Cbr 250 Vs Ninja 250

[taichiplanet]

Honda have pushed fuel economy with their EFI introduction to Thailand (and other countries?), so looking forward to see how much power is released in the CBR250 by reprogramming. Fuel economy is not a big deal for me either, a pity they don't have a Eco/Sports button you can press on EFI bikes to choose what mode you wanna ride in.

That vid in the Motorcycle-USA comparison of the CBR wobble is an aberration. The idiot doing the testing obviously stomped hard on the rear brake peddle to try and get the rear wheel to lock up and start a slide, like he did with the Ninjette. Dooooh! That's right the CBR has ABS and stops wheel lock up! What an absolute dick that guy is. To then warn people off buying the ABS option because of his stupidity is, well, stupid!

From the World Honda website:

"Electronically Controlled Combined ABS allows riders to apply precise rear-wheel braking with the foot pedal. Application of the rear brake does not result in immediate front brake activation unless rear-wheel lockup is sensed, allowing an experienced rider to use the rear brake like a traditional non-linked unit during spirited riding such as track days for outstanding speed, suspension and steering control."

http://world.honda.c...cturebook/eCBS/

Calling the vid an aberration and the tester a dick is a bit over the top IMO.

I think it's good to show people the ABS is not the holy grail of that will magically save you in every situation.

Plus, the video would seem to put into question Honda's claim that the linked ABS allows "an experienced rider to use the rear brake like a traditional non-linked unit during spirited riding such as track days for outstanding speed, suspension and steering control."

Point being, new riders and riders who are new to linked ABS should still practice emergency braking and braking in corners to learn how this bike handles because this linked brake system affects the handling of the bike differently than traditional unlinked brakes.

Ride On!

Tony

Over the top! I was being kind. The guy has s_hit for brains! I was talking about one part of the CBR video where he purposefully tried to lock up the rear wheel in a corner with a bike equipped with ABS! The guy is a dope! He had to stomp hard to get the bike to do that! So you are saying it is normal for bike riders to use the rear brake hard (whether non-ABS or ABS)?! IMO you're just being argumentative!

Agree that ABS is not a magic fix but for most riders in it is a huge advantage, especially for panic situations. It is important for anyone on any bike to regularly practise emergency stops; in a safe environment of course.

[Gippy]

Ah, thanks for the clarification.

But actually, I have no idea what the price of the CBR250 is here in Thailand...

I know the Kawasaki Ninja 250R costs exactly 147,500 Thai Baht, but I don't know what the Honda CBR 250 costs... Do you?

The dealer I asked today quoted me 115k for standard (bargained down from 120k), 130k for ABS but actually said the price might be different on the day I came to collect the bike, maybe more, maybe less, what a c*&k up.

If anyone knows a dealer in Bangkok selling for closer to 100k for the standard please let us know, my money is ready and waiting for a silver one!

[BigBikeBKK]

Honda have pushed fuel economy with their EFI introduction to Thailand (and other countries?), so looking forward to see how much power is released in the CBR250 by reprogramming. Fuel economy is not a big deal for me either, a pity they don't have a Eco/Sports button you can press on EFI bikes to choose what mode you wanna ride in.

That vid in the Motorcycle-USA comparison of the CBR wobble is an aberration. The idiot doing the testing obviously stomped hard on the rear brake peddle to try and get the rear wheel to lock up and start a slide, like he did with the Ninjette. Dooooh! That's right the CBR has ABS and stops wheel lock up! What an absolute dick that guy is. To then warn people off buying the ABS option because of his stupidity is, well, stupid!

From the World Honda website:

"Electronically Controlled Combined ABS allows riders to apply precise rear-wheel braking with the foot pedal. Application of the rear brake does not result in immediate front brake activation unless rear-wheel lockup is sensed, allowing an experienced rider to use the rear brake like a traditional non-linked unit during spirited riding such as track days for outstanding speed, suspension and steering control."

http://world.honda.c...cturebook/eCBS/

Calling the vid an aberration and the tester a dick is a bit over the top IMO.

I think it's good to show people the ABS is not the holy grail of that will magically save you in every situation.

Plus, the video would seem to put into question Honda's claim that the linked ABS allows "an experienced rider to use the rear brake like a traditional non-linked unit during spirited riding such as track days for outstanding speed, suspension and steering control."

Point being, new riders and riders who are new to linked ABS should still practice emergency braking and braking in corners to learn how this bike handles because this linked brake system affects the handling of the bike differently than traditional unlinked brakes.

Ride On!

Tony

Over the top! I was being kind. The guy has s_hit for brains! I was talking about one part of the CBR video where he purposefully tried to lock up the rear wheel in a corner with a bike equipped with ABS! The guy is a dope! He had to stomp hard to get the bike to do that! So you are saying it is normal for bike riders to use the rear brake hard (whether non-ABS or ABS)?! IMO you're just being argumentative!

Argumentative? Me?!

[taichiplanet]

OMG!!!! So it was you in the video!!!

[BigBikeBKK]

OMG!!!! So it was you in the video!!!

BUSTED!!!

[dave_boo]

Honda have pushed fuel economy with their EFI introduction to Thailand (and other countries?), so looking forward to see how much power is released in the CBR250 by reprogramming. Fuel economy is not a big deal for me either, a pity they don't have a Eco/Sports button you can press on EFI bikes to choose what mode you wanna ride in.

That vid in the Motorcycle-USA comparison of the CBR wobble is an aberration. The idiot doing the testing obviously stomped hard on the rear brake peddle to try and get the rear wheel to lock up and start a slide, like he did with the Ninjette. Dooooh! That's right the CBR has ABS and stops wheel lock up! What an absolute dick that guy is. To then warn people off buying the ABS option because of his stupidity is, well, stupid!

From the World Honda website:

"Electronically Controlled Combined ABS allows riders to apply precise rear-wheel braking with the foot pedal. Application of the rear brake does not result in immediate front brake activation unless rear-wheel lockup is sensed, allowing an experienced rider to use the rear brake like a traditional non-linked unit during spirited riding such as track days for outstanding speed, suspension and steering control."

http://world.honda.c...cturebook/eCBS/

Calling the vid an aberration and the tester a dick is a bit over the top IMO.

I think it's good to show people the ABS is not the holy grail of that will magically save you in every situation.

Plus, the video would seem to put into question Honda's claim that the linked ABS allows "an experienced rider to use the rear brake like a traditional non-linked unit during spirited riding such as track days for outstanding speed, suspension and steering control."

Point being, new riders and riders who are new to linked ABS should still practice emergency braking and braking in corners to learn how this bike handles because this linked brake system affects the handling of the bike differently than traditional unlinked brakes.

Ride On!

Tony

I highly doubt that many are going to attempt to use their rear brake when banked over? I highly doubt there are many riding 250 cc bikes that aren't gripping with both knees and not really able to utilise the rear brake....

[dave_boo]

While you may have a beef with the guy who wrote the article, don't forget that this review was done by FOUR riders, not 1.

Also, don't forget that the Ninja 250R sold in the US is carb'd while the Ninja 250R sold in Thailand is Fuel Injected. The EFI Ninjette has much better fuel economy.

I also seem to recall the the EFI Ninja does a bit better on the dyno and is a bit faster than the carbed version?

Ride On!

Tony

And headlined (with picture!) by a single writer. It seems that the majority of the bad reviews were by the guy whos name was right below the headline though..

I had already covered in a previous post that the Thai version of Ninja had essentially the same milage from what we've seen as the CBR 250.

Actually from looking at the other forums the EFI (even after power commander upgrade) puts out less power than the carb'd version after the needle kit and exhaust.

[BigBikeBKK]

Honda have pushed fuel economy with their EFI introduction to Thailand (and other countries?), so looking forward to see how much power is released in the CBR250 by reprogramming. Fuel economy is not a big deal for me either, a pity they don't have a Eco/Sports button you can press on EFI bikes to choose what mode you wanna ride in.

That vid in the Motorcycle-USA comparison of the CBR wobble is an aberration. The idiot doing the testing obviously stomped hard on the rear brake peddle to try and get the rear wheel to lock up and start a slide, like he did with the Ninjette. Dooooh! That's right the CBR has ABS and stops wheel lock up! What an absolute dick that guy is. To then warn people off buying the ABS option because of his stupidity is, well, stupid!

From the World Honda website:

"Electronically Controlled Combined ABS allows riders to apply precise rear-wheel braking with the foot pedal. Application of the rear brake does not result in immediate front brake activation unless rear-wheel lockup is sensed, allowing an experienced rider to use the rear brake like a traditional non-linked unit during spirited riding such as track days for outstanding speed, suspension and steering control."

http://world.honda.c...cturebook/eCBS/

Calling the vid an aberration and the tester a dick is a bit over the top IMO.

I think it's good to show people the ABS is not the holy grail of that will magically save you in every situation.

Plus, the video would seem to put into question Honda's claim that the linked ABS allows "an experienced rider to use the rear brake like a traditional non-linked unit during spirited riding such as track days for outstanding speed, suspension and steering control."

Point being, new riders and riders who are new to linked ABS should still practice emergency braking and braking in corners to learn how this bike handles because this linked brake system affects the handling of the bike differently than traditional unlinked brakes.

Ride On!

Tony

I highly doubt that many are going to attempt to use their rear brake when banked over? I highly doubt there are many riding 250 cc bikes that aren't gripping with both knees and not really able to utilise the rear brake....

Huh? Do you have any idea what you're talking about? Did you not LEARN anything from your accident?

While ideally you should NOT brake in a turn, there are circumstances that may REQUIRE you to brake in a corner, such as an unavoidable obstacle in the road. If you find yourself in such a situation where you must brake you should use the REAR brake as it will allow you to maintain your line. Hammering on the front brake, as you should know from experience, stands the bike up and sends you off the road.

Not sure what you are trying to say in the second sentence- are you suggesting that holding the tank with your knees prevents you from using the rear brake? That's nonsense Dave...

Ride On!

Tony

[CMX]

1] "While ideally you should NOT brake in a turn, there are circumstances that may REQUIRE you to brake in a corner, such as an unavoidable obstacle in the road. If you find yourself in such a situation where you must brake you should use the REAR brake as it will allow you to maintain your line. Hammering on the front brake ... stands the bike up and sends you off the road.

2] "Not sure what you are trying to say in the second sentence- are you suggesting that holding the tank with your knees prevents you from using the rear brake?" ~ Tony

___________________________________

Italics mine.

1. Of course, paragraph 1 goes to argue in favor of the safety aspect of ABS - and the ABS equipped Honda, as BigBikeBKK has always complimented with regard to that feature.

( I can certainly testify to the disadvantages to using the front brake instead of the rear during a turn.)

2. Yes, I find in my case that that the "knees in" posture seem to turn my toes inward as well; almost pigeon-toed, I find the rear brakes easier to use, if I practice their use all the time so it becomes a knee-jerk reaction:lol:, so to speak.

Edited February 7, 2011 by CMX

[dave_boo]

Huh? Do you have any idea what you're talking about? Did you not LEARN anything from your accident?

While ideally you should NOT brake in a turn, there are circumstances that may REQUIRE you to brake in a corner, such as an unavoidable obstacle in the road. If you find yourself in such a situation where you must brake you should use the REAR brake as it will allow you to maintain your line. Hammering on the front brake, as you should know from experience, stands the bike up and sends you off the road.

Not sure what you are trying to say in the second sentence- are you suggesting that holding the tank with your knees prevents you from using the rear brake? That's nonsense Dave...

Ride On!

Tony

As a n00b, yes I know what I'm talking about (since you're so fond of pointing out that's who this bike is being promoted to). There are definitely times when there's some cow crap that is around a corner, but honestly who's going to HAMMER on the rear brakes even in that situation? A PROFESSIONAL (who will most likely not being on a 250) or someone coming from a dirtbike background (and probably won't be on a 250 either) can work wonders with the rear brake but what of the average 250 rider? And notice that I was coaching my post with verbiage that indicated it was the amount of usage; not the actual usage!

[BigBikeBKK]

Huh? Do you have any idea what you're talking about? Did you not LEARN anything from your accident?

While ideally you should NOT brake in a turn, there are circumstances that may REQUIRE you to brake in a corner, such as an unavoidable obstacle in the road. If you find yourself in such a situation where you must brake you should use the REAR brake as it will allow you to maintain your line. Hammering on the front brake, as you should know from experience, stands the bike up and sends you off the road.

Not sure what you are trying to say in the second sentence- are you suggesting that holding the tank with your knees prevents you from using the rear brake? That's nonsense Dave...

Ride On!

Tony

As a n00b, yes I know what I'm talking about (since you're so fond of pointing out that's who this bike is being promoted to). There are definitely times when there's some cow crap that is around a corner, but honestly who's going to HAMMER on the rear brakes even in that situation? A PROFESSIONAL (who will most likely not being on a 250) or someone coming from a dirtbike background (and probably won't be on a 250 either) can work wonders with the rear brake but what of the average 250 rider? And notice that I was coaching my post with verbiage that indicated it was the amount of usage; not the actual usage!

Dunno mate, stomping on the rear brake in a panic is a very common newb mistake... So I still think it's a good thing that the reviewers pointed out the potential hazard- stomping on the rear brake with linked brakes is going to engage the front brake as well, and in the case of this bike, produces enough nose dive that a couple of the reviewers seemed to think it warranted being mentioned in the review...

[eezergood]

Tony did you manage to get out on the track, or road for that matter, on a new CBR???? if so what are you thoughts?

[taichiplanet]

Another comparison from the USA, this one a bit more balanced. The CBR250 had a slight edge over the Ninjette (carbie version) only because of the its better usability around town, while outta town the Ninjette got the thumbs up. Handling was about the same between the CBR250 and Ninjette, while the Hyosung GT250 was let down in the handling department.

The test also mentions that 'tapping' the CBR250 C-ABS rear pedal makes the front dive noticeably but they can live with that for the advantage ABS gives in the city.

So it comes down to what ride you like.

http://www.motorcycle.com/shoot-outs/2011-250cc-beginner-bike-shootout-90422.html

[JimShortz]

The CBR sounds like a good deal (and I thought I might like to buy one at some point) until you see it "in the flesh". It's clearly built to a budget, and it shows. The Ninja, based on appearance, is in a different class - the two shouldn't even be compared directly as far as I'm concerned. The CBR should have been called a CB; they are ruining the good name of CBRs by pretending that this low cost thumper is a CBR...

If I wanted cheap transport I might deal with the CB®'s ugliness (how many different people designed parts of the fairing?) and buy the it, but if I wanted a nice looking little sports bike then it has to be the Ninja IMHO...

[eezergood]

I think Jim has hit the nail on the nead :jap: all things being equal I buy the Ninjette, BUT at a 30-40% premium for my needs its the CBR and a few weeks on a beach!

[taichiplanet]

I don't think the CBR250 is ugly, but agree the multi layer of the fairings is a a bit weird. It certainly doesn't help that the Thai model accentuates this with different colours. The Ninjette certainly looks sportier.

As i don't have to look at it while i'm riding it, the looks aren't that important to me Well, as long as it is not butt-ugly.

Dropped into the Kwaka dealer in Pattaya today. They had a nice 2010 Red/Black SE Ninjette with only 1,800kms on the clock and wanted 120K, and a Black one with 17,000 for 90k. They only give 3 months warranty on used bikes, and i think 2 years on new ones. The CBR250 has 3 years new.

Knowing it would probably be a pointless exercise, I asked about ABS on the Ninjette and wasn't disappointed. They didn't know. I guess maybe the 2012 model will have a major upgrade.

The Kwaka shop is owned by Mityon who has the Honda dealerships in Pattaya. The Kwaka dealership is closest to me than a dealer that services the CBR. So if i decide to get the CBR250 i will be in the strange position of ordering a CBR250 through Kawasaki!

[GilesPeach]

I have a Ninja 250R with a Akprapovic can on the back, and I love it. It's fine for around town as far as I am concerned, the easier breathing can seems to make the lower-mid range much more responsive too (unless it's all in my imagination).

I am however looking for a CBR250 with a female friend of mine. Neither of us can find a non-abs for less than 120k and the abs for less than 130k in Bangkok. We have rung numerous dealers and it is all the same story.

So the 30k cheaper price tag only seems to apply if you were lucky enough to either have bought from the first shipment of CBRs, live in the right part of Thailand where greedy dealers don't exist (kind of like finding Atlantis?), or are just plain lucky.

I don't care if you know somebody who knows somebody who got one for the RRP sometime in the past, who knows where you can get one NOW at or near the RRP price? We've bene looking for a month and haven't found anything at all.

I remember buying my Kawasaki was a breeze. Walked in, paid the 147k (without lots of hidden 'extras'), and rode out the door. Whenever I need a service, I just ring up and make a booking. They let me know how long the job will take and thus when I can pick up my bike, Last service took an hour and 15 minutes. In a land where so many little things can be head-ache inducing, working with Kawasaki Rama 9 has been pure bliss.

[Issanman]

Cycle World magazine just did a comparison of the US versions of both bikes in the April 2011 issue. Although they do like the Ninja a lot, they gave the overall edge to the Honda. They especially liked the user friendly torque curve and handling of the Honda. I personally think the Ninja has a definite edge in the looks department, but would probably go with the Honda based on what I read in their comparison test and the lower price of the Honda. In the past, I have always picked Kawasakis over Hondas when actually buying.

[skybluestu]

Cycle World magazine just did a comparison of the US versions of both bikes in the April 2011 issue. Although they do like the Ninja a lot, they gave the overall edge to the Honda. They especially liked the user friendly torque curve and handling of the Honda. I personally think the Ninja has a definite edge in the looks department, but would probably go with the Honda based on what I read in their comparison test and the lower price of the Honda. In the past, I have always picked Kawasakis over Hondas when actually buying.

I've read three comparisons now and the only one which gave it to the Ninja was sponsored by Kawasaki

[BigBikeBKK]

Cycle World magazine just did a comparison of the US versions of both bikes in the April 2011 issue. Although they do like the Ninja a lot, they gave the overall edge to the Honda. They especially liked the user friendly torque curve and handling of the Honda. I personally think the Ninja has a definite edge in the looks department, but would probably go with the Honda based on what I read in their comparison test and the lower price of the Honda. In the past, I have always picked Kawasakis over Hondas when actually buying.

I've read three comparisons now and the only one which gave it to the Ninja was sponsored by Kawasaki

Don't forget that the US reviews are of the carb'd Ninja 250R vs the FI CBR 250. If/when Kawasaki upgrades the fueling of the US Ninjette I think team green will re-take the lead. But at th end of the day, they are both good bikes, just depends what kind of riding you like to do. Of course here in Thailand, the price difference (if you can find a CBR at the recommended Honda price) gives the new CBR a BIG advantage over the more expensive Ninjette.

[dave_boo]

Cycle World magazine just did a comparison of the US versions of both bikes in the April 2011 issue. Although they do like the Ninja a lot, they gave the overall edge to the Honda. They especially liked the user friendly torque curve and handling of the Honda. I personally think the Ninja has a definite edge in the looks department, but would probably go with the Honda based on what I read in their comparison test and the lower price of the Honda. In the past, I have always picked Kawasakis over Hondas when actually buying.

I've read three comparisons now and the only one which gave it to the Ninja was sponsored by Kawasaki

Don't forget that the US reviews are of the carb'd Ninja 250R vs the FI CBR 250. If/when Kawasaki upgrades the fueling of the US Ninjette I think team green will re-take the lead. But at th end of the day, they are both good bikes, just depends what kind of riding you like to do. Of course here in Thailand, the price difference (if you can find a CBR at the recommended Honda price) gives the new CBR a BIG advantage over the more expensive Ninjette.

And yet the numbers posted from the Japanese site kinda backed up my predictions...unless you're saying that Japan has carbed versions also?

Also, recalling previous conversations with you, the local racers even convert their Ninjas to carbed versions, don't they? If FI offers such an advantage, why would they do that? And if this post is to be believed the FI Ninja offers all of 1,2 PS (about 1 HP) over the carbed version...what difference is that going to make? On second glance I notice that the American version has a higher peak torque and thus falls off faster, it would seem that the FI Ninja has a flatter torque spread across the range and that's about it.

Not to beat a dead horse but the price difference is pretty big also. Even if you can't get a CBR 250R for less than 120k, that's either 771 litres of gasahol 95 (which translates into 18 483 km according to my last milage figuring on the Ninjette) or more than enough to get a pipe (possibly even an imported real Yoshi or the like) and Juice box/Power Commander when they come out. Even the ABS version will leave you with enough left over to get a local pipe and a fuel injection commander.

[appropriate]

Not to beat a dead horse but the price difference is pretty big also. Even if you can't get a CBR 250R for less than 120k, that's either 771 litres of gasahol 95 (which translates into 18 483 km according to my last milage figuring on the Ninjette) or more than enough to get a pipe (possibly even an imported real Yoshi or the like) and Juice box/Power Commander when they come out. Even the ABS version will leave you with enough left over to get a local pipe and a fuel injection commander.

Indeed.

Mine cost more than 37k thb less than the list price on the ninja. That's including a HJC Helmet and 12 month platinum package and of course all reg. ins tax etc. It's currently having it's 6km service (and deep clean as part of the platinum package) with SumetHonda. With their American manager it's great to have a Westerner to sort everything out and take care of everything. Great to have that in an official dealership in Bangkok.

When I feel the right after-market system has been released I'll change the pipe, filter and ECU in one. The 37k should cover that very nicely indeed.

I consider the entire package pretty unbeatable, certainly when compared to the ninja.

[skybluestu]

Cycle World magazine just did a comparison of the US versions of both bikes in the April 2011 issue. Although they do like the Ninja a lot, they gave the overall edge to the Honda. They especially liked the user friendly torque curve and handling of the Honda. I personally think the Ninja has a definite edge in the looks department, but would probably go with the Honda based on what I read in their comparison test and the lower price of the Honda. In the past, I have always picked Kawasakis over Hondas when actually buying.

http://www.cycleworld.com/motorcycle_roadtest/comparison_tests_articles/11q1/kawasaki_ninja_250r_vs._honda_cbr250r_-_comparison_test

[JonnyF]

Cycle World magazine just did a comparison of the US versions of both bikes in the April 2011 issue. Although they do like the Ninja a lot, they gave the overall edge to the Honda. They especially liked the user friendly torque curve and handling of the Honda. I personally think the Ninja has a definite edge in the looks department, but would probably go with the Honda based on what I read in their comparison test and the lower price of the Honda. In the past, I have always picked Kawasakis over Hondas when actually buying.

I've read three comparisons now and the only one which gave it to the Ninja was sponsored by Kawasaki

Very few of the big publications independent. Normally their reviews are based on which manufacturer pays them the most advertising dollars. Just because a magazine isn't owned by Honda, doesn't mean it isn't "owned" by Honda.

Thought this was common knowledge? This is a global bike with massive investment (much of it in advertising) from the largest bike manufacturer in the world - what do you think the magazines are going to say?

Same reason the 4 strokes were suddenly so "superior" to the 2 strokes in all the major Motocross publications back in 2004, despite them blowing valves all the time, having lower power to weight ratio, being heavier, more expensive and needing twice the capacity to compete with the smokers. Why? That's what the biggest hitting manufacturers were pushing. And the sheeple lapped it up.

Just wait (not long now!) until your favourite 250 riders are riding thumpers - they'll be the best design known to man! Better than the 2 strokes, even better than the inline 4's! Bike devolution led by Honda's profit margin. Let's all get behind it

[jackcorbett]

Very few of the big publications independent. Normally their reviews are based on which manufacturer pays them the most advertising dollars. Just because a magazine isn't owned by Honda, doesn't mean it isn't "owned" by Honda.

Thought this was common knowledge? This is a global bike with massive investment (much of it in advertising) from the largest bike manufacturer in the world - what do you think the magazines are going to say?

Same reason the 4 strokes were suddenly so "superior" to the 2 strokes in all the major Motocross publications back in 2004, despite them blowing valves all the time, having lower power to weight ratio, being heavier, more expensive and needing twice the capacity to compete with the smokers. Why? That's what the biggest hitting manufacturers were pushing. And the sheeple lapped it up.

Just wait (not long now!) until your favourite 250 riders are riding thumpers - they'll be the best design known to man! Better than the 2 strokes, even better than the inline 4's! Bike devolution led by Honda's profit margin. Let's all get behind it

I agree with you entirely. Same goes for computer magazines---Think H.P. or Dell really makes the best computers gives the best service--not in my experience. And if you read "Consumer Reports" which has no advertising in you will find H.P. and Dell at the bottom when it comes to reliability. Think Microsoft Word is the best word processing software? Wordperfect has it beat hands down. But H.P. and Dell are a couple of the biggest advertisers in the computer magazines and so is Microcrap.

Edited March 8, 2011 by jackcorbett

[dave_boo]

http://www.cycleworl...comparison_test

Rather odd figures they have there. The fact that the 0-60 times have the CBR 0,8 seconds behind and yet cuts Kawi's lead down to 0,53 seconds is not what the numbers would seem to indicate. That means that the CBR is actually gaining on the Ninja. Are these numbers going to apply to Thai version CBRs?

I am of a mind that they won't. For instance check out this dyno:

Look at the torque and HP figures from the Cycle World test; according to them the (carb'd US) Ninja makes more torque and essentially the same HP as the FI Thai version (0,8 ft-lb and 0,17 HP less according to my figuring). And the American Honda supposedly makes 2.55 HP more and 2.2 ft-lb LESS than the Thai version! And look where peak HP on the above graph is; for the CBR it's approximately 1400 RPM lower than where the American verison peaks at (and the FI Ninja peaks 900 higher than the carb'd version).

Makes me wonder if there's a different cam and/or ECU (or even gearing) for the US....

Very few of the big publications independent. Normally their reviews are based on which manufacturer pays them the most advertising dollars. Just because a magazine isn't owned by Honda, doesn't mean it isn't "owned" by Honda.

Thought this was common knowledge? This is a global bike with massive investment (much of it in advertising) from the largest bike manufacturer in the world - what do you think the magazines are going to say?

Same reason the 4 strokes were suddenly so "superior" to the 2 strokes in all the major Motocross publications back in 2004, despite them blowing valves all the time, having lower power to weight ratio, being heavier, more expensive and needing twice the capacity to compete with the smokers. Why? That's what the biggest hitting manufacturers were pushing. And the sheeple lapped it up.

Just wait (not long now!) until your favourite 250 riders are riding thumpers - they'll be the best design known to man! Better than the 2 strokes, even better than the inline 4's! Bike devolution led by Honda's profit margin. Let's all get behind it

I'm sure that's the real reason that objective metrics have the 'race' so close....I'll agree with you that subjective comments such as "frolicsome little motorcycle with cool styling" and "elicting more toothy grins" or "might be the best two-wheel thing" should be ignored, comments like "you can cruise at 3500 RPM in top cog" (try that on your Ninja) and "not only does it keep up...it actually ekes away from it corner by corner" are simply items that can not be brushed off as sheeple fodder...

And btw, if the 2x displacement four strokes consumed the same amount of fuel and had much better torque across the board what was wrong with running them against the smaller 2T?

[JonnyF]

I'm sure that's the real reason that objective metrics have the 'race' so close....I'll agree with you that subjective comments such as "frolicsome little motorcycle with cool styling" and "elicting more toothy grins" or "might be the best two-wheel thing" should be ignored, comments like "you can cruise at 3500 RPM in top cog" (try that on your Ninja) and "not only does it keep up...it actually ekes away from it corner by corner" are simply items that can not be brushed off as sheeple fodder...

And btw, if the 2x displacement four strokes consumed the same amount of fuel and had much better torque across the board what was wrong with running them against the smaller 2T?

I really don't get the obsession with cruising in top gear at 3500 RPM. It's a sportsbike not a diesel van, why would I want to cruise "corner by corner" at 3500 RPM when I have 6 gears and a redline way above 10k RPM?

btw, motorbike racing is classed by cc (250 class, 500 class etc), not fuel consumption and torque curves - you don't see a "36 kpl" class do you. The problem was that the manufacturers were giving an unfair advantage (double the cc) to the more expensive "latest technology" bikes that they wanted to push to the consumers and the bike publications predictably backed them up with their reviews at the time. Not so off topic when you compare the new CBR250 vs the old one i.e. producing an inferior bike and then trying to pass it off as the latest and greatest technology (with the help of bike reviews using meaningless phrases like the ones you quoted above).

[eezergood]

Was there ever a "shootout" here in Thailand?? BIRA etc......?

[BigBikeBKK]

Was there ever a "shootout" here in Thailand?? BIRA etc......?

At the last Pirelli Track Day at BIRA and the last track day at Bonanza Circuit there were plenty of Ninja 250R's but not a single Honda CBR 250...

[eezergood]

Somebody must wanna get it onto the track!