austria is hardly the leader in bringing justice in these cases.

As an aside, people that graduate at the bottom of their law class can pass the bar exam and practice law. Possessing a law diploma doesn't necessarily make a person a competent lawyer.

I think it makes no sense to go on discussing with you, I am not interested and I have a life beyond internet forums. So keep on watching Fox TV and have fun in the old people s home. BTW In Austria it takes more than passing some "law classes" to be able to practice as a lawyer, I had to study 5 years then at the university, get my Dr. degree, work at the court and practice in a law firm for another 5 years. After another exame I was allowed to have my own office and I am qualified to represent clients in the whole EU .

[Nisa]

We have the Austrian male involved with two Thai male juveniles. Homosexuality isn't being prosecuted here, it's pedophilia. If this guy was caught with two Thai female juveniles, he would still be prosecuted for pedophilia, the cops and media would STILL be talking up 'confiscated lubricants' and jingthing wouldn't have started this 'debate' now would you?

No, I think you are wrong, and you helped prove my point. If the target of a particular arrested man was females, and lubricants were found, the police would NOT have mentioned lubricants if found (and of course neither would the press). I feel I have framed this issue quite well -- there is institutionalized homophobia in Thailand at play here (and it is pervasive all across Thai society). If you don't get my argument, not sure what more I can do about that as I did my best to communicate it. I think I have also made it crystal clear I am not talking about this one case only, rather a clear and definite PATTERN that has been happening for many years.

Also note, I agree that a true pedo clinically isn't really gay or straight in the usual sense. Their sexual thing is prepubescent children, and they commonly can go for either sex. Some will tend to go for one sex or another, and practically speaking, both the police and the public will tend to classify a particular one as gay or straight based on the sex of their targets. To the poster who is concerned about this labeling, I fully get your point. Of course, not everyone arrested for underage sex crimes is actually a pedophile clinically speaking. (If you don't understand that point, just google.)

However, get real, the police and the press, knowing the same sex nature of the targets here, and also whenever there are same sex targets, they do indeed go with the gay label. Thus they go for the perfectly legal lubricants because of the gay connection, which they want to establish because they know full well throwing gay dirt on a suspect helps with conviction.

There was NOTHING in this news story that even remotely came close to suggesting anything negative towards gays. This is all in your head. Assuming the article is true then the lube needed to be confiscated with anything else remotely that might help him to be prosecuted or admit his crime as well as to investigate if he committed other illegal acts with children. Maybe you have a point about Thai society, media and police but there was NOTHING in this particular story that should be taken as offensive if you are gay. And you are wrong to believe they would not confiscate lube in the case of young girls in this same situation. Whether or not it got mentioned in the press .. I don't know but neither do you unless you have first hand knowledge of such happenings. The reality is you are grasping at straws with this news story to promote an entirely different agenda. There just can be no other way to explain to you that this was indeed potential evidence and I think most people reading a story like this like to get at many facts as possible and if that includes a list of items seized then so be it ... lets not start censoring now because of irrational thought processes. Again, you may have a very valid point in general but there was nothing wrong with the reporting of lubricant as long as other items seized were not omitted.

Edited December 27, 2010 by Nisa

[Thongkorn]

Just makes you wonder how many of these rock spiders are crawling around the gutters of Pattaya. How many is this now in the last month? Well into double figures. As a parent who loves his kids very much I personally would not take my children within 100 kms of Pattaya. They place frightens the hell out me hearing all the horrible stories comming out of the place everyday. (murders, serious assaults and pedophilles to name just a few)

Most descent Thais would not be seen dead in Pattaya , All Abuse of people women or men at any age for sex is wrong , I take it many people (falang) can speak Thai. When you know some of these so called low life hores and prostitutes you will find some genuine people . many do not want to be there and are there because of circumstance. So who is worse those who use them or them for being there.

[Nawtier]

If i get caught masturbating with a tube of KY...whats the penalty ??

[Jingthing]

Again, you may have a very valid point in general but there was nothing wrong with the reporting of lubricant as long as other items seized were not omitted.

Again, you kind of missed my point. Items seized that are illicit, such as sex toys which are illegal in Thailand, and porn, which is illegal in Thailand especially of course child porn as was reported in this case, ARE legitimate to confiscate and report about. Legal lube? I think not. It is not illegal and it is not evidence of anything, except it does suggest a man may be into homosexual sex (not illegal), but it doesn't link to illicit underage sex, and just as well may have been used for self masturbation, still legal in Thailand. Perhaps you don't believe the observation I have made about how "evidence of lubrication" is often mentioned by police and also reported in the expat press in cases when homosexuals or people assumed to be homosexuals are arrested in Pattaya. You may also may not know that even in cases where there is no sexual aspect, the police and press quite often report on the homosexuality of suspects, quite obviously as a tactic to discredit the perp even more. Sound homophobic to you? It does to me. Does this particular perp we are talking about deserve prosecution if guilty? Yes, we all agree on that. However, I am arguing these cases don't need the additional and unnecessary amplification of throwing gay dirt, and making a show of confiscating legal lubrication is exactly that, to get convictions.

Edited December 27, 2010 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

If i get caught masturbating with a tube of KY...whats the penalty ??

It's clearly bad for business. Watch out!

[Beetlejuice]

If i get caught masturbating with a tube of KY...whats the penalty ??

Don`t do it!

It makes women grow beards and men go blind, it`s a medical fact.

[Nisa]

Again, you may have a very valid point in general but there was nothing wrong with the reporting of lubricant as long as other items seized were not omitted.

Again, you kind of missed my point. Items seized that are illicit, such as sex toys which are illegal in Thailand, and porn, which is illegal in Thailand especially of course child porn as was reported in this case, ARE legitimate to confiscate and report about. Legal lube? I think not. It is not illegal and it is not evidence of anything, except it does suggest a man may be into homosexual sex (not illegal), but it doesn't link to illicit underage sex, and just as well may have been used for self masturbation, still legal in Thailand. Perhaps you don't believe the observation I have made about how "evidence of lubrication" is often mentioned by police and also reported in the expat press in cases when homosexuals or people assumed to be homosexuals are arrested in Pattaya. You may also may not know that even in cases where there is no sexual aspect, the police and press quite often report on the homosexuality of suspects, quite obviously as a tactic to discredit the perp even more. Sound homophobic to you? It does to me. Does this particular perp we are talking about deserve prosecution if guilty? Yes, we all agree on that. However, I am arguing these cases don't need the additional and unnecessary amplification of throwing gay dirt, and making a show of confiscating legal lubrication is exactly that, to get convictions.

Porn, including child porn, is not illegal to possesses. It is illegal to sell, distribute and probably purchase and display in public but it is NOT illegal to posses.

Circumstantial evidence doesn't by definition mean the evidence is illegal. Circumstantial evidence is used is almost every prosecution. You are very way off base here and the only person you seem to be listening to is yourself.

It is also not illegal to possess a diary where you have written down that you hated somebody but you can be dam_n sure that would be booked into evidence and used against you in court if you were suspected of killing this person.

Being in the area of a bank robbery while having past convictions of bank robberies is also not illegal but you can be dam_n sure this to would be included with other evidence if you were arrested for the robbery.

I can go on and on trying to explain to you why it is utterly absurd for you to take this news report and try to turn it into an anti gay story but you seem to be convinced that you are doing some kind of positive thing by turning this perfectly valid* news report of a pedophile raping little boys into some kind of gay issue. Personally I have a hard time hearing/believing any point you are trying make by using the example of lubricant being mentioned in "this" article. As a suggestion, I would really sight other examples where the press and/or police have demonized gays if you are trying to bring awareness to a real situation. Using this article seems to make you sound very paranoid and obsessed with lubricant.

* I don't buy fully into any news report, especially here in the LOS, but this one appears to have the facts and was reported well ... at least in the longer version.

[geriatrickid]

I think it makes no sense to go on discussing with you, I am not interested and I have a life beyond internet forums. So keep on watching Fox TV and have fun in the old people s home. BTW In Austria it takes more than passing some "law classes" to be able to practice as a lawyer, I had to study 5 years then at the university, get my Dr. degree, work at the court and practice in a law firm for another 5 years. After another exame I was allowed to have my own office and I am qualified to represent clients in the whole EU .

You have not engaged in any discussion but have instead made statements that you can not substantiate with any examples. Not one case. You have been given several opportunities and yet you continue to attempt to make your case by stating that you are a qualified lawyer. You may have articled for 5 years, but it seems that you have no litigation experience. Your approach is not indicative of somone with any international or criminal law experience. For you not to grasp the basic principles of evidence in respect to the requirement for an Austrian representative of the police or prosecutors's office to verify the evidence and ensure that it is reliable speaks volumes. That is the procedure. Your 5 years at a university in order to obtain a JD diploma in the law does not make you an expert in criminal or international law. Nor does having done the clerking for senior members for an additional 5 years. Whoopdeedoo. My first diploma was a B.Sc. and it sure didn't qualify me as an expert in infectious diseases. Optometrists and Chiropracters call themselves doctors too, but these are not true doctorates requiring research, teaching and a thesis. The JD is not the equivalent of a true doctorate, which is why someone with an LLM has higher standing at a convocation than someone with a JD. Go and and convince someone that doesn't have a the academic experience ok?

It's great that you can work in the EU. That's what the rules say. However, you still haven't dealt with the one issue that you contested and that is to provide the case references to the prosecution of Austrian nationals for child sex tourism. Instead you offered misleading information. As a self proclaimed lawyer, surely you know that if you did that in court it would be grounds for disbarment and you would be filing real estate deeds for the rest of your life. By any chance are you actually a paralegal and have had a Walter Minty moment and declared yourself a lawyer?

BTW, I do not watch FOX, I am not an American citizen, and I am nowhere near being in a seniors residence. I am most probably younger than you with your 25 years international and criminal law career. Now off you go to make believe land.

[TAWP]

If i get caught masturbating with a tube of KY...whats the penalty ??

I will probably point and laugh...no reason for a single man to ever need to DIY in Thailand...if he is of decent looks/character.

[Jingthing]

Porn, including child porn, is not illegal to possesses. It is illegal to sell, distribute and probably purchase and display in public but it is NOT illegal to posses.

I am pretty certain you are WRONG about the child porn (I think it IS illegal to possess) but I am unclear on the legal age porn. In any case, I wouldn't trust either you or me on this unless we get an authoritative opinion from a Thai lawyer. If I am wrong, good call from you, but again, are you a Thai lawyer? (I didn't think so.)

On your other points, we will have to agree to disagree. You have made it clear that you don't believe or trust my observations of reading the expat press here for many years now in regard to the homophobic ways in which both the local police and local press deal with homosexuals and gay sex related new stories. Fine, but I can't imagine why anyone would make up a pattern of reports of lubrication confiscation specifically from gay men or when male to male sex acts are involved in the case. That would be really bizarre. As I have said repeatedly, my comments aren't about this one case, but a long pervasive pattern. Due to your clear lack of respect for my credibility, I don't think we have anything more to discuss.

Edited December 27, 2010 by Jingthing

[Nisa]

Porn, including child porn, is not illegal to possesses. It is illegal to sell, distribute and probably purchase and display in public but it is NOT illegal to posses.

I am pretty certain you are WRONG about the child porn (I think it IS illegal to possess) but I am unclear on the legal age porn. In any case, I wouldn't trust either you or me on this unless we get an authoritative opinion from a Thai lawyer. If I am wrong, good call from you, but again, are you a Thai lawyer? (I didn't think so.)

On your other points, we will have to agree to disagree. You have made it clear that you don't believe or trust my observations of reading the expat press here for many years now in regard to the homophobic ways in which both the local police and local press deal with homosexuals and gay sex related new stories. Fine, but I can't imagine why anyone would make up a pattern of reports of lubrication confiscation specifically from gay men or when male to male sex acts are involved in the case. That would be really bizarre. As I have said repeatedly, my comments aren't about this one case, but a long pervasive pattern. Due to your clear lack of respect for my credibility, I don't think we have anything more to discuss.

You appear to be doing the same thing with my replies to you as you have done with this news story . You are viewing things in a way to fit what it is you want to believe.

As for the possession of child porn why not simply look up the law (it doesn't exist) or simply find a news story about somebody being charged in Thailand for being in "possession" of child porn (there are none). Again, distribution and production of any type is illegal but possession is not ... unless they have changed the laws in the last few years. But i didn't see anywhere that this guy was charged with possession of child porn and only that it was collected as evidence.

As I've stated numerous times .. you "may" have a valid point of how gays are portrayed by police and media but this is not an example of that and you are hurting your credibility to bring awareness to what you claim is a real problem by using this mention of lubricant to make us believe there is some hidden gay slander here instead of it just being what it is which is evidence collected. In addition to all the previous reason mentioned by me and others there is likely another big reason to collect this as it may very well been used to commit anal sex against children which is a more severe crime then oral sex. If other reports or evidence comes to light that shows he went beyond oral sex ... this lubricant can be the tipping point of guilt. Especially if another child reports his using KY before being assaulted. Had the cops not collected it then the child's statements could be questioned (doubted) since the man had no lubricant in his dwelling. Could be he just used it when he was alone but that is not the way police are trained to think when collecting evidence.

The only thing wrong with reporting such details and evidence collection, and why they don't do it more advanced societies, is because it can taint the prosecution. In the above example I used it could also be said the child only reported the use of KY because it was mentioned in the press. But again, there is ABSOLUTELY no way any rational person (gay or otherwise) could see this article as part of some conspiracy or broader issue to demean gays. However, I certainly could see how a gay person might be a bit concerned that ignorant people might believe this guy was gay, not simply a child predator, because the victims mentioned were boys. Maybe they should not have mentioned that too but the fact is we live in a world were people like to read these details and that is what both sells newspapers and helps promote the police's interest.

I also saw no mention of this guy having Gay DVD's. So again, not sure how or why you are trying to make a point about gays being portrayed in the media badly because a suspected child molester had lubricant. NOTHING in this story says anything about this guy being attracted to men (gay) and nothing even hints at his being gay. For all we know he is married but the only thing that appears to be evident is he enjoys sex with young boys as well as watching young boys have sex.

[housepainter]

I don't think thjere's anything to rejoice at about this story.

The boye themselves were hardly being abused involuntarily and at least one had engaged willingly in sexual activities at least three times. It is alarming at the lack of police response and the way they go about it. All this debate generated on here about lubricants is purely anal [pun intended]. Why not ask the boys if they were anally raped, as due to their age, that is the offence.

Pattaya is a place that offers these services and no one is concerned about stopping it.

Furthermore, did he travel from Austrai with his collection of pedophile DVDs or did he openly buy them on Beach Road? That's more of a rhetorical question so don't like awake at night worrying over it.

That passport is disconcerting. I thought since 9-11 we all had to have pass port photos that showed face front, no smiling. I've never seen anything like this publicity shot of a glad to be here pedophile.

They should deport him after he is sentenced to time in a Thai prison. Then despite Fritzl and his ilk, maybe it's possible for a country like Austria to do the right thing.

For thosw of you with the know how, accessing a few Austrain web sites and posting a link to the story especially anything in or around his home town etc etc may be a nice post Xmas present to pass on for him.

[Nisa]

I don't think thjere's anything to rejoice at about this story.

The boye themselves were hardly being abused involuntarily and at least one had engaged willingly in sexual activities at least three times. It is alarming at the lack of police response and the way they go about it. All this debate generated on here about lubricants is purely anal [pun intended]. Why not ask the boys if they were anally raped, as due to their age, that is the offence.

Pattaya is a place that offers these services and no one is concerned about stopping it.

Furthermore, did he travel from Austrai with his collection of pedophile DVDs or did he openly buy them on Beach Road? That's more of a rhetorical question so don't like awake at night worrying over it.

That passport is disconcerting. I thought since 9-11 we all had to have pass port photos that showed face front, no smiling. I've never seen anything like this publicity shot of a glad to be here pedophile.

They should deport him after he is sentenced to time in a Thai prison. Then despite Fritzl and his ilk, maybe it's possible for a country like Austria to do the right thing.

For thosw of you with the know how, accessing a few Austrain web sites and posting a link to the story especially anything in or around his home town etc etc may be a nice post Xmas present to pass on for him.

I am not sure how diligent the police here will be but because the crime of sodomy on a child is more severe than oral, the lubricant does really come into play. Not sure about these kid't thought process but I believe most kids will find it easier to admit to the oral sex than being penetrated anally. So, the lube may help the police to get the kid;s to open up (definitely no pun intended) more about what happened.

The other thing that comes into play here is I 'believe" that the possible punishment for oral sex w/a 15-year old is much less severe (not severe at all) than if the kids were of a younger age. So, the lube again comes into play in showing he likely did more and will certainly help if younger kids come forward saying he had anal sex with them.

But I am talking from an investigate point of view in a country where the police would work hard to build as much of a case they could against this type of person when they were facing relatively minor charges as I "believe" is the case here with the Thai laws as it relates to consensual sex with a 15-year old.

As for smiling in your passport ... the law, at least in the USA, is that you just have to have a Natural Expression. I had mine taken a few years ago and was smiling but not showing teeth like this guy. His looks like it was made for a business card and he may very well sent a marketing photo to them when he applied for his passport. I believe the laws very by country but I have never seen teeth before in a passport photo. The whole idea of not having a big smile, from what I understand, is for the facial recognition software to work better as smiling distorts certain areas of the face and eyes measured during such a scan.

[MaiDong]

One less scumbag to contend with.

Now, I'm not into making insinuations, especially with regards to situations like this story, but don't you think you should have chosen your words more carefully?

I am of course joking, but seriously...

[Murat]

I think it makes no sense to go on discussing with you, I am not interested and I have a life beyond internet forums. So keep on watching Fox TV and have fun in the old people s home. BTW In Austria it takes more than passing some "law classes" to be able to practice as a lawyer, I had to study 5 years then at the university, get my Dr. degree, work at the court and practice in a law firm for another 5 years. After another exame I was allowed to have my own office and I am qualified to represent clients in the whole EU .

You have not engaged in any discussion but have instead made statements that you can not substantiate with any examples. Not one case. You have been given several opportunities and yet you continue to attempt to make your case by stating that you are a qualified lawyer. You may have articled for 5 years, but it seems that you have no litigation experience. Your approach is not indicative of somone with any international or criminal law experience. For you not to grasp the basic principles of evidence in respect to the requirement for an Austrian representative of the police or prosecutors's office to verify the evidence and ensure that it is reliable speaks volumes. That is the procedure. Your 5 years at a university in order to obtain a JD diploma in the law does not make you an expert in criminal or international law. Nor does having done the clerking for senior members for an additional 5 years. Whoopdeedoo. My first diploma was a B.Sc. and it sure didn't qualify me as an expert in infectious diseases. Optometrists and Chiropracters call themselves doctors too, but these are not true doctorates requiring research, teaching and a thesis. The JD is not the equivalent of a true doctorate, which is why someone with an LLM has higher standing at a convocation than someone with a JD. Go and and convince someone that doesn't have a the academic experience ok?

It's great that you can work in the EU. That's what the rules say. However, you still haven't dealt with the one issue that you contested and that is to provide the case references to the prosecution of Austrian nationals for child sex tourism. Instead you offered misleading information. As a self proclaimed lawyer, surely you know that if you did that in court it would be grounds for disbarment and you would be filing real estate deeds for the rest of your life. By any chance are you actually a paralegal and have had a Walter Minty moment and declared yourself a lawyer?

BTW, I do not watch FOX, I am not an American citizen, and I am nowhere near being in a seniors residence. I am most probably younger than you with your 25 years international and criminal law career. Now off you go to make believe land.

Thank god, it seems that a member of the Austrian government is a reader of this forum and finally the government has "got off its arse". There are reports in some newspapers about this case and the speaker of the foreign ministry gave a press conference. He stated that Mr. H (in Austria we do not mention the full name when talking about a suspect) got bailed out on Monday but police kept his passport. He will have to appear at the court in Pattaya again in January. The speaker, Dr. Peter Launsky-Tieffenthal, stated...quite bluntly...that Mr. H would face a trial in Vienna , even if he could bribe out his way from the trial in Thailand. Even if Mr. H. can make it to Austria without a trial he will be expected by police at the airport. The speaker did not admit that the government had had no idea what to do before reading the enlightening posts of Mr. G (sorry I could not resist but let s bury the hadget now and get serious. OK?). The story can be read on www.oe24.at , if you click on "Chronik/Kärnten" you get to the story..pictures included. This guy is a well off business man who runs an own real estate company. I doubt that he won t have a trial in P. due to the obvious evidence, but if he really comes back to Austria I will report about his trial.

[Afronaught]

After a fine or a short jail term..the rock spider would be back webbing...

Not if I and other members of the Online Comunity have anything to say, or do about it.

As Edmund Burk said: All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

So if you want to do something, stand up and be counted and let these Slime-balls know that Expats living In Thailand and Thai Nationals will not stand for Child Pornography, Child Abuse and Pedophilia. If he does get away with a slap on the wrist in Thailand, perhaps letting his local community and Employer know what he's been up to.

Edited January 10, 2011 by metisdead
15) Not to use ThaiVisa.com to post any material which is knowingly or can be reasonably construed as false, inaccurate, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise in violation of any law.

[Murat]

Just read in an Austrian newspaper that Thai police has dropped the case against Mr.H and stopped investigations due to lack of evidence. The Austrian embassy was informed about this yesterday. The report consisted just of 3-4 sentences , no details were mentioined..............

[softgeorge]

Porn, including child porn, is not illegal to possesses. It is illegal to sell, distribute and probably purchase and display in public but it is NOT illegal to posses.

I am pretty certain you are WRONG about the child porn (I think it IS illegal to possess) but I am unclear on the legal age porn. In any case, I wouldn't trust either you or me on this unless we get an authoritative opinion from a Thai lawyer. If I am wrong, good call from you, but again, are you a Thai lawyer? (I didn't think so.)

On your other points, we will have to agree to disagree. You have made it clear that you don't believe or trust my observations of reading the expat press here for many years now in regard to the homophobic ways in which both the local police and local press deal with homosexuals and gay sex related new stories. Fine, but I can't imagine why anyone would make up a pattern of reports of lubrication confiscation specifically from gay men or when male to male sex acts are involved in the case. That would be really bizarre. As I have said repeatedly, my comments aren't about this one case, but a long pervasive pattern. Due to your clear lack of respect for my credibility, I don't think we have anything more to discuss.

It's definately ilegal to possess in Australia.

[Nisa]

Porn, including child porn, is not illegal to possesses. It is illegal to sell, distribute and probably purchase and display in public but it is NOT illegal to posses.

I am pretty certain you are WRONG about the child porn (I think it IS illegal to possess) but I am unclear on the legal age porn. In any case, I wouldn't trust either you or me on this unless we get an authoritative opinion from a Thai lawyer. If I am wrong, good call from you, but again, are you a Thai lawyer? (I didn't think so.)

On your other points, we will have to agree to disagree. You have made it clear that you don't believe or trust my observations of reading the expat press here for many years now in regard to the homophobic ways in which both the local police and local press deal with homosexuals and gay sex related new stories. Fine, but I can't imagine why anyone would make up a pattern of reports of lubrication confiscation specifically from gay men or when male to male sex acts are involved in the case. That would be really bizarre. As I have said repeatedly, my comments aren't about this one case, but a long pervasive pattern. Due to your clear lack of respect for my credibility, I don't think we have anything more to discuss.

It's definately ilegal to possess in Australia.

There are several laws in Thailand dealing with pornography, although no law specifically addresses child pornography ... http://www.ilo.org/public/english/region/asro/bangkok/child/trafficking/downloads/thailand.pdf

Pornography laws in Thailand prohibit all types of pornography. Production, distribution and possession with an intention to show to the public are criminalized. However, possession for personal use is not illegal. ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pornography_by_region#Thailand

[Nisa]

Just read in an Austrian newspaper that Thai police has dropped the case against Mr.H and stopped investigations due to lack of evidence. The Austrian embassy was informed about this yesterday. The report consisted just of 3-4 sentences , no details were mentioined..............

Which newspaper? Any link available? I find this incredibly hard to believe based on his being literally caught with his pants down as well as the charges being "dropped' so quickly even if there was some sort of pay off and the boys recanted what they said as well as the police recanting what they saw.

[globalmenace]

All this talk about lubricants reminds me of a story I read about a similar case many years ago. I was going to Photoshop the image and put insert the smiling face of one of my travelling buddies, change a few details in the text, and send it to all his friends, employer, local paper, etc. He didn't think that was a very funny idea.

Oh, found it...note the choice of lube.

Elderly Brit caught naked in bed with 12-year-old boy

Police took photos, confiscated Crisco as evidence

Philip Vivian Thompson from Trehafod in the UK, who had just turned 62 on May 3 this year, was caught naked in bed with a 12-year-old boy.

UK national Philip Thompson was caught naked in bed with a 12-year-old boy.

Thompson's neighbours had reported to police that they suspected Thompson of sexually abusing minors, as they often saw young boys being brought to his house.

Pattaya's tourist police, led by Pol. Maj. Noradech Klomtuksing, staked out Thompson's house, and on May 30 they observed an older Thai male delivering a young boy. As soon as reinforcements arrived, they raided the house.

When police burst inside, officers immediately started photographing the activities as evidence. At the time, Thompson was allegedly sodomizing the young boy. Thompson allegedly then began running in circles, looking for a place to hide.

The boy later told police how he was persuaded by an older Thai male to go see the foreigner, and he was told to do as the foreigner instructed. He said the man told him the foreigner would pay him well afterwards.

The boy said the foreigner told him to shower and then instructed him to the bed where the foreigner began applying the greasy substance. The boy said he didn't resist because he feared the large man and was unsure what to expect.

Thompson was charged with sexually molesting a minor under the age of 15. The photos and the can of Crisco were recorded as evidence, along with the statements from the 12-year old boy. Thompson was later transferred to the Banglamung police station for further disposition.

Barry Kenyon, local correspondent for the British Embassy, told Pattaya Mail, "Lawyers acting for Mr Thompson obtained bail for him at Banglamung police station last Thursday (May 31). The matter is now in the hands of the public prosecutor."