Building Up The Level Of A Block Of Land

[haveaniceday]

We are looking for some land to build on, I am after advise or ideas on building up a block of land 2-3 metres, I am being concious of flooding and avoiding very low laying areas.

After saying that, I want to have good drainage and minimise the annoyances of local flooding and wet soggy ground. I want to build up higher than the street level and the neighbours.

If all to hard, then we will not buy land that need to be filled. The real question is, and I need help with, how long to let it settle? In Thailand how do they compact the soil or fill?

Are there any techniques, we can use so we don't have to wait a year or 2 like I have been told form non building friends.

Anyone remember how much roughly in Thailand to fill up 1 Rai (1600 m2) 2-3 metres.

Where we are looking at, doesn't appears to be any quarries around.

Thanks.

[gotlost]

Cost per truck load is going to very depending on your location. Cost can be between 250 baht to 2500 baht per 5 meter load. Friend of mine did 3.6 rai at 1,200 trucks at 550 per load.

[transam]

They build it up and normally leave for 2/3 years for the rainy seasons to compact it. Of course some don't but then they can expect settlement cracks on a build.

[gotlost]

For got to say my original post is for the Sansi area of Chiang Mai where fill can go between 350 and 600 per truck. That 2500 per load is BKK.

[p_brownstone]

You will need a Backhoe or something similar simply to spread the earth fill when is is tipped from the delivery Truck.

Hire the heaviest one around and make sure the Driver uses it frequently - between deliveries - to compact the fill by driving over it repeatedly.

I suggest you do not use stone etc., not only will that not compact easily using the Backhoe but you will have problems when you start building, trying to drive Piles through that stone layer; plus when you come to try to plant trees after you build the roots will have trouble penetrating the stone layer and they will never thrive.

Patrick

[gotlost]

BTW price that I'm quoting include tractor work for spreading and compacting. Don't pay extra.

[bunta71]

Compaction of soil CAN be done effectively here in Thailand. They have many types of compactors. There are two components to this; Type of soil and moisture content. Soils engineers can identify problems with particular soils available and advise you on that. Moisture content should be around 14% and the engineers have tools/ machines to test this. Generally the dirt being hauled in will be spread out in layers,then compacted to about 95% then another layer (called a "lift") can then be spread out and compacted. These folks telling you to just place the dirt and wait a couple years are full of it. Depending on the depth and "looseness" and type of soil, waiting 15 years before enough natural settling can occur if ever. Do it correctly and your house will not have cracks every foot apart throughout the house such as the one I am now renting. If your soil is too wet in can be compacted with a sheepsfoot vibrating compaction drum roller. If not a smmooth drum will work. If you want this done correctly get someone professional to help. Another tip...if you can find an excavation nearby with suitable soil the contractor hauling the material away may be happy to bring you the dirt cost free. They do this or have to find a place to dump what they have excavated and sometimes have to pay to dump it. Again, this looks simple yet if not done correctly can be a big costly headache. Welcome to the dirt business. Retired Operating Engineer

Edited March 8, 2011 by bunta71

[craigt3365]

How about we move this over to the Real Estate Forum?

[PattayaParent]

As Bunta said the ground can be compacted with a heavy roller (think road construction) but you will obviously pay extra for that.

The effectiveness will also depend on the bearing capacity of the existing ground which should be well rolled before starting to fill.

Another factor is the type and depth of foundations / piling you will use and the overall size and weight of the house.

So you will need a soil engineer to do the calcs for you. He will be able to calculate the settlement over time and allow for a surcharge of the soil so that it will settle to the final level you want.

[jimbeam1]

As Bunta said the ground can be compacted with a heavy roller (think road construction) but you will obviously pay extra for that.

The effectiveness will also depend on the bearing capacity of the existing ground which should be well rolled before starting to fill.

Another factor is the type and depth of foundations / piling you will use and the overall size and weight of the house.

So you will need a soil engineer to do the calcs for you. He will be able to calculate the settlement over time and allow for a surcharge of the soil so that it will settle to the final level you want.

[jimbeam1]

I am no building expert. When I had a house built in Korat, we w done the compacting bit, I think it was left about 18 months

to 2 years. During and after completion of the house, we still got massive holes appear around the sides of the house, after heavy rain.

It may be just my opinion, but I would forget the compacting (which I think is to expensive anyway) and instead go for piling by way of fabricating concrete pillars, then form concrete joists and infill with concrete blocks, as is I would Imagine the way they do it on the first floor (Thailand second floor?)

jb1

[kwonitoy]

When I filled my house plot I was told to let it sit at least a year or disaster would strike.

I put 400 trucks into a plot 50x50m, local dirt or laterite as its somewhere's called, 250baht per load including a tractor to level it out. Took them two days and they did a very nice job of it. We did the infill in Feb. and started construction in April of the same year. The house is now 6 years old and is as stable as the day it went up,no cracking or settleing. The house is built on footings that go below the infill so if your going to do that also it makes no difference to how long it sits or compaction. The local dirt in Issan that they dig out of the paddy field does compact with rain so if your going to pour a pad on top let it sit a year. If you build a house with deeper foundations go for it.

I've built oilfield installations all over the world for 3o+ years and we don't wait for the dirt to age before we build.

[cheeryble]

I'm considering building on a ricefield which needs some filling.

What i think i'll do is just fill 40% and not to a metre perhaps just 40 or 50cm (not near river just small irrigation klongs).

The house will be raised on concrete stilts to stop flood ingress. The stilts will be, or will be on,

piles or whatever is a solid foundation under the ricefield.

I'd love to get more info on this. Friction pilings were mentioned elsewhere. Is this practicable for a modestly sized economical house?)

A big pond will be dug, further reducing the need for dirt. In fact I'm considering have 2m high long earth mounds, grown over with vegetation, instead of walls.

The point being, bury the piles first before you fill the earth. Save time.

Raised legs save money for dirt. Ricefield around the house looks good.

[swissie]

Well, if the cost of doing the landfill equals the price of the land that was paid originally, one must wonder ! Nevermind ! I would like to share a building codex that can be applied all over the world when a "soft-land" situaton exists.

Along the Amazon-River in Brazil houses are built on stilts. (I had the pleasure to visit the area several times, especially around the city of Belem). This is "soft-land". believe me! (As the water level of the Amazon rises and falls acording to the season and has done so for the last 1000 years).

The Remedy: The foundation of the "stilts" reach down to at least 3 meters. Then: Solid concrete footing, at least 1 square meter per stilt. If a part of the usual 4 stilts starts to sag over the years (maybe 5 millimeters per year), the building itself is usually light enough so that a common backhoe can lift the "sagging part" of the building to allow the insertion of a metal plate to compensate for the "saggage".

The point: Why not apply those proven rules in Thailand (only appliccable for "stilt-architecture", of course). Everything else would have to be looked at within "landfill-adventures". (see above).

PS: The thaught alone, that a "Thai-Ground-Engineer", that otherwise works at the nearest 7/11 as a cashier, will be the deciding factor as to the calculation of any landfill-operations sends a shiver down my spine.

Cheers.

[trogers]

Well, if the cost of doing the landfill equals the price of the land that was paid originally, one must wonder ! Nevermind ! I would like to share a building codex that can be applied all over the world when a "soft-land" situaton exists.

Along the Amazon-River in Brazil houses are built on stilts. (I had the pleasure to visit the area several times, especially around the city of Belem). This is "soft-land". believe me! (As the water level of the Amazon rises and falls acording to the season and has done so for the last 1000 years).

The Remedy: The foundation of the "stilts" reach down to at least 3 meters. Then: Solid concrete footing, at least 1 square meter per stilt. If a part of the usual 4 stilts starts to sag over the years (maybe 5 millimeters per year), the building itself is usually light enough so that a common backhoe can lift the "sagging part" of the building to allow the insertion of a metal plate to compensate for the "saggage".

The point: Why not apply those proven rules in Thailand (only appliccable for "stilt-architecture", of course). Everything else would have to be looked at within "landfill-adventures". (see above).

PS: The thaught alone, that a "Thai-Ground-Engineer", that otherwise works at the nearest 7/11 as a cashier, will be the deciding factor as to the calculation of any landfill-operations sends a shiver down my spine.

Cheers.

Ah...the Great Amazon. Let's get back to Thailand. How do we correct a sagged garage for the SUV that is built on stilts?

[PattayaParent]

I'm considering building on a ricefield which needs some filling.

What i think i'll do is just fill 40% and not to a metre perhaps just 40 or 50cm (not near river just small irrigation klongs).

The house will be raised on concrete stilts to stop flood ingress. The stilts will be, or will be on,

piles or whatever is a solid foundation under the ricefield.

I'd love to get more info on this. Friction pilings were mentioned elsewhere. Is this practicable for a modestly sized economical house?)

A big pond will be dug, further reducing the need for dirt. In fact I'm considering have 2m high long earth mounds, grown over with vegetation, instead of walls.

The point being, bury the piles first before you fill the earth. Save time.

Raised legs save money for dirt. Ricefield around the house looks good.

You find the problem with that is the piles get in the way of the backfilling and as the piles need to protrude out of the finished level anyway it's much quicker to fill and then pile.

[cheeryble]

You find the problem with that is the piles get in the way of the backfilling and as the piles need to protrude out of the finished level anyway it's much quicker to fill and then pile.

Fair enough thankyou.

So does piling mean I have to get one of those hammer towers (what are they called?) brought in?

Prices anyone for pilings for a small concrete based house?

[PattayaParent]

You find the problem with that is the piles get in the way of the backfilling and as the piles need to protrude out of the finished level anyway it's much quicker to fill and then pile.

Fair enough thankyou.

So does piling mean I have to get one of those hammer towers (what are they called?) brought in?

Prices anyone for pilings for a small concrete based house?

Yes, and they're called piling rigs.

Sorry can't help you on the price, it will normally depend on how long the piles are though.

[haveaniceday]

Thanks for the input on this thread, been helpful.

I have been advised by a friend to think about that option of piles. Do you think I would need a piling rig, or good enough for a holes to get drilled down that go a couple of feet into the original soil, then filled with cement?

Edited March 11, 2011 by haveaniceday

[LennyW]

Thanks for the input on this thread, been helpful.

I have been advised by a friend to think about that option of piles. Do you think I would need a piling rig, or good enough for a holes to get drilled down that go a couple of feet into the original soil, then filled with cement?

You can do drilled - or slipform piles here, small truck arrives with big drill bit attached, drill down till reaches hard ground, removes the drill and inserts a slipform sleeve (big steel pipe), place rebar column inside pipe, fill with concrete and remove slipform sleeve, repeat for all required columns.

A lot cheaper and quicker than getting in a piling rig and driving in piles, and more than adequate for a house.

[haveaniceday]

Thanks Lenny