Will Advice

[giddyup]

5 minutes ago, BlackJack said:

No sir

you made assertions and now please advise all the other readers what you think happens during the legal process to make an application to the courts

 

I've said it probably involves 10 minutes work by an actual lawyer, prove me wrong.

[BlackJack]

your posts dont make sense?

"register a Will at the court" what does this mean

 

[giddyup]

5 minutes ago, BlackJack said:

your posts dont make sense?

"register a Will at the court" what does this mean

 

Read "file for probate".

[BlackJack]

OK - just for you

make a Will in Thai and English = 5K = include a photo copy of assets = includes translation and checking of contact details of Testator, Beneficiaries, Next of Kin, proofreading from Testator and staff, assets photocopied and translated, reading and signing and witnessed by 2 paralegals = 10 mins??? 

 

Application to the court for Grant of Probate. 

1. get a lawyer as you can't do it

2. lawyer needs to write a Plaint outlining to the court why a date should be given and to hear what case

3. a court date is given

4. lawyer and translator and executor have to go to court

5. Executor gives testimony

6. The judge looks over the above = up to 30 days

7. after Executor is awarded a Grant then there are 15 days in which they can resign or be challenged 

8. after this then executor must advertise that probate is happening and challenges creditors can come forward and claim

9. approx 6 months down the line properties can be sold, bank accounts closed, things sold

10. In between there are the lawyers, judges, beneficiaries, family being kept up to date.

 

This may be correct if there is a Will - if no Will or invalid Will or if Executor resigns or is in another country then more POA, and docs and court.

 

Sir, if you don't know what you are talking about, don't say it as its misleading - 30K is cheap and impossible.

[BlackJack]

8 minutes ago, giddyup said:

Read "file for probate".

you don't know - who to file with and how - see other mail

 

[giddyup]

6 minutes ago, BlackJack said:

OK - just for you

make a Will in Thai and English = 5K = include a photo copy of assets = includes translation and checking of contact details of Testator, Beneficiaries, Next of Kin, proofreading from Testator and staff, assets photocopied and translated, reading and signing and witnessed by 2 paralegals = 10 mins???

 

Sir, if you don't know what you are talking about, don't say it as its misleading - 30K is cheap and impossible.

Like I said, I can avoid all this unnecessary expense by just converting my two bank accounts to joint accounts. that way the greedy lawyers get zilch. BTW, how is 30K both cheap and impossible, doesn't make any sense. 

[BlackJack]

 

 

1

Just now, giddyup said:

Like I said, I can avoid all this unnecessary expense by just converting my two bank accounts to joint accounts. that way the greedy lawyers get zilch. BTW, how is 30K both cheap and impossible, doesn't make any sense.

sir - as you don't know what you're talking about - your advice to others in shaky at best - and should be removed

 

 

 

[BlackJack]

19 hours ago, giddyup said:

Went to a lawyer today and was quoted 5000 baht which I thought reasonable, but the lawyer said that it would still require an attendance in court by a lawyer after my death to administer the will, cost 30,000 baht. I said forget it, 30,000 baht for 10 minutes work, get real. It seems the whole will thing is a huge scam designed to fleece falangs as much as possible. Even the initial cost to make a will is a try on, with costs varying wildly from 5,000 to 20,000 baht, whatever the punter can bear.

 

15 hours ago, giddyup said:

All I know is that I have discounted any thoughts of making out a will using a Thai lawyer. I will convert both bank accounts to joint accounts so that my partner has no problem accessing money from the accounts. From what I see, a lawyer is more expensive in Thailand than they are in Australia, and I refuse to pay their exorbitant fees.

this is nonsense as the Public Trustee charges more than this

[giddyup]

Are you saying that I can't convert my bank accounts to joint accounts and avoid all lawyers fees?

[BlackJack]

Just now, giddyup said:

Are you saying that I can't convert my bank accounts to joint accounts and avoid all lawyers fees?

sir, you can do what you want but stop posting nonsense and then ducking and weaving like an amateur boxer as you are clearly out of your pay grade - 

[giddyup]

Just now, BlackJack said:

sir, you can do what you want but stop posting nonsense and then ducking and weaving like an amateur boxer as you are clearly out of your pay grade - 

Well, someone is avoiding answering my question. Anyway, my problem has been solved, already been to my bank to confirm that converting to joint accounts gives my partner full access to the money, now and when I'm deceased, so no need to waste money on a lawyer. Subject closed as far as I'm concerned.

[BlackJack]

sir this forum is about Will advise and not banking advice

maybe theres a forum to suit your business

 

[BlackJack]

7 minutes ago, giddyup said:

Well, someone is avoiding answering my question. Anyway, my problem has been solved, already been to my bank to confirm that converting to joint accounts gives my partner full access to the money, now and when I'm deceased, so no need to waste money on a lawyer. Subject closed as far as I'm concerned.

now wifey has access to your bank accounts = OMB = I rest my case

 

[giddyup]

Just now, BlackJack said:

now wifey has access to your bank accounts = OMB = I rest my case

 

She has had access to one account for 9 years, never touched a penny.  Don't judge all Thai women on your experience with hookers.

[BritManToo]

4 minutes ago, giddyup said:

She has had access to one account for 9 years, never touched a penny.  Don't judge all Thai women on your experience with hookers.

One pal's Thai wife was trustworthy with his accounts and money for nearly 10 years.

But then he got sick with cancer and started spending lots of money on hospital bills.

One day his account was suddenly empty ......... guess she thought what was left was hers.

 

My Brit wife was totally trustworthy (in my mind) for nearly 30 years, then suddenly almost everything I had ever owned or earned was unexpectedly hers.

 

Never judge any woman until the game's over and the results are in.

[giddyup]

Just now, BritManToo said:

One pals Thai wife was trustworthy with his accounts and money for nearly 10 years.

But then he got sick with cancer and started spending lots of money on hospital bills.

One day his account was suddenly empty ......... guess she thought what was left was hers.

I trust her 100%, she's an absolute trooper who has stood by me through thick and thin, but keep quoting what has happened to others, makes for interesting reading.

[BlackJack]

1 hour ago, giddyup said:

She has had access to one account for 9 years, never touched a penny.  Don't judge all Thai women on your experience with hookers.

I just love the way these bar stool lawyers dont stick to the subject

and then resort to slagging someone off

 

anyway for those interested if you do a small costing on the steps needed to get the Will and Probate you will see costs are fair

 

[Laughing Gravy]

I would like to ask a few questions to those who have the experience, knowledge or skills.

 

Without giving my life story which is very interesting to me, I would like to pose some questions.

 

I use to live and work in Thailand for 16 years. I am married to a Thai national and now live in China, although we will eventually move back to work and live.

 

I agree that a will is essential for everyone's sake. We have a condo in my name, which eventually, I would like to pass on to a family member in the UK. Firstly can this be done?

 

Secondly we will buy a house in Thailand (obviously in my wife's name) but how can I ensure, that if she dies before me, I won't be kicked out or a family member, tries to take ownership? I am still young, in my 50s but want to be prepared of any eventuality.

 

Thirdly, my pensions and investments will go to my wife, so that is no problem. Is there anything I need to complete from a Thai perspective. These are from overseas, so should have no interference from Thai law.

 

I have no dependents so its quite straight forward. My biggest concern would be number 2.  I want to give my body to science, which can be done here, as my wife's mother did it. I was happy to be burnt and the bones go to the dogs, but that wasn't received very well, so I need to ensure that this is also planned.

 

I appreciate anyone views and opinions. Hopefully, I will have a long time left on this planet in this form, but I want to prevent any misconceptions and undue stress for loved ones.

 

[BlackJack]

27 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

I would like to ask a few questions to those who have the experience, knowledge or skills.

 

Without giving my life story which is very interesting to me, I would like to pose some questions.

 

I use to live and work in Thailand for 16 years. I am married to a Thai national and now live in China, although we will eventually move back to work and live.

 

I agree that a will is essential for everyone's sake. We have a condo in my name, which eventually, I would like to pass on to a family member in the UK. Firstly can this be done?

 

Secondly we will buy a house in Thailand (obviously in my wife's name) but how can I ensure, that if she dies before me, I won't be kicked out or a family member, tries to take ownership? I am still young, in my 50s but want to be prepared of any eventuality.

 

Thirdly, my pensions and investments will go to my wife, so that is no problem. Is there anything I need to complete from a Thai perspective. These are from overseas, so should have no interference from Thai law.

 

I have no dependents so its quite straight forward. My biggest concern would be number 2.  I want to give my body to science, which can be done here, as my wife's mother did it. I was happy to be burnt and the bones go to the dogs, but that wasn't received very well, so I need to ensure that this is also planned.

 

I appreciate anyone views and opinions. Hopefully, I will have a long time left on this planet in this form, but I want to prevent any misconceptions and undue stress for loved ones.

 

for the benefit of everyone I offer this info

Under the condo act sec.19 if you Will the condo to a person that is non resident or without visa they have to sell the condo within 12 months - however a few cases have been run to challenge that as when the money was brought in to buy the condo the TT3 becomes an asset that can be Willed to a Beneficiary. However the Land Office has its own rules and even with a Grant of Probate and Court Order they do not have to transfer.

The house there are a few options - her land your house, company set up and share holders, share transfer agreement, lease of 30 years, no an issue under current laws, also mrs makes a Will.

 

Age has little to do with dying as there are a 1000 ways to die.

 

Overseas pensions are a nightmare even when you mrs is listed as the primary beneficiary. If you die they want loads of paperwork, death certificates translated and certified by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, and a few more things.

 

Body = the Red Cross has a form for that.

 

The cremation and funeral is not for you. It is for the Thai people to send the spirit away. When in Thailand do the right thing.

 

The Will = in Thai and English, dont name your mate or the mrs as the Executor as the Executor and the Will has to go to court to be approved by the Judge. Get a professional Executor.

 

Also when the time comes and the UK HM Tribunal will want to see whats in the Thailand pie as they will add this to the UK assets (if any) and possible tax it. Therefore the Will should read Thailand assets only and that it revokes only Thai Wills and Codicils. Not Worldwide.

 

Good luck to you all and make a Will as its cheaper than losing your shirt in legal battle fields.

[Laughing Gravy]

16 hours ago, BlackJack said:

for the benefit of everyone I offer this info

Under the condo act sec.19 if you Will the condo to a person that is non resident or without visa they have to sell the condo within 12 months - however a few cases have been run to challenge that as when the money was brought in to buy the condo the TT3 becomes an asset that can be Willed to a Beneficiary. However the Land Office has its own rules and even with a Grant of Probate and Court Order they do not have to transfer.

The house there are a few options - her land your house, company set up and share holders, share transfer agreement, lease of 30 years, no an issue under current laws, also mrs makes a Will.

 

Age has little to do with dying as there are a 1000 ways to die.

 

Overseas pensions are a nightmare even when you mrs is listed as the primary beneficiary. If you die they want loads of paperwork, death certificates translated and certified by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, and a few more things.

 

Body = the Red Cross has a form for that.

 

The cremation and funeral is not for you. It is for the Thai people to send the spirit away. When in Thailand do the right thing.

 

The Will = in Thai and English, dont name your mate or the mrs as the Executor as the Executor and the Will has to go to court to be approved by the Judge. Get a professional Executor.

 

Also when the time comes and the UK HM Tribunal will want to see whats in the Thailand pie as they will add this to the UK assets (if any) and possible tax it. Therefore the Will should read Thailand assets only and that it revokes only Thai Wills and Codicils. Not Worldwide.

 

Good luck to you all and make a Will as its cheaper than losing your shirt in legal battle fields.

Thank you very much for your informative post. it is appreciated even in your distinctive style.

[fhickson]

possible to transfer assets to your home country and list your beneficiary there with contact info?

 

thats what i would do, but depends on where your from i suppose.

 

in the usa you can list a beneficiary on investment accounts and it goes straight to them over a will or probate (as long as its not challenged).

[fhickson]

On 5/29/2019 at 10:37 AM, giddyup said:

I trust her 100%, she's an absolute trooper who has stood by me through thick and thin, but keep quoting what has happened to others, makes for interesting reading.

its not always a scam, it can be necessity.

 

many here have never been poor. when you need money you use whats available. thats real life.

[Banana7]

Can anyone recommend up to 3 reliable trustworthy law firms in the Pattaya area for a foreigner's Will? They need to prepare a simple, (1 or 2 beneficiaries) legal, easily enforceable Last Will and testament, be the executor of the Will, including probate, and distribute the Thai assets as stated in the Will.

[Kerryd]

On 1/1/2020 at 4:41 PM, Banana7 said:

Can anyone recommend up to 3 reliable trustworthy law firms in the Pattaya area for a foreigner's Will? They need to prepare a simple, (1 or 2 beneficiaries) legal, easily enforceable Last Will and testament, be the executor of the Will, including probate, and distribute the Thai assets as stated in the Will.

I have only dealt with one firm, DMC Inter Law, located just behind Tukcom in South Pattaya. (http://www.pattayasolicitors.com/)
My father did his (Thai) Will with them when he moved here. After his death, they did the necessary work to probate the Will, went to Court with me (and provided a translator) and finalized the paperwork needed so I could close out Dad's accounts and (legally) dispose of his assets.

In dad's case, they charged 10,000 for the Will and a flat rate of 100,000 for the Probate. In some cases the fee is a percentage of the estimated value of the estate (I'm guess when it comes to situations where property or commercial assets are involved).

Normally it is the Executor's responsibility to distribute the assets. Not sure if DMC Law (or any other firm) would (or even if they could) be an "Executor". Might be a potential conflict of interest. You'd have to discuss that with them. 

2 things to note.
1. A Will in Thailand is not (easily) enforceable in any other country and visa-versa, especially if someone also has a Will in that other country. So if you have assets "back home" you would need to have a Will there as well - and someone to process it. The Executor could be the same person (if they are willing).

In my case, dad had a Will in Canada as well. I was the sole Beneficiary and Executor in both. I processed his Will in Thailand and a few months later I was able to make a trip back to Canada and start the process there as well. Fortunately, once I handed everything over to the lawyers, they were able to do the rest without me being there (including going to Court). When it was all said and done, they mailed me the package with all the relevant paperwork so I could do the land transfer and close out his bank accounts (after I had arranged to return the excess pension payments of course).

2. In Thailand - you have to wait for 45 days after someone has died before you can Probate the Will. I believe this is to allow relatives and any possible creditors time to find out about the death and to file any claims they may have against the Estate. Doesn't matter if you are the Executor and sole Beneficiary (wouldn't be the first time someone tried to snake an Estate out from under other relatives or people owed money by the deceased).

For the Thai Will, we arranged a court date during my next vacation so it ended up being almost 3 months after he died before we did the Probate. Took a couple more weeks after that for the paperwork to make it's way through the system.

Even in Canada, they couldn't Probate the Will for at least 6 weeks after I'd gone to the lawyers, even though dad had been gone for many months by then. Have to give time for people to find out about it, just in case.

A little late with the response (just saw the topic this morning while searching for something else) - hope it helps !

[topt]

On 1/1/2020 at 4:41 PM, Banana7 said:

Can anyone recommend up to 3 reliable trustworthy law firms in the Pattaya area for a foreigner's Will? They need to prepare a simple, (1 or 2 beneficiaries) legal, easily enforceable Last Will and testament, be the executor of the Will, including probate, and distribute the Thai assets as stated in the Will.

You could also try Thai Euro Law which gets recs for notarial services regularly and I have used for something else. Not overly cheap and last year from memory quoted 10k to prepare a will and 50k for probate when I queried a while ago. Filipino wife of the Thai lawyer speaks perfect English. 

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/794938-i-need-a-cheap-notary-public-recommendation-in-pattaya/page/3/

 

[bert bloggs]

On 3/1/2011 at 4:01 PM, Langsuan Man said:

If you don't want the Thai government to get your assets then don't let a Thai lawyer get them either

Get an English simple will translated from one of the translating companies you see here at Thai Visa

Go to the Amphur in Bamlamung and have them process and register it for you

You will need 1. copy of your Passport (Face page and Visa) 2. A medical certificate available for 100-150 THB from any clinic 3. Original and copy of the Thai and English Will 4. You will need two Thai witnesses (the girls at the Amphur will be most happy to be your witnesses (don't forget to tip) 5. Take your girl so she can show them her Thai ID card 6. 20 THB baht to pay for it all

They will witness everything, place the information in their registry book, and will seal the envelope containing the Will in an envelope, place it into storage, and will give you a receipt

Using a lawyer is fraught with danger since they will not register the Will until you are dead and then how do you know that what you wrote is what was registered

This way you maintain control through the whole process. The only caveat is that in case of any dispute the Thai version of the Will will take precedence

BTW. I did the above process less than a year ago and the requirements I cited are directly from the Banglamung Amphur

Who do you trust the most, a lawyer or yourself ? This is one time where the DYI route is the best and safest way to go

is this still the way? and ok for the wife? its only regarding my Thai bank account ,as or British ones are joint and she owns the house,car etc etc.

 

[jor]

20 hours ago, bert bloggs said:

is this still the way? and ok for the wife? its only regarding my Thai bank account ,as or British ones are joint and she owns the house,car etc etc.

 

Bert,

 

I wish I could have seen your post and the quote from Langsuan earlier.

 

Wednesday last week, I took my will in English and Thai to the Banglamung Amphur to get it registered.  I took a Thai lady with me to help and translate.

 

The guy on the Amphur reception was completely scornful, telling her that I would need to get all sorts of paperwork including going to Bangkok to get a letter from the UK embassy and I should instead go to a lawyer.  The Thai lady accepted everything he said and I wasn't in a position to argue.

 

We then went to the Thai lady's lawyer who charged me B2,000 to stamp and sign the will.  The lawyer wanted to keep the will and act as executor.  I share Langsuan's scepticism and didn't want to do this so have retained the will.

 

I should still like to get the will registered to make procedures as smooth as possible for my Thai executor so maybe I will print out Langsuan's post, in English and Thai, and return to the Amphur.  But, before I do that, any updated advice would be welcome from TV members.

 

[topt]

On 9/7/2020 at 12:56 PM, jor said:

 

We then went to the Thai lady's lawyer who charged me B2,000 to stamp and sign the will.

What is this supposed to do exactly?

 

Also note that the post you are referring to is from 2011 - things may have changed and if not probably the staff.

[BlackJack]

It would be prudent to now make a Will, gay, straight, married, single, other as there is no common law to cover your partner - 

[BlackJack]

On 9/7/2020 at 12:56 PM, jor said:

Bert,

 

I wish I could have seen your post and the quote from Langsuan earlier.

 

Wednesday last week, I took my will in English and Thai to the Banglamung Amphur to get it registered.  I took a Thai lady with me to help and translate.

 

The guy on the Amphur reception was completely scornful, telling her that I would need to get all sorts of paperwork including going to Bangkok to get a letter from the UK embassy and I should instead go to a lawyer.  The Thai lady accepted everything he said and I wasn't in a position to argue.

 

We then went to the Thai lady's lawyer who charged me B2,000 to stamp and sign the will.  The lawyer wanted to keep the will and act as executor.  I share Langsuan's scepticism and didn't want to do this so have retained the will.

 

I should still like to get the will registered to make procedures as smooth as possible for my Thai executor so maybe I will print out Langsuan's post, in English and Thai, and return to the Amphur.  But, before I do that, any updated advice would be welcome from TV members.

 

Even a properly bona fide Will has to go to court and so you need a lawyer to act for the Executor. You cant just go to court! Stamp and sign the WIll is just to say you signed it and you look like your picture ( this is called a Notary)  - this is 1000 baht

 

A Will can be contested and so dont think that because its signed and registered (not necessary anymore) that it will not. It is a right and when the court hears testimony from the Executor the jusdge may also hear challenges. It could go on for years if the Will is not prepared properly - its cheap and I cannot understand why people try to cut corners. 

There is so much paperwork and signatures and if you have no experience in these matters then you may lose everything.