Meltdown Likely Under Way At Japan Nuclear Reactor

[elcent]

Something most don't lnow about Japan. Relax! for a while ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGEpg9V41Qg

... and if you are still to concerned about the situation on Japan now

REMEMBER! THE QUESTION IS NOT LONGER IF BUT WHEN ...

I will post a finding shortly that wasn't considered yet.

[Gaccha]

Speedi radiation levels are reported in nGy/h (nanoGray per hour), to confuse matters even more

1 Gray = 1 Sievert. 1000 nGy = 1 μSv

Highest level I saw on that post was Horiguchi, 1240 nGy/h. So in units we are now used to that is equivalent to 1.24μSv/h or 0.001mSv/h, just a little elevated over background radiation.

Crucially, the figures are not up for the Fukushima plant. The two relevant figures are 'under survey'. The Horiguchi is there to monitor the Tokai No2 plant station.

[Jdietz]

There's certainly a lot going on at the moment, but don't forget that during all the mayhem and problems, the reactor cores at Daiichi #1, #2 and #3 have been cooling now for almost 5 days.

Not as effectively though as when they would have been fully submerged and fresh water pumped continuously, but still they are cooling.

Even -if- they eventually melt, it will most likely end up as a puddle of metal on the bottom of the steel reactor vat. By design the 10cm thick steel will absorb the rest-heat and cool it further until it solidifies again.

My biggest worry at this time is the basically unshielded open storage pools at #4, that contain fuel that was taken out of the reactor core for maintenance, and they seem to have lost cooling there.

[webfact]

CNN: Workers at Japan's damaged nuclear power plant have returned after being evacuated, Tokyo Electric Power Company says.

[Jdietz]

Oh, and can we please keep this thread on-topic, being the current situation in Japan? If you want to discuss nuclear politics, start another thread.

[Chopperboy]

What is 'spent' nuclear fuel?

If it is 'spent', how is it still so dangerous?

My two cents on this would be... spent is the term used in the industry to mean when particular fuel rods can no longer be used to produce energy in a reactor...for whatever reason...

But even once they're removed from a reactor, they have a pretty long radiation life thereafter.... Hence the big problem with how to store and dispose of these highly radioactive materials after they're not longer used in a reactor.

It's not like driving a car where when you run out of gas, the engine just quits... More like the Energizer bunny... they keep going and going and going...

AND the spent (used fuel cans) contain a mixture of uranium and plutonium, the latter used in war heads......................but the rods need to be de-canned first in a processing plant...(plutonium DEADLY STUFF)

This type of plutonium is not used in war heads because it doesn't make the weapon work better over lower grade plutonium and its simply too dangerous and difficult to handle.

Edited March 16, 2011 by Chopperboy

[webfact]

one post deleted. Please stay on topic and don't discuss nuclear politics

Thanks

//Admin

[Chopperboy]

One use for spent uranium: can be used to tip warheads, because they're the densest metal - able to pierce tank armor or for 'bunker busters'.

The uranium they use for shells is "depleted uranium" and has a low level of radioactivity.

[webfact]

US Embassy briefing: advice to citizens unchanged, no need to fear radiation in Tokyo /RT @martyn_williams

[WarpSpeed]

Something most don't lnow about Japan. Relax! for a while ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGEpg9V41Qg

... and if you are still to concerned about the situation on Japan now

REMEMBER! THE QUESTION IS NOT LONGER IF BUT WHEN ...

I will post a finding shortly that wasn't considered yet.

What he says at the 15:57 mark is very telling, poignant and applies across the board to ALL self appointed or equally recognized specialists in EVERY field and limits their logical and analytical thinking...

Edited March 16, 2011 by WarpSpeed

[bkkjames]

What he says at the 15:57 mark is very poignant and applies across the board to ALL self appointed or equally recognized specialists in EVERY field and limits their analytical thinking...

Perhaps I missed it - what are you referring to?

[WarpSpeed]

What he says at the 15:57 mark is very poignant and applies across the board to ALL self appointed or equally recognized specialists in EVERY field and limits their analytical thinking...

Perhaps I missed it - what are you referring to?

I realized the thread moved along quite a bit by the time I posted so see edit above..

Edited March 16, 2011 by WarpSpeed

[Chopperboy]

G.E. began making the Mark 1 boiling-water reactors in the 1960s, marketing them as cheaper and easier to build — in part because they used a comparatively smaller and less expensive containment structure.

American regulators began identifying weaknesses very early on.

In 1972, Stephen H. Hanauer, then a safety official with the Atomic Energy Commission, recommended that the Mark 1 system be discontinued because it presented unacceptable safety risks. Among the concerns cited was the smaller containment design, which was more susceptible to explosion and rupture from a buildup in hydrogen — a situation that may have unfolded at the Fukushima Daiichi plant.

Extract from a posted link made earlier - which I think is relevant

[bkkjames]

What he says at the 15:57 mark is very poignant and applies across the board to ALL self appointed or equally recognized specialists in EVERY field and limits their analytical thinking...

Perhaps I missed it - what are you referring to?

I realized the thread moved along quite a bit by the time I posted so see edit above..

well I will watch the whole thing once some of these so call specialists / experts tell me that it is safe to go to sleep and will demonstrate that the nuclear crisis is under control by taking a photo of themselves holding today's newspapers next to Fukushima Plant.

until then - please give my regards to Tom Hanks.

[WarpSpeed]

Eh??? Not sure what you're saying but I share your skepticism and cynicism if only you knew of my families history with Government lies regarding nuclear exposure you'd understand why I'm so intimately familiar and as matter of fact bitter.. They owe us big time...

If this thing gets much more out of control I fear it will not be safe for any of us to sleep for quite some generations.. That is not an overstatement...It's being downplayed...

Edited March 16, 2011 by WarpSpeed

[bkkjames]

anyways - conspiracies make great books and movies - carrying on now...

http://www.facebook.com/pages/USNH-Yokosuka-Ombudsman/131322280222020#!/notes/commander-fleet-activities-yokosuka/a-message-to-american-citizens-from-ambassador-john-v-roos-march-16-2011/10150438198320153

A Message to American Citizens from Ambassador John V. Roos March 16, 2011

by Commander Fleet Activities Yokosuka on Wednesday, 16 March 2011 at 09:41Today our hearts remain with our Japanese friends who, after suffering this

devastating tragedy just four days ago, have to undertake recovery and

reconstruction and address the ongoing nuclear emergency.

We understand that many of you are anxious and have questions in the shadow

of the Fukushima emergency, since we are in the midst of a complex,

constantly changing, and unpredictable situation. In this fluid situation,

our commitment to our citizens is to accumulate accurate information and

assess it sufficiently in order to make important judgments.

Since the first reports of trouble with the reactors, American nuclear

experts have worked around the clock to analyze data, monitor developments,

and provide clear assessments on the potential dangers. While at times we

have had only limited access to information, I am personally committed to

assuring that our experts have as much access and information as possible,

and the necessary resources to understand the situation. I have personally

been deeply engaged in these efforts.

After a careful analysis of data, radiation levels, and damage assessments

of all units at Fukushima, our experts are in agreement with the response

and measures taken by Japanese technicians, including their recommended 20

km radius for evacuation and additional shelter-in-place recommendations out

to 30 km.

Let me also address reports of very low levels of radiation outside the

evacuation area detected by U.S. and Japanese sensitive instrumentation.

This bears very careful monitoring, which we are doing. If we assess that

the radiation poses a threat to public health, we will share that

information and provide relevant guidance immediately.

The United States will continue to work around the clock to provide precise

and up-to-date information supported by expert analysis to ensure the safety

and security of our citizens and to help Japan in its time of great need.

U.S. citizens in need of emergency assistance should send an e-mail to

[email protected] with detailed information about their location

and contact information, and monitor the U.S. Department of State website at

travel.state.gov.

[Crushdepth]

Not a lot of actual *news* around is there?

[bkkjames]

Sorry, I cant make the news for you but I can post something new:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/16/idUSL3E7EG0ER20110316

France urges nationals in Tokyo to leave country or head south

TOKYO, March 16 | Wed Mar 16, 2011 12:40am EDT

TOKYO, March 16 (Reuters) - The French government has urged its nationals living in Tokyo to leave the country or head to southern Japan due to the risk of radiation from an earthquake-crippled nuclear power plant to the north of the capital.

The French embassy in Tokyo said in a statement that its advisory applied with immediate effect to those French nationals who were not obliged to remain in the city.

It added that it had asked Air France to mobilise planes currently in Asia to evacuate French citizens, and two were already on their way.

[bkkjames]

#Japan nuclear authorities say high possibility of meltdown at Fukushima Daiichi No. 1 reactor - Jiji

[Chopperboy]

Just realised James already posted this!!

Both United States and Japanese governments have for decades allowed re-racking of the pools to reduce the originally-designed minimum safe distance between the assemblies so that more rods can be stored in each pool.

Utilities complained they were running out of storage space on site at the reactors. The problem is if the spent fuel gets too close, they will produce a fission reaction and explode with a force much larger than any fission bomb given the total amount of fuel on the site.

All the fuel in all the reactors and all the storage pools at this site (1760 tons of Uranium per slide #4) would be consumed in such a mega-explosion. In comparison, Fat Man and Little Boy weapons dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki contained less than a hundred pounds each of fissile material.

Extract from an earlier posted link

Edited March 16, 2011 by Chopperboy

[bkkjames]

4:32pm Reporting on Japan's nuclear crisis, Al Jazeera's Harry Fawcett says that "We are told that the temperature of water in which the nuclear rods are kept should be at 40 degrees celsius, it was up to 84 degrees celsius and rising.

"So the situation is far from being cooled down, in fact it is heating up."

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/asia/japans-nuclear-emergency-live-blog#update-12951

not good if this starts to boil and evaporate.

[bkkjames]

RT @SkyNewsBreak: Tokyo Electric Power says highest radiation levels recorded so far in reactor 3 at Fukushima nuclear plant

No additional details on this yet? just popped up.

[bkkjames]

Interesting read despite the source and if you believe it all or not...

http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/27-signs-that-the-nuclear-crisis-in-japan-is-much-worse-than-either-the-mainstream-media-or-the-japanese-government-have-been-telling-us

27 Signs That The Nuclear Crisis In Japan Is Much Worse Than Either The Mainstream Media Or The Japanese Government Have Been Telling Us

How much of a threat is the nuclear crisis in Japan? That question is on the minds of millions of people around the globe tonight. Unfortunately, the Japanese government and the mainstream media have both been doing their best to downplay this crisis. Even though there have been massive explosions at the Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear facility, authorities in Japan have still been very stingy with information and they keep insisting that the situation is under control. But the situation is not under control. In fact, it just seems to get worse with each passing day. Radiation levels are now incredibly high at the Fukushima Dai-ichi complex and the radiation cloud is starting to spread. Radiation levels in Tokyo are already 10 times above normal levels, and there are reports in the international media that some people have begun to flee the city. It is imperative that the Japanese government tell the truth about what is going on because this could potentially affect the health of millions of people. There are over 12 million people in the city of Tokyo alone. If this nuclear crisis continues to get worse it could potentially end up killing more Japanese than the tsunami just did.

Yes, things really are that serious.

We are not just talking about a repeat of Chernobyl.

We are possibly talking about "many Chernobyls".

It is somewhat understandable that the Japanese government and the mainstream media do not want to panic the public, but the reality is that people need the truth about what is going on.

Unfortunately, it is not likely that the Japanese government or the mainstream media are going to "change their stripes" overnight, so in order to try to get an idea of what is really going on we need to look at the clues.

Sometimes it is much more important to watch what people are doing rather than what they are saying.

For example, a significant number of foreign governments are now evacuating personnel from Tokyo.

Why would they be evacuating if there was no threat?

Posted below are 27 signs that the nuclear crisis in Japan is much worse than either the mainstream media or the Japanese government have been telling us. When you take all of these clues and you put them together it really does paint a frightening picture....

#1 Japanese Prime Minister Naoto Kan is urging all people living within 30 kilometers of the Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear facility to stay indoors.

#2 Andre-Claude Lacoste, the head of France's Nuclear Safety Authority, says that the containment vessel surrounding the No. 2 reactor at Japan's Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear complex is "no longer sealed".

#3 Radiation levels in Tokyo are already 10 times above normal levels.

#4 Reuters is reporting that some residents of Tokyo are already starting to flee the city.

#5 Radiation levels in one city north of Tokyo, Utsunomiya, were recently reported to be 33 times above normal levels.

#6 Radiation levels in the city of Saitama have been reported to be 40 times above normal levels.

#7 According to Japanese Prime Minister Naoto Kan, the "possibility of further radioactive leakage is heightening."

#8 The Japanese government is admitting that radiation levels near the Fukushima Dai-ichi complex are very harmful to human health.

#9 According to the World Nuclear Association, exposure to over 100 millisieverts of radiation a year can lead to cancer. At this point the level of radiation being measured right outside the number 4 reactor at the Fukushima Dai-ichi complex is 400 millisieverts per hour.

#10 A U.S. Navy crew that was assisting in relief efforts was exposed to a month’s worth of nuclear radiation in just a single hour.

#11 According to the U.S. Navy, low levels of radiation have been detected at their bases in Yokosuka and Atsugi.

#12 The USS Ronald Reagan recently detected significant levels of radiation 100 miles off the Japanese coast.

#13 The operator of the Fukushima Dai-ichi complex has pulled out 750 of the 800 workers that were working at the facility.

#14 The French embassy in Tokyo is advising French citizens to leave the city.

#15 The German embassy in Tokyo is advising all German citizens to leave the country entirely.

#16 German technology company SAP is evacuating their offices in Tokyo.

#17 Austria has announced that it is moving its embassy from Tokyo to Osaka due to fears about the radiation.

#18 Finland is urging all of their citizens to leave Tokyo.

#19 The Czech military is sending planes to Japan specifically to evacuate the Czech Philharmonic Orchestra.

#20 Air China is canceling many flights to Tokyo.

#21 The Chinese Embassy has announced that it will be evacuating all Chinese citizens from the Miyagi, Fukushima, Ibaraki and Iwate prefectures.

#22 Russia is making preparations to evacuate civilians and military units from the Kuril Islands.

#23 Physicist Frank von Hippel recently told the New York Times the following about this disaster: "It’s way past Three Mile Island already".

#24 The president of France's nuclear safety authority says that this crisis is now almost as bad as Chernobyl was....

"It's clear we are at Level 6, that's to say we're at a level in between what happened at Three Mile Island and Chernobyl."

#25 There have been reports of extremely high radiation at another nuclear facility in Japan. It has been reported that at the Onagawa nuclear plant radiation that is 700 times the normal level was detected at one point.

#26 One anonymous senior nuclear industry executive told The Times Of India that Japanese power industry managers are "basically in a full-scale panic" and that "they don't know what to do".

#27 It is also being reported that there were over 600,000 spent fuel rods stored at the Fukushima Dai-ichi complex. Most of these rods were apparently stored near the top of the 6 reactor buildings. There have already been major explosions at three of those buildings. It is now feared that there is now nothing to prevent many of these spent fuel rods from releasing radiation into the atmosphere. That is really, really bad news.

So is there a threat that nuclear radiation from Japan could reach the United States?

Well, actually everyone agrees that radiation could reach the United States. The controversy is whether or not it will be enough to be harmful to human health.

The Nuclear Regulatory Commission is admitting that it is "quite possible" that nuclear fallout from this disaster could reach the United States. In fact, Nuclear Regulatory Commission spokesman David McIntyre says that there could already be radiation from Japan over America....

Right now it's quite possible that there could be some radiation floating over the United States.

But most government officials in the U.S. are insisting that there is "no threat" to the health of American citizens from this crisis at this point.

So how would nuclear radiation from Japan get transported to the United States?

Well, if radiation released by a damaged nuclear reactor got up into the jet stream, the first major land mass that it would encounter would be North America. In fact, the jet stream commonly takes air from over Japan directly over the west coast of the United States. The following video demonstrates this fact beautifully....

So is there any reason for those of us living in the United States to be concerned?

According to the Japanese government, the U.S. government and the mainstream media there is not.

But do you believe them?

The truth is that they seem much more concerned with keeping the public calm rather than telling the public the truth.

Radiation levels are increasing all over northern and central Japan. People are starting to leave Tokyo and other major cities in the region. Foreign governments are evacuating personnel. Fires continue to erupt at the Fukushima Dai-ichi complex. The authorities in Japan seem to have no idea how to solve this crisis.

If even one of those damaged nuclear reactors fully melts down it is going to be a complete and total nightmare. If you live in an area that could potentially be affected by nuclear radiation from Japan you might want to start figuring out how you and your family are going to handle this crisis.

[bkkjames]

RT @SkyNewsBreak: Tokyo Electric Power says highest radiation levels recorded so far in reactor 3 at Fukushima nuclear plant

No additional details on this yet? just popped up.

from reuters..

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/16/japan-quake-nuclear-radiation-idUSTFD00670020110316?feedType=RSS&feedName=companyNews&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+reuters%2FcompanyNews+%28News+%2F+US+%2F+Company+News%29&utm_content=Google+International

TOKYO, March 16 | Wed Mar 16, 2011 3:53am EDT

TOKYO, March 16 (Reuters) - The operator of Japan's quake-stricken nuclear power complex recorded the site's highest levels of radiation at the No.3 reactor on Wednesday, Tokyo Electric Power Co Ltd said.

Earlier, the company said that this reactor was now its highest priority, but did not explain why radiation levels had climbed in that part of the Fukushima Daiichi complex. (Created by Mark Bendeich)

[Chopperboy]

The amount of cooling required to remove decay heat for the Fukushima reactors types 2 and 3 a few minutes after shutdown would need to have been 5 Mega Watts. One year after shutdown it would still require cooling of around 1.66 Mega Watts.

The decay heat drops off very slowly after about 1 day where the decay power is already below 1% of the operating power of the reactor. After a year the decay power is about 0.1% of the operating power of the reactor.

[Tywais]

Inflammatory and bickering posts removed. If someone wants a holiday just keep it up.

[elcent]

We all know that unit 3 uses mixed fuel rods with 5 - 10% plutonium and therfore it's the most dangerous of the reactors damaged so far. This means a minimum of 5 tons of plutonium.

It was addmitted that the containment-vessel of this reactor is damaged.

I searched for hours for graphic that shows Japan buing built on a mushroom like structure. The reactors are placed(more or less) at the edge. Don't know why I can't find that graphic any longer. Most of the landing pages during my search had the images broken.

So what happens when the meltdown starts and how long does it take to slip through the crust into sea-water? We know it takes less than 24 hours to melt through the containment vessel which is made of stainless steel (layers) and around 20cm thick.

Edited March 16, 2011 by elcent

[Shurup]

Just wondering if it's a problem to transport rods from the storage pools into other Nuke plants that are still functioning and have their cooling systems in the right order? At least if would eliminate some fuel that could release the radiation if the things get worse?

[Chopperboy]

Just wondering if it's a problem to transport rods from the storage pools into other Nuke plants that are still functioning and have their cooling systems in the right order? At least if would eliminate some fuel that could release the radiation if the things get worse?

They can only be transported once they have cooled sufficiently, and then they are moved in flasks which is a major logistic and security operation. Sometimes the flasks are know to leak as well - happened when my cousin worked a sellafield.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_flask

[elcent]

Some of the radiation stuff was found in drinking water according to local authorities. As always, it was described as no health hazard (yet).